Leechers

[ghoffman1928]

So I just got done reading the entire Terms of Use and the entire End User Licence Agreement. Neither of them mentioned anything about leeching being reprimandable yet the general consensus is that we are supposed to report leechers and DE will reprimand them.

discuss

[Melbourne404]

It is extraordinary that anyone would read the entire Terms of Use and EULA.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

It has been discussed over and over. And yes, having in account the terms and EULA. Now it's up to DE to make a change happen, since as you just proved the community has already spoken about this time and time over, and will keep bringing it up until it's fixed. Which I don't mind tbh.

Edited November 19, 2018 by (PS4)Pauloluisx

[Toran]

There's only one situation where leechers can piss me off:
Orb Vallis bounty missions with extractors.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

4 minutes ago, Toran said:

There's only one situation where leechers can piss me off:
Orb Vallis bounty missions with extractors.

How so? I'm just curious about what I might face soon since I usually carry my team of randoms and can't be bothered to leave and return because of it... I might as well go prepared to leave or solo.

[HorridaMessor]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Pauloluisx said:

How so? I'm just curious about what I might face soon since I usually carry my team of randoms and can't be bothered to leave and return because of it... I might as well go prepared to leave or solo.

Extra people - extra extractors:

1 person = 2 simultanious extractors

2 persons = 3

3 persons = 4

and 4 persons = 5 simultanious extractors.

And to get the extra rewards from bounty stage you need to not let ANY extractor be detroyed.

[Erytroxylin]

3 minutes ago, HorridaMessor said:

Extra people - extra extractors:

1 person = 2 simultanious extractors

2 persons = 3

3 persons = 4

and 4 persons = 5 simultanious extractors.

And to get the extra rewards from bounty stage you need to not let ANY extractor be detroyed.

Similar happening for the crate ones.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

3 minutes ago, HorridaMessor said:

Extra people - extra extractors:

1 person = 2 simultanious extractors

2 persons = 3

3 persons = 4

and 4 persons = 5 simultanious extractors.

And to get the extra rewards from bounty stage you need to not let ANY extractor be detroyed.

Oh snap... With that system I really don't want leeches. Even if I took a Frost my globes are limited for 5 excavators, and I really don't want to do all that effort. Thanks for the tip.

[Dhrekr]

17 minutes ago, ghoffman1928 said:

discuss

What's to discuss?

I mean, you're right. DE doesn't mention leeching specifically. However it says (Section Termination of the EULA): " Digital Extremes may terminate this Agreement at any time for any reason or no reason."

So, basically, we agree that DE can terminate us whenever they feel like, even without any good reason. However, ToC does mention "harassing... abusive... and otherwise objectionable" User Content something we promise not to do, and while it is unclear the relationship between player habits and User Content (as UC is always described as "being posted" or so), these are probably close enough for DE to act against leechers, whose behaviour is indeed, in some way, abusive and objectionable.

[HorridaMessor]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Pauloluisx said:

Oh snap... With that system I really don't want leeches. Even if I took a Frost my globes are limited for 5 excavators, and I really don't want to do all that effort. Thanks for the tip.

Also as mentioned by Erytroxylin, same applies to capture caches. The problem is that with Extractors you can let them be destroyed - you won't get extra reward, but you will get the normal one as long as at least one exractor completed the extraction.

Caches OTOH are nightmare - extra people in a cell = more caches AND Corpus. And to fail this stage you need to let Corpus capture THREE caches. And they capture them faster then an Interception node, all while you need to capture least FIVE if you are solo (and once again - more people = more captures required).

Edited November 19, 2018 by HorridaMessor

[ghoffman1928]

36 minutes ago, Dhrekr said:

What's to discuss?

I mean, you're right. DE doesn't mention leeching specifically. However it says (Section Termination of the EULA): " Digital Extremes may terminate this Agreement at any time for any reason or no reason."

So, basically, we agree that DE can terminate us whenever they feel like, even without any good reason. However, ToC does mention "harassing... abusive... and otherwise objectionable" User Content something we promise not to do, and while it is unclear the relationship between player habits and User Content (as UC is always described as "being posted" or so), these are probably close enough for DE to act against leechers, whose behaviour is indeed, in some way, abusive and objectionable.

