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Marakai

As a new player I am little tired of "dumb" gameplay mechanics like Saryn - press 4 to kill map...

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I know vets who play level 200+ enemies may see her different  but as a fairy new player I am really tired of just baby sitting next to Saryns who just press 2 keys and I just see Affinity numbers pop out around map. 99% of Saryns just stand in middle of map and spam one-two abillity. I know they are other AOE nukers- but many of them start to scale bad at around 80+ lvl with their nukes from what I have seen, but Saryn damage is toxic and corrosive so she scales probably best with content making even fun missions/events with high level enemies trivial and boring. Many times me and other 3 players on Onslaught or Survival/Defense just stand and hope we can kill something or use our "non-AOE-map nuke-press-one-button" abilities before Saryn kills whole map using so much skill as pressing 2 buttons.

I know Saryn is not alone, Equinox can do something simillar, Octavia can afk, Ember was a problem with it but I heard she was nerfed long time ago.

Anyway I don't understand why DE design those frames with such brainless gameplay. It's not only not fun to play with such frames as other less-AOE frames (or non-meta frames general), it makes mission trivial, boring and not challanging. Not to mention it's a very selfish design since it does nothing for team apart from taking away fun.

Veterans might don't care, I understand- different perspective. But from new player point of few (+ my friends who also started WG with me) it's just not fun to play with.

This is just my opinion as new player.

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4 minutes ago, Marakai said:

Veterans might don't care, I understand- different perspective. But from new player point of few (+ my friends who also started WG with me) it's just not fun to play with.

This has nothing to do with being a Veteran or a new player.
This has to do with simply understanding basic stuff. You are joining public matches, you are joining random groups.
It's just obvious that you will get paired with someone playing a nuke. It's just about chances...

If you don't like that playstyle, just make your own custom groups without nukes. It's that easy.
And then try to effectively do missions against level 100+ enemies.
Sure, weapons can kill these enemies aswell. But missions take way more time this way. And stuff like Survival becomes unplayable, because your kill-speed just drops at one point or another.
If this is fun for you, power to you. As I said, play solo or with a custom group.

You don't like the nuke-playstyle. Nukes may don't like your "boring" playstyle. Accept the fact that everyone has their own way of playing. Don't try to force your way on to others.

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If you dislike how others play the game, you can form a squad with specific players or play alone. Saryn and Equinox are not the problem, you just dislike efficient players being matched with you as they will rush the mission whether it is Capture, Exterminate, Defense, etc. You simply can't impose your way of playing on other people.

This is an endless loop of discussion as there are two sides that are not in the wrong, and Digital Extremes cannot do much to combat this. We have seen changes to Mag, Saryn, Ash, Ember, Mesa, Excalibur, Frost, Limbo, and more. Nothing will stop an efficient player from speed-running, nuking, or other gameplay styles that quickly finish missions.

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1 minute ago, Voltage said:

If you dislike how others play the game, you can form a squad with specific players or play alone. Saryn and Equinox are not the problem, you just dislike efficient players being matched with you as they will rush the mission whether it is Capture, Exterminate, Defense, etc.

It isn't efficiency,it is overpoweredness. NO frame should be able to wipe an entire map.

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Just now, DSkycroft said:

It isn't efficiency,it is overpoweredness. NO frame should be able to wipe an entire map.

Warframe in nature is a hack and slash looting 3rd person shooter. There is no scenario where you can maintain the atmosphere of this game and limit everything within ~30 meters of the player. Taking on hoards of enemies in large areas is one of the major selling points of the gameplay.

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When presented with the lack of ability to keep up, you reveal yourself as the kind of player you are, saryn cannot kill nullifiers or arbitration shield drones, some enemies are harder to kill, boxes exist, you can heal, you can buff, you can collect loot, you can find caches, stars and ayatan statues.

If you can't do 1 thing, then pick 1 of the other 20 to do, if you feel hopeless and your intention is to afk, then neither you nor your account will last long.

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1 minute ago, Voltage said:

Warframe in nature is a hack and slash looting 3rd person shooter. There is no scenario where you can maintain the atmosphere of this game and limit everything within ~30 meters of the player. Taking on hoards of enemies in large areas is one of the major selling points of the gameplay.

I'm just saying that her range is a bit much compared to almost all other AOE frames.

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3 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

Oh God.. this should be merged with the fed up thread.. ^^

I'd prefer vanished away so more important issues are visible.

Though to be fair, MR0 - 9 getting matched with 20s i can see to be a problem. But that's matchmaking related.

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Using the phrase "veterans don't care" is an ignorant one (no offense) Veterans know the progression of frames over time including nerfs and buffs and the reason you won't hear much complaining about it is because we know at one point, she was far worse. This applies to most frames and weapons. Some players just want to feel powerful or show off for newbies. Somejust want to be more efficient and clear the mission as fast as possible. Some frames have NO buisness in lower level missions tho.

