broken game balance Catchmoon and new way to increase difficulty with patch 24.1.1.1

[N2h2]

Well it's fun sometime to play with powerfull weapon. But what were you thinking about when you created catchmoon?

We have here a weapon more powerfull than arca plasmor with close mechanics, crit chances over 100% without any riven. More than 35K overall damages when built for radiation. fast reload, no ammo issue, And the "worst part" ability to kill a lvl 165 grineer with a single shot.
There are about no downside on this kitgun. It blow any NPC, anihilate any boss, punch through 15 NPC in an alley like they are paper sheet you shot with a nuclear missile.
At the point everything instantly turn easy as hell. So easy that whatever you do, there are not even a chance you don't one shot an NPC. the only reason you don't one shot bosses is the fact some mechanics prevent it, but as soon they are vulnerable again, they are dead.

Aiming? what for, it's a truck luncher that throw 3m diameter balls.

I'm usually not in the "nerf it" mood when it's about good weapons, but here they remains absolutely no reason to use any other weapon. any primary looks super weak compared to it.
What's my point?
well use it and the game turn instantly supêr boring without any challenge regarding kills. Don't use it and other players still do so it's like trying to get some kills in a lvl5 mission with a full builded saryn in your team.
To sum it up, it removes all game fun, and it put any other secondaries to trash weapon level.

There are many other OP weapon, but here it's totally overkill.

And about new difficulty in orb vallis?

Now the game tend to be balanced like it was on last patch for orb vallis to reinforce NPC damages. but they are still super weak again this weapon.
Start a "suvival" in any temple to rise NPC level, this weapon still one shot everything far after reaching the point where NPCs instantly kill any fram at the very moment they spawn.

So what remains with that weapon?
A game where balance is to the point of either you one shot everything but it's super boring with no challenge, and later? One shot or be one shotted... But still no fun at all.


Maybe it would be more nice to start thinking about an other way to scale difficulty on somthing else than damages. Starting by diminishing this weapon damage, and maybe to increase NPC health instead of giving them this way to much damage in orb vallis. that probably would make the game a bit more challenging than a one shot party for both faction (tenno / npc).


I really would like to hear other players feeling about that, because actually in my clan we are a lot thinking the same way, more damage can be sometime fun, but too much just turn everything boring. And giving more and more damages to NPC to increase difficulty turn to much frame into trashes.
Maybe more resistances and less damage would bring more challenge without the huge frustration being one shot as soon as an npc spawn.

[Gunslinger]

It's "intended". (players are going to grind like crazy to get their hands on the new powerful weapons)
What are the best melees in the game? Indeed kit-melees from Konzu.
And now the best secondaries are the ones from Fortuna. Guess how are the primaries gonna be when the next open world releases.

To be clear I support you 100% I don't like that the "mix&match" weapons are the meta. 

[Shiichibukai]

Please stop talking about Balance so much in a pve coop game. Let ppl enjoy what they grind for without making a whiney thread about how "broken" something is.

[---Merchant---]

3 minutes ago, N2h2 said:

Well it's fun sometime to play with powerfull weapon. But what were you thinking about when you created catchmoon?

We have here a weapon more powerfull than arca plasmor with close mechanics, crit chances over 100% without any riven. More than 35K overall damages when built for radiation. fast reload, no ammo issue, And the "worst part" ability to kill a lvl 165 grineer with a single shot.
There are about no downside on this kitgun. It blow any NPC, anihilate any boss, punch through 15 NPC in an alley like they are paper sheet you shot with a nuclear missile.
At the point everything instantly turn easy as hell. So easy that whatever you do, there are not even a chance you don't one shot an NPC. the only reason you don't one shot bosses is the fact some mechanics prevent it, but as soon they are vulnerable again, they are dead.

Aiming? what for, it's a truck luncher that throw 3m diameter balls.

I'm usually not in the "nerf it" mood when it's about good weapons, but here they remains absolutely no reason to use any other weapon. any primary looks super weak compared to it.
What's my point?
well use it and the game turn instantly supêr boring without any challenge regarding kills. Don't use it and other players still do so it's like trying to get some kills in a lvl5 mission with a full builded saryn in your team.
To sum it up, it removes all game fun, and it put any other secondaries to trash weapon level.

There are many other OP weapon, but here it's totally overkill.

