(XB1)KayAitch

Please stall Fortuna progress until consoles are supported

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Unpopular opinion here:

PC has had Fortuna for a couple of weeks. They've maxed out standing, built all the kitguns, etc.

Soon the next chapter will start and PC players will start unlocking the secrets of how kill the big mother orb spiders. 

It seems to be a really amazing time to be part of this community.

Only over on console we aren't. No Fortuna for us. Hopefully before Christmas, but the fact that it's more than a couple of weeks behind PC suggests that they have serious performance issues to resolve.

Online we're one community, already it's pretty much impossible to avoid finding out the Old Mate big reveal or anything else clearly intended as in game story progress.

On console we want to be part of this too.

So, please, can the next story chapter with Vox Solaris and the secrets of Fortuna be delayed until after we can join?

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You do realize PC players are more or less the beta testers of this game right? I get it that it's dumb to have everything spoiled but if DE decides to halt PC updates to release them on all platform at the same time, the game will be unplayable on console because of bugs.

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I agree, it stinks that we have such a big gap between PC and Console updates which wouldn't have been a really big deal if the internet wasn't flooded with spoilers mere minutes after a new update. I got to know about Ballas and the sword about a day after the Chimera update and it completely ruined my experience because I already knew everything about that quest by the time we got our hands on it. So it would definitely be nice if DE delayed big quests and events until both platforms are able to participate 

Edited by (PS4)Equinox21697
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What Drachnyn said.

 

Sure, we're gonna get Big Spidah-Momma's first, but at the same time this means that console won't have to suffer bugs like "All Rewards Lost upon Entering Fortuna" and such.

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Yeah of course you can enjoy the bugs we pc users get on all the updates too....

It's never going to happen on consoles due to the 'stricter' requirements necessary for a major release.

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6 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Yeah of course you can enjoy the bugs we pc users get on all the updates too....

It's never going to happen on consoles due to the 'stricter' requirements necessary for a major release.

I wonder then, if PC also had 'stricter' requirements, would you have less bugs to deal with?

Delayed PC releases to allow further testing time, so PC users get less bugs, also releases more in line with other platforms. Win-win?

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23 minutes ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

Unpopular opinion here:

PC has had Fortuna for a couple of weeks. They've maxed out standing, built all the kitguns, etc.

Soon the next chapter will start and PC players will start unlocking the secrets of how kill the big mother orb spiders. 

It seems to be a really amazing time to be part of this community.

Only over on console we aren't. No Fortuna for us. Hopefully before Christmas, but the fact that it's more than a couple of weeks behind PC suggests that they have serious performance issues to resolve.

Online we're one community, already it's pretty much impossible to avoid finding out the Old Mate big reveal or anything else clearly intended as in game story progress.

On console we want to be part of this too.

So, please, can the next story chapter with Vox Solaris and the secrets of Fortuna be delayed until after we can join?

On the one hand

Story Spoilers

on the other hand

Market Exploitation

 

as an exploiter, I'm fine with this tradeoff

tho I'd imagine, the people I trade with might not see any positives to the release schedules....

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1 minute ago, (PS4)haphazardlynamed said:

I wonder then, if PC also had 'stricter' requirements, would you have less bugs to deal with?

Delayed PC releases to allow further testing time, so PC users get less bugs, also releases more in line with other platforms. Win-win?

No it doesnt allow further testing if they delay it because the players on PC are the testers. So even if DE does some slight bug fixing due to delays there will still be 90% of the bugs left for the players to find.

DE doesnt set the strict requirements, Sony and M$ does. There is no unified PC distributor that DE needs to send patches off too in order to get the approved.

I dont think you get how much easier it is to develop for consoles that all use the exact same hardware and software setup compared to how it is for PC where there are thousands of configurations to take into account. 

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2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

No it doesnt allow further testing if they delay it because the players on PC are the testers. So even if DE does some slight bug fixing due to delays there will still be 90% of the bugs left for the players to find.

