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A possible solution to leeching?


RealHeftyTrout
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Disable tranqs, fishing rods, you pretty much have no reason to use these during bounties. Limit Ventkid standing (not completely remove but limit the amount received). When the bounty is said and done/failed. 1 player can choose another bounty and have a vote yadda yadda yadda yadda (gotta avoid that copyright), pretty basic. 

Edited by RealHeftyTrout
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Given anyone in a party can queue a bounty within Orb Vallis, it would be frustrating when you try and go off into the open world and some other player starts a bounty and it blocks what you were trying to accomplish and forcing you into a solo instance.

Likewise, punishing slow players with no standing because they didn't Itzal blink 20 times to the objective and complete it within seconds is a bad precedent to set.

There is a solution already implemented to the game: Report leeching players to Digital Extremes with proper evidence through support and find a new group.

Edited by Voltage
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41 minutes ago, Voltage said:

There is a solution already implemented to the game: Report leeching players to Digital Extremes with proper evidence through support

They need to add this into the game, leeching is a reoccurring problem in almost every game mode yet we have to go to great lengths to report such behaviour and don't even know if DE actually does anything about it 

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An alternative solution could be to have all hunting/fishing/mining rewards to be universally shared within the squad. It will not deal with all types of leeching, but I would not mind carrying some squad members in a bounty if I got paid in materials.

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1 hour ago, Frebben said:

An alternative solution could be to have all hunting/fishing/mining rewards to be universally shared within the squad. It will not deal with all types of leeching, but I would not mind carrying some squad members in a bounty if I got paid in materials.

Solution doesn't solve anything besides giving you some resources now that you may or may not want. If anything, it only risks creating more leeching because it gives people an easy excuse out of not participating in the bounty that they selected. Also a great way to completely destroy Free Roam mode.

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7 hours ago, RealHeftyTrout said:

Disable tranqs, fishing rods, you pretty much have no reason to use these during bounties. Limit Ventkid standing (not completely remove but limit the amount received). When the bounty is said and done/failed. 1 player can choose another bounty and have a vote yadda yadda yadda yadda (gotta avoid that copyright), pretty basic. 

When I tend to run bounties with friends, we take turns with one or two people going fishing and the others running the bounty since they are quite easy.

We are probably not the only group that does this.

 

6 hours ago, ThumpumGood said:

I would prefer a boot feature. One person initiates the boot, other 2 have to agree before person is summarily kicked from party.

NO. This would just open the gates for toxic people to punish others for not playing the way tthey want.

The amount of hate I got when I leveled Limbo (I did not use any abilities and brought strong weapons) was enough to see that a kick option should not be in this game.

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I wouldnt mind if they implement what the OP suggests. As he/she says there is no reason to have mining, fishing and conservation tools available when doing a bounty.

Currently when I run into leechers I just start the bounty objective when they are off in the distance doing their fishing etc. and just let it fail. This way I ruin their leeching and place a safeguard on the current instance so others cant join and end up with these leechers as I leave.

If you just wanna farm there is always free roam, either solo or in groups. No one expects you to do anything specific there.

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9 hours ago, RealHeftyTrout said:

Disable tranqs, fishing rods, you pretty much have no reason to use these during bounties. Limit Ventkid standing (not completely remove but limit the amount received). When the bounty is said and done/failed. 1 player can choose another bounty and have a vote yadda yadda yadda yadda (gotta avoid that copyright), pretty basic. 

I'm strangely OK with that, while I'd miss picking up the occasional mining node on the way to a leg of the bounty. 

It won't solve leeching, but at least they won't get additional benefits on top of getting free bounty loot. Most of them will probably just start sitting near the Gate/Elevator. 

I'd probably go full bore with the no-Ventkid standing during bounties. Since the amount of standing you get from regular travel with a trick here or there is pretty darn nominal, so if you're going for Ventkid standing you're already grinding that specifically. At the very least I'd definitely disable the races during bounties. 