And about new difficulty in orb vallis?

Now the game tend to be balanced like it was on last patch for orb vallis to reinforce NPC damages. but they are still super weak again this weapon.
Start a "suvival" in any temple to rise NPC level, this weapon still one shot everything far after reaching the point where NPCs instantly kill any fram at the very moment they spawn.

So what remains with that weapon?
A game where balance is to the point of either you one shot everything but it's super boring with no challenge, and later? One shot or be one shotted... But still no fun at all.


Maybe it would be more nice to start thinking about an other way to scale difficulty on somthing else than damages. Starting by diminishing this weapon damage, and maybe to increase NPC health instead of giving them this way to much damage in orb vallis. that probably would make the game a bit more challenging than a one shot party for both faction (tenno / npc).


I really would like to hear other players feeling about that, because actually in my clan we are a lot thinking the same way, more damage can be sometime fun, but too much just turn everything boring. And giving more and more damages to NPC to increase difficulty turn to much frame into trashes.
Maybe more resistances and less damage would bring more challenge without the huge frustration being one shot as soon as an npc spawn.

Is this joke? I ask before reacting.
I mean it is ok gun,it does even kill stuff at MELEE range pretty fine untill some point, but I do not call that OP  considering we do that already just faster with you know,actual melee weapons.

Did you ever use sniper rifles? Hell,even kohm does outdps it.I mean to have big damage number sure is sweet,but realistically what does that number mean with that dog ship range,fire rate and magazine size( I say ship,leave me alone.)


It is better than any secondary shotgun i can think of,that much is true.

[N2h2]

Yes snipers deal tons of damages. But in that case you have to aim.. Here we have somthing that litteraly throw walls. and Actually range is really not an issue or even a downside.
Concidering 40m as melee range. mheeee XDDDD

And no mr angry Shiichibukai, letting people enjoy what they farm for is a thing, seeing a mechanics totally broken without telling anything is somthing else.

Actually main issue for "end game is that take forever to find FUN CHALLENGE", because you have to wait for over an hour in survival to get a bit of difficulty and start using frames more smart then just randomly spamming spells and kill everything with a single shot.

Maybe you should try it in kuva survival  and see after more than an hour of run you still clean any alley filled with 20 npcs with a single shot. But maybe you can find some fun doing nothing while playing. Maybe some other player play to get a bit of entertainment with some challenge, not looking everything melt with a single clic during an hour.
 

[AXCrusnik]

36 minutes ago, Shiichibukai said:

Please stop talking about Balance so much in a pve coop game. Let ppl enjoy what they grind for without making a whiney thread about how "broken" something is.

While I haven't used the kitguns in question to see how bad the balance it... PvE coop is not a valid excuse to let things get out of hand.

[---Merchant---]

5 minutes ago, AXCrusnik said:

While I haven't used the kitguns in question to see how bad the balance it... PvE coop is not a valid excuse to let things get out of hand.

I m literally wearing it right now and it is not even good enough for me to not wear other kitgun instead.
I too agree that pve coop is not valid excuse,but to nerf something because it can blast things at melee range is not so great idea either.

 

[iuki.]

yea, i am just going to enjoy the catchamoon while it lasts. :\

Edited November 25, 2018 by iuki.

[xcenic]

World are so weird. Were complaining about a easy and accessible for all weapon to compensate fortuna difficulties on a total pve game? 

For God sake. 

In my county we have a phrase; abajo el que suba!!

We complain for anything to everything and to anyone just because we have to.

Edited November 25, 2018 by xcenic

[Kuestenjung]

vor 55 Minuten schrieb Shiichibukai:

Please stop talking about Balance so much in a pve coop game. Let ppl enjoy what they grind for without making a whiney thread about how "broken" something is.

Only if you stop with this bullS#&$ that PvE needs no balance.

Maybe DE should bring back the original Nullifiers, Bursas and Maniacs.

[MARALOHK]

If you want to know the downside, the down side is the very fact that the shot is so large, while at the same time the gun has no innate punch through. So the wonderfully large "walls" you fire at your enemies will be stopped by hitting the slightest obstacle in your path. You are almost forced to use punch through with catchmoon if you actually want to connect with your target in tight quarters. And in large open spaces? It has falloff.

