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Ivara's sleep arrow time being reduced to a quarter duration instead of the proper half duration on boss-type enemies


BlindStalker
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Lazy update: The bug is actually a really specific type of detail type of bug. Basically, the coding for duration timer on Ivara's sleep arrow is not matching up with the UI whenever it's used on specifically a boss-type enemy (this include sub-boss type enemies like Corpus directors on Orb Vallis or the priority targets on Plains of Eidolon bounties like Aerial commander as example, or even the kubrodons and Vasca Kavats). Using an Ivara with a high duration build (maximum duration build is better) would make this bug more obvious. Fire a sleep arrow from a max duration Ivara onto a boss type character (example: Ambulas) and it will actually wake up before her sleep arrow has officially expired on Quiver's UI. Ivara's sleep arrow timer is being reduced to a quarter duration instead of the proper half duration that is displayed on her quiver arrow UI whenever it's used on a boss type enemy. I will quote Vitalis_Inamorta findings, which confirms my own. Please eventually fix this DE, I get that it's low hanging fruit type of bug, but I really would like to see this fixed eventually for Ivara (I get it, put out the other big bug fires first, come back to the smaller hanging fruit bugs later). Thank you.

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Okay, so after testing I can say a few things.

#1:  The sleep arrows do display a reduced duration on cc-resistant enemies like the corpus lab directors.

#2:  The reduced duration isn't correct for them either, until you've stacked them to maximum CC resistance.  It may display  ten seconds instead of twenty, but they wake up at five, and then at one point five.

#3:  Yes, the sleep arrow timer is bugged on kubrodons.  You are correct.


Old original report (only being kept here for posterity reasons):
Bug: Kubrodons are waking up earlier from Ivara’s sleep arrow, at a quarter of the duration instead of the intended half time duration. Note: We can tell Ivara’s sleep arrows are only supposed to be reduced by half, because the UI timer over sleep arrow is reporting half the duration instead of a quarter duration (compared to other frames with long duration). But the kubrodon is accidentally waking up at a quarter of the duration. For example, I use a 16.7 second duration Ivara on Orb Vallis. If I sleep the kubrodon, the UI timer will say the sleep arrow is active for about 8.4 seconds, however it will bug and the kubrodon is waking up at around 4.175 second mark (even though sleep arrow says its still active for another ~4.2 seconds). Note I do have a video to show this mechanic (but I won’t be able to upload until much later to show this in-game. I will try to get video up later to show in-game).

EDIT: I will mention a max duration (306% duration) Ivara has 30.6 seconds. This is to highlight the bug more evidently.

 

Thank you DE for paying attention to Ivara's sleep timer being quite short in comparison to other frames base ability duration (see my other link below for comparison). It seems to me that DE intends for Ivara's sleep arrows to be reduced by half, instead of a quarter in comparison (which reasonably balances out and compares with Equinox's rest). However, the sleep arrow is bugged, the kubrodon is waking up earlier before the sleep arrow is said to expire. (Times are listed below).

  1. First time sleep arrow is casted on the kubrodon - 30.6 seconds * 0.5 = 15.3 seconds of sleeping time (again it’s bugged, sleep arrows reporting 15.3 seconds, but the kubrodon is waking up at around the ~7.65 second mark)
  2. Second time sleep arrow is casted on the kubrodon - ~15.3 seconds * 0.6 = ~9.18 seconds of sleeping time (again bugged, kubrodon waking up at around ~4.59 second mark)
  3. Third time sleep arrow is casted on the kubrodon - Somewhere close to 3 seconds(?) (hard for me to tell on the UI timer). Again it’s broken, but kubrodon was waking up halfway so it was realistically around 1.4 seconds? (give or take).

From what I can determine, it is bugged, Ivara's sleep arrows are being reduced by a quarter of their time, instead of the intended half time. DE, if you could clarify the rules and mechanics of the kubrodon capture in relation to warframe abilities in the next patch notes, it would be greatly appreciated thank you.

 

Note: if you're wondering why I say "half" and "quarter" in regards to Ivara's sleep arrows, I will link my other thread here (once I've written it up) for explanation and discussion:

 

Edited by BlindStalker
Edit post to further explain the bug in detail.
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Note, here is that video that I promised to show earlier.

This video highlights the bug specifically. First I show Equinox and how the duration mechanics function for kubrodons. Then I show the bug with Ivara's sleep arrow, where the kubrodon wakes up early before the sleep arrow has officially expired. Edit Also Condrocs are bugged too, please watch video all the way, as someone pointed out, sleep arrows are not working condrocs either.

