Nidus is tankier than Inaros, dont @ me.

[Hijau_Langit]

Wukong main: tankie??? Huh?? Really??

[Veridian]

On ‎2018‎-‎11‎-‎24 at 9:42 PM, Ailyene said:

Nidus -> CC/Status Immunity, CC, In-built Sustain, Doesn't die when killed

 

20 hours ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

Why does that made me laugh XD

Because of this?

 

On topic, yes Nidus has more EHP, but is grounded for it, making his max EHP effectively non-existent in anything but defense, survival and maybe interception. That's why I prefer Inaros.

[-Krism-]

1 hour ago, Ver1dian said:

On topic, yes Nidus has more EHP, but is grounded for it, making his max EHP effectively non-existent in anything but defense, survival and maybe interception. That's why I prefer Inaros.

2

Just to clarify, a good Nidus player will not just stand in his 4 like an idiot, parasitic link only costs 1 stack, you can move all you want without real trouble, use your 3 on a tough enemy, suppressing him from battle, & stomping only one to three times to get a whole stack back.

& if you die & have maggots running all around, you can regain more than 15 stacks in those five seconds, making Nidus pretty much unkillable, since you can still regain those lost stacks while being invulnerable.

[ant99999]

2 часа назад, Hijau_Langit сказал:

Wukong main: tankie??? Huh?? Really??

Yeah, really.

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

On 2018-11-23 at 11:07 AM, GothKazu-EN- said:

i think he means more along the line of healing increases the EFFECTIVENESS of ehp, because you top up and youre right back to 29K (or whatever number applies)
but that also means Trinity is the best tank in the game shrug

Yes. I don't care about about how big of a number you can survive, your not a tank unless you can cause mass majority of the mobs target you,  and/or redirect all/nearly all damage to you providing your team with fighting comfort.

Gara is in league with these titans, and can provide 90% damage reduction to all allies, followers, ally spawns,  ect and grant close range damage at tremendous scales. And now can heal. All you team needs to do is walk through Mass verify every so often while its expanding. 

From my understanding Nezha is similar now? Not sure yet. 

Finally. Yes Trinity is all of this if your willing to restrict your build for the greater good of the team. Preferably in small quarters.. 

 

At 5:05 is a Ack & Brunt build that completes all of this. 

 

I suppose it's all matter of opinion,  but the only real thing massive tankiness in terms of self survival provides in Warframe is a dedicated reviver. 

Both Inaros and Nidus are heavy tanks with excellent cc. 

Nidus definitely is Tankier in terms of just getting hit. His cc is set it and forget it.

Inaros can leave large fields of healing cc targets..  But does need some strategic planning. His 2 & 3 have amazing synergy but horrible damage to pull off what could have been... 

If a enemy were invincible with...  1000.0 fire rate, every hit would do 1 damage to these two regardless, the one with more actual hp will survive longer. The damage fall off is interesting that way. 

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

On 2018-11-23 at 11:07 AM, GothKazu-EN- said:

 

Double post...  Can't figure how to remove the thing above... 

Edited November 26, 2018 by (XB1)Evilpricetag

[-GothKazu-]

52 minutes ago, (XB1)Evilpricetag said:

Yes. I don't care about about how big of a number you can survive, your not a tank unless you can cause mass majority of the mobs target you,  and/or redirect all/nearly all damage to you providing your team with fighting comfort.

Gara is in league with these titans, and can provide 90% damage reduction to all allies, followers, ally spawns,  ect and grant close range damage at tremendous scales. And now can heal. All you team needs to do is walk through Mass verify every so often while its expanding. 

From my understanding Nezha is similar now? Not sure yet. 

Finally. Yes Trinity is all of this if your willing to restrict your build for the greater good of the team. Preferably in small quarters.. 

your definition of tank doesnt work in warframe because the only thing (that i know of) that redirects enemies to you is a hallway or the ack & brunt mod
the second half of your definition, the "fighting comfort" is more of a buffer/supporter than a tank.

Gara cant heal. she renews the damage reduction.

New Nezha drops health orbs by using his chakram on enemies, with a 30(ish) percent chance to drop energy orbs too. per your definition, he would require Safeguard augment which is a pretty crappy mod to begin with.

56 minutes ago, (XB1)Evilpricetag said:

I suppose it's all matter of opinion,  but the only real thing massive tankiness in terms of self survival provides in Warframe is a dedicated reviver. 

Both Inaros and Nidus are heavy tanks with excellent cc. 

Nidus definitely is Tankier in terms of just getting hit. His cc is set it and forget it.

Inaros can leave large fields of healing cc targets..  But does need some strategic planning. His 2 & 3 have amazing synergy but horrible damage to pull off what could have been... 

