Make ghouls more noob-friendly

[Retrijeuj]

Hey there.

I just went to the plains to farm the Stubba and Quartakk blueprints on a fresh account, and I noticed how horrible ghouls can be to new players (and I mean even the low level ghouls).

The fact that they poison you all the time isn't that much of a problem, you just avoid to melee them like a braintard and I'm fine with enemies that force you to change your game style. The problem comes from two things :

1 : there are too many of them. I got a rescue bounty on a burrial ground, and ghouls just kept coming. I killed maybe 20/25 of them and they still popped.

2 : cc. Every ghoul has its own cc, and while I'm fine with the fat ones grabbing you (though they could use a little less range), the ones that burry themselves and jump at you from the ground (expired or auger, I can't remember) are hard to predict in great numbers and make you fall down if you're not constantly rolling.

I'm fine with a little challenge, especially on events, but I think PoE already features enough enemies with cc. This is not just challenging, it's annoying as hell and makes me feel like I'm some kind of punching ball 😩
Right now it's like the best way to fight ghouls is just to be overpowered.

[Bombarder0]

They are incredibly easy already jeez,dont nerf it.

Plus they are rare.

 

[(PSN)Gerbizzzle]

If it’s too hard at the moment, don’t play the content until you’ve leveled up a bit. Not every game needs to allow noobs to play all the content immediately. Plus, as mentioned, they aren’t a rare event. They’ll be back soon enough. 

[(XBOX)I semideum]

14 minutes ago, Luk3Cag3 said:

The flashlight is in the way and annoying. There are to be an on and off button plz.

 

8 hours ago, Retrijeuj said:

Hey there.

I just went to the plains to farm the Stubba and Quartakk blueprints on a fresh account, and I noticed how horrible ghouls can be to new players (and I mean even the low level ghouls).

The fact that they poison you all the time isn't that much of a problem, you just avoid to melee them like a braintard and I'm fine with enemies that force you to change your game style. The problem comes from two things :

1 : there are too many of them. I got a rescue bounty on a burrial ground, and ghouls just kept coming. I killed maybe 20/25 of them and they still popped.

2 : cc. Every ghoul has its own cc, and while I'm fine with the fat ones grabbing you (though they could use a little less range), the ones that burry themselves and jump at you from the ground (expired or auger, I can't remember) are hard to predict in great numbers and make you fall down if you're not constantly rolling.

I'm fine with a little challenge, especially on events, but I think PoE already features enough enemies with cc. This is not just challenging, it's annoying as hell and makes me feel like I'm some kind of punching ball 😩
Right now it's like the best way to fight ghouls is just to be overpowered.

theyr not hard & there are 2 dif bounty difficulties. do the easier 1

[(PSN)SemiProStump]

Are you doing it solo or in a pub group? If you're doing it solo and struggling I would suggest using Oberon for his 2 which removes negative status effects. Sancti Magistar works in the same way too (status immunity when held/equipped). I would also suggest doing it with a group, even with randoms, because it can be done faster and with less stress. Plus there's safety in numbers.

[Zanchak]

Can't keep watering down difficulty on everything, it kills the game for anyone who isn't a noob. Ghouls are not difficult in the grand scheme of things, their difficulty arises from the situation you describe which should, in general, lead players to join squads to do the mission. Working together is always a better option than hoping more things get nerfed on content you'll find easy in 2 weeks time.

[Cephalycion]

While I admit the ghouls are definitely harder than normal grineer of the same level, the mechanics are just fine.

It should be on the new players to know when they are not on the level to participate in certain content and become stronger to come back and try again, not the other way round.

[Nitro747]

No, seriously, no. Stop crying all the god damn time about "not being new player friendly". Enough is enough. They nerfed Terra enemies because of MR1 people crying about it and a week later they had to add "ELITE" enemy types because it was just too stupidly easy. They nerfed arbitration enemies and ESO.

A hint for you: if you feel like its "too hard" then maybe, just MAAAAYBE you are not ready for it and should look to get good and go get more mods and better equipment.

Warframe is already at a poor state where the game is devoid of challenge and motivation to get good mods, weapons, etc. Don't make the situation even worse by crying all the time that "this enemy is not noob friendly". They are enemies. They are not supposed to be "friendly" at all.

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

Agree with posts above.  If you find the ghouls hard then go and level up until you get better / stronger.  

There needs to be harder levels of gameplay, not everything is for mr1-5.  Otherwise in about a month you'll be back saying everything is too easy. 

[Retrijeuj]

You all got it wrong.

I'm not a new player, I just play on a new account. I know the game mechanics, and I know how to counter poison damage and cc. On my main I'm at a point where I can solo sorties and carry Tridolons (it's not that much of a feat but that's pretty much all the end game we have right now).

