Jump to content

Some Feedback, and Annoying Bugs While I'm at it


xeal209
 Share

Recommended Posts

Normally a give a few patches for bugs to fix but there's been 8 and Garuda still remains usable only a little more than half the time for me. Posting it here since I figured I'll go ahead and include my thoughts on the frame as well. Since this is the feedback thread, that's while start. Her passive, the claws I use, actually like them as weapons and they look nice. The other part of her passive doesn't exist to me. Lets be honest, with the way shields currently work where they're easily one shot, no one in their right mind wants to stick around at half health to get some kind of power bonus and so it never really see's any use with me. 

Her 1, I like the blood ball, but the shield doesn't really fit her aesthetic imo. I think it should be more akin to Zephyr's 3 where it's a radial barrier of blood that doesn't completely negate damage as it currently does, just mitigation, probably not to the extend of Mesa's 3 if it's given a radius that allies could potentially turtle up in. Alternatively, instead of somehow siphoning blood from bullets that hit the shield, she can siphon it from slash procs, her 4 as an example, that builds up her blood storage ball thing, maybe with a multiplier as it already does. Then the ability can be cast and it uses this stored blood to create a barrier with health equal to the stored amount, perhaps scaled in some way if it turns out to be weak, but I don't think it will? My thought process is similar to Equinox using Maim, how they store up damage dealt to enemies and can later unleash it all at once to clear the room. Her 4 could potentially grant a massively strong shield, though I suppose that depends on whether or not it counts enemies being one shot, then it might just be useless. To keep it in line with how the ability currently works, the remaining barrier can be expelled to do a radial knock back and damage around Garuda and maybe make them all bleed to start working on the next one. Actually I can see the second suggestion being overly abused because people have a habit of finding a way, perhaps it can work like that still, but with damage mitigation that weakens as the barrier loses health, less blood = thinner shield.

Her 2 is great, don't change it, just the bug that I will address after all the abilities. I suppose if the shield is changed to be more like my first suggestion where it's radial damage mitigation then perhaps a nerf to the rate it heals, otherwise she'd end up immortal between damage mitigation, healing, and an on demand source of energy to keep it going infinitely.

Her 3 seems to be a good split in the community, some people hate it, some people like it. I myself have had a few unfortunate accidents from using it at a time I thought I was safe but it turns out I wasn't or just fat fingering the 3 button instead of the 2 and, well, I don't think I need to say anymore. There's a lot of ways to get energy and if it's for content where you're REALLY going to need it, then you'll probably end up with a Harrow or Trinity. If not, people have energy pizzas and most players use Zenurik from what I encounter. Personally, I like the on demand energy without relying on outside sources and it allows me to use something aside from Zenurik for once. Zenurik is just too functionally good with energy gain to not use it in public groups.

Her 4 is something that grows on you. I see a lot of people saying it's complete crap, and I thought the same when I first used it. I didn't know it's more or less hunter munitions on steroids, giving guaranteed slash procs from any source that deals damage to them. The problem is the charge time. If you want it to actually be useful, then that needs to either be eliminated or cut down because as it stands, I don't want to use mods to cut cast time for one ability, I hardly have slots available as it is. Besides, it's a combo ability more like Nova's 4 that requires damage from other sources to be useful and even Nova can reach several rooms away without line of sight.

Now the bug's involve her 1 and 2. Using her 1 I sometimes find myself falling off the map now that's probably slightly more irritating to fix but, I've never had that problem with the augment mod for Valkyr's 4 so perhaps an animation change is in order, something that doesn't potentially clip through the ground. Her 2 I've found that sometimes it fails. Sometimes I can't explain how it failed but other times I notice a legitimate reason for failing. The unexplained reason is the flying crewmen (forgot names) in Orb Vallis, sometimes I use it one of them and they just kind of suspend in the air for a bit but don't get impaled and this fails the cast. The explainable instances seem to involve an enemy either dying or becoming immune with the absolute crappiest of timing stories that is honestly just too common for me to admit. Mesa using her 4 or relic spawns getting those i-frames while they corrupt often cause it to fail. Now when the ability fails, most of the time, it stops me from using any and all abilities, this includes her claws as part of the passive, and prevents me from mounting on my archwing and k-drive, though I've not actually tried to use any other gear during these moments because it's always a combat situation. Naturally, I fix it by running to body of water or some ledge to fall off and reset and then I can use stuff again, but that's only until it fails once again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You didn't play the frame enough.

