The Revenant : suggestions, possible improvements, and overall thoughts

[JohnLemon123]

WARNING; WALL OF TEXT BELOW

Yes, this is the first thing i actually post on these forums.

hey everyone, thanks for stopping by !

before we get started, i think necessary to preface what i assume will be a rather lengthy topic by clarifying a couple things : I'd been hyped about this Warframe ever since his first showcase, way back in devstream 112. everything, from his theme to his overall aesthetics, had me eagerly anticipating his release. The prospect of a warframe themed after the lumbering, laser-spewing terrors of the plains sounded like something that'd be right up my alley, as a personal fan of tanks and flashy explosions. And despite the overall underwhelmed reaction the community had of him, from first look to release, i was determined to enjoy him, mediocre though he (admittedly) was. Cut to a couple months later, and he's now, just over 800 hours into the game, my most used warframe. I've tried every kind of build, used him in every scenario imaginable, and spent countless hours in the simulacrum trying as best i could to optimize his abilities to their fullest. I feel the need to precise this to emphasize this one point : i like this warframe. A lot. And i'd like to think that i (to a certain extent) understand what he does well, what he does poorly, and what he could do better. 

So with that said, let's get right into it. I'll cover every single part of all of his characteristics, including his stats, his passive, his abilities, and what i assume to be his ''role'' in a squad.

First of all, what does revenant do ? what ''is'' he ? what should you expect when picking him ?

Revenant is (from my personal understanding) a hybrid of AOE damage-dealing and damage-negation based tanking. In other words, he's loud, flashy and hard to kill, as befits a warrior based on the eidolons. He also has some CC (although nothing too incredible), and can overall do well in most mission types, especially after his recent changes. he is however not without flaws, suffering from a kit that, at best, interacts awkwardly, and at worst actively works better when all of it's synergies (of which there are quite a few) are ignored. His main selling point (sorry Nyx), enthrall, is far and away the weakest part of his kit, which hurts his capabilities significantly considering how it itself relies on synergies to have any kind of impact. And perhaps more saddening than anything, he lacks personality and identity, beyond the spin-related memes spawned by his 4. this is the only time i'll mention the concept of ''vampire'', and i'll precede it with a ''not a''. The attempts at making what isn't and shouldn't be a vampire just that have hurt the potential of revenant himself AND the possibility of a true vampireframe every existing. 

Now then, what are revenant's biggest problems at current ? (keep in mind that this is mostly based on my own judgement, yours may differ.)

• As stated above, enthrall suffers from an insane reliability on revenant's other tools to be any kind of useful, and simply doesn't pay for itself or warrant using. on top of that, the casting time is way too slow. the friendly fire is for many one of (if not the) biggest downsides of the ability, but it could be seen as a positive if the ability was better. finally, the ''pillars'' scale very poorly.
• Mesmer skin is quite serviceable on it's own, but doesn't do enough to help his other tools, resulting in an effective yet passive ability that could be so much more interesting !
• Reave has, after update 23.10, become a surprisingly effective tool when it comes to dealing damage when coupled with his 1. On top of that, the reduced cost and instant casting make it a great ability for moving around when used while in his 4. it however suffers from the same problem as enthrall, being mostly irrelevant unless used alongside another ability. it's also pretty slow when used without his 4.
• Danse macabre is visually impressive, and does significant damage for a non-modular ability. The ''adaptive'' property gives it some much-needed sentient flair, and helps it scale into the higher levels quite well. And yet, it too suffers from a couple of problems : it's ''set and forget'' nature has seen a couple of really harsh nerfs thrown it's way, without much being done to actively change it's mechanics. as a result, the hydron disco rave lives on, while the ability bleeds energy when used anywhere else. finally, it barely interacts with mesmer skin, and what little it does when used with enthrall either does nothing noticeable to help it,  or actively hurts it !
• His passive is... underwhelming. Mind you, the passive in and of itself isn't too bad, but it just so happens to be attached to a frame that couldn't care less about shields (due to mesmer skin), and is already dead by the time he has to. As a result, it'll never proc, and you'll be dead in seconds if it ever does. 

