Less New Frames More Gameplay Changes

[joshiesk8s]

Am I the only one on here that feels like DE needs to slow down with the new frames and work more on changing up the gameplay? Fortuna itself is definitely refreshing but the rest of universe I feel needs major revamping. The mission themselves just feel so repetitive after a while on the other planets. Maybe add more variety by adding missions that are unique for each planet? Like desert tomb raiding missions for Mars or under water missions in Uranus where you have to repair important machinery while fighting off enemies trying to undo your work. Heck, Boss missions that are so hard that teams are mandatory in order to defeat them would also be pretty cool.

[LupisV0lk]

No.

The community needs to lay off DE and let the experts do the job they studied for.

[Atsia]

No you're not the first, this is one of the oldest discussion topics we have. DE is always working on revamping old content, but they've already well established that they need to put out new content of they want to stay alive. And as we've seen from the first half off this year,  this will just lead to another resurgence of content drought threads,  since reworks and fixes aren't content in the eyes of the vocal minority. 

[Syasob]

I hope DE has separate teams for creating new frames and reworking gameplay.

Asking for gameplay changes instead of new frames is like asking a bus driver to sell more tickets.

[trst]

They need to do both to keep the game running; too many players stop playing between updates for them to stop making new content. Plus a lot of the community is old enough to either have nothing left to spend money on that isn't new content or just doesn't want anything they don't have yet.

 

Though as far as what is on the horizon we know that melee 3.0 is coming some time early next year and the Saturn (Corpus gas planet) tileset is getting reworked soon which will be the first tileset to properly utilize movement 2.0. There is also pets 2.0 but no information on that front yet and damage 3.0 which was scrapped but still expected eventually.

[Space0ddity]

playing a video game?

but i'm playing this butt simulator to avoid doing that one thing

[DreisterDino]

Considering new frames, i have the feeling they run out of ideas (lets see what Baruk has to offer though)

The last 3 new frames we got were all kinda boring in my opinion.

Some looked good in concept (like Revenant) but turned out to be a little boring. Some might like Revenant, but in the end its only a little variation on what we got.

 

There are lots of Fanconcepts that are really interesting, and maybe they should take a look there every now and then.

Also, why does the 4 always has to be either a massive CC or massive Damagedealing ability?

I think there are lots of possibilies to invent something we havent seen before but could still be really useful.

[O2D3nTe]

1 hour ago, LupisV0lk said:

No.

The community needs to lay off DE and let the experts do the job they studied for.

So many things are wrong with that statement that I don't even know where to start.

- Studying doesn't mean much. I've seen plenty of people who got a degree but are bad at their job. Going to school is about being able to learn and repeat stuff, it's far away from what you need to succeed in most jobs. That's true for game development, even software development as a whole.

- Even experts ask their customers (or potential customers) what they want and what they think about whatever product they're designing. Games are not different, it's even more essential than in many other industries. Do you have psychic powers ? Because as far as I know the rest of the world doesn't, and people have to tell us what they think, we can't guess it.

- Studying game development doesn't mean you're good at making fun and engaging games. We're getting into the realm of creativity, it's not something you can simply teach to everyone.

 

1 hour ago, trst said:

They need to do both to keep the game running; too many players stop playing between updates for them to stop making new content. Plus a lot of the community is old enough to either have nothing left to spend money on that isn't new content or just doesn't want anything they don't have yet. 

  

Though as far as what is on the horizon we know that melee 3.0 is coming some time early next year and the Saturn (Corpus gas planet) tileset is getting reworked soon which will be the first tileset to properly utilize movement 2.0. There is also pets 2.0 but no information on that front yet and damage 3.0 which was scrapped but still expected eventually.

I think you're looking at it the wrong way. The conclusion here is not "we should keep adding new content like crazy because it brings back players", but "why the hell are all players leaving the game so fast ?".

The game currently has a ton of content, but most of it becomes irrelevant after you've done it a few time. There is no need to attract new players every 6 months with a shiny new big update if your players don't leave in the first place.

It's an over simplification, obviously we need new content added on a regular basis, but right now the old content is an untapped gold mine. It's there, the planets/tiles/enemies/etc exist, we have years of feedback from players about what's working, what's not and what could be improved. Going over those would greatly improve the overall quality of the game, especially for newer players, they have to experience all the content, even the most unpolished forgotten stuff that no one plays anymore because we already farmed and forgot about it.