No one in their right mind wants to stick around at half health to get some kind of power bonus

She has an energy rank bonus of +125% (most frames have +50% for reference) meaning that you can and should use quick thinking + primed flow with her. There's no reason not to abuse a passive that doubles your ability and weapon damages. 

A radial barrier of blood that doesn't completely negate damage

No, you don't want that. damage reduction seriously handicap a frame power scaling as at some point you simply get one shot. Her shield is "fine", the way she generate it is questionable. 

Her 2 is great, don't change it

Her 2 is her only very bad ability actually, it leaves you in animation lock upon casting where you're vulnerable to damage and CC, same for her 1. Furthermore you benefit a lot more from simply sticking to melee + life strike to feed your 3 on demand instead of using your 2, it optimize the use of your passive. Also it only boost her survivability against lower level enemies that are not a problem as long as you know basic movements or use an armor mod/adaptation. If anything that ability justifies itself just because the animation expose the frame, not because the frame is in danger/need healing in general. (well except when using her 1)

I don't want to use mods to cut cast time for one ability

Her orb uses casting speed to charge damage, her 3 also scales with it allowing you to use it in melee. You have no reasons not to use natural talent with her. She's one of the only frame who gets more than simple animation increase from it. 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"You didn't play the frame enough" why thanks for the stupidly useless comment with absolutely no basis. I've used nothing but Garuda since she was released. She does have better energy and I haven't tried that build admittedly but I've heard it's crap and doesn't work multiple times, it's not as if I've not thought about it.

"No, you don't want that." Oh I'm pretty sure I do, that's why I brought it up. You get one shot anyways, sure, if you're fighting ridiculously high level enemies that don't actually have any place in normal content and shouldn't be part of the equation. To be fair, I don't really care about the shield only being in front, it's mainly an aesthetic thing for me since she's all about blood and gore and her shield... isn't blood, and gets blood out of bullets somehow.

If her 2 is bad for you then I think you're the one that hasn't played her enough. Her 2 easily see's the most use with me which is why it's so frustrating when it causes the bugs I mentioned. You can spam her 2 as many times as you want and have multiple altars so you can knock any and all heavy units out of the game and they still take damage from outside sources, they just don't die until their timer ends, so it's more than just some healing that works faster the more health you're missing.

I did not know the orb uses it and the 3, I suppose that works with life link or something, assuming that really is the case.

Edited by xeal209
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Shelusine said:

She has an energy rank bonus of +125% (most frames have +50% for reference) meaning that you can and should use quick thinking + primed flow with her. There's no reason not to abuse a passive that doubles your ability and weapon damages. 

QT=stagger till death, and pain thashhole means another mod slot gone, her 4 basically don't benefit from passive and if you use 1 you lose your shield and as you cleverly stayed at low health  you will get killed 

 

18 hours ago, Shelusine said:

No, you don't want that. damage reduction seriously handicap a frame power scaling as at some point you simply get one shot. Her shield is "fine", the way she generate it is questionable. 

Better than getting one shot at lower level when getting shot from the side

 

18 hours ago, Shelusine said:

Her orb uses casting speed to charge damage, her 3 also scales with it allowing you to use it in melee. You have no reasons not to use natural talent with her. She's one of the only frame who gets more than simple animation increase from it. 

Health orb charge time DO NOT benefit from any mod, her 3 DO NOT scale with melee

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Shelusine said:

You didn't play the frame enough.

How about I say you didn't play enough frames to understand how synergy and buffs works

You can't just rely on QT to stay alive, the stagger will kill you eventually

Also just because you want the mere 100% bonuse damage don't mean all player should completely forgo the only survivability ability and limit themselves to melee which if you are using her 4 becomes useless as well

Edited by Sorrode
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why thanks for the stupidly useless comment with absolutely no basis. I've used nothing but Garuda since she was released.

Well, that's a lot of anger for an admitted fact. Playing a lot doesn't mean playing enough AND that isn't meant to be offensive. It just means that you should try the builds you "heard" were bad by yourself and check if you don't actually get more out of her.

If you're fighting ridiculously high level enemies that don't actually have any place in normal content and shouldn't be part of the equation.