If a enemy were invincible with...  1000.0 fire rate, every hit would do 1 damage to these two regardless, the one with more actual hp will survive longer. The damage fall off is interesting that way. 

some parts are matter of opinion but the thing about this game is that a high ehp doesnt necessarily make you the best tank. the best lazy tank maybe.

regarding,
Nidus: i cant tell if you mean his cc iswhat makes him tanky

Inaros: his 2 is single target dedicated (meaning stuck in the animation) eating, his 3 is an aoe tornado, they cant possibly work together.

fire rate: thats not how damage or fire rate works. the enemy would have to be doing a specific amount of damage that both frames' armor then reduces to 1. if something does 1000 dmg to something with only 90 dmg reduction (total, not added to armor) then the dmg still hits for 100 (wherever that damage is taken, i assume its ehp)
fire rate is just....the rate at which the weapon the enemy is using attacks. it has nothing to do with damage amount except for overall damage after a set amount of time (40 dmg per sec, etc)

higher hp: yes the one with more would survive longest, if they were standing there doing nothing which is the opposite of the gameplay warframe encourages.

i hope this doesnt come off as mean or condescending, but this (your post, not my reply) is furthering my point about the ehp values dont guarantee best tank

[SneakyErvin]

On 2018-11-23 at 8:12 PM, GothKazu-EN- said:

yes it does, thats what warframe is about. however comma limbo and revenant can still be hurt with their respective "nope" abilities

Rev actually cant, unless you are dead, drunk, stoned or a combination of those 3. And in those cases you are SoL with either of the other frames far more easily aswell. Rev can only get hurt it he actually walks ontop of ground AoE hotspots. So it simply comes down to awarness vs vulnerability, just as it is for the others. And if Rev is in a sticky situation where he needs to get past high damage hotspots, he can simply reave his way out of it.

[-GothKazu-]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Rev actually cant, unless you are dead, drunk, stoned or a combination of those 3. And in those cases you are SoL with either of the other frames far more easily aswell.

 

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Rev can only get hurt it he actually walks ontop of ground AoE hotspots. So it simply comes down to awarness vs vulnerability, just as it is for the others.

these are conflicting sentences.

and Revanant and Limbo both can be hurt by something out in Orb Vallis that fires from the sky. its not an orbmother because it happens when im nowhere near them as well.

i havent figured out what it is, but it will kill Limbo and put Revanant down to 2hp.
please refrain from being rude, thank you

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2018-11-23 at 9:31 AM, GothKazu-EN- said:

so i was doing some EHP math with the help of a spreadsheet
(https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hEGlXTR0jHNf6xRBOCju0C79E5d1_tkn9eKG77Gw1T8/edit?usp=sharing created by u/Nem0x3 on reddit)
and it looks like Nidus is tankier than inaros
Inaros with Scarab Armor sits at  29,439.7 EHP
Nidus naturally sits at 6,637.5
(NOTE: THESE ARE MY SPECIFIC BUILD NUMBERS)
but
Nidus has Parasitic Link, a guaranteed 90% damage reduction (with at least 180% power strength at max rank)
which makes him into 66,375
and even if you add Adaptation to both of them that only makes it 
Inaros: 294 397
Nidus: 663 750

(Provided its one damage type only/ resisting all types equally simultaneously)
on the spreadsheet, turning on Link for Nidus makes no visible numerical change so im doing it myself
i either divide Nidus ehp by .1 or i divide it by .01 to factor in adaptation
that combined with the damage boost from stacks (at max stacks)
(his 1 will do 57,772 damage per hit)
(the maggots explosions will do 43,329 damage per hit)
basically incredibly high levels of damage
at NO STACKS AT ALL these abilities do 572 and 182 (rounded) respectively
while inaros has covert lethality with his pocket sand opening up finishers, nidus has better aesthetics, and damage options, IN ADDITION to being able to achieve 2.25 times EHP
even tho Inaros has 7 to 8 times more health, having half the armor (without scarab armor) and no extra dmg reduction ability kills this competition for him
especially considering Scarab armor only adds maybe 8 percent more dmg reduction versus nidus' dedicated 90

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk

Arcane grace exists. Arcane grace works better on inaros because its effect is based on how much total modded health you have.

Inaros is, in my opinion, functionally harder to kill when you factor "passive healing" from grace into account.

I can just set my controller down in the middle of sortie 3, or an arbitration, or kuva flood, whatever and no matter how long I just sit there inaros cant die.

[-GothKazu-]

1 hour ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Arcane grace exists. Arcane grace works better on inaros because its effect is based on how much total modded health you have.

Inaros is, in my opinion, functionally harder to kill when you factor "passive healing" from grace into account.

