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Improvement Idea - Limbo's Banish


Somnia
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A quality-of-life tweak to Banish, to make Limbo a smidgen more squad-friendly:

  1.  When an ally outside the rift shoots/hits a banished enemy inside the rift, the ally will be put into the rift.
  2. When an ally in the rift shoots/hits an enemy outside the rift, the ally will be removed from the rift.

 

  • This grants smoother transitions to and fro the rift for allies and likely fewer frustrations.
  • What happens if an ally simultaneously hits multiple enemies that are both in and outside the rift? (such

as with an AoE or melee) Unsure. (Maybe nothing, maybe something violent, or maybe prioritize non-rift enemies. Keep it simple. Something to brainstorm.)

  • This would not apply to enemies and allies inside the rift via cataclysm bubble. (For the obvious presence of the bubble keeping everything inside the rift.)
  • This would not apply to exalted weapons, which count as abilities that can already hit things inside and outside the rift freely.
  • The transitioning shot/hit's damage should register on the hit enemy that was in the opposite plane. (No one wants to have to charge an opticor to transition, then recharge to fire again while the enemy's staring them down; that has the potential to get the player killed)
Edited by Cognate
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16 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

I don't see anything that would be gained by this that isn't gained by the Limbo being an active player in the group instead of standing in Cataclysm like a banana.

You're not wrong, and this is also aimed at mitigating Banish trolls hindering teammates when they get especially salty, akin to a Switch Teleport Loki troll.

Limbo still has the power to slow down action against the will of their teammates, akin to Vauban's Bastille, with the long-range fire denial of a Frost snowglobe spam in inconvenient locations. He's been a ball of troll fuel and counter-intuitiveness for a long time. This is a tweak to bring him to being less of a nuisance, even if only a smidgen.

Edited by Cognate
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The idea adds nothing to the fluidity of the game.

As you already mentioned, there are a whole lot of exceptions to deal with.

And also, what happens in the simple case of missing a shot?

What about shotguns, or really any weapon modded for multishot, which doesn't have a perfect 100 accuracy? As soon as the accuracy is less than 100 weapons are nor guaranteed to make their bullets hit the exact same spot, so in every of those cases you have to decide what happens if you hit a banished and a non-banished enemy with the same salvo?

What about punchthrough?

The idea needlessly overcomlicates literally every weapon attack in the game.

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14 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

The idea adds nothing to the fluidity of the game.

As you already mentioned, there are a whole lot of exceptions to deal with.

And also, what happens in the simple case of missing a shot?

What about shotguns, or really any weapon modded for multishot, which doesn't have a perfect 100 accuracy? As soon as the accuracy is less than 100 weapons are nor guaranteed to make their bullets hit the exact same spot, so in every of those cases you have to decide what happens if you hit a banished and a non-banished enemy with the same salvo?

What about punchthrough?

The idea needlessly overcomlicates literally every weapon attack in the game.

Fair points, esp. about punchthrough, which is why I brought up the bullet regarding: 'what happens if multiple in and out are hit?' I'm uncertain as to how that should be exactly resolved, esp. in an elegant/simple manner, and the subject is certainly open to suggestions on that front.

Simply attacking instead of rolling to transition is more intuitive for unfamiliar and seasoned players encountering him; that aspect does aid fluidity.

Edited by Cognate
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vor 2 Minuten schrieb Cognate:

Limbo still has the power to slow down action against the will of their teammates, akin to Vauban's Bastille, with the long-range fire denial of a Frost snowglobe spam in convenient locations. This is a tweak to bring him to being less of a nuisance, even if only a smidgen.

Don't like playing with a Limbo on your team? Leave the group!

Other people don't like to play with your Limbo? Get gud so you don't get in the way of others.

Worried about trolls? To bad! If somebody wants to troll others he will find a way, even if you fix another. The only fix here is: don't play public to begin with and instead only play with people you know.

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6 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Don't like playing with a Limbo on your team? Leave the group!

Other people don't like to play with your Limbo? Get gud so you don't get in the way of others.

Worried about trolls? To bad! If somebody wants to troll others he will find a way, even if you fix another. The only fix here is: don't play public to begin with and instead only play with people you know.

Dismissive arguments like that about Limbo have been thrown around before and after each of his reworks, and this suggestion was put forth despite them because he can still be better. You don't have to write all that to suggest that you're satisfied with him in his current state, and I did also raise concern over the possibility of a complication with my suggestion, with the hope of streamlining ideas from others. 

Edited by Cognate
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I'm sorry. It was not my intention to be dismissive, I was just being realistic.

Trolls go as far back as when Lokis switch teleport was introduced. Trolling will find a way. Just as life, which is ironic, since most trolls don't have much of the latter.

But in all seriousness, what you try to achiev is a dead end. No offense, but a target-based plain switch is basically impossible to implement and something like this whould only lead to even more confusion than Limbos current iteration.

With games featuring as many characters as Warframe it's simply impossible to achieve true balance between every single character.

I learned this back when I played League of legends.

Some characters are stronger than others, some are easier to play than others, some require more skill to really pull out their potential. This is called a skill ceiling.

Limbo is so strong, he is borderline to breaking the game, even though unintended, this is balanced out by having an extremly high skill ceiling.

Limbo is currently even stronger than Frost was, when his Snowglobe had invinite HP, since enemies entering his defensive area are not only soft CCed, but hard CCed.

 

This is just personal opinion, but I'm fine with Limbo being hard to play right.

However, it is fact, that true equilibrium between nearly 40 characters is basically impossible anyway.

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To improve Banish, the ability (not the rift mechanic) I'd prefer it were target AoE just so you don't have a cone spreading out banishing everyone on the screen when you just wanted one or two guys. 

Rift Surge should be the method of further spreading it in combination. As of right now his 1 and 4 can already cover the whole map alone. 

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