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Warframe "sleeping"/"incapacitating" abilities are reduced by a quarter or half duration when capturing kubrodons (Equinox, Revenant, Ivara (bugged) etc)


BlindStalker
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Currently there's a bug with Ivara's sleep arrows. Based off of in-game testing, it seems Ivara's sleep arrows' duration is only meant to be reduced by half instead of a quarter (I think this is intended because Ivara's sleep arrows have a low base duration and cannot be modded to be that high, only 30.6 seconds at max duration. In comparison to Equinox's rest (67 seconds), Revenant's enthrall (91 seconds)).

Link here about that:

Main analysis and overview discussion here:

From what we can gather, DE tried to implement an interesting mechanic where kubrodons seem to be more “resistant” to the duration of warframe abilities than other animals. I.e. kubrodons “wake up” faster compared to other animals under the same warframe abilities. I tried to get an idea of the “rough” times for each frame ability casted on a kubrodon and noticed that the time is reduced after each cast and seems to be “hard-capped” by the 3rd cast. Humour me for a bit, but say for example, you casted a “sleep” ability on a kubrodon and didn’t capture it instantly after the 1st ability cast and you needed to cast the “sleep” ability again. Well, the timer on the 2nd ability cast is actually reduced by a certain amount. Now humour me again and say, you didn’t capture the kubrodon on the 2nd ability cast and need to recast the “sleep” ability for a 3rd time. The timer on the 3rd ability cast is reduced even more (however, it might be hard-capped so that it can’t be reduced any further after this 3rd cast. A 4th, 5th, 6th…cast results in the same time given at the 3rd cast). I have not quite nailed down the pattern, but I think it roughly follows something like this (there is probably some rounding going on in the code):

1.      1st ability cast: Your warframe’s ability duration (after mods) * 0.25 = actual time the kubrodon will be “sleeping”/”incapacitated” for. (i.e. – duration of ability reduced to a quarter of its time).

2.      2nd ability cast: the duration from the 1st cast * 0.6

3.      3rd ability cast: the duration from the 2nd cast * 0.3  (it seems to hard cap here, any subsequent cast gets this amount of duration).

 

The above formula looks confusing, let me actually use the real numbers from a frame so that it makes more sense. For this example, we’ll use a max duration Equinox (306% duration), we get 67 seconds of rest time (its actually around 68 seconds, but I don’t have the exact in-game number infront of me, so I am roughly rounding). Let’s go over this with an example of Equinox’s rest:

 

1. 67 seconds * 0.25 = ~16.75 seconds of time that the kubrodon will be asleep for. (this is roughly consistent in-game currently)

2. ~16.75 seconds * 0.6 = ~ 10.05 seconds of sleep time on the kubrodon

3. ~10.05 seconds * 0.3 = ~3.015 seconds of sleep time on the kubrodon.  (it hard caps for each subsequent cast after this).

(That is currently, what happens in-game).

Note: this also applies to other warframe abilities that “incapacitate” the animal. For example, Revenant’s enthrall. A max duration Revenant will come in at a ridiculously long 91 seconds of duration (again a little bit higher, I’m rough rounding) for enthrall. Roughly speaking, Revenant’s enthrall is reduced to this amount of time (based on my quick testing in-game):

1.      91 seconds * 0.25 = ~22.75 seconds of kubrodon being enthralled

2.      ~22.75 seconds * 0.6 = ~13.65 seconds of kubrodon being enthralled

3.      In-game it might be 4 or 5 seconds (I accidentally didn’t get an accurate reading for this 3rd cast, it was 4.0+ seconds of being enthralled a 3rd time roughly speaking).

Basically your time is reduced after each subsequent cast, if you haven’t already captured the kubrodon by the first cast.  Which I think is balancing attempt made by DE. For those of you who don’t know, kubrodons take 2 tranquilizer darts to sedate. And I haven’t actually tried doing it the “right way” yet.

Now it seems DE paid a bit of special attention to Ivara (Thank you DE), because I noticed her sleep arrows report the timer being reduced by only half (it’s bugged right now, see my bug note above). It makes sense because a max duration sleep arrow Ivara can only get up to 30.6 seconds of sleep time (which is significantly shorter than Equinox or Revenant’s duration). At max duration Ivara, it seems sleep arrows are meant to be only halved in their duration given that they have the lowest maximization potential in terms of duration modding. This would actually be balanced and mean that Ivara’s sleep arrows fall roughly into the same timing as Equinox’s rest. This is what the UI sleep arrow timer reports (with a max duration Ivara).

  1. First time sleep arrow is casted on the kubrodon - 30.6 seconds * 0.5 = 15.3 seconds of sleeping time (again it’s bugged, sleep arrows reporting 15.3 seconds, but the kubrodon is waking up at around the ~7.65 second mark)
  2. Second time sleep arrow is casted on the kubrodon - ~15.3 seconds * 0.6 = ~9.18 seconds of sleeping time (again bugged, kubrodon waking up at around ~4.59 second mark)
  3. Third time sleep arrow is casted on the kubrodon - Somewhere close to 3 seconds(?) (hard for me to tell on the UI timer). Again it’s broken, but kubrodon was waking up halfway so it was realistically around 1.4 seconds? (give or take).

 

PS – one other note, I have not had the time to test Trinity, Titania, Vauban, Harrow (I’m sure I’m forgetting somebody, sorry, do let me know), for their reduced duration times. So I don’t know where they sit at in terms of reduced duration (I might get to them later, depends on how busy I am).

My other thoughts: (not really relevant, just my two cents)

In my honest thoughts, I’m sort of okay with this mechanic in regards to kubrodon (as long as Ivara’s sleep arrow times gets fixed). I am not sure why the kubrodon is ‘resistant’ to frame powers for less duration, but it’s also the only animal that has tried to put up a fight if you capture it (when alerted, it will try to attack you). Maybe this will be explained later, but it’s still possible to capture a kubrodon in all situations. However, it would’ve been nice to have known this ahead of time, that using frame abilities to capture kubrodons would get reduced in duration (at least mention this changed mechanic somewhere in the patch notes) as some sort of “balancing” attempt. DE, no doubt you could’ve guessed, since you’ve already shown off 3 new animals in the recent devstream, that we’re going to inevitably use frame powers again to capture the animals (being able to come up with a cunning strategy to accomplish animal tracking was part of our fun). Hopefully DE, you’re not going to just outright disable said approaches, because we’re just having fun building our floof armies in the back of our orbiters. So collecting them, through various means has been interesting. In short, I would still like to be able to capture animals with Ivara (bias: I like playing as the ‘huntress’) when the 3 new animals are introduced. Please also allow other frames that have been mentioned the same capabilities that they enjoy currently, for the next 3 animals as well and so that this will enable more options for players if they’re missing certain frames. However, introducing new mechanics (like this reduced duration on kubrodons) is okay to me at least, so long as we can still use frame powers as part of the capture. What are other people's thoughts? Since we know 3 new animals will be coming in the future.

 

Edited by BlindStalker
fixes and clarity to make post more readable
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Edit: video I meant to post about earlier which highlights Ivara's bug. Also Condrocs are bugged too, please watch video all the way, as someone pointed out, sleep arrows are not working condrocs either.

This video highlights the bug specifically. First I show Equinox and how the duration mechanics function for kubrodons. Then I show the bug with Ivara's sleep arrow, where the kubrodon wakes up early before the sleep arrow has officially expired. Edit: specifically starting from 3:12 is where I highlight the specific bug with Ivara, specifically the kubrodon wakes up before the sleep arrow officially expires.

 

Edited by BlindStalker
forgot to write other info
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