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Beast Dual Stat Mods


Azimbee
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The Beast Dual Stat Mods are pretty weak even if you run all four of them. When I mean Dual Stat, I mean Status+Element mods they added in Fortuna. 60% extra status per mod is pretty weak when the base status chance is 5%.

Can it be an additional flat status chance? Even if you run all four status mods you end up with just above 15% status chance. Why not make it such that the added status chance is flat and it's 10% or something? 45% total status chance for all 4 dual stat mods seems way fairer.

Edited by Azimbee
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When I first picked up one of the new dual stat pet mods in a mission I thought "cool, more options for pet damage" but when I actually looked at the mod later I was more than a little underwhelmed. 60% more damage is nice if you want to sacrifice a slot to give your pet a damage boost, but when compared to the 330% more damage provided by Maul it seems pathetically weak. Kubrows and Kavats benefit very little from the status chance boost, since they have a status chance of 5% and 7.5% respectively. The only pet that it might make sense for is Venari, since its status chance is 30%.

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Imo they should just separate Kubrow damage mods to a weapon of some sort instead of this Warframe-Weapon hybrid they are right now.

Sentinels have 10 Warframe and 8 Weapon
MOAs have 10 Warframe and 8 Weapon

Kubrow is like... what even. 10 slots for precepts, health, and damage. It's only getting crazier now there are "weapon" Dual stat mods.

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Those mods are just not worth it. Having to fit all the required survival and utility mods on a Kubrow or a Kavat leaves almost no space for damage mods.

That is a shame, as I'd love to give my dog a fiery mouth, but what can we do. We'd need a separated beast "weapon" to mod if we want to use those mods.

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it may not massively increase the Status, but....

putting two of them on just like with your Guns at worst triples the Damage the Companion deals, or usually will quintuple or more the Damage.
sooooooo.....

hard to find space for? sure. 
do you get a lot out of them if you do make space for them? not even a question.

Edited by taiiat
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On 2018-11-16 at 12:45 PM, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

While I can’t see good reason to use them on Kavats, the result with Mecha Overdrive on Kubrows can be interesting.

Except Mecha Overdrive is bugged and doesn't work. There is nothing interesting here, yet. Also, the Mecha mod set presently only spreads one stack of the status and not all the stacks. So there's no armor strip here. Or Slash stacking.

Allies killing the marked enemy also does not proc the set bonus. Nothing spreads, and neither does Mecha Pulse grant armor. This set needs actual work on it.

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6 hours ago, Azimbee said:

Except Mecha Overdrive is bugged and doesn't work. There is nothing interesting here, yet. Also, the Mecha mod set presently only spreads one stack of the status and not all the stacks. So there's no armor strip here. Or Slash stacking.

Before I start: Ino, modding for Status Chance isn’t worth until we are able oneshoot the Enemies because there is no place for Proc to be applied.

Console player here, so expect pure theories and questions.

I take Strun wraith with 40% SC and 5 Riven dispo, with SC and MS on Riven + Hell’s Chamber maybe Dual stat Mod I hit and exceed 100% SC, but Stat tab in game shows 100% only. Questions is: Is percentage over 100% and MS (not shotguns only) counted into Mecha Overdrive algorithm?

Tbh, I don’t  clearly understand your Stack description. Slash is DoT, his Proc is Bleed dealing True  Dmg in 7 Ticks per 6 sec, here I see potential of +90% Status Duration where we get another 6 Ticks of Slash + we can, thanks to Beasts DS Mods, use another DoT like Gas.

6 hours ago, Azimbee said:

Allies killing the marked enemy also does not proc the set bonus. Nothing spreads, and neither does Mecha Pulse grant armor. This set needs actual work on it.