 

On 2018-11-23 at 2:57 PM, GothKazu-EN- said:

no arcanes were used in these calculations as i dont have any however i did use the spreadsheet to check anyway and it doesnt make much difference in the final numerical tally.
However, im aware arcane grace on inaros is insane.

._.

[-GothKazu-]

1 minute ago, moostar95 said:

It comes back to the question? What is the point of making this thread. Its kind of is your fault for making quite the head turning title.

ive answered that question already.
displaying numerical values.

Nidus is tankier than Inaros. Numerically.

Does that make him a better tank? an easier tank? a cooler tank? thats all up to personal interpretation and opinion.
At the end of the day with their full kits taken into account, Nidus' number is higher

What you do with that information is up to you.
Whether you add Arcane Grace to Inaros is up to you.
Whether you even ever use Parasitic Link is up to you.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

21 minutes ago, GothKazu-EN- said:

 

._.

I consider arcanes relevant. I also consider arcane guardian relevant for that matter. If you disagree that's fine.

[-GothKazu-]

8 minutes ago, moostar95 said:

And there you go, you making a frame look worst because of you took some time to calculate numbers. 

 

You (and few others here forget) nidus is only useful in longer missions suviuals or defense. Missions where are you going to be playing long term. I feel like you should put a disclaimer NOT to start fights on who is the better frame. Threads like these create misconceptions and lies about frames who are more useful then the sum of their parts. Ive outdamaged a nidus before only in high end short term missions like the arena gamemode where ive carried a nidus and a few others the whole night grinding endo. The fact that you never took the time to talk about the good things inaros does for himself and teams. Makes you look biased. 

i didnt even talk about the good things about nidus lol what?

people can have their misconceptions, its their loss not mine. but saying im saying something im not is where i draw the line.

also Nidus' DAMAGE  is only useful in longer missions. his stacks does literally nothing for his survivability, save get 1 single stack for the link. Hit 5 enemies once or 1 enemy 5 times and tada 60K ehp.

you can bring nidus on any mission, just bring weapons to make up for the damage he wont have time to scale up to. its not hard, and saying hes not useful except in those mission types is being disingenuous at best.

[-GothKazu-]

11 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

I consider arcanes relevant. I also consider arcane guardian relevant for that matter. If you disagree that's fine.

i didnt say they werent relevant.

i did however say that arcane guardian doesnt change the final outcome if given to both frames.

i did however say that im well aware of arcane grace paired with inaros.

arcane grace doesnt change his ehp total, it just regenerates it. it doesnt change the final outcome. and it doesnt change my point.

[Guest]

inaros dies more then nidus

tested both umbral + adaptation + guardian + grace

inaros dies faster. His invurnerability is flawed because once you stop holding devour theres a delay about 2-3 s before you can move again, you are locked and if your against lvl 100+ you die even with 8k hp before you even have the chance to escape or blind them

having said that i love both of them, inaros looks cooler though

[-GothKazu-]

Just now, Crowtor said:

inaros looks cooler though

youre entitled to your wrong opinion lol

[SneakyErvin]

18 hours ago, GothKazu-EN- said:

these are conflicting sentences.

and Revanant and Limbo both can be hurt by something out in Orb Vallis that fires from the sky. its not an orbmother because it happens when im nowhere near them as well.

i havent figured out what it is, but it will kill Limbo and put Revanant down to 2hp.
please refrain from being rude, thank you

It still doesnt make Rev less immortal. 2HP is still 2HP, the attacks you talk about work exactly like self damage, they will never kill you and never drain Mesmer charges. So in essence they dont actually hurt him because he cant get lower than 2HP unless he decides to walk onto damage patches on the ground. And in order for that to happen you need to be extremely unaware of what is around you.

Currently, with skills included, Rev is the tankiest frame out there, because you know exactly how many hits you can take before running a risk of dying, this applies no matter the level of the content or the build of your Rev. All other frames (except Wukong) will get 1-shot at one point or another.

[-GothKazu-]

17 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

It still doesnt make Rev less immortal. 2HP is still 2HP

I didn't say anything about immortality or tanking. I said they can both be hurt, which is true.

 

17 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Currently, with skills included, Rev is the tankiest frame out there

That's great. Has nothing to do with anything I've said, whatsoever, and it just seems like you're upset that I said anything negative about Revenant.

 

17 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

All other frames (except Wukong) will get 1-shot at one point or another.

Rhino can't. It would have to be 2 shots. Just like Revenant at 0 Mesmer Skin.

Nidus with minimum 15 stacks can't. It would have to be 1 shot, wait 5 seconds and then another, provided the Nidus doesn't have 15 more stacks or doesn't gain 15 in the 5 seconds.

