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Status sucks!


Mudfam
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I didn't think I'd be saying this, but yeah, given a choice, status sucks.

Sure, against armour slash is amazing, and high proc rate corrosive is fine, but in general given the choice between a status effect or headshot crits that literally multiply your damage by 10 there's just no comparison.

Kitguns give us this 1:1 choice between status and crit chance + crit multi, without affecting base damage or anything else. These days weapons need to fall into one of these two categories to be comparatively useful:

  •     High crit (and often status too)
  •     High status, huge base damage shotguns or AoE

Status kitguns are clearly neither, they're just insufficient. Status is useful in various ways, but you still need some damage too, it's just not a replacement for it. Death is the best status effect, and crit weapons apply it really, really well. Further, some kitguns are slow, don't do slash damage and/or are otherwise unremarkable, with crit kitguns having built-in crowd-control anyway in the form of guaranteed impact procs (whether you like it or not).

Something needs to be done to balance these options out. I would suggest increasing the base damage of status kitguns to offer a real trade-off between inconsistent status and inconsistent crit and serve as viable alternatives with different roles. They don't need to be on par with crit in terms of kill time, but as it is the divide is absolutely enormous and the status variants are useless.

If you want to see the difference in practice, look at Tactical Potato's videos. He does one on a status catchmoon illustrating how it is useless and compares it to the famously bad Kraken, then another video on a crit catchmoon which is a highly effective, if somewhat flawed, weapon.


Note: turns out some people don't know this, headshots deal double damage, but head crits deal quadruple damage, independently of your crit multiplier. Headshots typically deal ~20 times your base damage on a crit weapon!

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Status only sucks on the Tombfinger and Catchmoon, precisely because they are relatively slow and can't rapidly proc corrosive to destroy armor.

Anyone can easily see that Gaze and Rattleguts can build for status if you want. Gaze can build hybrid, in fact.

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mods for secondary weapons , pistols etc  are heavily favoring  CC + CD  (just  because primed target cracker, pistol gambit exists)    , in addition to having tons of multishot from barred diffusion + lethal torrents and dual stats 60/60 mods already it is obviously better to build for crit > status  since we will have more than enough status already.  unless you really want to hit 90% +  status chance. you are sacrificing too much crit and crit damage already.  I would take around 50~ 70% status chance with max cc +cd  anyday over  90%+  status with really bad cc + cd .

Edited by ifernoian57
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22 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Status only sucks on the Tombfinger and Catchmoon, precisely because they are relatively slow and can't rapidly proc corrosive to destroy armor.

Anyone can easily see that Gaze and Rattleguts can build for status if you want. Gaze can build hybrid, in fact.

Yes, high fire rate means high proc rate which makes status more useful, as stated at the beginning of my post, but in most situations the higher crit versions will still perform best. The more you bias even these weapons towards status the less effective they become.

Tombfinger and Catchmoon status variants are just terrible.

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41 minutes ago, ifernoian57 said:

mods for secondary weapons , pistols etc  are heavily favoring  CC + CD  (just  because primed target cracker, pistol gambit exists)    , in addition to having tons of multishot from barred diffusion + lethal torrents and dual stats 60/60 mods already it is obviously better to build for crit > status  since we will have more than enough status already.  unless you really want to hit 90% +  status chance. you are sacrificing too much crit and crit damage already.  I would take around 50~ 70% status chance with max cc +cd  anyday over  90%+  status with really bad cc + cd .

Just wondering, are you the MR 20 that was trash talking in Fortuna a while ago in the same squad as me?

Your name seems very familiar.

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39 minutes ago, Mudfam said:

Yes, high fire rate means high proc rate which makes status more useful, as stated at the beginning of my post, but in most situations the higher crit versions will still perform best. The more you bias even these weapons towards status the less effective they become.

Tombfinger and Catchmoon status variants are just terrible.

As with all slow firing high damage, of course status is terrible.

However, Vs Augmented Armor/Shields, crit loses to status on fast guns. Things like hunter munitions are just there to convert crit chance to status chance.

Also, Corrosive always scales better than crit vs Armor unless you play a 4 spam Garuda or something

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status is as good on kitguns as it is on any weapon with a slow or fast firing speed depending on what u build...no slow firing weapon is good for corrosive since u need ~20 proccs to fully strip armor, if u so wish. build the right type of weapon and np, its not the kit guns fault if u have a firing speed of ~2 and expect rapid corr proccs....also, there are 3 cathegories of weapons, not just crit and status but also hybrid, of which we actually have many. if u think base dmg alone isnt sufficient build a hybrid one. if ur weapon is not a rapid fire one then use an anti armor frame and an element which has 1 strong procc instead of an element which needs more than 1 procc to be really effective, corrosive namely.

gas on the catchmoon or tombfinger is quite good, radiation also has its purpose, it just doesnt do anything against armor so use the right frame for that or just build a different kitgun. the right tool for the right job~

Edited by Xydeth
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The argument isn't whether status is (circumstantially) useful or whether you can build a good kitgun, or some hypothetical zero status weapon, it's about the real kitgun build options we actually have and whether they are balanced.

Radiation status is pretty useless unless you don't actually plan on killing for some reason, Gas is useful against very select units compared to just doing 10 times more damage. Unlike crit, status cannot even be relied on with weapons like this, because we can only apply one status effect per projectile and the way status is weighed. It's RNG to boot.

We can make up hypotheticals all day long and pretend that Warframe is still a tactical shooter and we don't just expect to instantly wipe out everything on the screen, we can find ways to make up for a weapon's inherent weakness, but the reality is the status versions of these weapons do not measure up to the crit ones, not even close.

These days almost all weapons are crit, usually crit and status, some weren't and got "rebalanced", the very few that still aren't are usually shotguns with stupid amounts of base damage and the highest proc rates of any weapon in the game. If there's anything left, it just doesn't get used.

These status kitguns lie nowhere on that useful spectrum, they're just status weapons without the damage. Without the crit to back it up the damage is pitiful. I was personally looking forward to having a weapon that isn't reliant on crit and isn't a shotgun, these are very disappointing.

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В 20.11.2018 в 14:44, Mudfam сказал:

These status kitguns lie nowhere on that useful spectrum, they're just status weapons without the damage.

yes sadly. i was trying to make a status weapon which would surpass  Mara Detron in terms of damage and overall utility, but status weapons just have too many flaws be it a lack of damage or some other negative factor which make them hard to use or useless in general.

But you can build a crit kitgun which can blow the moon up.

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