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Rework Set Mods Pls!!


Schmerdvana
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Straight to the point, Set Mods are 2 levels downgrade from the necessary mods. My proposed rework would be that stats on the set mods should be the same as their similar mod, however (there should always be a downside) it should need more ranking and probably a higher mod capacity. And you cannot put these similar mods together in a build. 

For example, Gladiator Resolve (similar to Vitality) should have R10 and 440% Health but they will need lets say 15 mod capacity; and when this Gladiator Resolve is equipped, you cannot equip Vitality. Vigilante Pursuit has the same +30 enemy radar as the Enemy Sense, but it should be a exilus as well. You get the gist of it. It is like an upgraded version of the previous mods.

This is my opinion will make set mods worth putting in the build to not downgrade the total effectiveness of the build. The set mods right now are not worth it as a set. imo.

 

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17 minutes ago, Schmerdvana said:

The set mods right now are not worth it as a set

Vigilante set; overload crits from primary weapons. Is amazing as you don't need to have large crit chance to achieve red crits

Augur set; gain overshields from ability use. Very useful for certain frames like Harrow.

Gladiator set; mini bloodrush THAT STACKS WITH BLOODRUSH for a total of 230 % CC that stacks with combo counter, i.e. red crits in seconds. Although with melee 3.0 we don't know how good this will be but for now it's amazing

Hunter set; companions deal 150% damage to enemies with slash procs. Not the best simply due to the fact companion AI is trash.

Mecha set; allows spreading of Status effects to nearby enemies. Amazing (if it worked) for CO builds

Tek set; enemies in area are dealt constant DoT damage. Is good for wiping out low level enemies although not as useful in higher levels

Synth set; reload weapons on holstering. May not sound that good but it is easily faster for some weapons to reload this way, such as the gorgon with that 3.0 second reload.

First 3 listed are easily the best and are totally worth it on some builds. Mecha and Tek sets are suppose to bring a change to the way the game is played (not a lot but some). The Hunter and Synth sets are gimmicky but not bad; but not the best either. This is just listing the set bonuses and not even including the individual mod bonuses you get.

And in my opinion i don't like the idea of preventing the use of similar mods. Even if you bump the stats to be the same it will lead to everyone using the set variant as it provides more and further it will reduce some builds; i.e. i use both maxed vitality, steel fiber and Gladiator Resolve and Gladiator Aegis on my inaros for heaps of tankiness.

Further, you will also prevent the use of Augur secret and intensify, Augur reach and stretch, as well as augur message with continuity; reducing a lot of builds range, duration or strength. As well as Augur pact and hornet strike. See what i'm getting at.

Personally i think set mods should be left as is.

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23 minutes ago, AndouRaiton said:

Vigilante set; overload crits from primary weapons. Is amazing as you don't need to have large crit chance to achieve red crits

Augur set; gain overshields from ability use. Very useful for certain frames like Harrow.

Gladiator set; mini bloodrush THAT STACKS WITH BLOODRUSH for a total of 230 % CC that stacks with combo counter, i.e. red crits in seconds. Although with melee 3.0 we don't know how good this will be but for now it's amazing

Hunter set; companions deal 150% damage to enemies with slash procs. Not the best simply due to the fact companion AI is trash.

Mecha set; allows spreading of Status effects to nearby enemies. Amazing (if it worked) for CO builds

Tek set; enemies in area are dealt constant DoT damage. Is good for wiping out low level enemies although not as useful in higher levels

Synth set; reload weapons on holstering. May not sound that good but it is easily faster for some weapons to reload this way, such as the gorgon with that 3.0 second reload.

First 3 listed are easily the best and are totally worth it on some builds. Mecha and Tek sets are suppose to bring a change to the way the game is played (not a lot but some). The Hunter and Synth sets are gimmicky but not bad; but not the best either. This is just listing the set bonuses and not even including the individual mod bonuses you get.

And in my opinion i don't like the idea of preventing the use of similar mods. Even if you bump the stats to be the same it will lead to everyone using the set variant as it provides more and further it will reduce some builds; i.e. i use both maxed vitality, steel fiber and Gladiator Resolve and Gladiator Aegis on my inaros for heaps of tankiness.

Further, you will also prevent the use of Augur secret and intensify, Augur reach and stretch, as well as augur message with continuity; reducing a lot of builds range, duration or strength. As well as Augur pact and hornet strike. See what i'm getting at.

Personally i think set mods should be left as is.

I think you missed the point. They mean the practicality of actually using most or all of the set mods for builds.