 

Let's get to the changes then ! Every single one of them will be accompanied by a ''reasoning'' part that explains (as best it can) why such and such is changed. this'll hopefully explicit the thought process behind each and every decision. i should also precise that none of these changes would require new effects or animations.

 

• Stats (health, armor, shields, energy)
  • Health changed to 50 (from 100) at rank 0, and stays at 50 (from 300) at rank 30.
    • Reasoning : revenant is very similar to rhino when it comes to modding, having the luxury to forego survivability mods (to an even greater extent, as rhino still needs armor) thanks to his mesmer skin. On top of that, this change would solidify the following statement : if revenant gets to the point where health is necessary, he should die, as he has plenty of tools to keep himself from getting there in the first place. Finally, this would prevent him from regaining energy through rage and hunter adrenaline, since he will, by way of his new passive (spoilers i guess) be able to acquire it through other means.
  • Armor changed to 5 (from 105) at rank 0, and stays at 5 (from 105) at rank 30
    • Reasoning : mostly the same reasons as above. however, whereas 300 health at rank 30 was somewhat decent, being the standard for most frames, 105 armor is simply not enough to work with, and might as well be comically low, if only to drive home the message discussed above.
  • Shields changed to 300 (from 225) at rank 0, and to 1200 (from 675) at rank 30.
    • Reasoning : eidolons have shields. A lot of them. This change would, if nothing else, solidify revenant as the ''Inaros'' of shields. Now don't worry, i'm not so crazy as to think shields are a viable way to survive. They'll be used the same way harrow uses his, as a currency (or baseline) upon which his passive will depend. on top of that, the increase in max shields will strengthen the synergy between 1 and 4, as a higher shield pool means more overshields to accumulate (which will matter, again, thanks to his new passive). finally, this might just encourage a player to mod for shields, something that is at current quite rare.
  • energy changed to 150 (from 125) at rank 0, and to 225 (from 188) at rank 30
    • Reasoning : revenant spends a lot of time casting abilities (again, from my personal understanding). As such, it'd only make sense for him to have a larger pool of energy to play around with. And although this might not be the most compelling of arguments, the dude is saturated with energy, to the point where it's physically manifested onto him !

 

• Passive, ''retaliation'' : Gone.
  • Reasoning : as explained already, it's not bad in and of itself, but simply doesn't work with the warframe it's on. besides that, it's simply too unreliable to really matter. don't worry though, the effect used for it isn't gone, merely ''relocated''.

 

• New passive, ''sentient reconstruction'' : revenant starts generating energy the moment his shields reach their maximum (does not require the maxing of overshields, only shields). The rate of energy regeneration is based on his current shield count, and the conversion is of 0.001 energy per shield and overshield. this would effectively be equivalent to an ''energy siphon'', translating to a regeneration (at the new base of 1200 shields) of 1.2 energy per second.
  • Reasoning : revenant has a multitude of ways to interact with his shield pool , mostly via his ability to generate overshields and his ability to regain them via reave. He has, however, absolutely no use for them, be it for survival, utility, what have you. this new passive coupled with his higher base shield count would allow him to mitigate, if only slightly (it's still just a passive after all) the unforgiving energy cost that he suffers from. and while said energy costs seem (from my personal understanding) to be a part of his design, every part of his kit should then try and help in either justifying those costs, or in mitigating them.

 