 

Edit: 

I'd probably make the "no side benefits" exclusive to "Public" bounty matchmaking. If people are in Friends/Invite only/solo, I don't think it should apply to them. At that point if they want to take two hours to do one bounty because they keep taking mining/fishing breaks or hard carry a friend while said friend wonders around mining, that's on them.

 

8 hours ago, (PS4)Equinox21697 said:

They need to add this into the game, leeching is a reoccurring problem in almost every game mode yet we have to go to great lengths to report such behaviour and don't even know if DE actually does anything about it 

While I agree that the extra steps we have to go through are a real pain and essentially mean that the leech has stolen our time twice if we decide to report them. 

To the point that I can't be bothered to report people 90% of the time and tend to only if we either "get the good thing" or "fail because someone conspicuously wasn't there". Rest assured the second I notice leeching behavior I've already started to document it. "If you notice them why don't you just leave" I can hear clattering away in some leech sympathizers head and because my friend, I generally don't notice them until I'm on the third or fourth bounty before I notice that "hey there are only three (including myself) icons on the minimap at our location" at which point I'm not about to throw away all my actual work or take the time to beg some leech to actually do the thing they agreed to do by selecting the bounty. 

That said they really need a more robust reporting mechanism in place when they implement it in game (hopefully they eventually do) because too many people can't differentiate between an actual bounty leecher and someone who just has a substandard "Total Damage" score on the End of Mission screen. So I'm pretty sure the reason that it isn't in game is to attempt to curb the flood of false flagging on people who just don't have 5 forma in their weapons or aren't running a Mesa but are still trying to contribute. 

Edited by Oreades
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28 minutes ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

Enough is enough

This trend of posting threads about leeching is getting old.  There are already a half dozen of them that have been posted in the past weekend alone.

I'm beginning to wonder if this can be considered spam at this point.

Almost like people consider leeching to be a problem that needs to be addressed 

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7 minutes ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

If they considered the common sense solutions these threads wouldn't exist

It's not a solution if the (source of the) problem is still there i.e. the actual players doing the leeching.

Just because people do what you say and run away crying the moment a leecher loads into their game, doesn't mean suddenly the problem disappears.

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13 hours ago, Voltage said:

Given anyone in a party can queue a bounty within Orb Vallis, it would be frustrating when you try and go off into the open world and some other player starts a bounty and it blocks what you were trying to accomplish and forcing you into a solo instance.

Likewise, punishing slow players with no standing because they didn't Itzal blink 20 times to the objective and complete it within seconds is a bad precedent to set.

There is a solution already implemented to the game: Report leeching players to Digital Extremes with proper evidence through support and find a new group.

But why are you choosing to fish or mine in a public match?

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2 hours ago, unagy said:

It's not a solution if the (source of the) problem is still there i.e. the actual players doing the leeching.

Just because people do what you say and run away crying the moment a leecher loads into their game, doesn't mean suddenly the problem disappears.

I mentioned running away and crying?  News to me

The point (once again) is that while what they are doing is annoying af it is not a problem that the offended cannot fix themselves.  I keep hearing about vote kicks and flags and all sorts of other nonsense which will only trade leechers for trolls and zealots.  You have all these options to bypass the random nature of leeches and yet all the focus is on finding a "solution" that will cause many more problems than it "fixes". 

What many of the people are suggesting is the equivalent of swimming in shark invested waters, and rather than use another beach, they suggest ATTEMPTING TO DROWN THE SHARKS.  It's like some players just want to make the process difficult just to be difficult.

I'm done with this subject.  If players wish to be dense to measures the game clearly provides, then that's their problem.

Edited by (XB1)Thy Divinity
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17 hours ago, Helch0rn said:

When I tend to run bounties with friends, we take turns with one or two people going fishing and the others running the bounty since they are quite easy.

We are probably not the only group that does this.