Since they're inferior versions of other mods for the most part you're just making your builds worse purely to get a higher or max bonus of the set effect.

I think they should scale like the Umbral/Sacrificial mods. Where its not just the set bonus going up, but with each set mod the bonuses would scale up too. 

 

Also the augur set effect is trash for quite a few reasons.

1. It caps once you hit overshields. Basically once you have overshields the set effect does nothing, so pretty sureless for Harrow.

2. It uses your abilities modded cost as a restore. Which means it gives more with less efficiency. Which means that you'd need to use something that has a high cost just to get more shields.

This is also an issue with what happens with issue #1. If you cast an ability that doesn't use much energy while having max shields, you're stuck with a small amount of overshields untill it gets taken away.

3. Shields are bad in most cases. Without DR they just don't scale well. Even if it gave shields after reaching overshields the amount would be too small and the requirement to upkeep would be too high.

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1 hour ago, trst said:

So more power creep by making them direct upgrades? Lets not.

Even with the higher cost we'd still be able to slot full builds with them.

Shouldn’t be direct upgrades that’s for sure.

but as they are now the set bonuses don’t get even close to make up for the raw stats you lose. On top of that it is very likely that if you want the full set bonus you are going to use atleast a completely useless mod (depending on setup).

the idea is cool and everything, but practically all this mods are strict downgrades of existing mods or even worse mods with very edge utility that is really a sacrifice to slot those in, but don’t compensate that with a greater bonus

example: 

you don’t want an half assed vitality on your frame, usually you don’t even want the regular vitality with more than double the health stat.

and same goes for melee attack speed, fire rate, damage for pistols etc etc

Edited by JohnKable
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Also, like in almost any other game, set bonuses should be incremental. As they are now, are just dual stat mods.

sets should be that maybe it’s hard to fit all 4 mods but if you do you get a much greater set bonus.

example:

1 set mod - no bonus

2 set mods +10% crit chance

3 set mods +30% crit chance

4 set mods +60% crit chance

this is just for explaining how set stuff works and should work in warframe.

now is just let’s say fixed 10% cc per mod  making them literally just dual stat mods

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3 hours ago, AndouRaiton said:

Vigilante set; overload crits from primary weapons. Is amazing as you don't need to have large crit chance to achieve red crits

Augur set; gain overshields from ability use. Very useful for certain frames like Harrow.

Gladiator set; mini bloodrush THAT STACKS WITH BLOODRUSH for a total of 230 % CC that stacks with combo counter, i.e. red crits in seconds. Although with melee 3.0 we don't know how good this will be but for now it's amazing

Hunter set; companions deal 150% damage to enemies with slash procs. Not the best simply due to the fact companion AI is trash.

Mecha set; allows spreading of Status effects to nearby enemies. Amazing (if it worked) for CO builds

Tek set; enemies in area are dealt constant DoT damage. Is good for wiping out low level enemies although not as useful in higher levels

Synth set; reload weapons on holstering. May not sound that good but it is easily faster for some weapons to reload this way, such as the gorgon with that 3.0 second reload.

First 3 listed are easily the best and are totally worth it on some builds. Mecha and Tek sets are suppose to bring a change to the way the game is played (not a lot but some). The Hunter and Synth sets are gimmicky but not bad; but not the best either. This is just listing the set bonuses and not even including the individual mod bonuses you get.

And in my opinion i don't like the idea of preventing the use of similar mods. Even if you bump the stats to be the same it will lead to everyone using the set variant as it provides more and further it will reduce some builds; i.e. i use both maxed vitality, steel fiber and Gladiator Resolve and Gladiator Aegis on my inaros for heaps of tankiness.

Further, you will also prevent the use of Augur secret and intensify, Augur reach and stretch, as well as augur message with continuity; reducing a lot of builds range, duration or strength. As well as Augur pact and hornet strike. See what i'm getting at.

Personally i think set mods should be left as is.

the vigilante set isn't really useful for any of the normal content in the game and isnt worth the downgrade of  the mods your replacing, not to mention the absurdly low RNG stacked onto more RNG

the augur set is litteral trash and is doubble bad on harrow, if you are running harrow you want a companion with the guardian precept who will restore all of your shields, the guardian precept wont trigger on harrows 2 with the augur set on and ditto on what midway said, and furthermore there is an aura mod that does what this set does, and that aura mod is trash too.

Gladiator set: yeah you could use this set instead of blood rush or you can not gimp yourself and use blood-rush it costs 4 less slots to use.