Well leeching is not harassment or abuse. “Otherwise objectionable” possibly but that could mean anything from griefing to just beeing a limbo noob as per the definition of “objectionable” 

strangly enough, the way the EULA is worded, I could go out and fish in Orb Vallas during bounties and it is a grey area, however while I do this if a teammate gets pissed and takes any action other than silently reporting (shooting water to disrupt fish, threatening to videotape to name-and-shame, just generally being openly and pro actively annoying about my inaction to do bounties, etc) that action against me could arguably be considered harrasment/abuse and would be a breach of the EULA

[Dhrekr]

2 minutes ago, ghoffman1928 said:

strangly enough, the way the EULA is worded, I could go out and fish in Orb Vallas during bounties and it is a grey area, however while I do this if a teammate gets pissed and takes any action other than silently reporting (shooting water to disrupt fish, threatening to videotape to name-and-shame, just generally being openly and pro actively annoying about my inaction to do bounties, etc) that action against me could arguably be considered harrasment/abuse and would be a breach of the EULA

I mean, you are right, but this is a banal and trivial remark.

The EULA is worded in a way that puts the burden of deciding who's right and who's wrong in the hands of the people at DE. They don't tell you who's showing an abusive behaviour - they decide.

And DE has already made it very clear, through their judgement, where their loyalty lies. They see leeching as an abuse of the game mechanics themselves. They need no reason to ban a player - and leeching is more than reason enough.

[Captain_Fronk]

7 часов назад, ghoffman1928 сказал:

So I just got done reading the entire Terms of Use and the entire End User Licence Agreement

Be gone, demon! 😱

[Toran]

vor 18 Stunden schrieb (PS4)Pauloluisx:

Oh snap... With that system I really don't want leeches. Even if I took a Frost my globes are limited for 5 excavators, and I really don't want to do all that effort. Thanks for the tip.

While you cannot control leech behavior, DE can control the number of extractors and containers for these missions.

With a strong CC character, containers are still ok. Extractors however are especially tedious, as refill drops come in in far too low numbers and you really have to work your ass off if people leech there (not talking about K-Drivers taking their time). My new policy is to let the objective and the rest of the bounty go to hell when this happens. In standing/min you're simply better off finding a new group. Sad but true.

 

[WindigoTG]

There's nothing wrong with leechers.

There's Hek of a lot wrong with the game's balance.

To get rid of leeching the game needs tight balance, one where it would be impossible to leech as it would lead to failure for the whole team, including the leecher.

As of right now, the game is basically a more immersive version of Twitch or another streaming service, where 3 people can watch 1 play and get some drops.

So leechers may leech to their heart's content. My treat. Meanwhile, all the more enemies all for me to kiil.

[Fallen_Echo]

20 hours ago, (PS4)Pauloluisx said:

It has been discussed over and over. And yes, having in account the terms and EULA. Now it's up to DE to make a change happen, since as you just proved the community has already spoken about this time and time over, and will keep bringing it up until it's fixed. Which I don't mind tbh.

The problem is that we have lots of different interpretions on whats leeching and whats not.

People get called leechers for becoming afk (even if they tell the party that they have to), when they dont have enough kills/damage, when they dont bring an offensive frame, when they are limbos, if you dont move fast enough, cant hack well and soo on.

Fortuna is the worst offender because you can enter a free run with the plan to maybe find another fisherman and talk a bit then the joiners initiate a bounty and call you leech when you dont participate.

 

To fix this issue DE would need to instantly teleport everybody to the bounty area when they accept it, close the whole thing down with an energy field what blocks the players from leaving while also removes all kind of minigame looting and hurts anybody who stays in the same spot for more than 10 seconds BUT we all know that the long distances serve the sole purpose that they lenghten the grind so DE wont gonna touch the range aspects and most likely wont gonna do anything like the others too.

 

[--DSP--Jetstream]

Just leave squad, its a feature and solution to leeching in there.

and why the f you're doing full 5 extractor if you know the others are leeching, just hover at your name top left, click leave squad.