 

NO. This would just open the gates for toxic people to punish others for not playing the way tthey want.

The amount of hate I got when I leveled Limbo (I did not use any abilities and brought strong weapons) was enough to see that a kick option should not be in this game.

You're worrying about nothing. The people you're worrying about solo or set the group to invite only or friends only and dont let anyone that doesnt play their way join their party. They NEVER do pugs. Your premise is looked at from a point of view that is misinformed. The *toxic* people that you refer to, are perfectionists. The min/max everything and can solo the whole game.

I fit in with both these guys and most everyone else. I want this feature for the guy who is mining while the rest of us do all of the work. I want this for the guy who is in an alert or an invasion and is wandering around opening containers while the rest of us do all of the work and then have to wait for the timer to run out before we can run another one. I want this for the people who think that it's cool to waste my time. If you're struggling, Im good with that. Some people have off days, some are new and some havent figured out a good mod set for their gear. Those people Im good with because they are at least trying.

As stated... those people wasting my time are the toxic ones that make me want to beat my computer to death. And I would like a feature to boot them. And the rest of the party usually agrees with me. I remember being new to Warframe. I know when some one is new or just being a d-bag and thinks its fun to troll people or just thinks that it's kewl for everyone else to carry them. THAT's the real toxicity. And to keep a single person from booting some one, having it be a 3 person vote, makes it so one person cant be a jerk.

Your worry is unfounded. Sounds to me like you think you would be one of the ones who got voted out.

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4 hours ago, ThumpumGood said:

You're worrying about nothing. The people you're worrying about solo or set the group to invite only or friends only and dont let anyone that doesnt play their way join their party. They NEVER do pugs. Your premise is looked at from a point of view that is misinformed. The *toxic* people that you refer to, are perfectionists. The min/max everything and can solo the whole game.

I fit in with both these guys and most everyone else. I want this feature for the guy who is mining while the rest of us do all of the work. I want this for the guy who is in an alert or an invasion and is wandering around opening containers while the rest of us do all of the work and then have to wait for the timer to run out before we can run another one. I want this for the people who think that it's cool to waste my time. If you're struggling, Im good with that. Some people have off days, some are new and some havent figured out a good mod set for their gear. Those people Im good with because they are at least trying.

As stated... those people wasting my time are the toxic ones that make me want to beat my computer to death. And I would like a feature to boot them. And the rest of the party usually agrees with me. I remember being new to Warframe. I know when some one is new or just being a d-bag and thinks its fun to troll people or just thinks that it's kewl for everyone else to carry them. THAT's the real toxicity. And to keep a single person from booting some one, having it be a 3 person vote, makes it so one person cant be a jerk.

Your worry is unfounded. Sounds to me like you think you would be one of the ones who got voted out.

the way you want to use it and the way others would use it are not neccessarily the same.

If I am "greeted" on joining the mission with things like "limbo go kill yourself" and demands to engage in intercourse with my mother I can hardly believe that I was at fault.

just to remind you: I was leveling limbo without using abilities because I know he can be cancer

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On 2018-11-26 at 4:20 AM, Helch0rn said:

the way you want to use it and the way others would use it are not neccessarily the same.

If I am "greeted" on joining the mission with things like "limbo go kill yourself" and demands to engage in intercourse with my mother I can hardly believe that I was at fault.

just to remind you: I was leveling limbo without using abilities because I know he can be cancer

Well, if your limbo is trying to be a frost, then I can see that attitude. So many people dont realize that all they do by playing a Frimbo is frustrating other people. Limbo 4 use as it SHOULD be... let them swarm you, cast 4, hit 4 again... boom all dead. So I get why people tell limbos to go kill themselves. But that's not the point. If you dont want to have it happen, get in a clan and run with buddies. This is for pugs. This is for those not participating.

The only other option is to have a set up where, if you have it set up for public, have a window pop up that gives you the ability to set frame requirements... IE I have my Ember, I go to public, window pops up and I put in Oberon, Necros and Hydroid. I/we dont get to run til I get those in the group. Or just play with friends so you dont have to worry about it.