DE doesnt set the strict requirements, Sony and M$ does. There is no unified PC distributor that DE needs to send patches off too in order to get the approved. 

I dont think you get how much easier it is to develop for consoles that all use the exact same hardware and software setup compared to how it is for PC where there are thousands of configurations to take into account. 

Sounds like they have less quality control for PC, vs Consoles because with PC they aren't answering to anyone.

So... maybe DE needs to Set Strict Requirements Internally. and Test things themselves to the same rigorous standards that Sony and MS want. Instead of passing the burden onto PC users?

 

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11 minutes ago, (PS4)haphazardlynamed said:

I wonder then, if PC also had 'stricter' requirements, would you have less bugs to deal with?

Delayed PC releases to allow further testing time, so PC users get less bugs, also releases more in line with other platforms. Win-win?

Testing time doesn’t matter, especially with huge updates like this. There’s no chance a few people can bug test the whole game compared to millions of players. There’s also balancing issues and general additions 

 

  Just stop trying to come up with excuses, that’s just how things are and nobody can do anything about it 

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Just now, GinKenshin said:

Testing time doesn’t matter, especially with huge updates like this. There’s no chance a few people can bug test the whole game compared to millions of players. There’s also balancing issues and general additions 

 

  Just stop trying to come up with excuses, that’s just how things are and nobody can do anything about it 

Whatever

as a PS4 user, I don't have to make 'excuses' considering I actually enjoy seeing you PC guys test things out to be all smooth by the time I get it.

If you enjoy the trade of being a beta tester in exchange for early access. Then we're all good and in agreement. Everyone win.

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11 minutes ago, (PS4)haphazardlynamed said:

Sounds like they have less quality control for PC, vs Consoles because with PC they aren't answering to anyone.

So... maybe DE needs to Set Strict Requirements Internally. and Test things themselves to the same rigorous standards that Sony and MS want. Instead of passing the burden onto PC users?

 

But the thing is they cant because they dont have just two setups to optimize and iron out the bugs for, they have thousands when it comes to PCs.

Instead of getting your Fortuna in december everyone would have to wait until maybe febuary or march instead if DE were to solve it all before releasing it on any platform. Releasing it on PC first shortens the release delay for all platforms since the players are activley helping to solve the bugs far quicker than what it would take DE on their own.

But sure, if you want releases to be held back for a hand-in-hand release between consoles and PC go right ahead. It means a months delay for PC and a buggy mess for you as a trade. Hope you like bugs. And there is no way DE can hotfix your console update version like they can with PC several days in a row. Every patch needs an approval period. So you'd likely sit there with a month of bugs instead of a month extra for a polished release.

Edited by SneakyErvin
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25 minutes ago, (PS4)haphazardlynamed said:

I wonder then, if PC also had 'stricter' requirements, would you have less bugs to deal with?

Not likely in all honesty.

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47 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

You do realize PC players are more or less the beta testers of this game right? I get it that it's dumb to have everything spoiled but if DE decides to halt PC updates to release them on all platform at the same time, the game will be unplayable on console because of bugs.

Why, is it unplayable on PC?

I'm fine with the usual release schedule: console about a fortnight behind PC. I'm not asking for updates to be synced, just for the next big story chapter to be delayed until we have access to Fortuna.

12 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Releasing it on PC first shortens the release delay for all platforms since the players are activley helping to solve the bugs far quicker than what it would take DE on their own

I'm not so sure on that. Plenty of games can sync: Rocket League, Fortnight, Minecraft, all can. Elite and Overwatch have PC betas for testing before universal launches.

PC players aren't really beta testing - they're playing on their real accounts. They're more like early adopters.

That's fine for features, and a delay is fine for features.

I'm asking for the story to be delayed, so we can all enjoy it together without it being old news to half of us.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)haphazardlynamed said:

So... maybe DE needs to Set Strict Requirements Internally. and Test things themselves to the same rigorous standards that Sony and MS want. Instead of passing the burden onto PC users?