The first ghoul incursion is ranged level 15-25. Since I have no problem with enemies up to level 25/30 with my current gear, I'd expect to be able to defend myself against them.

I think you all missed the part where I say they have too many cc, that's my problem. No one enjoys being tossed and dragged around, and enemies on the plains already do that all the time. Plains of Eidolon have been teased as an open world available for even new players long before (and long after) it came out but right now you're walking around mine fields that can mess up your objectives completely if you're not strong enough.

You can't tell new players "try out this new open world" then tell them to come back stronger.

Also, making low level content noob friendly won't affect your end game challenges, so I don't see the problem here. That's for you, @Nitro747, and you didn't need to be so agressive.

[(NSW)Kromatia]

The simple answer to too much CC is to stay out of the way of the CC. Use your guns, avoid their mechanics and play in a group. If all the content gets watered down to the thickness of horse urine, then the game will be a boring grind fest. Too much content in the game is already as thick as horse urine. If you're a long term player and know how these things work, why do you allow yourself to get CC'd in the first place? You should know the mechanic and what abilities to avoid.

To address the "try out this new world but come back later," yes you can. Give them a taste for what's to come when they get stronger. Don't hand it to them on a fecking silver platter. Not everything needs to be "toned down" for newbies. How will they learn and desire to get stronger if they can kill everything in the game with their MK-I Bratons? Seriously, no. Stop the nerfing. Enough of this hand holding and catering to new players. Honestly, new players won't want to stick around for very long if all the content is super easy.

[Retrijeuj]

If you wonder what incentive players have to keep playing if they can already survive in low level plains, I'll tell you : Gara and Revenant. Their BP parts are in low AND high level bounties, so no matter how easily you can get the first one, you will have to get stronger to be able to get the rest.

I know how to avoid cc, but it's as I said, ghouls are too many. The ones that dig their way to you are the worst, you can try to anticipate their movements all you want, there's always going to be one you forgot. I should also mention that at some point, I need to stop rolling around to aim. But no rolling for more than 2 seconds is enough for a ghoul to catch up to you.

And of course, when there's an objective to defend, you can't just keep a distance between you and them.

Now I agree that making the game too easy is lame. But there are two levels of ghoul incursions for a reason (which isn't "making a second pool of reward to increase the grind", or is it ?). Maybe just limit the amount of ghouls on the low level one so that people aren't overwhelmed ? I understand that I'm supposed to be on a squad of 4 and that by playing solo I make things harder on myself, but weren't enemy spawns supposed to scale with the number of players at some point ?

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

Try using a frame that has cc abilities like mesa, even ember's world on fire is enough.  If still using excal then radial blind and stun them, volt's discharge etc etc.  Use a good melee, orthos Prime,  cassowar etc with lots of reach and then no need to stand still and aim.  Even oberon, he can keep you alive and has cc abilities.  Get rhino and nothing will kill you plus stomp will cc everything too.

But if you're an experienced player why am I even telling you this.  I'd be very interested to know what you're using to struggle so much. 

[Nitro747]

12 hours ago, Retrijeuj said:

You all got it wrong.

I'm not a new player, I just play on a new account. I know the game mechanics, and I know how to counter poison damage and cc. On my main I'm at a point where I can solo sorties and carry Tridolons (it's not that much of a feat but that's pretty much all the end game we have right now).

The first ghoul incursion is ranged level 15-25. Since I have no problem with enemies up to level 25/30 with my current gear, I'd expect to be able to defend myself against them.

I think you all missed the part where I say they have too many cc, that's my problem. No one enjoys being tossed and dragged around, and enemies on the plains already do that all the time. Plains of Eidolon have been teased as an open world available for even new players long before (and long after) it came out but right now you're walking around mine fields that can mess up your objectives completely if you're not strong enough.

You can't tell new players "try out this new open world" then tell them to come back stronger.

Also, making low level content noob friendly won't affect your end game challenges, so I don't see the problem here. That's for you, @Nitro747, and you didn't need to be so agressive.

I got it that you are playing on a "new account", which makes the whole preposition even more atrocious.

[Dabnician]

On 2018-11-24 at 11:42 AM, Zanchak said:

Can't keep watering down difficulty on everything, it kills the game for anyone who isn't a noob.

 

^ this

 

[Retrijeuj]

Le 25/11/2018 à 21:02, Nitro747 a dit :

I got it that you are playing on a "new account", which makes the whole preposition even more atrocious.

How so ?

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

I would suggest getting better weapons and mods to anyone having trouble with Ghouls... We dont need more nerfing of content so everyosne can just jump into everything. It defeats the purpose of learning mechanics and getting better at the movement.