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il y a 3 minutes, ThumpumGood a dit :

Well, if your limbo is trying to be a frost, then I can see that attitude. So many people dont realize that all they do by playing a Frimbo is frustrating other people. Limbo 4 use as it SHOULD be... let them swarm you, cast 4, hit 4 again... boom all dead. So I get why people tell limbos to go kill themselves. But that's not the point. If you dont want to have it happen, get in a clan and run with buddies. This is for pugs. This is for those not participating.

Except that is his point, he'd get kicked for participating in the public group.
Why add in a feature to remove one toxic behaviour while allowing another one to grow?

He's clearly playing the way the game intended, protecting the target, but in this scenario the other three players shares a hate for the character and decides to troll him by vote-kicking him before the last wave.
If the other team didn't want any limbo, they could've private group, they shouldn't suddenly get the right to dictate who gets to play what just because they are a majority of friends.

Limbo's cataclysm covers a wide range over a long duration along with all of limbo's rift synergies, it's very clear how it "should" be used, but that's not up to you to vote-kick someone depending on your personal opinion on an ability.

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30 minutes ago, (PS4)XxDarkyanxX said:

Except that is his point, he'd get kicked for participating in the public group.
Why add in a feature to remove one toxic behaviour while allowing another one to grow?

He's clearly playing the way the game intended, protecting the target, but in this scenario the other three players shares a hate for the character and decides to troll him by vote-kicking him before the last wave.
If the other team didn't want any limbo, they could've private group, they shouldn't suddenly get the right to dictate who gets to play what just because they are a majority of friends.

Limbo's cataclysm covers a wide range over a long duration along with all of limbo's rift synergies, it's very clear how it "should" be used, but that's not up to you to vote-kick someone depending on your personal opinion on an ability.

Again... that's what clans are for. Im in a clan and I do both because we're small. I would never care that my style doesnt match theirs. And the more you protest, the more I think you're scared because you're a troll who doesnt help out the group. Q: Why would some one be against a kick feature? A: Because they do things that would get them kicked.

Your example is a rare occurrence. And one that you are trying to present as the rule instead of the exception it would be.

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1 hour ago, ThumpumGood said:

Well, if your limbo is trying to be a frost, then I can see that attitude. So many people dont realize that all they do by playing a Frimbo is frustrating other people. Limbo 4 use as it SHOULD be... let them swarm you, cast 4, hit 4 again... boom all dead. So I get why people tell limbos to go kill themselves. But that's not the point. If you dont want to have it happen, get in a clan and run with buddies. This is for pugs. This is for those not participating.

The only other option is to have a set up where, if you have it set up for public, have a window pop up that gives you the ability to set frame requirements... IE I have my Ember, I go to public, window pops up and I put in Oberon, Necros and Hydroid. I/we dont get to run til I get those in the group. Or just play with friends so you dont have to worry about it.

your reading comprehension seems to be lacking. read my post again.

- I was insulted immediately when I joined the mission

- I did not use skills because his skill can be cancerous

- I brought weapons strong enough to defend myself

as for this "run with friends attitude": If you don't want certain frames in your group use recruiting and don't tell people what they can or can not use in public missions

 

31 minutes ago, ThumpumGood said:

Again... that's what clans are for. Im in a clan and I do both because we're small. I would never care that my style doesnt match theirs. And the more you protest, the more I think you're scared because you're a troll who doesnt help out the group. Q: Why would some one be against a kick feature? A: Because they do things that would get them kicked.

"if you don't like my idea you obviously are a leech"ever heard of Blackstones ratio?

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"

I would rather deal with all the leeches in the world than have one person unjustly kicked

 

but by your logic I am obviously a murderer too because I think that it's better to let 10 murderers go than to convict 1 innocent man

Edited by Helch0rn
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