Internal testing can't compare to several thousand of players messing around in the game

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26 minutes ago, VentiGlondi said:

Internal testing can't compare to several thousand of players messing around in the game

No, it's significantly better. Thousands of PC players are gonna find odd incompatibility issues with obscure hardware and software, but they're not a patch on professional testers.

They'll test extensively before a PC release, and the cert for PS4/XB1 is all about testing it again on that hardware. The bugs that make it through (say the recent issue with Gram Prime's combo counter) tend to make it through on all platforms.

PC players really aren't beta testers. They're early adopters. While they do find occasional bugs they mostly influence balance, but then DE are never done tinkering with that.

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3 hours ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

Why, is it unplayable on PC?

I'm fine with the usual release schedule: console about a fortnight behind PC. I'm not asking for updates to be synced, just for the next big story chapter to be delayed until we have access to Fortuna.

I'm not so sure on that. Plenty of games can sync: Rocket League, Fortnight, Minecraft, all can. Elite and Overwatch have PC betas for testing before universal launches.

PC players aren't really beta testing - they're playing on their real accounts. They're more like early adopters.

That's fine for features, and a delay is fine for features.

I'm asking for the story to be delayed, so we can all enjoy it together without it being old news to half of us.

And there are far more companies/games that dont have simultaneous releases across all platforms.

WF simply needs the testing from the PC crowd since they cannot hotfix every single day on console, this includes story updates aswell. If they miss something for console, like a bugged out story that wont progress, you need to wait a lengthy period before that fix is able to go live. On PC that fix can be up in a matter of hours. These are things that easily miss the QA table but gets found by the hundreds of thousand PC players shortly after release. 

These are the things you never have to experience as a console player because we took care of it by having it first hand on PC. We have an easier time living with it because we know it will get fixed in the next few hours or days. The changes in WF are simply on a different scale than those of the games you mentioned. WF is in a constant beta where things keep changing and resulting in possible bugs.

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27 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

And there are far more companies/games that dont have simultaneous releases across all platforms.

There are, but not many in the top 10 on Steam. True multiplatform is a huge advantage, as these games live or die by concurrent players (ie how easy is it to get a match?)

29 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

The changes in WF are simply on a different scale than those of the games you mentioned

They really aren't. 18 months ago Fortnight was a zombie shooter tower-defence game with Overwatch-style characters. Epic can definitely be compared to DE given they made UT together.

All the games are in 'constant beta' these days. Look up Agile Software Development for more detail on why, but basically you ship early and add features rather than have big versions every few years. You can even see this trend in products like Windows which has gone from an XP or Vista every 2 years to Windows 10 getting a massive upgrade patch every 6 months.

However (and I do this for a living) a really key part of making that work is fixing bugs as early as possible. You have layers of testing before you even let your QA look at it. It might feel like it sometimes, but DE really aren't relying on their PC user base to test it for them.

And it's beside the point, or at least my point. Even if the PC master race are testing Fortuna features for us it's going to be completely spoiled online if they are months ahead of us on the story.

 

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DE has said before, that they would love to bring the Consoles to the same version as the PC. But that its simply Impossible to push out Fast hotfixes on Consoles due to the certification process of Sony and Microsoft.

PC had 14 patches since Fortuna released. Some only an hour apart from eachother!

Since Consoles all have the same hardware Bugs will hit not only "some"Players like on PC but ALL of them. Console players would revolt if they got a version in wich summoning a K-drive Chrashed the game for the whole party and had to wait 3-14days for a Patch to Cert.

(yes we had that Bug just 2 days ago on PC, -->Fortuna: Hotfix 24.1.1.1)

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On 2018-11-24 at 7:19 AM, (PS4)haphazardlynamed said:

I wonder then, if PC also had 'stricter' requirements, would you have less bugs to deal with?