Hunter Set, yes the AI is trash and the bonus is nowhere near where it needs to be, given the lackluster ability of your furry companions.  this said the hunter set has some of the best mods for their individual perks.

Mecha set would be completely broken if it wasn't completely broken, an ash could do some damage with this precept CO not required, and a health conversion type mod that doesn't heavily rely on RNGsus that is also completely broken RN.

tek set, yeah im a dog person i havent touched this set it looked like it could be ok but i havent worked on it at all

synth set, gimmicky of the highest order, if this set gave the additional benefit of creating ammo for your holstered weapons out of nothing it would still be a hard maybe

Umbral vitality and fiber also exist for Inaros the build is nothing more than a gimmick if you need more health and armor than what you are getting out of vitality and steel fiber your playing him wrong.

augur message and continuity could be an issue cause primed continuity exists, otherwise as long as the set mods got buffed to the same levels there really isn't a huge Problem, don't worry Warframes will get rivens before long.

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37 minutes ago, JohnKable said:

Shouldn’t be direct upgrades that’s for sure.

but as they are now the set bonuses don’t get even close to make up for the raw stats you lose. On top of that it is very likely that if you want the full set bonus you are going to use atleast a completely useless mod (depending on setup).

the idea is cool and everything, but practically all this mods are strict downgrades of existing mods or even worse mods with very edge utility that is really a sacrifice to slot those in, but don’t compensate that with a greater bonus

example: 

you don’t want an half assed vitality on your frame, usually you don’t even want the regular vitality with more than double the health stat.

and same goes for melee attack speed, fire rate, damage for pistols etc etc

They're only strict downgrades if you don't value the set effect. Like if you don't plan on using a combo/crit build on your melee or just not at all then why would you want the Gladiator mods other than for their stats?

They already offer great opportunities for min-maxing and stat balancing at their values, losing the ability to equip them with their standard counterparts just worsens the system as a whole while retaining that and stacking is just raw power creep.

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7 minutes ago, trst said:

They're only strict downgrades if you don't value the set effect. Like if you don't plan on using a combo/crit build on your melee or just not at all then why would you want the Gladiator mods other than for their stats?

They already offer great opportunities for min-maxing and stat balancing at their values, losing the ability to equip them with their standard counterparts just worsens the system as a whole while retaining that and stacking is just raw power creep.

My point is that the “good ones” are strict downgrades, the worst ones are garbage fire.

as stated in my second post I would be fine with that IF they had incremental bonus stats. As now are just very lackluster dual stat mods, with incremental set bonuses you could even think of using an almost useless mod just for the increased bonus.

as now you can fit them just for minmaxing, but still the tradeoff is just plain bad. Also you shouldnÂ’t have any set bonus for having one, that really makes no sense.

umbral mods atleast work in a proper way -they work the same way but at least they double dip from the bonus since the more set mods you have, greater the bonus AND you also have more mods affected by it

Edited by JohnKable
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vor 4 Stunden schrieb AndouRaiton:

Augur set; gain overshields from ability use. Very useful for certain frames like Harrow.

Augur set only grants you overshield once. If you could get max overshields with the set, then it would be fine. And Harrow defenitly doesn´t need this, that´s what his 1. ability is used for.

Most sets are just a littel nice gimmick, but not worth to use it in the long run.

@OP: What exactly do you expect from DE now, if you ( like so many others ) can´t be bothered to post in the right subforum?

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Just now, peterc3 said:

More drain is not a sufficient downside to introducing mods that fully eclipse the regular versions of mods and include a set effect.

Primed mods are there for that job. Set mods should just give proper set bonuses for crippling your setups with subpar versions of already existing mods.
its just my opionion but right now bonuses arent even close to be worth it. And again, its really stupid that a single mod gives set bonus. Those are just bad  dual stat mods in disguise

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  • 1 month later...
On 2018-11-18 at 8:35 AM, JohnKable said:

Shouldn’t be direct upgrades that’s for sure.

but as they are now the set bonuses don’t get even close to make up for the raw stats you lose. On top of that it is very likely that if you want the full set bonus you are going to use atleast a completely useless mod (depending on setup).

the idea is cool and everything, but practically all this mods are strict downgrades of existing mods or even worse mods with very edge utility that is really a sacrifice to slot those in, but don’t compensate that with a greater bonus

example: 

you don’t want an half assed vitality on your frame, usually you don’t even want the regular vitality with more than double the health stat.

and same goes for melee attack speed, fire rate, damage for pistols etc etc

Actually i find they're better than the mod they're 'ripping off' sure +440% health is nice but try 660% health and +240% shields (gladiator resolve vigor auger accord and vitality) sure its 4 mods maybe not a super build plan but the benefits from the sets especially the shield buffs from augur and the crit rate from gladiator i find it easily balances the space it takes up (i use most of the augur set for shield builds with the health mods for precaution) ever tried an allout health build on inaros? It uses the mods from above except the augur stuff is replaced by ability range stuffs for his 1

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Um your wrong. I run gladiator + bloodrush + weeping wounds combos.. awesome builds. Plus i love the vitality + gladiator resolve combo... Really love the umbral vitality + umbral steel fiber + gladiator resolve + gladiator aegis build... Beautiful.