• Enthrall 
  • Default thrall count reduced to 5 (from 7). however, the thrall cap is now increased by modding for strength.
    • Reasoning : thralls are not Nyx's mind control target, nor are they Nekros' shadows. they function like bullets, or mines. they're a ''currency'' that you use to create damage pillars, to recuperate stacks of mesmer skin, and to generate overshields. being able to dictate the number of your thralls would give it some much-needed flexibility, and above all else, more of an identity, the thing it lacks most.
  • casting speed reduced by 30%.
    • Reasoning : by far one of this ability's biggest problems, the casting speed. considering how his kit and it's synergies interact, you'd expect revenant to be able to create thralls quickly, if not efficiently. Sadly, the ability isn't quite quick enough as of right now, and while a slight increase in casting speed wouldn't be the most fundamental of changes, it'd be a good start. This change finds most of it's justification in party play, as you'll often cast enthrall on something, just to see it die at the hands of your team before you were even able to fully convert them.
  • The cap on the thrall ''pillars'' follows the cap on thralls, starting at 5 and being modded via strength.
    • Reasoning : pretty much the same as above. as it stands, enthrall feels like it was designed as revenant's consistent way of dealing damage, with danse macabre serving as the big, flashy burst of destruction you'd use from time to time. however, it currently struggles when it comes to achieving that role, with the limiting cap of 7 feeling unnecessary when you consider their very low base duration of 10 seconds (which is fine). 
  • Thrall ''pillars'' now deal adaptive damage, similarly to danse macabre. these pillars have a chance to deal the status effect the enemy is weakest to, starting at 20% (can be improved by strength), similarly to danse macabre.
    • Reasoning : the damage at low to mid levels is admittedly perfectly serviceable, being decently powerful for most of the content the game has to offer. but then, armor comes in, and it all falls apart. Allowing the ability to ''adapt'' is what allows his 4 to scale in the first place, and his 1 using that same mechanic would help it do much better as well. On top of that, it creates a ''cohesion'' between the two, and gives revenant something he can make his own : adaptation, the trademark of sentients.
  • The projectiles spawned by the pillars deal adaptive damage as well, streamlining his damage-dealing methods. the guaranteed impact proc is gone, replaced by a 20% (can be increased via strength) status chance.
    • Reasoning : mostly the same as for the pillars themselves. And while the CC provided by the impact proc is nice, thralls are, by DE's own words, supposed to provide damage in death, and CC in life.
  • The synergies this ability has with the others will be discussed when we get to those abilities proper, so that's pretty much it for his 1.

 

• Mesmer skin
  • Energy cost increased to 100 (from 50)
    • Reasoning : before you leave, thinking i've lost the plot, please read what's underneath, it'll (hopefully) change your mind. i just thought i'd get the unpleasant stuff out of the way first.
  • Enemies that hit revenant are now enthralled immediately, without the stun or the free cast of 1. enemies enthralled in this manner remain affected for half as long as those converted by using his 1. should you reach your max thrall cap, further damage will be negated without stunning or enthralling whoever attempted to damage you.
    • Reasoning : remember how i said that this ability was too self-centered ? well, here we go. While the high number of restrictions and the increased casting cost might seem overly harsh, you need to consider just how insanely powerful automatically enthralling things really is. but why change it at all then ? well, because it was way too slow, and not worth focusing on. while yes, stunning things is nice, getting a free cast of your 1 was simply not worthwhile, because it is, after all, your cheapest ability. the main idea was to retain it's usefulness as a tanking ability, while making it far more cohesive with the rest of his kit. this change also indirectly buffs it's synergy with his 3, as reaving through allies now means a new thrall and as such, a potential new ''patient zero'' for mass spreading. Finally, this also indirectly buff this ability's synergy with his 4, as using it now won't mean the inability to create more thralls.
  • Upon losing his last charge (meaning that an enemy took it away, recasting the ability yourself or having it be nullified wouldn't count) a wave of energy bursts outwards in a 5 (can be improved by range) meter radius. the effect for this ability would be the effect previously used by his old passive. Enemies caught in this blast are enthralled (if possible), and do not react if you thrall count has been reached. Revenant has a singular (can be modded via duration) second of invulnerability following the loss of said charge.
    • Nezha's rework brought to light one of the most fundamental requirements of any would-be tank whose ability to survive depends on a single power : the necessity for some breathing room. A second isn't a lot, and it's certainly not enough to recast your 2, but it'd allow you to not be pulverized the very moment your 2 goes down. the enthrall ''wave'' would mostly be an extra benefit, as you shouldn't really be throwing yourself into combat to begin with. 

