How to make PvP great (you're welcome)

[Jakomaru]

Spoiler

first of all, i was playing team annihilation in the conclave just now. i'm mastery rank 18 so i have a pretty good inventory in this game. i was on a team alone against two players. they were mastery rank 0 and mastery rank 1. they had the kind of gear like they literally just started playing this game within the past couple of hours. literally the first weapons you get in this game. i was using my loki prime. full disclosure i am not very good in the conclave, but i like to think that my sheer experience in this game should at least make me not fodder in conclave. these guys were shooting me with damn near 100% accuracy as soon as i came into the same area of the map they were in. even while i was invisible, even while parkour-ing through the air at a fast speed. how is this even possible?

So here we are. obviously DE wants feedback to make this game better. i am here to provide. i've been playing warframe for quite a while. there were a few points in time where i was playing this game obsessively. lately my desire to play games has greatly diminished along with the free time i once had to play games. to play warframe pve and make a lot of progress requires many hours per day of playing. i simply cannot do this anymore and have no desire to. so the next best way to play warframe in my situation is PVP. the problem with this is that pvp as it is right now is just......... not for me. apparently many other people feel the same way. i know why, and i know how to solve this problem.

the problem with pvp is that it is essentially a lesser version of pve but with players battling each other instead of npcs. people want to be able to use the full capabilities of their warframes and weapons. if one version of the game (pve) allows for gear to be used to full capacity but the other version of the game (pvp) has severe limitations in comparison, then players will opt for the version with less restrictions not only because that is what they are more used to, but because it's simply better. the two versions of the game are simply not divided properly. it's a half assed division.

the solution? simply revamp the way that pve and pvp are separated. start fresh and give each warframe a completely different set of abilities for pvp. pvp should have its own set of weapons as well. the abilities of warframes and the stats of weapons were designed to kill npcs, not warframes. this is why pvp is simply not desirable for most players. DE was on the right track with having a different set of mods for pvp. it's time to take it all the way. speaking of mods, most of the current pvp mods seem quite boring. we need an entirely new set of  warframe and weapon mods dedicated for pvp based around the new system i proposed.

Example:
i'm not the kind of person to give dry advice, so of course i have an example to offer. as warframe active and passive abilities are right now, they are simply not good in pvp. as i explained before, these abilities were not designed for pvp and therefore the severe restrictions make the experience feel less than half assed.

loki's decoy ability and invisibility ability are just not good in pvp. a new ability can be sort of a combination of both of these. let's call this example ability "Psyche". this ability can be activated and last a set period of time. whenever loki is attacked. this ability will allow a chance for the attack to simply pass through loki and not damage him. also the area that loki is attacked in becomes completely invisible for 3 or so seconds. This ability is much more suited for pvp because it does not spawn a useless and obviously fake decoy that no one falls for, and it does not attempt to make the entirety of loki invisible for a long period of time and therefore does not need to be restricted in such a severe manner.
there should be little to no toggle abilities in pvp because players should be using energy with tactics and strategy in mind. having a toggle ability draining energy over time does not allow for practical use of tactics and strategy in pvp.

as for weapons, like i said before pvp will need a completely new set of weapons dedicated for pvp alone. the current weapons were not designed for use against tenno and therefore the weapon stats and capabilities of the weapon are often extremely unbalanced and impractical. accuracy for these new pvp weapons should be generally higher than pve weapons to allow for combat between fully functioning warframes.
warframes generally fall under specific categories when it comes to survivability. some warframes have decent to high hp with decent to high armor. there is low to decent hp and decent to high shields. of course there are few warframes with extremely low hp and extremely high shields or no shields and extremely high hp. the new pvp weapons should reflect that and allow players to select weapons in preparation for these possible opponents. as it stands now, the stats on weapons are often too lopsided. shields are a fast regenerating resource, but with a slash proc the hp can be damaged directly. this does not always happen but when it does it can be unfair depending on the frame in use. perhaps you understand what i am getting at.
the only non hitscan weapons should be weapons with functions similar to the talons weapon.

as for mods, there should definitely be a new set of augmentation mods for each warframe to account for the new set of abilities. using the example loki ability earlier, a possible augment for this ability can be that instead of turning the damaged area invisible, the ability simply gives a higher chance for the attack to not damage loki. or the augment can be that instead of giving a chance for attacks to pass through loki, whenever loki is hit at all his entire body turns completely invisible for a period of time.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Jakomaru

[(PSN)OriginalEquinox]

1 hour ago, Jakomaru said:

the solution? simply revamp the way that pve and pvp are separated. start fresh and give each warframe a completely different set of abilities for pvp

Won't happen anytime soon I'm afraid, pretty sure DE said it themselves that they aren't interested in working on conclave anymore so asking them to completely redesign Warframes and weapons for a mode very few might use is a bad idea.