Delayed PC releases to allow further testing time, so PC users get less bugs, also releases more in line with other platforms. Win-win?

PCs are not governed by standards. the developpers don't need to go through a microsoft or sony like entity to get a patch through
I get my patches from DE themselves, you get it from MS or Sony. So this way DE can fix the game faster.
 

what's better a small team of Testers paid by DE or MILLIONS of players with rigs ranging from potatoes to quantum computers? 
This way DE can fix bugs and release a patch within HOURS of release. (which they do btw, something you can't do with Sony or Microsoft) 
 

On 2018-11-24 at 11:00 AM, (XB1)KayAitch said:

While they do find occasional bugs they mostly influence balance, but then DE are never done tinkering with that.

This was just on the first 3 days after launch (there are 11 more patches after that, all containing bug fixes) 14 patches...in 17 days

  • Fixed a crash when pressing a Gear Hotkey for a slot that has no item.
  • Fixed a crash when attempting to return to Fortuna from Orb Vallis.
  • Fixes towards Rescue Vallis Bounty breaking when a Host migration occurred during the Defense phase.
  • Fixed Boon missing from certain K-Drive race locations in Orb Vallis.
  • Fixed a case of having permanent ability block if you get on K-Drive in certain areas near the Fortuna elevator.
  • Fixed a bug that could leave invincible enemies from Garuda’s Blood Altar that would prevent things like Defense missions from progressing.
  • Fixed K-Drives ignoring lasers and not triggering alarms.
  • Fixed issue where some Terra variants would sometimes target the wrong target with their beam attack.
  • Fixed K-Drive not being immune during a certain phase of the Vox Solaris quest.
  • Fixed getting stuck on your K-Drive in a certain pile of rocks in Vallis.
  • Fixes towards seeing poor lighting in Vallis that resulted in the ground appearing black.
  • Fixed Lure's not working when Master Volume is muted in Orb Vallis.
  • Fixed foliage textures out in Orb Vallis.
  • Fixed some sounds for the Vulcax.
  • Fixed some Operator Suit texture clipping.
  • Fixed a script error when a boss reinforcement occurs in Orb Vallis.
  • Fixed a script error when casting Garuda’s Seeking Talon ability. 
  • Fixed spamming left click before entering a grind giving more points then a normal grind.
  • Fixed Loki being able to Switch Teleport other players off their K-Drive and ride off into the snowy abyss while they cry in the snow. 
  • Fixed custom built K-Drives appearing to not be connected and animating separately. 
  • Fixed ability to K-Drive under water after ragdolling into it.
  • Fixed K-Drive jump FX lingering if the rider falls off while charging a jump.
  • Fixes towards wonky K-Drive movement/animations due to latency. 
  • Fixed a small hitch when using a K-Drive for the first time.
  • Fixed lingering K-Drive race Icons on the HUD.
  • Fixed the animal trail pulse FX not being visible for Clients.
  • Fixed a case where a Virmink trail would spawn Pobbers in the mountains.
  • Fixed slot 3 of the Fishing menu not populating after equipping a Pulse Spear. 
  • Fixed multiple Pulse sounds in a row for multiple animal encounters.
  • More fixes towards Lure's not working when Master Volume is muted in Orb Vallis.
  • Fixed a Darvo transmission perpetually playing in Fortuna if you captured an animal in Orb Vallis.
  • Fixed cases where Clients were unable to deal damage with the Pulse Spears.
  • Fixed inability to catch fish with the Pulse Spear when affected by Smeeta Kavat’s Crit buff.
  • Fixed Bonus Condition not being preserved when a Host migration occured. 
  • Fixed Drone level not scaling to reflect the zone difficulty.
  • Fixed a script error when failing the Drone Bounty.
  • Fixed unlocalized Bonus Condition text.
