Pax Charge

[Neightrix]

For those curious about the current battery charge rates for Pax Charge on each kitgun:
Catchmoon: 5/s
Tombfinger: 10/s
Gaze: 20/s
Rattleguts: 20/s

For comparison, Cycron is 40/s

I'm very disappointed in the charge rates of everything except Tombfinger. My 67 round Rattleguts jumps from a 1.7 second reload to more than 4 seconds! Even the smallest magazine, fastest reloading Loader builds will see roughly 1 second increase. For a 100k standing investment, I think it should at least break even compared to the total reload time without an arcane.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Neightrix

[Azamagon]

What... WHAT? Are you really sure they have FIXED rates? If so, then that's ridiculously bad. I thought the full recharge time was gonna be equal to the gun's reloadtime (obviously, since it's a buildchoice), but with a slight delay (varying depending on the reloadspeed from the loader as some form of base number) added as a penalty (since you're getting unlimited ammo after all), a penalty which you can reduce with increased ranks of the Arcane obviously. And then both the recharge speed and delay improved further by reloadspeed mods.

And to make matters worse for myself personally, my Kitguns were built with faster reloadspeed over increased magsizes. But if what you're saying is true, that was a complete waste of an investment...

I know that DE are bad with numbers in mechanics but... this sounds way worse than even my worst expecations! T_T

Edited November 21, 2018 by Azamagon

[vFlitz]

53 minutes ago, Neightrix said:

For those curious about the current battery charge rates for Pax Charge on each kitgun:
Catchmoon: 5/s
Tombfinger: 10/s
Gaze: 20/s
Rattleguts: 20/s

For comparison, Cycron is 40/s

I'm very disappointed in the charge rates of everything except Tombfinger. My 67 round Rattleguts jumps from a 1.7 second reload to more than 4 seconds! Even the smallest magazine, fastest reloading Loader builds will see roughly 1 second increase. For a 100k standing investment, I think it should at least break even compared to the total reload time without an arcane.

Well, breaking even is something I think it could do at best, because the main perk is supposed to be never running out of ammo without caring for carrier/ammo mutation/pizzas/drops. I could only test rank 0 on Catchmoon (killstream) and Tombfinger (splat) so far, and while it felt acceptable on Catchmoon and pretty fast and Tombfinger, these aren't ammo hungry enough to really warrant using it.

Based on your data, gaze has the best charge to clip size ratio so I see no issue there. Rattleguts does feel rather left out though, it should be 30/s to be on par with the others. Can you confirm that it's only the chamber that determines the charge rate, and loaders don't affect it at all? I'm not sure it's a good trade to have a greater delay and longer charge time and get only increased capacity in return... then again,we can interrupt and start shooting before it changes to full, so maybe DE doesn't consider the increase in charge time a factor.

[LuckyCharm]

So does it base it off base reload speed? or did you test each gun with the same reload speed base? 

[Guest]

I dunno man, maining the Cycron before its buff makes me feel it's ok, although it would be nice if the charge rate increased. I never really felt the pressure of waiting for the gun to recharge even when it runs dry and I have a R2 Pax Charge (soon to be R3).

That being said, I can't really tell if the higher ranks have a faster charge rate. The charge does start sooner, but R1 felt faster than both R0 and R2. Weird, I know.

[Neightrix]

13 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

I dunno man, maining the Cycron before its buff makes me feel it's ok, although it would be nice if the charge rate increased. I never really felt the pressure of waiting for the gun to recharge even when it runs dry and I have a R2 Pax Charge (soon to be R3).

That being said, I can't really tell if the higher ranks have a faster charge rate. The charge does start sooner, but R1 felt faster than both R0 and R2. Weird, I know.

Looks like the recharge rate does not change with rank, testing a rank 0 and a rank 1.

To the other comments, I do not have a kitgun in every configuration, but I do have 2 Rattleguts in different configurations from each other and the recharge rate is the same. I believe it's safe to assume the recharge rate is currently tied to the chamber.

27 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

So does it base it off base reload speed? or did you test each gun with the same reload speed base? 