High level enemies shouldn't be part of the equation when talking about the frame with the highest power scaling ? While this is your opinion I have to point out how ridiculous it sounds when taking a larger part of the community into account. 

You can spam her 2 as many times as you want and have multiple altars so you can knock any and all heavy units out of the game and they still take damage from outside sources, they just don't die until their timer ends, so it's more than just some healing that works faster the more health you're missing.

Or you can use her 1, knock these heavy unit and kill them. Or if you position yourself right you can spam your 4 in corridors and completely shred any heavy unit and their surrounding in the mix. Which is faster ? You could even be more creative and imagine a long range casting ability that would CC/Damage the enemy instead since she's a caster and add an health steal on her 1. Her 2 would be good if she was a tank or a tanky support that will prefer longer fights while being more tanky but she is an utility dps with the stats and utility that match that role. If her 2 gave some kind of CC to enemies in its area, it would be a lot more useful and would justify the animation lock and give a good preability to then use her 1 more safely allowing more offensive modding.

Right now, the reason why her 2 is so popular is because that's the only way to actually "have fun" with her, you can't die in normal content and the interactivity is good (bugs aside) but realistically once you take another good frame you realize how much faster it is and how much more you provide. Even comparing her to another "caster" like Mag who has no animation lock, can rush through content, provide support and use CC with an insane damage scaling while being average. 

QT=stagger till death, and pain thashhole means another mod slot gone

That's why your shield is camera directional. Once it's up and your positioning/movements are correct, getting chain staggered is almost impossible. Also, mod wise, if I ever decide to socket treshold, I still don't use more space than a full umbra Garuda.

her 4 basically don't benefit from passive and if you use 1 you lose your shield and as you cleverly stayed at low health  you will get killed 

Her 4 does benefits from her passive. It double the damages and basically the health bar up to which you can one CC shot enemies. Going from lvl55~ Heavy Gunner to lvl80~ at 200% PS. That's literally the difference between low content and sortie against enemies that resist slash. As for the 1 you are right after a certain level, like lvl180+ I need to be way too careful about it. But truth be told I'll go further by paying attention as to where I cast my 1 than someone who socket full health and will get one shot eventually all of that while performing better in normal content. It is also on the list of my personal feedbacks as it doesn't make sense for a frame with lower defensive stats and abilities than Saryn to be forced into melee to keep a shield that is designed for mid-long range. 

Better than getting one shot at lower level when getting shot from the side

No, getting rewarded for your individual abilities is far better for a power scaling frame. 

Health orb charge time DO NOT benefit from any mod, her 3 DO NOT scale with melee

Uhm.............. You might want to recheck that because it does. I did not say that her 3 scales with melee, you misread that sentence. I said that natural talent works with her 3 which means that you can use it in melee with comfort. 

edit : in case it isn't widely known I uploaded a video comparing the cast speed. No cast speed = 14:29->19:22  Cast speed = 52:05->55:09 

How about I say you didn't play enough frames to understand how synergy and buffs works

About that... lol

Edited by Shelusine
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Shelusine said:

That's why your shield is camera directional. Once it's up and your positioning/movements are correct, getting chain staggered is almost impossible. Also, mod wise, if I ever decide to socket treshold, I still don't use more space than a full umbra Garuda.

Do notice enemy comes from all direction in missions like defence?

 

1 hour ago, Shelusine said:

Her 4 does benefits from her passive. It double the damages and basically the health bar up to which you can one CC shot enemies. Going from lvl55~ Heavy Gunner to lvl80~ at 200% PS. That's literally the difference between low content and sortie against enemies that resist slash. As for the 1 you are right after a certain level, like lvl180+ I need to be way too careful about it. But truth be told I'll go further by paying attention as to where I cast my 1 than someone who socket full health and will get one shot eventually all of that while performing better in normal content. It is also on the list of my personal feedbacks as it doesn't make sense for a frame with lower defensive stats and abilities than Saryn to be forced into melee to keep a shield that is designed for mid-long range. 