 

Edit: specifically starting from 3:12 is where I highlight the specific bug with Ivara. The kubrodon wakes up before the sleep arrow officially expires.

 

 

Edited by BlindStalker
forgot to write other info
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It's not a bug.  The timer, since it can apply to multiple targets, is not a timer for sleep on the target, it's a timer for the sleep effect on the arrow itself.

The Biz says right out that Kubrodons are resistant to sleep effects.  That's why it takes more than one dart to sleep them, and why they only stay asleep for a fraction of the duration of the arrow.

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On 2019-05-10 at 4:57 PM, Vitalis_Inamorta said:

The Biz says right out that Kubrodons are resistant to sleep effects.  That's why it takes more than one dart to sleep them, and why they only stay asleep for a fraction of the duration of the arrow.

That is not the issue/bug I am trying to draw attention to. I don't care about the sleep arrow duration being reduced on first and subsequent casts on kubrodons, that's not the bug. The bug really is about the kubrodon waking up before Ivara's sleep arrow's duration officially expires on HUD. I am fully aware that kubrodons are resistant to sleeping/frame incapacitating effects, but I am not talking about Kubrodons being resistant to sleep effects. It really is Ivara's sleep arrow timer HUD which is the problem that I'm talking about.

I'll refer to my video that I posted (2nd post), I'll try to explain more concisely what the issue is here again. I specifically wrote a bunch of text on the screen during that video to explain the bug/issue.

In that video I purposely use Equinox first to show that Equinox's sleep HUD timer is functioning perfectly fine compared to Ivara's sleep arrow HUD timer. I use a max duration Equinox build (306% duration) for the video. This gives Equinox a total sleep duration of 67.32 seconds. For the sake of shortening this, I'll only talk only about on first cast (because I've already done all the duration calculations in the video and repeating myself takes forever). So when Equinox first casts her sleep on the kubrodon, her sleep duration will be reduced to 25% of the total duration on your build. So basic calculation 67.32 seconds * 0.25 = 16.83 seconds. The game will round the second downwards, so that on Equinox's HUD sleep timer, it will only display 16 seconds and that is correct. And if you watch the video, that's exactly what happens. The kubrodon stays asleep for exactly 16 seconds for Equinox. Everything is working fine for Equinox no issue here, the HUD timer is correct. 

Now we go to Ivara. in the video I use a max duration Ivara (306% duration). Ivara has a sleep duration of 30.6 seconds. The HUD reports that on first sleep arrow cast on the kubrodon, that the kubrodon should be asleep for 15.3 seconds (it shows 15.3 seconds on my HUD in the video). Ivara's sleep arrow duration is only supposed to be reduced to 50% (I will explain why in a later paragraph). BUT if you watch the video, the Kubrodon actually wakes up at around 8 seconds, but I still have 7 seconds of sleep duration left on the sleep arrow timer HUD for Ivara. What gives? The kubrodon should stay asleep for the full 15.3 seconds! Why is the sleep arrow timer reporting 15.3 seconds when it is incorrect for Ivara? Why is it wrong? What purpose does it hold to tell the player the incorrect amount of time left on the HUD? Note again to compare, Equinox's sleep HUD timer was correct, the kubrodon was asleep for the full 16 seconds that was displayed on her HUD sleep timer. So why is Ivara's sleep arrow timer reporting the incorrect time? Why was the kubrodon not asleep for the full 15.3 second that was reported on the sleep arrow HUD? To further draw an example analogy, say you mod Loki for maximum duration so that his his invisibility timer is 36.72 seconds, then you activate his invisibility and suddenly, his cloaking stops but you look at the HUD timer for invisibility and it says you've still got 9 seconds left, but the cloaking stopped. Wouldn't you think that sounds like a bug if it had occurred? That's the situational case that is occurring right now with Ivara's sleep arrow on kubrodons. Ability Z should last for X amount of seconds displayed on the HUD. I expect my ability HUD timers to work correctly, they work correctly with other frames.

Does it make sense?

