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Mesa Peacemakers Nerf?


Grimmstyler
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Now i love Mesa how she is.. But is it fair that Titania's Exalted Gun has aammo pool?

Maybe Mesa should have a Reload as well.. (.9 sec)

Put Ivaras Armetis Bow in perspective..

Armetis Bow has a Charge Rate .+ Reload Speed... Limiting DPS compared to Mesa

Edited by Grimmstyler
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Just now, Grimmstyler said:

Now i love Mesa how she is.. But is it fair that Titania's Exalted Gun has aammo pool?

Because it's not just about the Weapons. It's about the skills.
Mesa's Peacemake has you stay in one space. If enemies are behind cover, the skill is useless, and you are an easy target.

Titanias Ultimate makes her smaler, she gets an evasion-bonus, she get her little flies and she has a melee-weapon aswell.

So just comparing ammo isn't enough. You have to look at the whole picture.

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8 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

Because it's not just about the Weapons. It's about the skills.
Mesa's Peacemake has you stay in one space. If enemies are behind cover, the skill is useless, and you are an easy target.

Titanias Ultimate makes her smaler, she gets an evasion-bonus, she get her little flies and she has a melee-weapon aswell.

So just comparing ammo isn't enough. You have to look at the whole picture.

Yes but you can end ability or [Mesa Waltz] to track target..

Mesa has a Damage Reduction ability..

Multiple targets can be shot by Mesa fast. Compared to Hit and Scan Titania

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4 minutes ago, Grimmstyler said:

Yes but you can end ability or [Mesa Waltz] to track target..

And Titania doesn't need to do that. So energy saved...

4 minutes ago, Grimmstyler said:

Mesa has a Damage Reduction ability..

So do we talk about the whole kit now? Or just about one ability? I'm confused.

4 minutes ago, Grimmstyler said:

Multiple targets can be shot by Mesa fast. Compared to Hit and Scan Titania

Yeah... at a way higher energy-cost and other stuff that differentiates the two.

Edited by WhiteMarker
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3 minutes ago, Grimmstyler said:

Yes but you can end ability or [Mesa Waltz] to track target..

Mesa has a Damage Reduction ability..

Multiple targets can be shot by Mesa fast. Compared to Hit and Scan Titania

Titania can lock on to anything and do damage, mesa only works on MOST targets. Say lephantes for example, mesa if #*!%ing useless on that boss. Titania is actually very good.

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6 minutes ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

H-how would you even reload the peacemakers? Where is the magazine? Is there a magazine? Is it somehow, for some strange reason, stripper clip fed? Do they work like flintlocks?

Please try asking yourself these important questions before proposing such an idea.

I'm sure Auto Reload can be implemented when not holding trigger between targeting.. .9sec is not that bad, so after magazine is spent it auto reloads as well

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3 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

And Titania doesn't need to do that. So energy saved..

No she doesn't.. But Mesa can clear enemies faster than Titania

5 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

So do we talk about the whole kit now? Or just about one ability? I'm confused.

Good point. Peacemakers are a weapon by itself. How does the ability juatify magazine?

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vor 22 Minuten schrieb Grimmstyler:

Now i love Mesa how she is.. But is it fair that Titania's Exalted Gun has aammo pool?

Maybe Mesa should have a Reload as well.. (.9 sec)

titania is in a bad spot, so much even that she needs a rework. comparing her to one of the top frames in the game and demanding a nerf...wow

u should rather ask for a titania buff which has been mentioned in the recent dev stream lastly instead of screaming for a nerf which is not even justified considering mesa has downsides too...

 

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You're comparing 2 completely different frames with completely different kits here OP, you do realize that, right? They function differently, fill different roles, and are balanced using completely different parameters.

Alrighty then, let's follow you into that rabbit hole, how about we ask for Titania's 4 to get its mobility nerfed to the ground since Peacemaker removes Mesa's ability to move entirely? Seems fair to me, it follows this nonsensical reasoning of yours perfectly after all, so you will agree with it entirely, right? Maybe we should also remove the evasion bonus, since Peacemaker doesn't have that either? And the ability to use melee attacks too while we're at it, I mean you can't do that while using Peacemaker, so it's only logical to remove it as well, right?

Try to think this one through, please. You're not making any sense here. How is Mesa's Peacemaker not having an ammo pool hurting Titania's 4 in any way, shape or form? How are these 2 abilities similar enough for anyone to make a comparison that uses one to ask for the other to be balanced around it? Come on man, use your higher cognitive functions a little bit, for Lotus' sake. You seem to like Titania, and for some reason you aim your frustration over her need of a balance pass or rework at another frame in the most arbitrary way, one that is completely different, shares nothing in common with her, ask for just as nonsensical and arbitrary a nerf, which wouldn't help Titania herself at all, and that Mesa doesn't need or deserve. Just... think it over mate.

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5 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

titania is in a bad spot, so much even that she needs a rework. comparing her to one of the top frames in the game and demanding a nerf...wow

u should rather ask for a titania buff which has been mentioned in the recent dev stream lastly instead of screaming for a nerf which is not even justified considering mesa has downsides too...