Mods are still lack of Description for me, maybe i’m just bad in English. Mods Bonus: Is it works like Rad, so Enemies will get, for example, Slash Proc, which was dealth by killed marked enemy in their range? Mecha Pulse works in which Range: Marked Enemy, Frame or maybe Companions? If it’s not showed on HUD, doesn’t mean it isn’t work, unfortunately only way how to discover it works is using Frames rely on armor like Chroma or Nezha.

 

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21 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Before I start: Ino, modding for Status Chance isn’t worth until we are able oneshoot the Enemies because there is no place for Proc to be applied.

Console player here, so expect pure theories and questions.

I take Strun wraith with 40% SC and 5 Riven dispo, with SC and MS on Riven + Hell’s Chamber maybe Dual stat Mod I hit and exceed 100% SC, but Stat tab in game shows 100% only. Questions is: Is percentage over 100% and MS (not shotguns only) counted into Mecha Overdrive algorithm?

Tbh, I don’t  clearly understand your Stack description. Slash is DoT, his Proc is Bleed dealing True  Dmg in 7 Ticks per 6 sec, here I see potential of +90% Status Duration where we get another 6 Ticks of Slash + we can, thanks to Beasts DS Mods, use another DoT like Gas.

Mods are still lack of Description for me, maybe i’m just bad in English. Mods Bonus: Is it works like Rad, so Enemies will get, for example, Slash Proc, which was dealth by killed marked enemy in their range? Mecha Pulse works in which Range: Marked Enemy, Frame or maybe Companions? If it’s not showed on HUD, doesn’t mean it isn’t work, unfortunately only way how to discover it works is using Frames rely on armor like Chroma or Nezha.

 

I apologize for not being clear. I'll do my best to explain the issues with stacks. You can put more than one Slash proc on an enemy at the same time. For example, if you use a fast fire rate weapon, you can put a second, third, etc. slash proc before the first one runs out. Same thing with Corrosive, except corrosive lasts forever.

Mecha Mod's set bonus will only transfer one of each different status. So if you have 33 corrosive procs, 10 slash procs, 5 gas procs, and 1 radiation (radiation doesn't stack more than once, it just refreshes the duration), then the set bonus will only spread 1 slash proc, 1 corrosive proc, 1 gas proc, and 1 radiation proc. This makes it inherently a really weak set bonus.

Also for the mod Mecha Pulse, you only get armor if you're the one to kill the enemy. An ally killing it doesn't proc the bonus. So if you miss your opportunity and someone kills the marked enemy in a horde, and you never notice the marked enemy because it's somewhere you can't see it, you have to wait for the mark to repoc. You only get a 5 second window to find the enemy before the Mecha Pulse buff ends, and if you miss it, you have to wait 15 seconds at minimum with the full set. It takes even longer if you're not running the full set.

Mecha Overload is also supposed to link 60% status between your primary and kubrow (presumably) but there's no listed change. I don't know if the status duration works either if that aspect also doesn't work.

This means the set is only ever 'reliable' when playing solo. Because your teammates actually work against you with this set. And you're encouraged to work on a team because one of the mods is an Aura that affects the entire party. But, your teammates doing the killing denies you the armor buff. Both Mecha Pulse and Mecha Overload need to be looked into, along with the Set Bonus not working if you're not the one that kills the marked enemy.

Edit: I digress. This thread is about the beast dual stat mods being underwhelming. They work on Venari quite well, but you're missing out on status because Kubrows and Kavats have low base status chance. 60% Multiplicative Status Chance works on weapons because there are weapons with high base status. But no kubrows and kavats aside from venari have high base status chance, so what's the point of spending 4 dual stat mods just to go from 5%/7.5% status to about 15-20%? When beasts already are pressed for space on survivability, precepts, and base damage mods?

Edited by Azimbee
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Adding Toxin Damage to a crit Kavat makes some semblance of sense as well, it gets somewhat better vs Corpus. But that's really all there is to it.

It does let one build Khora's Venari for some gas damage, though.

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5 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Adding Toxin Damage to a crit Kavat makes some semblance of sense as well, it gets somewhat better vs Corpus. But that's really all there is to it.