Any frame with Quick Thinking can't. Especially if they have Pain Threshold.

Again, refrain from being rude, thank you.

[Marvelous_A]

I say Assimilate Nyx with max efficiency and dual energize is the tankiest frame in game

Edited November 28, 2018 by Marvelous_A

[SneakyErvin]

6 hours ago, GothKazu-EN- said:

I didn't say anything about immortality or tanking. I said they can both be hurt, which is true.

That's great. Has nothing to do with anything I've said, whatsoever, and it just seems like you're upset that I said anything negative about Revenant.

Rhino can't. It would have to be 2 shots. Just like Revenant at 0 Mesmer Skin.

Nidus with minimum 15 stacks can't. It would have to be 1 shot, wait 5 seconds and then another, provided the Nidus doesn't have 15 more stacks or doesn't gain 15 in the 5 seconds.

Any frame with Quick Thinking can't. Especially if they have Pain Threshold.

Again, refrain from being rude, thank you.

"Hurt" to me would imply running a risk getting killed, which just isnt the case for Rev. His HP may go down but he doesnt need that HP (or any other defensive stat) to begin with.

Rhino can get one-shot straight through his Iron Skin, it is in reality just a fancy type of shield. Mesmer Skin works differently since it has no given HP, just charges that are removed one per hit. Iron Skin for instance wont save Rhino from a Lenz or other heavy hitting self damage attack unless you've built him for full Iron Skin and built it up to max from mobs. The attack will strip skin, shields and hp in one go. Same goes for heavy enemy attacks the higher up you get in the levels.

Also, are we now going to include mods aswell? Well Rev will survive longer in any case because he has access to those exact same mods if he wanted to for those few occasions where you might get caught without Mesmer up. Having to waste three mod slots to get somewhat "reliable" counters to 1HKs just isnt really viable in my book. And QT without PT and Flow/Primed is a death trap, nothing else. QT also doesnt work 100% of the time, you often get killed straight through it and sit with several hundred energy left. 

My point is just that Rev along with Wukong are close to immortal without having to do anything but apply one single skill. No build up, no mod needs outside what you'd normaly bring etc. That to me defines "tankiest" frame. The upper hand for Rev is that he cant be knocked down or CCed either.

Also please point out what part was rude in any of my posts.

[-GothKazu-]

On 2018-11-28 at 7:33 AM, SneakyErvin said:

"Hurt" to me would imply running a risk getting killed, which just isnt the case for Rev. His HP may go down but he doesnt need that HP (or any other defensive stat) to begin with.

If you get a paper cut, you are hurt, you aren't going to die. Your definition is wrong.

 

On 2018-11-28 at 7:33 AM, SneakyErvin said:

Also please point out what part was rude in any of my posts.

If you don't consider litteraly insulting people rude then you can just see your way out. I'm not playing this game.

[SneakyErvin]

6 hours ago, GothKazu-EN- said:

If you get a paper cut, you are hurt, you aren't going to die. Your definition is wrong.

If you don't consider litteraly insulting people rude then you can just see your way out. I'm not playing this game.

I was talking about hurt out of gameplay perspective. In game a papercut would hurt Rev more than a mortal shell to the face since the paper cut would remove parts of his Mesmer Skin, actually bringing him closer to death.

Oh and by rude do you mean me calling people dead, drunk, stoned or a combination of all three if they die with Rev? That was just a joke implying you need to be really unaware in order to get killed with him.

[Spectre-8]

On 2018-11-26 at 3:11 PM, GothKazu-EN- said:

 

Same guy. 

 

someone did mention wukong i think on page 1(?)

 

someone mentioned "best tank blah blah" thats not what this post is about. if i wanted to prove the best tank, id use more than 2 frames and more than numerical ehp values.
For Example: 

this is a really nicely summary of various frames and their tanking ability/use benefits

This post is LITERALLY just displaying Inaros and Nidus' ehp values when you factor in their kits.
Not about whos better at what. literally just numbers.

SHeep mentality at it's finest .

[MORFIN26]

For tanking i can say one thing Nidus can survive any amount of damage as long as it has 15 stacks but inaros dies if it gets hit hard enough. but who says you have to tank with inaros. tanking with inaros is not viable after some point thus it is not applicable to every situation.

As long as you can get 15 stacks in 5 seconds with Nidus, you should never die. this becomes easier to manage with higher lvl enemies and augment or extending your invinsibility with rolling guard. if you can met the condition, dying is out of question. Inaros if you are able to CC everything and roll fairly often dying is also out of question. if you use trickery you can be invisible and it is quite hard to die when you have everything CC'd and you are invisible.