We've been told PoE would get the Fortuna treatment at some point, that's a good starting point. ESO need to be looked at, it has a lot of potential but is frustrating for most players in its current state. Archwing missions are hated by a lot of players, but the game mode has so much potential. We all believe Railjack will come with an Archwing rework, but we're not sure of anything. Does anyone play defection outside of completing the star chart and farming for Harrow ? What about infested salvage once you farmed Nidus ? How come even today the drop rate of power cells in excavation is still bad (especially in solo) ?

The game has a huge potential, but it's ignored in the name of adding new content all the time.

[LupisV0lk]

34 minutes ago, O2D3nTe said:

So many things are wrong with that statement that I don't even know where to start.

- Studying doesn't mean much. I've seen plenty of people who got a degree but are bad at their job. Going to school is about being able to learn and repeat stuff, it's far away from what you need to succeed in most jobs. That's true for game development, even software development as a whole.

- Even experts ask their customers (or potential customers) what they want and what they think about whatever product they're designing. Games are not different, it's even more essential than in many other industries. Do you have psychic powers ? Because as far as I know the rest of the world doesn't, and people have to tell us what they think, we can't guess it.

- Studying game development doesn't mean you're good at making fun and engaging games. We're getting into the realm of creativity, it's not something you can simply teach to everyone.

There's a old saying "Too many cooks spoil the broth"

Better take that to heart Mr. Backseat Game Developer.

[O2D3nTe]

1 minute ago, LupisV0lk said:

There's a old saying "Too many cooks spoil the broth"

Better take that to heart Mr. Backseat Game Developer.

I'm a software developer, not games though. Anyway you seem both arrogant and ignorant, so there is no point in discussing.

[Sajochi]

2 hours ago, O2D3nTe said:

I'm a software developer, not games though. Anyway you seem both arrogant and ignorant, so there is no point in discussing.

Excellent attitude and definitely a good way to defend your point /s

Here's the thing, everyone, we got a bunch of fixes this year, we're getting some content soon and the new content sometimes comes with upgrades to old systems (Railjack will come with improvements to spacewing, the nodachi melee with melee 3.0, Fortuna laying the artistic groundwork for the corpus gas planets.) The issue isn't that we're getting too much content. Hell, the numerous content drought threads we got over the past year already proves that wrong (such an annoying time, no discussion could be had because everyone flocked to those threads).

DE has said they do both, and will continue to do both, shifting focus where needed. Our job in this is to provide feedback and offer suggestions. Telling the devs what they should prioritize is not the way to go. Instead make a compelling argument on the system you want improved that may move it up the priority list. One of us will eventually cause that to happen,  and it's been done many times before. 

Also, be sure to post in the relevant feedback section. General discussion is not the place and has never been the place. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

hopefully DE will consider addign a little more focus on revamping and reworks once all of Fortuna is out of the way. sadly it would mean lots of people screeching about "content drought" again..

[Marekthejester]

Players : DE, we're angry, stop making new thing and take the time to rework existing content !

DE : *Slow down new content release and start doing reworks*

Players : DE, we're angry, stop reworking things and make new content, enough of content drought !

See where this is going...

I'll also add this : 

Pick only two of these three

-Frequent new content

-Quality content

-Rework of existing content

Which will you chose ?

[peterc3]

4 hours ago, Marekthejester said:

Which will you chose ?

All three because DE is obviously bad and they just choose not to have infinite time and money to do things.

[joshiesk8s]

On 2018-11-20 at 5:28 AM, Marekthejester said:

Players : DE, we're angry, stop making new thing and take the time to rework existing content !

DE : *Slow down new content release and start doing reworks*

Players : DE, we're angry, stop reworking things and make new content, enough of content drought !

See where this is going...

I'll also add this : 

Pick only two of these three

-Frequent new content

-Quality content

-Rework of existing content

Which will you chose ?

I never suggested they need to stop making new content. Such an idea would put them out of business. Why pick and choose? That only limits the potential? All 3 are totally doable if each task gets assigned to different teams. I'm not here to discredit their hard work. I'm here for feedback. Feedback from communities plays a vital part in fixing flaws and ultimately makes games adapt for the better.

[joshiesk8s]

On 2018-11-19 at 11:57 PM, trst said:

They need to do both to keep the game running; too many players stop playing between updates for them to stop making new content. Plus a lot of the community is old enough to either have nothing left to spend money on that isn't new content or just doesn't want anything they don't have yet.