I only included the reload delay with regards to stating the total reload time - so it's not included in the charge per second. The rank of the arcane only effects the delay before the recharge begins, so it's functionally the same as modding for reload speed.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Neightrix said:

Looks like the recharge rate does not change with rank, testing a rank 0 and a rank 1.

Yeah, thanks for the info. I personally configured my Rattleguts to fire slowly but powerfully so I rarely deplete more than 2/3 of the mag.

Personally, I feel Pax Charge should also increase charge rate base on rank if what you are saying is true. Like if base charge is 100% (20/s for example), then R1 would be 125% (25/s), R2 150% (30/s), R3 175% (35%).

I like the feel of it, though, so I won't swap out the arcane anyway.

[NoLazyShadow]

Looks like best arcrane in the game need a buff

[Azamagon]

Unconfirmed stuff I've seen been said:

* Base recharge rates as stated by the OP.

* Recharge rates improve with higher FIRE RATE.

* Recharge delay's base is equal to your base reload time.

* Recharge delay can be reduced with more reloadspeed mods.

Overall, this seems ok, to be honest. With the standard Lethal Torrent mod, that means that the total reloadtime ranges from ~2 seconds to ~1,6 seconds, depending on the Arcane's rank, on a gun with 1,3 seconds as its original reload time. I have no problems with that, honestly.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Azamagon

[vFlitz]

5 hours ago, Azamagon said:

Unconfirmed stuff I've seen been said:

* Base recharge rates as stated by the OP.

* Recharge rates improve with higher FIRE RATE.

* Recharge delay's base is equal to your base reload time.

* Recharge delay can be reduced with more reloadspeed mods.

Overall, this seems ok, to be honest. With the standard Lethal Torrent mod, that means that the total reloadtime ranges from ~2 seconds to ~1,6 seconds, depending on the Arcane's rank, on a gun with 1,3 seconds as its original reload time. I have no problems with that, honestly.

Firerate definitely has no impact on charge rate, tried that now.

[Azamagon]

Just now, vFlitz said:

Firerate definitely has no impact on charge rate, tried that now.

Alright, thanks for proving it to be false! 🙂

Gonna get the Pax Charge soon myself, and gonna do a whole bunch more elaborate testing.

 

[Peter]

I got my R3 today and did some testing, I had no problem regarding the lack of ammunition, I loved the arcane and I have nothing to complain about.

The problem that you say only appears when you put mods of fire rate and shoots a lot without the need, but i can not imagine a buff in this arcane, the 4 Kitguns are monsters with this.

[JohnKable]

the purpose of the arcane is both to never run out of ammos and to passively recharge the weapon when you dont fire with it for a fraction of a second.
it works really well at max rank, the recharge starts after 0.5-0.7 seconds without firing. It feels really good, but like many other arcanes it need rank 2 or 3 to really feel good.
Feels best on tombfinger or catchmoon because you dont fire those too frequently and usually you have leftover shots in the clip granding you usually feel like you dont ever have to actually wait for it to kick in. the other 2 weapons sometimes can empty their mags so sometimes you feel that delay but its still very fine to me

[Vali]

5 hours ago, JohnKable said:

the purpose of the arcane is both to never run out of ammos and to passively recharge the weapon when you dont fire with it for a fraction of a second.
it works really well at max rank, the recharge starts after 0.5-0.7 seconds without firing. It feels really good, but like many other arcanes it need rank 2 or 3 to really feel good.
Feels best on tombfinger or catchmoon because you dont fire those too frequently and usually you have leftover shots in the clip granding you usually feel like you dont ever have to actually wait for it to kick in. the other 2 weapons sometimes can empty their mags so sometimes you feel that delay but its still very fine to me

The Tombfinger / Catchmoon only needs 2-3 seconds to reload with this Arcane.

Gaze and Rattleguts need 4-6 seconds, which really needs to get buffed.

[Guest]

Gotta say, with Catchmoon (Haymaker+Killstream), the magazine feels bottomless as the reload kicks in real fast, sometimes before the gun can properly cycle or before you line up the next shot.