I've said it be and I'll say it again, DE went the wrong way in 'balancing' conclave and you noticed it yourself, low levels with MK1 Bratons are much more deadlier than a high level with PvE experience because those weapons weren't altered as much as the more popular ones. To fix this DE needs to let us use our PvE mods but with fixed stats, basically anyone who uses serration or vitality will get a fixed amount of damage or health regardless of it's level, that way a high level with a maxed mod won't have a advantage over a newbie with a rank 0 one

Edited November 25, 2018 by (PS4)Equinox21697

[Metathorn]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Equinox21697 said:

To fix this DE needs to let us use our PvE mods but with fixed stats

I'll one-up you on that and suggest that DE let us use PvE mods on weapons without restrictions. Additionally, a boost to Conclave mobility and a quicker respawn speed would help remove some of the disconnect from PvE to PvP.

When every weapon has an equal chance to kill quickly, matches would be more balanced. Of course, that'd put low MR players at a disadvantage in regular matches. A solution to that would be to MR-lock non-beginner matches to a higher MR.

[Stormdragon]

5 hours ago, Jakomaru said:

the solution? simply revamp the way that pve and pvp are separated. start fresh and give each warframe a completely different set of abilities for pvp. pvp should have its own set of weapons as well. the abilities of warframes and the stats of weapons were designed to kill npcs, not warframes.

Warframe abilities have already been reworked to fit a pvp environment while making sense for their theme, you can take abilities like terrify (halves enemy damage output temporarily), desecrate (allows you to see desecrated enemies through walls for 6 seconds), shadows of the dead (bypasses respawn timer), banshee's silence (dispels powers and prevents enemies from casting abilities while in its range) or even some passives like oberon's (impair immunity) amongst others for example of this.

Reworking frames to the point of having a brand new set of powers takes too much resources and creates a greater sense of disconnect in gameplay.

5 hours ago, Jakomaru said:

loki's decoy ability and invisibility ability are just not good in pvp. a new ability can be sort of a combination of both of these.

I beg to differ, decoy works like a turret that loks exactly like you, lasts 6 seconds in which it will continuously shoot whatever is your primary weapon at 50% damage and no respect for magazine restriction and can also get a 50% taken damage link with the augment. Too good for an easily spammable power.

5 hours ago, Jakomaru said:

as for weapons, like i said before pvp will need a completely new set of weapons dedicated for pvp alone. the current weapons were not designed for use against tenno and therefore the weapon stats and capabilities of the weapon are often extremely unbalanced and impractical. accuracy for these new pvp weapons should be generally higher than pve weapons to allow for combat between fully functioning warframes.

Weapons have already been rebalanced for pvp, you can see in the conclave arsenal how everything has smaller mags, less damage with the same fire rate and accuracy to make them feel similar to their pve counterparts despite the removal of stuff like status and critical chance to remove the randomness these added to the table.

5 hours ago, Jakomaru said:

the only non hitscan weapons should be weapons with functions similar to the talons weapon.

And remove bows, throwing knives, lanka, drakgoon, supras, deras, etc. Despite the fact that these can be as viable as hitscan stuff, or even better depending on the user's skill to line up with enemy trajectory and/or judge distance and speed to properly lead their shots? I see no reason for such change tbh.

5 hours ago, Jakomaru said:

as for mods, there should definitely be a new set of augmentation mods for each warframe to account for the new set of abilities

It would be nice to have more ability augments, but for the current abilities since only a few frames have access to them.

5 hours ago, Jakomaru said:

his entire body turns completely invisible for a period of time

Complete invisibility is unfair since it removes almost entirely the possibility of counterplay for the enemy, reason why these keep an outline and a blurry effect making the enemy really hard to see, and it's fine.

[L45T51GH]

Add Dargyn and K-drive run in conclave could be good idea.

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by L45T51GH

[Aramil999]

Loki's Decoy is strongest 25 energy ability. 

All warframes abilities work 100% different in Conclave soooooo what you suggest was already done.

How do you balance PvE mods for PvP? Inaros with 300 HP or with 7000 HP vs Ignis Wraith dealing 10 000 slash procs per second?

Adding fixed ammont of damge for each mod will make mastery rank 3 unable to fight mastery rank 12 players SO YOU WANT TO SPLIT this 40 players that play Conclave every week into even smaller groups.... bad idea that would make Cocnalve very dead.