[Daughteru]

Kill a 165 grineer with a single shot? Are you talking about heavy or light units? Because many guns can do that to light units but none can do that to heavy. What are you trying to get at here?

[Eathian]

This gun is actually kinda meh. Get a Staticor. It's a way better secondary.

[ThumpumGood]

I played when people ran a mission til the mobs were lv 300+. There's your balance. See how well that Arca Plasmor does then.  Seriously, you want things to be more difficult, then make them more difficult by continuing passed the point when everyone is running for the exit. Really wish there was a point at which you could choose what level to start the mobs at. Lv 1-150 is pretty easy for the established player.

HOWEVER! Established players get bored when they figure out alll of the game mechanics and they leave. The game has to be geared toward the newbie in order to bring in new money. The separation of these 2 modes of play is the worst part of every MMO I have ever played. Unless it cant be programmed(and Im pretty sure it can be) there should be an option for players who have completed something to show they can take it or want to take it, to be able to select the start level of the mobs. The loot tables dont have to change. They werent different for playing to lv 300 back then so they dont need to be improved or added to for this option.

[AXCrusnik]

7 hours ago, Kuestenjung said:

Only if you stop with this bullS#&$ that PvE needs no balance.

Maybe DE should bring back the original Nullifiers, Bursas and Maniacs.

Nervos, Nervos everywhere.

I m literally wearing it right now and it is not even good enough for me to not wear other kitgun instead.
I too agree that pve coop is not valid excuse,but to nerf something because it can blast things at melee range is not so great idea either.

Never said that it should be nerfed, which is specifically why I said I had not used them, but again many people seem to think that because Warframe is a PvE Coop game balance does not matter.

Edited November 25, 2018 by AXCrusnik

[JohnKable]

honestly arca plasmor still feels much better for me. it can be built for rad+corrosive together literally melting the hardest enemies in the game till sortie level (it sux past that but who cares)

and aside from the reload speed  everything else is just better to me, wider range shots that dont disappear for hitting a leaf. 

Catchmoon is great but its very limited in its utility or killing potential, it does big numers for sure. people like to see big numbers, but it doesnt actually offer much more other than that.
IMHO literally all 3 the other kitguns offer much more versatility and customisation, and as a result are more powerful. Catchmon does just one thing, shooting big balls and doing 40k+ each. unless the enemy is a level 80 armored. and you can build it for a great deal of radiation, yes. but radiation is really good against the less used armor. corrosive is good against an entire faction except bombards

all that for saying i think its fine, it just doesnt deserve 3/5 disposition. but the same goes for other kitguns and most zaws

[Reifnir]

11 hours ago, N2h2 said:

To sum it up, it removes all game fun, and it put any other secondaries to trash weapon level.

If it removes "fun" for you, don't build it, don't use it or don't forma/potato it - problem solved. 

There are numerous weapons capable of melting stuff down - Kohm, Ignis and Amprex are perfect examples of "point that way and kill", and that's just off the top of my head.

Pyrana Prime is a weapon of mass destruction, and don't even get me started on Zaws - last time I checked primaries/secondaries don't do THIS, with a spammable attack that doesn't even need ammo. Mind you, this is NOT a meme strike build, even. And if we remember Warframes have abilities (like Mesa's Piecemaker, which DE somehow misspelled as Peacemaker)... Oh, boy, did those poor Grineer/Corpus ever stand a chance... 

[N2h2]

Is that possible to speak about player feel and though without getting back any insulte? well seems hard.
Remember, you can have a different opinion, but when you reach the point your only cogent argument is an insulte,  that's maybe because you have nothing at all to say.

First, Thanks not to bring your toxic mentality here, if you're angry, take a break, do somthing else, but your frustration have nothing to do here. It doesn't affect me in any way and just prove you're able to be an ass.

Second, maybe you can start by reading everything before throwing up things like " who achieve nothing constructive "... I put some fact, some may disagree, but it's still a fact. this weapon deals far more damages than people tend to admit here.

Last, advices like "don't use it / don't build it/ ..." have absolutely no sense. I already stopped to play it, as soon as i saw this weapon is a game fun breaking. but guess what... Now majority of players are able to get it, and guess what happen in every single mission... people over abuse it.

As i said before, that's only good about turning the game in a one shot fest whatever ennemies lvl. Soo what is the conclusion of that? play a multiplayer game alone or waste your time being AFK because every mission you'll do will have absolutely no challenge?