 

A comparison between frames is what's really needed for balance..

They both have Exalted Guns, 1 has ammo the other doers not..

EXALTED GUNS! NOT THEIR ABILITIES! 

Just give Titania unlimited ammo.. That balances everything..

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vor 16 Minuten schrieb Grimmstyler:

A comparison between frames is what's really needed for balance..

They both have Exalted Guns, 1 has ammo the other doers not..

EXALTED GUNS! NOT THEIR ABILITIES! 

Just give Titania unlimited ammo.. That balances everything..

u still cant compare them. i mean sure, nothing bad about giving titania unlimited ammo, but thats asking for a buff for titania, not a nerf for mesa so why even call this thread "Mesa peacemakers nerf" ? mesa has nothing to do with titanias issue no matter how much u try to compare them. they are not comparable since they are totally different. the exalted guns are all they have in common.

why this whole comparison and nerf stuff when u basically agree now that a buff for titania would solve the issue and that was already confirmed by DE to happen with fortuna part 2. i dont know if she will get infinite ammo for her dex pixa but she will get buffed.

Edited by Xydeth
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3 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

Artemis Bow doesn't have lower damage when un-charged, the charge only changes the angle of the fan of arrows. You can literally click-spam Artemis Bow for vertical lines and do a ton more damage to single targets.

I don't play Ivara outside of Spy Missions, but i could have swore secondaey fire changes vertical horizontal

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1 minute ago, Grimmstyler said:

I don't play Ivara outside of Spy Missions, but i could have swore secondaey fire changes vertical horizontal

Alt Fire on Artemis Bow fires off your currently selected Quiver arrow, you can imagine the combos that has.

Artemis Bow starts off vertical and fans to horizontal as you charge it, so you have the choice to hit a single target very quickly for DPS, or charge so that you can hit a crowd of fodder at the same height (usually headshot height), the damage isn't affected by the state of the charge.

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17 minutes ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

So they run on batteries?

Well somehow Peacemakers don't have a magazine but they get the Exalted Treatment..

They sure doesn't run on Energy cause that would be a huge Nerf..

If anything I'm just trying to justify Titania's Dex Pixes

 

Edited by Grimmstyler
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15 hours ago, Grimmstyler said:

@Marthrym

We are talking about Exalted weapons having ammo pools. Which Peacemaker does not. And i think Mesa is the soft spot for this discussion

I don't see you complaining about Exalted Blade or Hysteria not having ammo pools, and yet they both are Exalted weapons. And your focus on Dex Pixie gives me the impression that this is not so much about Peacemaker and Mesa than Titania in her current state.

The point I'm trying to make is all Exalted weapons do no work in the same way, nor should they. Making false equivalancies won't get you anywhere. Exalted weapons are too dissimilar to make a 1 for 1 comparison and balance system to apply unilaterally and systematically to all of them, no matter how much you try to make false comparisons and equivalancies. Peacemaker is absolutely not a "soft spot" here, that makes no sense whatsoever. You cannot justify adding a magazine and reload time to it simply because Dex Pixie has these mechanics.

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2 hours ago, Grimmstyler said:

[Mesa Waltz] as an original ability + Peacemakers Magazine Reload Speed 0.7

raqofm.jpg

 

 Roland is "faster than blue lighting" in the novels and/or comics when wielding his Sandalwood guns that were forged from the steel of Excalibur.  But that does not translate vary well to the movies, so they kinda have to show the reload/draw because nobody would be able to see the reload/draw if they didn't.  

So then it would appear  Roland / Mesa never run out of ammo, but in reality they are just way to fast for us to see them reload. 

So no need for PM to have a reload. 

Edited by (XB1)RDeschain82
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On 2018-11-17 at 6:52 PM, Grimmstyler said:

Now i love Mesa how she is.. But is it fair that Titania's Exalted Gun has aammo pool?

Maybe Mesa should have a Reload as well.. (.9 sec)

Put Ivaras Armetis Bow in perspective..

Armetis Bow has a Charge Rate .+ Reload Speed... Limiting DPS compared to Mesa

Titania is just bad (every ability she has, maybe even her 4, could use buffs, or more likely a complete redesign) and Ivara is a walking toolbox that is meta for pretty much everything *except* what Mesa does. ...And that's not saying she's completely incapable of area DPS, either. Assuming she even *needs* to area DPS (Let's just say there are other ways to beat interception than the blunt force approach).

Mesa does what she does so well because she's entirely inflexible in her approach, so if she didn't she'd be a trash fire. She kills lots of enemies and proceeds to not die. She's designed, intentionally from the looks of it, as the definition of a blunt force generalist. But if you need absolutely anything else done she's not even third fiddle. Other frames snipe hard targets better, she doesn't have any stealth capabilities at all (and also can't teleport through lasers like say, Nezha), she has almost no team support, what team support she does have is in the form of crowd control, of which numerous frames do better, her Eidolon hunting capability is mediocre at best (Speaking of Ivara...), she's got no mobility gimmicks, etc.

Please don't go getting her Ember'd. Frankly, that was a big enough mistake by itself, we don't need to go repeating it.

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