Now about Ivara's sleep arrow HUD timer being reduced to only 50% compared to 25% instead. Frames with non-damaging incapacitating CC abilities are split up into two groups when incapacitating a kubrodon. Based on the frame's duration, if the base duration is like 22 seconds or higher (examples would be Equinox, Revenant, Nyx), then their duration is reduced to 25%/15%/5% of the original duration (on 1st/2nd/3rd time casts). If your base duration is like 15 seconds or less (so examples include Harrow, maybe Excalibur? hard to tell with Excal cause he has no HUD timer. Ivara is supposed to be in this group but her HUD timer is of course bugged, and with a special note about Trinity), then their duration gets reduced to roughly 50%/30%/10% of the original duration (on 1st/2nd/3rd time casts). Special note about Trinity is that her duration isn't actually reduced on subsequent casts on the target with Well of Life, it actually stays at a flat 50% duration every time you cast it on the kubrodon. I know all this info because yes, I did a bunch of testing with non-damaging CC abilities a while back (Vauban's CC had issues and I could never get it to reliably hold the kubrodon down in place, and same issue with Titania). The HUD for sleep arrow timer displayed 15.3 seconds on the video for my max duration Ivara, so the HUD was intentionally coded for 50% reduction only, though the underlying code for sleep arrow itself does does not correlate with HUD, when used on the kubrodon.

PS I am aware this is a "low-hanging fruit" bug, but it's the principle about getting it fixed that means more to me. I am willing to wait though, since it's low hanging. Although, now that I think about it, I think the kubrodon is coded much like a boss-type character, that's why it gets duration reduction from CC abilities. But I also observe this same issue with Ivara if I were to sleep only a boss character, IIRC from past experiences, boss characters have woken up as well before the HUD sleep arrow timer officially expired and when they are the only target put asleep. So I think, Ivara's sleep arrow HUD timer has been incorrect for a long while. I get the feeling it was copy-pasted from Equinox's ability (coding wise), but like there was an attempt in design to actually have Ivara only be reduced by 50% rather than 25% in comparison (as some sort of balancing attempt(?) since Ivara's base sleep duration is extremely short in comparison to Equinox. 10 seconds vs 22 seconds). But that's just a theory from me.

On 2019-05-10 at 4:57 PM, Vitalis_Inamorta said:

The timer, since it can apply to multiple targets, is not a timer for sleep on the target, it's a timer for the sleep effect on the arrow itself.

This sentence, I don't think I understand what you mean. But I think I get what situations you're trying to convey. If you're talking about in context, the nuances about Ivara's sleep arrow those I understand.

(For these examples below: assume that I am using an Ivara with 214% duration - so sleep time of 21.4 seconds).

1. Situation 1 - Say I have 3 corpus techs gathered up in a group and I fire a single sleep arrow at them. The sleep arrow HUD timer will report that they're all asleep for 21.4 seconds and these guys will definitely stay asleep for the full 21.4 seconds because they're trash mob characters (i.e. - they're not boss type characters).

2. Situation 2 - Say I have 3 corpus techs and 1 vivisect director gathered up in a group and I fire a single sleep arrow at them. Okay, we know that the vivisect director is a boss type character (because he's an assassination target), so I expect him to be resistant to sleep arrows because back in update 18.5, Ivara was updated so that 'Sleep Arrow now has diminishing returns against boss-type enemies'. So I expect the vivisect director to wake up earlier from sleep arrow (because he's a boss type character), before his corpus tech buddies. However, if I have any trash mob characters gathered up in my group (3 corpus techs in this case), then the sleep arrow HUD timer will report the full sleep arrow duration of 21.4 seconds. Sleep arrow HUD timer is not technically wrong here because I've got trash mob characters sleeping in the group. It is just that there is no room on the HUD timer for it to tell me the sleep duration of the vivisect character separately as it can only report on one duration timer (and in this case, it defaults to the sleep duration of the trash mob characters sleep duration).

3. Situation 3 - Say I have 1 vivisect director gathered up in a group and I fire a single sleep arrow at him. Okay we already know he's a boss type character, but this time, since he's the only enemy character that I can sleep, I expect the sleep arrow HUD timer to report a different shortened time. Specifically, a reduced time to signify he's a boss type character and he's resistant to sleep. So I don't expect the full 21.4 seconds sleep duration to display on the HUD timer, when it's just a boss type character being put to sleep. Actually, I suspect the vivisect director is going to probably wake up before the sleep arrow timer officially expires on HUD, just like the kubrodon. But that's just a guess from me.