  • Fixes towards crashing when a Host migration occurs in Orb Vallis.
  • Fixed crashes on modern CPUs running antique operating systems.
  • Fixed a crash that could occur on some high-end systems with lots of GPU memory.
  • Fixed a crash when searching for Agents in a Vallis Bounty.
  • Fixed a crash related to squad mismatch and Host migration both occurring. 
  • Fixed the Credit Count resetting in the Assassinate stage of an Orb Vallis Bounty when a Host migration occured. 
  • Fixed inability to complete the Mastery Rank 24 test due to missing ‘continue’ option.
  • Fixed inability to equip Bite, Pack Leader, and Medi-Pet Kit on the Helminth Charger.
  • Fixed not actually receiving Servofish parts found in crates/containers in Vallis.
  • Fixed Garuda’s Animation Sets not being available for purchase.
  • Fixed Arbitrations hint not appearing in the World State Window for players that have almost completed the Star Chart.
  • Fixed ability to deploy Archwing before the Fortuna elevator comes to stop, resulting in becoming stuck.
  • Fixed the Ambush Coildrive attacking itself after a Host migration occurs. 
  • Fixed ability to roll while in Mesa’s Peacemaker without the Mesa Waltz Augment equipped.
  • Fixed ‘Vehicles’ displaying too low in Relay/Cetus/Fortuna Arsenal. 
  • Fixed Garuda’s Talons sometimes appearing motion blurred.
  • Fixed ‘Ostron Standing’ text appearing when talking to Eudico.
  • Fixed Eudico's interaction prompt not oscillating around Eudico.
  • Fixes towards wonky appearing Elemental FX on Garuda’s Idle animation.
  • Fixed the Guandao’s Elemental FX appearing incorrectly. 
  • Fixes numerous Noggles missing their head/body parts in the Dojo.
  • Fixed Cetus text appearing when Providing/Cutting Bait with Smokefinger.
  • Fixed other player’s FX being visible when interacting with the Solaris vendors.
  • Fixed Prime Armor FX showing up when they shouldn't (Star Chart etc).
  • Fixed rare case where you could fall out of the world after being teleported.
  • Fixed UI not indicating when a Solaris Offering grants more than 1 item.
  • Fixed certain Operator accessories clipping through torsos.
  • Fixed the Abrasys Syandana clipping through Garuda's arm cloth.
  • Fixed Ember’s Fireball ability not applying chosen Energy colors. 
  • Fixed incorrect material on hanging Gorgaricus Sacs. 
  • Fixed Bounty objective’s sometimes displaying in the incorrect language. 
  • Fixed a script error that resulted in losing your weapons reticle.
  • Fixed a script error when viewing a Blueprint Offering.
  • Fixed script error when casting any of Garuda’s abilities.
  • Fixed a case of matchmaking being tricked into sending people to Dojos instead of missions.
  • Fixed a crash when dismounting a K-Drive running the 32-bit version of Warframe.
  • Fixed not being able to roll with Mesa Waltz.
  • Potentially fixed Vox Solaris randomly failing after the Spy stage.
  • Fixed single lures being applied to multiple conservation trails in some cases.
  • Fixed script crash when fishing.

 

On 2018-11-24 at 7:59 AM, (XB1)KayAitch said:

Why, is it unplayable on PC?

yes, some people still can't play Fortuna on PC because of bugs that make their systems crash upon entering. 


Infinite monkeys on infinite typewriters can write Shakespeare's Hamlet play. 

the same applies here.

Millions of players will find more bugs than a team of 20-30 paid testers. 

On 2018-11-24 at 12:01 PM, (XB1)KayAitch said:

They really aren't. 18 months ago Fortnight was a zombie shooter tower-defence game with Overwatch-style characters. Epic can definitely be compared to DE given they made UT together.

you really think Fortnite, Rocket League, Minecraft and Overwatch and the other games you mentioned are on the same scale as Warframe? are we living in the same reality or are you just trolling?  