I do feel the pressure of running out with the Gaze (Ramble + Stitch), but so far I don't feel the magazine bottom with the Rattleguts (Lovetap + Splat) and Tombfinger (Haymaker+Killstream) either, like as if there are always more bullets ready to be fired.

It would be nice if they did buff the ammo/sec for Rattleguts and Gaze to maybe 30 rounds/s

[JohnKable]

47 minutes ago, Vali said:

The Tombfinger / Catchmoon only needs 2-3 seconds to reload with this Arcane.

Gaze and Rattleguts need 4-6 seconds, which really needs to get buffed.

Yes but you can shoot even if your mag isn’t full. I mean its a mechanical change, doesn’t have to be an all around upgrade. If it was intended to make you reload faster it would have done just that.

as I said the upgrade is that you will never run out of ammo. If you don’t like it you still have other arcanes to choose from.

im fine with a speed upgrade for the 2 weapons it doesn’t shine on. But as it is now, it’s really far from being trash

[Peter]

2 hours ago, Vali said:

The Tombfinger / Catchmoon only needs 2-3 seconds to reload with this Arcane.

Gaze and Rattleguts need 4-6 seconds, which really needs to get buffed.

I've never run out of ammunition on those weapons to need to load, there's something wrong with your build or play style.

[Neightrix]

10 hours ago, JohnKable said:

the purpose of the arcane is both to never run out of ammos and to passively recharge the weapon when you dont fire with it for a fraction of a second.

Would you have a problem with this arcane nerfing the reload time less? I feel like this is the argument we should be having. I think 40/s would be much better for Rattleguts and Gaze. Would you consider 20/s to be better?

11 hours ago, Peter said:

The problem that you say only appears when you put mods of fire rate and shoots a lot without the need

There are enemies. They need to be shot. You shoot the enemies, but there are more enemies. You've played 2000+ hours, you know this. It would be better if you argued against improving the recharge time rather than making wrong accusations of how others play.

[Peter]

 

2 hours ago, Neightrix said:

There are enemies. They need to be shot. You shoot the enemies, but there are more enemies. You've played 2000+ hours, you know this. It would be better if you argued against improving the recharge time rather than making wrong accusations of how others play.

 

How about use a Pax Seeker? I see no point in wanting to face waves of enemies with a purely single target weapon without any AoE dmg.

Edited November 24, 2018 by Peter

[vFlitz]

I'd say Gaze is fine, but with Rattleguts it's true that it stands out from the others with the time it needs to reload fully. 30/s would be more in line with the others

[Vali]

2 hours ago, Peter said:

 

 

How about use a Pax Seeker? I see no point in wanting to face waves of enemies with a purely single target weapon without any AoE dmg.

That's a pretty bad argument. Instead of fixing Pax Charge, use Pax Seeker instead? 

[vFlitz]

I also wish the start of reload, or at least recovering ammo to full, could trigger Arcana Awakening. Currently it's impossible to use it with Pax Charge

[Peter]

4 hours ago, Vali said:

That's a pretty bad argument. Instead of fixing Pax Charge, use Pax Seeker instead? 

It is not an argument, it is a fact, every arcane has its function, wants to deal with enemy waves? pax seeker.

And do not get me wrong, I'm not saying that because of this Pax Charge does not need changes, I'm just saying he have better options for what he needs.

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by Peter

[NoLazyShadow]

Только что, Peter сказал:

It is not an argument, it is a fact, every arcane has its function, wants to deal with enemy waves? pax seeker.

And do not get me wrong, I'm not saying that because of this Pax Charge does not need changes, I'm just saying he have better options for what he needs.

 

Nope. It needs to be buffed. Recharge speed with Rattleguts are way to slow, compare to others

[Peter]

11 minutes ago, NoLazyShadow said:

Nope. It needs to be buffed. Recharge speed with Rattleguts are way to slow, compare to others

Quote

 I'm not saying that because of this Pax Charge does not need changes