4. Situation 4 - Say I have 3 corpus techs gathered up in a group and I fire a single sleep arrow at them. But 5 seconds later, a new group of 3 corpus techs spawn and I fire a single sleep arrow at that new group. In this situation I expect the sleep arrow HUD timer to report the duration of the first group (21.4 seconds), then when I fired the second sleep arrow on the new group, I expect the sleep arrow HUD timer to reset again due to the new group. The sleep arrow HUD timer can only report the duration of the last slept group on the HUD, so it resets every time you hit a new enemy with sleep arrow.

I'm sorry for all the typing, I've had to explain what I'm trying to highlight as the the bug/issue here with Ivara's sleep arrow HUD timer for a few times now. It's not Kubrodons being resistant to CC sleep/incapacitating frame abilities that I'm concerned about. It's actually specifically Ivara's sleep arrow HUD timer being inconsistent with boss-type characters, they wake up before Ivara's sleep arrow HUD timer officially expires on them. That's the bug I'm talking about.

Edited by BlindStalker
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You seem to be under the illusion that I did not understand you the first time.  You are incorrect.  I understood you.  I also immediately parsed for multiple possible use scenarios and figured out why I think it works the way it does, and why I think that it is not bugged.

The sleep duration is for the magnitude of the arrow effect itself.  Think about it for a second.  What if you hit a kubrodon and something else with the same sleep arrow?  It can't show the correct duration for both, so it only shows the duration for the applied effect before entity-specific modifiers, like the kubrodon sleep resistance.  This might appear like your situation #2, but your explanation is not actually how I would expect it works.

Equinox's is initially single target.  That's why it shows the effect on the single target after the modifiers for that type of target.  It won't necessarily have an accurate display for other things within radius of the target.

Now you could test as per your situation #3.  If the sleep arrow does show the reduced duration that some other sleep resistant enemy actually stays asleep, then indeed it is bugged and not working correctly on the kubrodon.  However, I strongly suspect that it will work the same way on any sleep resistant enemy as on the kubrodon.

Tell you what.  I'll go test it on a vivisect director ASAP and report back.

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Okay, so after testing I can say a few things.

#1:  The sleep arrows do display a reduced duration on cc-resistant enemies like the corpus lab directors.

#2:  The reduced duration isn't correct for them either, until you've stacked them to maximum CC resistance.  It may display  ten seconds instead of twenty, but they wake up at five, and then at one point five.

#3:  Yes, the sleep arrow timer is bugged on kubrodons.  You are correct.

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@Vitalis_Inamorta I'm sorry for the misunderstanding and the really long type up above. But at the same time, I think it helps further explain this bug so others reading this thread understand the issue more easily, at least I hope.

Sorry about the low quality of the video I made it's really grainy and hard to see, but during that test video with Ivara and the kubrodon I could tell on the mini-map in the top left corner of the screen that the kubrodon was the only target within the area that could be affected by the sleep arrow, because he appears on the mini-map as the only enemy red triangle. (It's hard to see in the video, I get that).

Thank you for doing the testing, I meant to go test it after I wrote it up, but I didn't really have time to check. But you've seen with your own eyes now, the sleep arrow timer is definitely bugged on both kubrodons and corpus lab directors. I'll have to do some checking later, but I'm getting the feeling the kubrodon is coded like a boss-type character, same with the corpus lab directors. I need to go shoot some sleep arrows at other bosses to test my guess that this might be a sleep arrow timer bug occurring only on boss-type characters issue later. Again, thank you for double checking my theoretical situations and reporting back, I appreciate it.

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Self-reminder bump. I need to probably fix up this bug report thread (I just don't have time yet), but it's actually likely that this isn't a Kubrodon specific thing, but rather, a boss/sub-boss specific bug thing between sleep arrows and bosses.

Really light testing earlier on something like the Ambulas boss, with a max duration Ivara, revealed the Ambulas waking up early before sleep arrow duration officially expired. It will take me a while to gather up footage, because I don't have a video editor program to put clips together and record things separately now. I'll fix up this bug report thread later, whenever I get the time.

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Self-reminder bump, sleep arrow timer is still bugged on bosses/sub-bosses as of update 25.7.5, please remember to fix DE (I'll update this thread later, it's not actually just Kubrodons, it's actually all bosses/sub-bosses that exihibit this sleep arrow bug. More noticeable on high duration Ivara builds).

Edited by BlindStalker
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Self-reminder bump, sleep arrow timer is still bugged on bosses/sub-bosses as of update 'The Old Blood: Prime Vault 26.0.8.1', please remember to fix DE (it's actually all bosses/sub-bosses that exhibit this sleep arrow bug. More noticeable on maximum duration Ivara builds).

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