Her 4 does something like 150 damage, with 100% bonuse it is only 300 you aren't gonna benefit from it other than killing things ignis can one shot

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Shelusine said:

No, getting rewarded for your individual abilities is far better for a power scaling frame

You aren't gonna get rewarded for casting 1, you are at point blank if you cast for the shield, you lose the shield 8t you try to kill with it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Shelusine said:

Uhm.............. You might want to recheck that because it does. I did not say that her 3 scales with melee, you misread that sentence. I said that natural talent works with her 3 which means that you can use it in melee with comfort. 

edit : in case it isn't widely known I uploaded a video comparing the cast speed. No cast speed = 14:29->19:22  Cast speed = 52:05->55:09 

Cast speed is not the same as CHARGE speed, it is fixed at 50 %

Using if the 3 REQUIRES healing return on your melee it is no way a good ability, it is a rare mod and is limited to melee

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As far as I can tell with Garuda, she has the hints of what would be a good frame. If they made the shield from her 1 an omni-directional shield instead of a facing shield, it would make more sense. Keep in mind that it has a limited amount of health, and on top of that, whether you like it or not, enemies spawn from every direction. So unless you're facing every enemy at the same time, you're bound to get hit eventually. If that hit ends up being a bombard, or another enemy with heavy CC, that could spell the end of you.

Mind you, that's at late-game content. If you're in the normal levels of play, it won't really matter too much. Your 2 will keep you alive, and your 3 will keep your energy up without issue. Move into late-game, however, and suddenly you start having issues. Even if her 1 does scale VERY well against high health enemies, it comes with the problem that it requires you to be up close and personal. That 90% damage reduction doesn't really matter when you leaped into the middle of a horde of enemies, and there's a butcher on your bum cuz you decided to target the Bombard. And to top it all off, that dumb leap at the start of the animation is just unnecessary, and sometimes throws me off. Though I get it, since it's basically a teleport to an enemy.

As for her 2, I also am not fond of the bugs that come along with it. I've noticed that it doesn't maintain a steady heal rate for her HP, unless it goes off of missing HP only. If that's the case, then whatever, I guess. Then there's the bug with using it on an enemy that dies when you hit them with it. Not only will it leave a "fake" alter, but it also prevents you from using the alter again for the rest of the mission. I noticed this most frequently against Infested Runners, since they explode when they get close to you. Other than that, I think a small range bump would be the only change I can possibly think of for this ability. 6m to maybe 8m or 10m base.

Her 3, I have zero qualms with. It functions as it should, even gives less energy when you use less HP, and scales with efficiency. Good touch, IMO.

As for her 4, I consider it more of a team ability. It mostly just feels like I'm supposed to use it to guarantee slash procs for my team, since the damage it does and the slash procs it provides on its own aren't all that great.

Her passive, to me, is a bit silly. As stated earlier, a mid-armor frame like Garuda being shoved into the front lines is very strange, especially since her kit doesn't seem to enforce the way they want her to be played. If they really want her passive to be worth something, maybe it would work better if it were tied to the damage number of her 1, or total enemies marked with her 4, or even just upping the max bonus to be granted at 50% instead of 1%. That way you can play her a bit more on the safe side, and still juggle her damage a bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Small tip, you can actually put multiple quote in one post instead of posting multiple times.

Do notice enemy comes from all direction in missions like defence?

Defense ? If you solo defense spamming her 2 is preferable as you can heal the objective. So, you don't really run into that stagger issue at all. 

In any other scenario you should mod for full range in defense. 

Her 4 does something like 150 damage, with 100% bonuse it is only 300 you aren't gonna benefit from it other than killing things ignis can one shot

It's bleeding that happens multiple times... That's why one application kills lvl80 slash resistant enemies. It's not just 150-300 it's pretty much 50K vs 100K damage. I don't remember the Health scaling of infested but I still oneshot lvl400+ charger with it in aoe over a 60m range. I don't see the point in comparing such ability to ignis. 

You aren't gonna get rewarded for casting 1, you are at point blank if you cast for the shield, you lose the shield 8t you try to kill with it

Yes, I am rewarded for casting her 1 successfully and using my positioning knowledge + mastery of the camera directional of the shield to avoid damage effectively. That doesn't mean that I agree with every aspect of the ability though as already said. But, yes, the shield is great for a caster and is far more effective at higher level content than a 90% damage reduction bubble, the wat it is acquired is questionable though.

Cast speed is not the same as CHARGE speed

Yes, it is. What did you think it referred to ? I hope you didn't mistake it for leaping speed. 

it is fixed at 50 %

Not to my testings but the difference is so small I would agree that it isn't very useful. 