My x6 gladiator set on my wukong makes his irin staff out dps even exalted blade. Vigilant mods are superb as well. Augur set it also really good.

 

I dont agree with u

Edited by (PS4)big_eviljak
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37 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Um your wrong. I run gladiator + bloodrush + weeping wounds combos.. awesome builds. Plus i love the vitality + gladiator resolve combo... Really love the umbral vitality + umbral steel fiber + gladiator resolve + gladiator aegis build... Beautiful.

My x6 gladiator set on my wukong makes his irin staff out dps even exalted blade. Vigilant mods are superb as well. Augur set it also really good.

 

I dont agree with u

Of course those are mods and do SOMETHING but saying that you can achieve some decent builds with it doesnt deny the fact you can achieve many many better builds using those slots for anything else.
Survivability mods are already borderline useful in their base state (440% of base stats) and if you play half decently you dont need those at all. A sub-par version of those mods with a minor side bonus can be useful, fun, allows build diversity etc, but its not good enough for MOST players.
Im glad you enjoy it, end you should stick to that. But for most players thats not enough

Dont get me wrong, mod sets dont need to be top tier uber meta, but im still convinced they could get some kind of buff. Expecially (and thats my main point) a better scaling mod bonus. Since fitting 4 mods is much harder than fitting just one, the bonus shouldnt be 4x. But something like 8x since you are giving up alot for those slots

and that would still keep mods sets well far from being OP

-also i alrady said that umbra set is the only set that has a properly working bonus since its incremental. every added mod boosts the stats of one more mod. 1 mod=nothing 2 mods=2 mods boosted 3 mods=3 mods boosted even further

Edited by JohnKable
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1 minute ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

I like adding glad mods to my builds... Dont want them replacing mods we already have. Glad resolve + vitality + vigor + augur accord + redirection on harrow, revenant, zephyr, chroma and a slew of other frames is badass to say the least.

being it replacing or adding is either way a poor choice. unless sticking to enemies lvl 100 tops, then anything will work

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I think Plains set mods and their bonuses were added for newer players mostly. Easy to max, most of them are easy to farm... Vets get something to experiment with too. If only the drop rates for gold ones were less brutal, they would be perfect. Thankfully, Vallis mods are easy to farm. If only companions would stop running in one place and start attacking enemies... grrr.

Anyway, I am not sure if upgrading set mods to an end game levels of OP is a good idea. That niche is more suited for something like Umbral mods dropped from a Sentient boss, is it not?

They are ok as it is. Well, Augur puzzles me. Mods themselves? Good. But the bonus... Meh. IIRC, Plains sets were created then DE played with the shield gating, right? And since they dropped that idea it is what it is. Or am I missing something and shields are useful?

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6 minutes ago, rand0mname said:

I think Plains set mods and their bonuses were added for newer players mostly. Easy to max, most of them are easy to farm... Vets get something to experiment with too. If only the drop rates for gold ones were less brutal, they would be perfect. Thankfully, Vallis mods are easy to farm. If only companions would stop running in one place and start attacking enemies... grrr.

Anyway, I am not sure if upgrading set mods to an end game levels of OP is a good idea. That niche is more suited for something like Umbral mods dropped from a Sentient boss, is it not?

They are ok as it is. Well, Augur puzzles me. Mods themselves? Good. But the bonus... Meh. IIRC, Plains sets were created then DE played with the shield gating, right? And since they dropped that idea it is what it is. Or am I missing something and shields are useful?

Adaptation + augur set bonus = Shields are good yes.

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7 минут назад, (PS4)big_eviljak сказал:

Adaptation + augur set bonus = Shields are good yes.

The more mechanics I learn in this game, the more I do not know. Hope it is not a bug.

I think I know what I am going to do tonight! Mag melee tiiiime!

Edit: toxin damage bypasses Adaptation?

Edited by rand0mname
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