However I will give you that Elite is a complex game and does do a Beta Test Server and they are able to launch on all platforms at the same time... however I still the technical programming of Elite is still lower than Warframe, if you compare the amount of mechanics.

Now playing Devil's advocate since they are on the same version in console and PC I will say this.
Do you remember the gamebreaking mechanic of heat weapons??? how long did it take for them to fix that? 2-3 months? Gamebreaking Mechanic.... 2-3 months.... something that passed Internal Testing, passed Public Beta testing, passed concole patch certification. Only found by thousands of players trying different things.
 

DE would have had a gamebreaking mechanic fixed within hours at worse days... just saying
 

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8 hours ago, SqualZell said:

This was just on the first 3 days after launch (there are 11 more patches after that, all containing bug fixes) 14 patches...in 17 days

  • <snip>

Yeah, and their internal list will be 10 to 100 times that length. 

8 hours ago, SqualZell said:

Infinite monkeys on infinite typewriters can write Shakespeare's Hamlet play. 

the same applies here.

Millions of players will find more bugs than a team of 20-30 paid testers. 

I don't think you know how good professional testers are. Yeah,  ∞ monkeys and all that, but a professional tester is like an English Professor - they know Shakespeare's plays inside out.

It's not that the mass of users don't find things, it's that 1 pro tester is probably worth about 500,000 random users. 

8 hours ago, SqualZell said:

you really think Fortnite, Rocket League, Minecraft and Overwatch and the other games you mentioned are on the same scale as Warframe?

Scale is a difficult measure here. Warframe has an insane amount of content, a lot of it plain broken. Played Lunaro recently?

However, most of this is 'just' content, that's the easy bit to get on different platforms, especially as most of it targeted older hardware and they don't have tons of megatextures and the like to downgrade.

The hard bit is the low level kernel stuff, graphics cards and network code. There a rapid competitive game like Fortnight is probably harder to cross platform.

Overall it's hard to say. However, it's definitely possible for them to do that kind of release.

DE's issues with multiplatform are mostly legal/commercial, rather than technical. I do think PC-first is a good strategy for them, but XB1, Switch and PS4 (of Sony let it) should be together in one pool, and not this far behind.

8 hours ago, SqualZell said:

DE would have had a gamebreaking mechanic fixed within hours at worse days... just saying

Yeah, there's a reason I quit Elite. Well, that and being sick of every single mechanic being behind massive grind. Think like if every mod in Warframe took PoE Kin levels of grind to get, and then had a RNG mechanic that makes Rivens look awesome.

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8 minutes ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

It's not that the mass of users don't find things, it's that 1 pro tester is probably worth about 500,000 random users. 

maybe for quality control like

"Fixed ability to K-Drive under water after ragdolling into it."

but for things like

"Fixed rare case where you could fall out of the world after being teleported."
"Fixed a case of matchmaking being tricked into sending people to Dojos instead of missions. "
"Fixed Lure's not working when Master Volume is muted in Orb Vallis."
Fixed falling from the map when you hit a particular blade of grass

The game is so big that there is no way a team of pro testers can cover all possibilities and combinations in a reasonable amount of time and some may be gamebreaking. 

Not only that, some features barely make the deadline, that there is no time to test all of it. 

so your numbers, although i agree with the concept I would say 1 pro tester would be closer to 1000 general population. but 500k. 

56 minutes ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

However, most of this is 'just' content, that's the easy bit to get on different platforms, especially as most of it targeted older hardware and they don't have tons of megatextures and the like to downgrade.

it's not only hardware, it's operating system, drivers. It's the same difficulty to porting a game to MacOS for example. the program code needs to be changed since the architecture of the playstation xbox nintendo whatever is not the same as PC windows or even Linux. It's not just a case of copy paste. downgrading graphics is the easy part. 

 

in the end its all about timing and money (I think patching the consoles version costs money too, someone correct me if I'm wrong on this)
 

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