 

Though as far as what is on the horizon we know that melee 3.0 is coming some time early next year and the Saturn (Corpus gas planet) tileset is getting reworked soon which will be the first tileset to properly utilize movement 2.0. There is also pets 2.0 but no information on that front yet and damage 3.0 which was scrapped but still expected eventually.

I can't wait for melee 3.0. I really hope it makes the mechanics of the combos much smoother. Some are just really awkward.

 

On 2018-11-20 at 4:26 AM, Sajochi said:

Excellent attitude and definitely a good way to defend your point /s

Here's the thing, everyone, we got a bunch of fixes this year, we're getting some content soon and the new content sometimes comes with upgrades to old systems (Railjack will come with improvements to spacewing, the nodachi melee with melee 3.0, Fortuna laying the artistic groundwork for the corpus gas planets.) The issue isn't that we're getting too much content. Hell, the numerous content drought threads we got over the past year already proves that wrong (such an annoying time, no discussion could be had because everyone flocked to those threads).

DE has said they do both, and will continue to do both, shifting focus where needed. Our job in this is to provide feedback and offer suggestions. Telling the devs what they should prioritize is not the way to go. Instead make a compelling argument on the system you want improved that may move it up the priority list. One of us will eventually cause that to happen,  and it's been done many times before. 

Also, be sure to post in the relevant feedback section. General discussion is not the place and has never been the place. 

Thanks for the recommendation! I didn't realize their was a designated area to post feedback. I'll be sure to do that in the future.

[Methanoid]

slow down new frames?  might as well ask mech warrior online to stop rolling out new mech packs at £20-£50+ each.

[SenorClipClop]

On 2018-11-20 at 3:26 PM, joshiesk8s said:

The mission themselves just feel so repetitive after a while on the other planets. Maybe add more variety by adding missions that are unique for each planet? Like desert tomb raiding missions for Mars or under water missions in Uranus where you have to repair important machinery while fighting off enemies trying to undo your work.

These ideas sound like nice additions for new missions, but every mission type is going to feel repetitive and boring after you do it a few times and learn all its ins and outs. The only way to prevent this is to release new varieties of mission at a speed that nears the speed at which players complete them. Which is impossible, since consumption is always faster than production. What takes an hour to read takes far longer than an hour to write.

[ClapTrap007]

On 2018-11-20 at 9:33 AM, Atsia said:

No you're not the first, this is one of the oldest discussion topics we have

 

On 2018-11-20 at 9:33 AM, Atsia said:

this will just lead to another resurgence of content drought threads,  since reworks and fixes aren't content in the eyes of the vocal minority. 

So true and yet nothing here makes any sense!

It's one of the oldest topics yet nothing is being done - as we all know DE is famous of having great ideas and not following on them. But rather leave them to rot lost and forgotten!

Vocal Minority makes me cringe so hard! And again it TRUE!!! I see so many gameplay/mechanic/mission/endgame posts reworks and ideas being thrown in the forums and so many of them are super awesome that would make the game so much better but it seems they fall on blind eyes and deaf years. Because I suppose these are just invisible to DE. The only threads they see are the Cosmetics/Praises/Nerfs and more nerfs posts!

A man can dream atleast!

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

On 2018-11-20 at 1:26 AM, joshiesk8s said:

Am I the only one on here that feels like DE needs to slow down with the new frames and work more on changing up the gameplay? Fortuna itself is definitely refreshing but the rest of universe I feel needs major revamping. The mission themselves just feel so repetitive after a while on the other planets. Maybe add more variety by adding missions that are unique for each planet? Like desert tomb raiding missions for Mars or under water missions in Uranus where you have to repair important machinery while fighting off enemies trying to undo your work. Heck, Boss missions that are so hard that teams are mandatory in order to defeat them would also be pretty cool.

largely the ones working on new content like fortuna and ones working on new frames are different groups of people.  its just things like new frames dont take as long to put out that new content does.  its like complaining that the guy running the mile cant finish as fast as guy that ran the 100meter dash its not fair to one going the mile because he has alot more work to do than the other

[Hypernaut1]

12 minutes ago, ClapTrap007 said:

 

So true and yet nothing here makes any sense!

It's one of the oldest topics yet nothing is being done - as we all know DE is famous of having great ideas and not following on them. But rather leave them to rot lost and forgotten!

Vocal Minority makes me cringe so hard! And again it TRUE!!! I see so many gameplay/mechanic/mission/endgame posts reworks and ideas being thrown in the forums and so many of them are super awesome that would make the game so much better but it seems they fall on blind eyes and deaf years. Because I suppose these are just invisible to DE. The only threads they see are the Cosmetics/Praises/Nerfs and more nerfs posts!