Edited November 26, 2018 by (XB1)Zweimander

[Noob.Saibot]

On 2018-11-24 at 2:59 AM, Retrijeuj said:

Hey there.

I just went to the plains to farm the Stubba and Quartakk blueprints on a fresh account, and I noticed how horrible ghouls can be to new players (and I mean even the low level ghouls).

The fact that they poison you all the time isn't that much of a problem, you just avoid to melee them like a braintard and I'm fine with enemies that force you to change your game style. The problem comes from two things :

1 : there are too many of them. I got a rescue bounty on a burrial ground, and ghouls just kept coming. I killed maybe 20/25 of them and they still popped.

2 : cc. Every ghoul has its own cc, and while I'm fine with the fat ones grabbing you (though they could use a little less range), the ones that burry themselves and jump at you from the ground (expired or auger, I can't remember) are hard to predict in great numbers and make you fall down if you're not constantly rolling.

I'm fine with a little challenge, especially on events, but I think PoE already features enough enemies with cc. This is not just challenging, it's annoying as hell and makes me feel like I'm some kind of punching ball 😩
Right now it's like the best way to fight ghouls is just to be overpowered.

NOPe NOP NOPE NOPE...let ghouls stay how they are...omg, just don't go there until you have better gear ffs. i cant deal with the weak enemies.

[Nitro747]

31 minutes ago, Retrijeuj said:

How so ?

Because it heavily implies that you know the barebones basics of the game and know that if you jump into certain situations without decent gear you'll get rekt. It heavily implies that you know this game and its challenge problems better than a new player.

[Retrijeuj]

il y a 22 minutes, (XB1)Zweimander a dit :

I would suggest getting better weapons and mods to anyone having trouble with Ghouls... We dont need more nerfing of content so everyosne can just jump into everything. It defeats the purpose of learning mechanics and getting better at the movement.

The problem is, ghouls will pop even out of related bounties, so people who can't beat them won't be able to roam in the plains anymore, or they'll be limited. 

il y a 13 minutes, Noob.Saibot a dit :

NOPe NOP NOPE NOPE...let ghouls stay how they are...omg, just don't go there until you have better gear ffs. i cant deal with the weak enemies.

I'm only talking about the level 15/25 ghouls, not the level 40+.

[Retrijeuj]

il y a 1 minute, Nitro747 a dit :

Because it heavily implies that you know the barebones basics of the game and know that if you jump into certain situations without decent gear you'll get rekt. It heavily implies that you know this game and its challenge problems better than a new player.

Yep, I also know that with my current gear I can easily beat level 30+ enemies, and I'm still having trouble with level 20 ghouls.

If they're gonna be that hard for whatever purpose, their level should match it.

[Nitro747]

Just now, Retrijeuj said:

Yep, I also know that with my current gear I can easily beat level 30+ enemies, and I'm still having trouble with level 20 ghouls.

If they're gonna be that hard for whatever purpose, their level should match it.

They are Ghouls, not Lancers or Corpus Tech. I think their names already implied they would be different and all the ~hype~ around them as super killing machines should match them?

Compare a lvl 100 Corpus Tech and a lvl 100 Heavy Gunner. Who do you think its considered "way harder"? Should they "change their levels" accordingly

[Retrijeuj]

Well, you've got a point. Still, if memory serves, the first ghoul bounty is displayed at level 15-25 or somewhere around. This is misleading when you're used to complete missions above this level.

[Rhyandra]

Am 24.11.2018 um 18:12 schrieb Nitro747:

No, seriously, no. Stop crying all the god damn time about "not being new player friendly". Enough is enough. They nerfed Terra enemies because of MR1 people crying about it and a week later they had to add "ELITE" enemy types because it was just too stupidly easy. They nerfed arbitration enemies and ESO.

A hint for you: if you feel like its "too hard" then maybe, just MAAAAYBE you are not ready for it and should look to get good and go get more mods and better equipment.

Warframe is already at a poor state where the game is devoid of challenge and motivation to get good mods, weapons, etc. Don't make the situation even worse by crying all the time that "this enemy is not noob friendly". They are enemies. They are not supposed to be "friendly" at all.

The Terra enemies were kinda broken though. They need to buff a ton of other units. Almost all of them even.

[Neightrix]

Maybe we should be more specific about what's wrong with the Ghouls (and some other enemies). For one, shield ignoring damage. New players usually have no way of restoring health - they simply die of attrition. The Ghoul charge attack (also Nox and Kuva Guardian) has a disjointed hitbox, knocking players down before they're actually hit, so you have to do a evade on prediction rather than reaction. Ghouls move around like cartoon characters and I find it very hard to know what they're going to do. I suspect Ghouls were made to be very erratic so they have a better chance of threatening more powerful players. I can see how this bodes poorly for any player who can't kill them immediately.