It does let one build Khora's Venari for some gas damage, though.

I'm not sure how I feel about mods that only work effectively on one beast companion when you can use it on all of them. A beast that can only be used via a Warframe's passive.

Edited by Azimbee
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10 hours ago, Azimbee said:

Mecha Mod's set bonus will only transfer one of each different status. So if you have 33 corrosive procs, 10 slash procs, 5 gas procs, and 1 radiation (radiation doesn't stack more than once, it just refreshes the duration), then the set bonus will only spread 1 slash proc, 1 corrosive proc, 1 gas proc, and 1 radiation proc. This makes it inherently a really weak set bonus.


So it works this way and I thought it’s something like: Marked Nox dealing Toxin Dmg was killed so enemies in his radius will be hit by Toxin Proc.

10 hours ago, Azimbee said:

Also for the mod Mecha Pulse, you only get armor if you're the one to kill the enemy. An ally killing it doesn't proc the bonus. So if you miss your opportunity and someone kills the marked enemy in a horde, and you never notice the marked enemy because it's somewhere you can't see it, you have to wait for the mark to repoc. You only get a 5 second window to find the enemy before the Mecha Pulse buff ends, and if you miss it, you have to wait 15 seconds at minimum with the full set. It takes even longer if you're not running the full set.

Will the Ally get the Armor buf?

There is still so much questions, but enough, your time you spent with description is highly appreciated. Many thanks, I must figured out by myself.

Edit: With Pack Leader, 1x Precept, Maul and Bite there are 6 Slots left, fair enough to combine.

Edited by (PS4)Onder6099
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On 2018-11-20 at 1:01 PM, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

So it works this way and I thought it’s something like: Marked Nox dealing Toxin Dmg was killed so enemies in his radius will be hit by Toxin Proc.

Will the Ally get the Armor buf?

There is still so much questions, but enough, your time you spent with description is highly appreciated. Many thanks, I must figured out by myself.

Edit: With Pack Leader, 1x Precept, Maul and Bite there are 6 Slots left, fair enough to combine.


I suppose you can, but, then your beast companion doesn't have any survivability mods to make Pack Leader worth it. Removing Pack Leader would leave your pet without any survivability at all.. Lets say you give them just health to properly use Pack leader. Now you have 5 mod slots left. Now what about Fetch, the vacuum for pets? Ok now you have 4 mods left. This generosity in mod capacity only really works for Kubrows, but they have less status chance than Kavats. Kavats run into the problem of having even more favorable utility mods you'd want to run despite having marginally higher status chance.

With Kavats, you have to consider things like Swipe making their objectively lower damage scale better by virtue of hitting more than one enemy.

This is also ignoring that running just Link Health and Pack Leader isn't really reliable survival on anything except Smeeta with Tek Assault and Tek Enhance synergizing with Mischeif. Which, by the way, if you do that you still have to run Tek Enhance, Tek Assault, Mischief, in addition with Pack Leader and Link Health. That's the most reliable survivability it gets and that's 5 mods out of the gate. 7 with maul and Bite, and what of Swipe? Animal Instinct? Fetch? Fetch is pretty hard to negotiate against. So now you only have 2 slots. Ok I guess you can fit 2 dual stats.

But in this case, you're still losing out on a lot to have 120% damage in elemental, and just about a total 15% status on a Kavat. Not bad, but, kind of underwhelming considering you're giving up a second precept and a lot of utility and survival or damage.

My Proposal is two-fold. Have Beast Dual stats increase Status chance by a flat additive amount and have the 60% elemental not just add 60% of that elemental damage but work as a weaker Maul Mod for the additional damage and not just the added element. Think Shotgun's Blaze Mod but with flat status chance too. If you can run a Beast Dual Stat over Maul at the cost of less damage such that you need 2 to fall short of Maul, and 3 to barely break even with it, I think it'd be much fairer given that Beast Companions do not have moddable weapons and instead share mod space with damage, survival, and utility. Something neither sentinels nor Moas have to deal with.