A man can dream atleast!

For every "great" idea you see on the forums, the devs probably have 5 great ideas on a notepad somewhere. 

These are professional developers, they develop games for a living. I'm positive there is no shortage of great ideas going around at the studio... The problem is that great ideas take execution. It's easy to come up with a "great ideas" it's much harder to implement it. 

[HorridaMessor]

We just need to clone Pablo at let the clone work on gameplay reworks.

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

38 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

For every "great" idea you see on the forums, the devs probably have 5 great ideas on a notepad somewhere. 

These are professional developers, they develop games for a living. I'm positive there is no shortage of great ideas going around at the studio... The problem is that great ideas take execution. It's easy to come up with a "great ideas" it's much harder to implement it. 

so true and 1/3 to half of those are from players themselves the reasons we have not seen them range from not enought time ontop of current projects that been on todo list longer.  all the way down to they love idea but have not figured out how to make it fit and/or work with the game and lore

 

people need to remember DE is still a comparatively small developer compared to AAA companies sure they could work on as many simpulatnious projects as AAA companies do but they would be single people on each project rather than 10-100 per project other larger companies have.  and we would end up with something that looks like a quilt made by 3 different grandmas at same time.  sure it would look like a complete product but it wouldnt match up and not make much sense when look at whole thing as 1.    Its better to let them keep at what ever rate they do work on projects and have it seem like one game from start to finish and have a large stack of hope to make it fit to pick from for next project than try get it all done at once

Edited November 23, 2018 by (PS4)Cargan2016

[ClapTrap007]

34 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

For every "great" idea you see on the forums, the devs probably have 5 great ideas on a notepad somewhere. 

These are professional developers, they develop games for a living. I'm positive there is no shortage of great ideas going around at the studio... The problem is that great ideas take execution. It's easy to come up with a "great ideas" it's much harder to implement it. 

That is literally what I just said! DE is know for having amazing and great ideas but they never follow up on them. Everything in this game has the potential to be amazing but it lacks that extra mile. That extra polishing touch to make it not so repetitive and boring after you played it for 2 weeks. 

I'd much rather (and that is not only me) have a monthly update on a old mechanic/mission/content in general rather than wait 1 year for a shiny new open world that will take me less than 2 weeks before it gets old! 

You see the reason why I still log from time to time is because I know how much potential this game has. And I want it to be so much more than what it is atm. And all of the content posts I am referring to is basically players saying to DE "hey...we know you trying your best and all..and we love the game we love what you did but it's not enough to keep us playing...see these ideas we have? They are not something radical that will take you a whole year of development but rather a month or a 2 at best and it will keep us in the game for a really long time!" 

This is my point..but all of the focus is:
1)New Content that gets old in 2 weeks tops

2)New Player experiance

3)Cosmetics

I really hope RailJack will be the turning point to where they start revisiting old stuff that needs a little bit to make it exceptional!  

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

5 minutes ago, ClapTrap007 said:

That is literally what I just said! DE is know for having amazing and great ideas but they never follow up on them. Everything in this game has the potential to be amazing but it lacks that extra mile. That extra polishing touch to make it not so repetitive and boring after you played it for 2 weeks. 

I'd much rather (and that is not only me) have a monthly update on a old mechanic/mission/content in general rather than wait 1 year for a shiny new open world that will take me less than 2 weeks before it gets old! 

You see the reason why I still log from time to time is because I know how much potential this game has. And I want it to be so much more than what it is atm. And all of the content posts I am referring to is basically players saying to DE "hey...we know you trying your best and all..and we love the game we love what you did but it's not enough to keep us playing...see these ideas we have? They are not something radical that will take you a whole year of development but rather a month or a 2 at best and it will keep us in the game for a really long time!" 

This is my point..but all of the focus is:
1)New Content that gets old in 2 weeks tops

2)New Player experiance

3)Cosmetics

I really hope RailJack will be the turning point to where they start revisiting old stuff that needs a little bit to make it exceptional!  

frames come out more frequently than content for one simple reason they alot less work to get done and out.  they are likely done by separate teams so the fact that frames coming out does not equate to them neglecting new content.  also just becasue DE hasnt put a great idea they have had into game doesnt mean they just threw whole idea away.  you dont see people getting angry at an artist that doesnt finish a landscape as fast as another artist finsihing a portrait at the same scale becasue the ammount of work is vastly more for the landscape compared to the one just doing a single person