Sorry, i told it before, I hate to reach the point i'm starting thinking about the fact something should be rebalanced by nerfing it. But what's the point of playing a game if you don't even play because there is a one shot everything key on your keyboard?

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by N2h2

[Reifnir]

1 hour ago, N2h2 said:

Is that possible to speak about player feel and though without getting back any insulte?

Nope. Not when you're actively trying to dismantle things that make the game fun for me. You and your whining kind want to play with peashooters and spend 10 minutes killing an enemy or maybe 50 minutes killing one set of Eidolons? Well, duh, I want to annihilate entire crowds with a sneeze and don't give a rat's behind about "balance". If I did, I'd be playing different games. 

Yes, I love the fact that my multi-forma weapons on my arcane-equipped Warframes can melt stuff. I love charging into crowds with builds that allow me to kill and not get killed, to farm stuff quickly and efficiently, to facetank enemies with rocket launchers and flamethrowers or to dash around levels invisible at breakneck speeds, stabbing stuff to death. Thank <insert deity of choice here> Warframe allows me to do so. 

[SneakyErvin]

How can you compare it to Arca Plasmor?

One shoots a "ball" with no innate punch through, the other fires a wide wave with infinite punch through. Of course Catchmoon will look good versus single or targets very close together. It still requires a mod slot for punch through and it cannot fill the multi purpose of Arca Plasmor and a corrosive/radiation or radiation/gas setup.

I can see the Cathmoon as an interesting secondary for armor stripping frames that wants to utilize a heavy hitting Gas weapon. The innate heat lets you easily skip heat mods on the weapon and just focus on toxin+damage. With the right components and build it can become a nice hybrid secondary gas weapon.

[Reifnir]

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

With the right components and build it can become a nice hybrid secondary gas weapon.

Apparently, we can't have nice things. Only mediorce ones and <insert deity of choice> forbid they're functional WITHOUT rivens! Atrocity!

/sarcasm

[Oreades]

11 hours ago, Void-Gunslinger said:

It's "intended". (players are going to grind like crazy to get their hands on the new powerful weapons)
What are the best melees in the game? Indeed kit-melees from Konzu.
And now the best secondaries are the ones from Fortuna. Guess how are the primaries gonna be when the next open world releases.

To be clear I support you 100% I don't like that the "mix&match" weapons are the meta. 

Am I tho? I hate the Gilding system because it's redundant and it's only contribution to the game is additional tedium between the player and MRXP. 

Plus I already have enough power. So far I've crafted exactly one Zaw for memes because I wanted to name it and I had a Zaw riven so I figured why not. I regretted every moment of leveling that thing TWICE, just so I could name it Ginosaji. From my experience if I ever have the urge to name something again I'll just spend the plat to name a standard weapon. 

Not to mention the inevitability of the impending nerfs to the kitguns and their Arcanes, that I will take great pleasure in being no where near when they drop. 

 

Edit:

Tho for full disclosure I have leveled every Amp but mostly because Operators have literally no other choices. I've also fully leveled one of the Moas and taken a second to the pre-gilding phase before I said heck it and went to do other things. MOAs are lucky they're heckin cute but not quite that cute. 

Edited November 25, 2018 by Oreades

[Guest]

Man another nerf thread. Wonder when these will stop appearing.

Catchmoon is actually pretty much a short ranged grenade launcher with no self damage. It scales off quite painfully against armor down the road unless you strip the armor and most likely the projectile explodes against some railing you thought was not going to hit it and you waste a shot.

Take the Catchmoon out of Hydron and the Corridors, boi. It doesn't quite do as well when the range gets long.

[German]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb Shiichibukai:

Please stop talking about Balance so much in a pve coop game. Let ppl enjoy what they grind for without making a whiney thread about how "broken" something is.

Proper endgame is the most wanted thing from the general playerbase.

You can't have a challenging, fun and rewarding endgame with the unbalanced mess we are having right now.

[Reifnir]

2 hours ago, German said:

Proper endgame is the most wanted thing from the general playerbase.

You can't have a challenging, fun and rewarding endgame with the unbalanced mess we are having right now.

Proper endgame needs to be well, *proper*.

Nerfing stuff to make existing trivial content less trivial is not proper by any means.