 

• Reave 
  • Both versions : 
    • Reaving through regular enemies now leeches 15% of their health and shields, up from 8%. 
      • Reasoning : reave is really impressive when use in conjunction with enthrall. however, it's just not good enough when used alone. And while two abilities being very effective when used together is great, the ability needs to be useful on it's own, which is simply isn't right now.
  • ''standalone'' version : 
    • casting speed reduced by up to 50% (maybe less, but in this range)
      • Reasoning : reave is incredibly slow, to a depressing extent. And while his 2 is among the slowest abilities in the whole game (which i assume was a conscious design choice), it justifies this extreme casting length through it's respectable power (especially if you consider the changes listed above) and it's overall sustain. a ''dash'' should feel swift, nimble, satisfying ! And no, using natural talent is not the answer. you use that mod if you want to spam his 1 freely, if you want to make his 2 a lot faster, or if you want to spin faster. Not as a way to make an ability usable in the first place. Not to mention that the ability is both way faster (being pretty much instant) and cheaper when used with his 4 !
  • The ability's synergy with mesmer skin was detailed above, refer to it for extra info. apart from that, we're done with his 3.

 

• Danse macabre 
  • General changes :
    • The ability now has a ''world on fire''-like escalating effect : every second, for the next 15 (maybe even more ?) seconds, the energy drain. the boosted energy drain, the status chance, the boosted status chance, the drain and the boosted drain are all increased by 10% of their modded base. as such, if your damage is of 2000, your drain of 7 energy/s and your status chance of 25%, those values will, after 5 seconds, have become the following : the base damage is now of 3000 (2000 plus 200 times 5), the status chance is now of 37.5% (25 plus 2.5 times 5) and the drain is now of 10.5 energy/s (7 plus 0,7 times 5). 
      • Reasoning : this ability has been smitten by the might nerfhammer without much thought (no offense) or change. giving it the same escalating property as ember would allow it to be both reasonable enough for general play, while still preventing it from lighting things up in your local defense mission.
    • status chance of the ''regular'' version is reduced to 15% (from 20%), while that of the ''boosted'' variant is reduced to 30% (from 40%). however, this status chance can now be modded via power strength.
      • Reasoning : giving a player the ability to increase the power's status chance is one of the many ways for it to become less ''set in stone'' and restrained. this'd also increase it's effectiveness at very high level, as it's ability to proc status becomes it's one saving grace when armor and shield values become a bit insane.
  • Regular version :
    • energy drain decreased from 20 energy/s to 15 energy/s
      • Reasoning : with the changes to how this ability functions, becoming more an more powerful (and more expensive) as you maintain it, the energy drain needs to be somewhat less absurd. seeing all of your energy gone in the span of a couple seconds is less than exciting, and while the changes to it's cost were understandable, they ignored the fact that people used it outside of defense missions and in ''real'' content (not that defense isn't real content, it's just a far more ''closed off'' style of mission). hopefully, this change (couple with the escalating cost) will make it more usable while preventing it's abuse in specific missions.
    • Does not destroy the pillars spawned by thralls 
      • Reasoning : the pillars are something you build towards, and a respectably effective damage-dealing tool (even more so with the change listed above). the option to destroy them should be a conscious one, and not something that ''just happens'' as a result of using your 4. As it currently stands, this ''synergy'' is one of the most frustrating aspects of the ability, and needs to be reconsidered.
  • ''Boosted'' version :
    • energy drain decreased to 30 energy/s, from 40 energy/s
      • Reasoning. most of what i used to justify the ''regular'' version's change is also applicable here, but i'd also like to add one thing : 40 energy drain every second is absolutely insane. there is no ability in this entire game that'd warrant such a cost, no matter how devastating.
    • Destroys the pillars spawned by thralls, and refunds a charge of mesmer skin when doing so.
      • Reasoning : activating the boosted variant is a conscious choice, one you make when you really want everything gone. the mesmer skin stack also gives the boosted variant some extra value, as it'd now return some of the energy you spent on making thralls in the form of mesmer stacks.

 

Well, that took a while.

if you read through all that, thank you. i greatly appreciate you taking some time out of your day to read through some guy's paragraphs.

if you skipped the whole thing : hey, how's it going ? i hope you're having a good day !

(TL;DR : make spinnyboi gud pls)