The real problems are people who know there's a leecher in squad yet continue to carry them, of course they will continue because it works.

 

[Cuchullin]

Another thing which may have been mentioned before is the relative experience and preparation going into it. For take an arbitration mission or similar ones. You need to have a maxed out frame for arbirtrations but if your a relatively new player to the mode brings gear that isn't fully leveled, doesn't bring the right frame, weapon/ mod composition or just doesn't preform up to a certain standard even if they genuinely intent to give it their all they can be called leechers. It's reasonable to expect certain standards when going into missions like these and there's nothing technically wrong with that but my personal problem is the players on the extremes of either end of the spectrum one new newbie side you have people woefully under-equipped and running around like a headless chicken and on the other you have a certain elitism attitude telling the former to get good. This may be an over exaggeration but this is just my opinion. Fortunately most of the community are pretty understanding about it but I still get where both sides are coming as a middle of the road(ish) average at best player

[Melbourne404]

What's the purpose of this thread, I wonder? Are you trying to establish that it is alright for leechers to leech and criticising them is actually harrassment and against EULA? 

You seem to be trying very hard to convince us that leeching is allowed and people who act against them are actually the ones in the wrong.

[Berserkerkitten]

Eh, that discussion is as old as Warframe itself. And since nobody ever came up with a solution that makes everyone happy, I just play solo and/or with loved ones. Or am simply gonna accept a certain amount of AFKers if I feel crazy enough to PUG it.

[DeMonkey]

Would afking not be considered "exploiting"? 

I mean, you're getting rewards by taking advantage of a system not intended by the Devs, i.e. not actually playing the game at all whilst taking up a squad slot.

[KIREEK]

8 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Would afking not be considered "exploiting"? 

I mean, you're getting rewards by taking advantage of a system not intended by the Devs, i.e. not actually playing the game at all whilst taking up a squad slot.

But you understand, some players (especially those who afk or are prone to afk) do not and will make all sort of excuses such as "afk isn't against rules", "but i was killing with my 4","i'm using chat" and many many others.

The solution (as many request) already exists and is effective, you just don't hear much about it because shaming in public is something many don't do, or they might quit warframe, worst case scenario and they were suspended.

[Birkenhoff]

Don't you guys get bored by warming up  the same topic every few days?

[Cuchullin]

11 minutes ago, Birkenhoff said:

Don't you guys get bored by warming up  the same topic every few days?

Play Warframe and browse the forums long enough and you see these are recurring threads.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

4 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

The problem is that we have lots of different interpretions on whats leeching and whats not.

People get called leechers for becoming afk (even if they tell the party that they have to), when they dont have enough kills/damage, when they dont bring an offensive frame, when they are limbos, if you dont move fast enough, cant hack well and soo on.

Fortuna is the worst offender because you can enter a free run with the plan to maybe find another fisherman and talk a bit then the joiners initiate a bounty and call you leech when you dont participate.

 

To fix this issue DE would need to instantly teleport everybody to the bounty area when they accept it, close the whole thing down with an energy field what blocks the players from leaving while also removes all kind of minigame looting and hurts anybody who stays in the same spot for more than 10 seconds BUT we all know that the long distances serve the sole purpose that they lenghten the grind so DE wont gonna touch the range aspects and most likely wont gonna do anything like the others too.

 

That's very true. I usually don't complain about it unless it's really blatant, and I believe I might even be a part of the problem. I say this because of two things; Firstly, I am willing to tolerate a mild absence by an afk player if he either doesn't take long, or if he warns the team about it. I also do this if I really must to, otherwise I'll just leave the team at the first chance, so not to hinder them. On other side I'm also the "tired veteran" who can't be bothered to leave a mission just because there's one afk'er, I know I'm there for myself and I'll just carry until I'm personally done with whatever goal I have. And if I am cleaning rooms in a team of newbies, well, can't really complain about them not contributing because I'm not giving them a chance to.

As you said, it is indeed a very subjective topic, and I can see why DE is so reluctant. If they make the wrong move it could mean a lot of bans and people leaving them game. All it'd take is for them to be too severe for the community to handle.