Using if the 3 REQUIRES healing return on your melee it is no way a good ability, it is a rare mod and is limited to melee

I am not sure I understand this sentence, it's very messy but I'll do my best.

Healing return ? No. It heals automatically and is forcing you to use 3 way too often. Life strike is the only viable ones. One spin to win and you're full health AND the spin is still boosted by your 100% damage boost so there are no dps loss. "In no way a good ability" I assume you mean her 3 ? It is very good since it gives mana and a safe 100% damage increase. But, truthfully (but that's my opinion) I think her 3 should be her 2 and her 2 should be her 3 + have a debuff included for enemies near the altar. 

 

 
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Shelusine said:

Defense ? If you solo defense spamming her 2 is preferable as you can heal the objective. So, you don't really run into that stagger issue at all. 

In any other scenario you should mod for full range in defense. 

a build for a single ability, and you are saying she is a good frame?

also do notice doing so mean you arn't using her 4 nor passive again?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Shelusine said:

Yes, it is. What did you think it referred to ? I hope you didn't mistake it for leaping speed. 

While the Dread Heart is floating above Garuda, holding down the ability button (default 1 ) causes Garuda to grasp the heart in her talons and drain 50 Energy per second to continuously increase the absorbed damage by 50% of the currently stored damage value per second. Releasing the ability button causes Garuda to throw the heart as a high velocity explosive projectile toward the location on the aiming reticle. The heart bursts on impact with an enemy or a surface to inflict the amplified damage and a guaranteed Impact b Impact Status Effect to all enemies within a 6 / 7 / 8 / 10 meter radius.

  • Charge energy drain per second is affected by Ability Efficiency.
  • Charge damage per second is not affected by mods.
  • Explosion radius is affected by Ability Range.

Charge damage per second is not affected by mods.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Shelusine said:

I am not sure I understand this sentence, it's very messy but I'll do my best.

I was typing on my phone and the IF somehow came after USING

IF the 3 REQUIRES healing return for it to be a stand alone ability, it is no way a good ability, it just turns the frame into a melee only frame, it no way synergize with 1 and 4.

Also healing return makes her passive useless as well as you won't be at low health

You may still use the 2 but then what is the point if you got healing return

Link to comment
Share on other sites

a build for a single ability, and you are saying she is a good frame?

I never said she was a good frame and solo defense at a level where staggers occur will require you to keep the objective safe and she indeed has an ability that is perfect for that.(granted one would prefer to solo that with her over going full range in a group.)

? also do notice doing so mean you arn't using her 4 nor passive again?

It depends on the map. As you may know her 1 and 2 are kind of buggy with small obstacles right now and defense is usually full of those. If there are tons of obstacle I'll use her 4 and passive more often.

Charge damage per second is not affected by mods.

That's a very weird way to refer to charging multiplier but at least I understand what you meant. But no I wasn't referring to that regardless.

IF the 3 REQUIRES healing return for it to be a stand alone ability, it is no way a good ability, it just turns the frame into a melee only frame, it no way synergize with 1 and 4.

It doesn't "requires" life strike*, it's just more efficient than her 2 that recover her health constantly and prevents your from having access to double damage. If anything her 2 is the problem for not having additional efficiency. Also it doesn't turn the frame into melee only, it's just that spinning is the most efficient way to use life strike in normal gameplay (and to just clear small areas in general)  since you clear corridors faster and then have full energy to then clear open rooms with your 4. In high level survivals my aura is speed holster which allows me to switch when I need to very effectively.

As for the synergy I still use her 1 and 4, don't get me wrong, I use it as often as anyone else, maybe even more. I just recover my energy faster and safer. Since I don't expose myself.

?? Also healing return makes her passive useless as well as you won't be at low health

That's why you should only use life strike.

? You may still use the 2 but then what is the point if you got healing return

There are situations where I use the 2. In high level content sometimes you have these enemies that quickly rush in your camping spot, having a long CC + heal to feed your 3 help as I can't always finish them when there's too much aggro. But, it's as you said, her 2 is mostly pointless to me most of time in its current form and a huge waste of time. When not having to use an ability double/triple my clearing time, I guess it's safe to say that the ability needs some changes. 

Edited by Shelusine
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...