It doesn't solve the problem with status chance, but if the mods gave flat status chance too we'd be golden and it'd be worth the space in my opinion.
 

Edited by Azimbee
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On 2018-11-24 at 11:14 PM, Azimbee said:


I suppose you can, but, then your beast companion doesn't have any survivability mods to make Pack Leader worth it. Removing Pack Leader would leave your pet without any survivability at all.. Lets say you give them just health to properly use Pack leader. Now you have 5 mod slots left. Now what about Fetch, the vacuum for pets? Ok now you have 4 mods left. This generosity in mod capacity only really works for Kubrows, but they have less status chance than Kavats. Kavats run into the problem of having even more favorable utility mods you'd want to run despite having marginally higher status chance.

With Kavats, you have to consider things like Swipe making their objectively lower damage scale better by virtue of hitting more than one enemy.

This is also ignoring that running just Link Health and Pack Leader isn't really reliable survival on anything except Smeeta with Tek Assault and Tek Enhance synergizing with Mischeif. Which, by the way, if you do that you still have to run Tek Enhance, Tek Assault, Mischief, in addition with Pack Leader and Link Health. That's the most reliable survivability it gets and that's 5 mods out of the gate. 7 with maul and Bite, and what of Swipe? Animal Instinct? Fetch? Fetch is pretty hard to negotiate against. So now you only have 2 slots. Ok I guess you can fit 2 dual stats.

But in this case, you're still losing out on a lot to have 120% damage in elemental, and just about a total 15% status on a Kavat. Not bad, but, kind of underwhelming considering you're giving up a second precept and a lot of utility and survival or damage.

My Proposal is two-fold. Have Beast Dual stats increase Status chance by a flat additive amount and have the 60% elemental not just add 60% of that elemental damage but work as a weaker Maul Mod for the additional damage and not just the added element. Think Shotgun's Blaze Mod but with flat status chance too. If you can run a Beast Dual Stat over Maul at the cost of less damage such that you need 2 to fall short of Maul, and 3 to barely break even with it, I think it'd be much fairer given that Beast Companions do not have moddable weapons and instead share mod space with damage, survival, and utility. Something neither sentinels nor Moas have to deal with.

It doesn't solve the problem with status chance, but if the mods gave flat status chance too we'd be golden and it'd be worth the space in my opinion.
 

Most of players want from Beast to become Super Tanky high DPS healing Vacuum cleaners without any effort to throw them into missions and don’t care, it doesn’t work this way. In RL who owned living animal knows that he must assimilate his needs to needs of his pet. If you go downtown with your dog 1 hand is always busy with dog lash and you must, from time to time, check if your pet is not doing something wrong.

If I go Melee only with Life Strike, I don’t need any help from my Beast, Medi Ray, Fetch etc not needed. I’m willing to say yes for Link Health, but Warframe should equip Vitality also, we still have 5 Slots.

Back to Fetch, why No:

1. I’m Melee only

2. I want to have control over Orbs pick up. I made this Clip for another Topic, but I was marked as Elitist, so idc about them and post it here:

Why should I sacrifice survivability, mine and Beast, for someone’s laziness?

Another example: Eidolon Hunt, Sahasa (thanks to Dig change with U23.4 PC), 4x Energize, 1x Loot Detector, we want to trigger Energize not right before or during Energy Spikes but after, impossible with any kind of Vacuum. 

The Topic slightly derailed, so would be nice to bring it back.

I asked about Ally to get buff. Imagine situation: Enemy was marked by high Armor Valkyr and killed by Chroma which will cast Vex Armor, Profit for whole squad? Unfortunately this needs communication between players and we know that this is one of General problems of WF. How about forgotten Elements Augment minds like Venom Dose, how they work with Dual stat Mods? 

Edited by (PS4)Onder6099
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