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vor 1 Minute schrieb DSkycroft:

I'm just saying that her range is a bit much compared to almost all other AOE frames.

Hey, this is the fault of overextended, and slapping 4 range mods on her..

her normal range is fine.. change my mind >_>

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vor 1 Minute schrieb IceColdHawk:

I'd prefer vanished away so more important issues are visible.

Though to be fair, MR0 - 9 getting matched with 20s i can see to be a problem. But that's matchmaking related.

Which could need a "buff", ha! Other games are able to do that, WF just needs to learn. ūüėõ

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4 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Warframe in nature is a hack and slash looting 3rd person shooter. There is no scenario where you can maintain the atmosphere of this game and limit everything within ~30 meters of the player. Taking on hoards of enemies in large areas is one of the major selling points of the gameplay.

With all due respect I disagree- even in games like Diablo or POE you need to at least press same button a lot of times and maintain a lot of other stuff- like aggro, self heal etc. In Dynasty warrios, vermintide, even ME3 multiplayer- you don't just press one button standing still and delete whole map.

Pressing one button once or two buttons once is hardly "hack n slash". It's "stand and splash" maybe.

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3 minutes ago, DSkycroft said:

I'm just saying that her range is a bit much compared to almost all other AOE frames.

Changing the range of Saryn will not stop the scenario you dislike. Players who enjoy this playstyle will use other items. The pace of a player is unique per player. Finding players with your expectations/standards results in a more enjoyable experience. The issue here is matchmaking, not specific builds. The effectiveness of nuking is not the Warframe, but the player and their mindset. If an efficient player wants to nuke a map, they will accomplish that goal. If they could not, they would not be playing.

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Yeah, they severely overshot the mark rebalancing Saryn. Allowing her spores to propagate themselves when they are an enemy that dies under the effects of her 4 while allowing them to ignore LOS to propagate, as well as allowing her 4 to ignore LOS is all very much excessive.

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This kind of thing will always be an issue in Warframe. Something will be powerful to the point it hurts the experience of others. There will be those who want it changed so they can participate,and those who want it to stay the same so they can continue to easy-mode every mission. DE will cater to one side,and the other will continue to be bitter about it.

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Dont be sad man this is normal, some peoples dont know nothing about team play or cooperation, they care only about themselves and their score to be best and hurry hurry finish missions with zero respect to new players or peoples who need some resources or wish to play as team  best thing you can do is  play solo or with your friends who knows something about team play .) Jerry 

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4 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Changing the range of Saryn will not stop the scenario you dislike. Players who enjoy this playstyle will use other items. The pace of a player is unique per player. Finding players with your expectations/standards results in a more enjoyable experience. The issue here is matchmaking, not specific builds. The effectiveness of nuking is not the Warframe, but the player and their mindset. If an efficient player wants to nuke a map, they will accomplish that goal. If they could not, they would not be playing.

In my opinion it's not a matter of playstyle but a balance- if one frame can trivialize whole map with one button while other frames have to run around, jump, shoot, slide, use their "non-map-AOE" abilities, actually managing their abilities durations, dodging enemies, avoiding huge group of enemies, synergizing their abilities for some combos, setting up etc- while frame like Saryns tand in middle and "1....4....... 1........4 ...... 1.......4".

It's not playstyle- it's balance issue, when one frames makes other framers not do anything cause it can just delete maps like with snap of fingers. Warframe is (at least in core conception) a game when you have to use your full arsenal- movement, primary, secondary, elements, abilities, team-work.

If one frame all have to do is sit and press 1 and 4 button - it's a serious balance issue for me.
 

Again - my opinion. You are free to disagree of course.

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vor 23 Minuten schrieb Marakai:

[...]

if u let such things limit creativity too much then u will surely run into issues with new, creative abilities sooner than expected. sure, u can force synergy kits on every frame but that quickly turns into tediousness. miasma is already weak on its own and vs low level enemies every frame is unfair. but whats also unfair is taking that low level as a basis for balancing since u can breeze through that content anyway. im ot talking about anything below lv 150, but there is also the issue of general difficulty anyway. if the star chart and other missions which are supposed to be "endgame" outside of endless, long runs were more difficult then the 1 button issue would be less present.

how many threads are there about saryn now ? ppl complain she can wipe lv 20s with 1 button...yea, she can like others, equinox as u mentioned, volt too for example, nova also trivialises them and frost can also do his share. rhinos 4 also leaves enemies pretty much as good as dead or kills them straight up at these lvls. at some point thats just how it goes. u progress, ur tools become more powerful, so do ur builds. that doesnt mean a frame or design is bad, literally. if u really want to have all abilities which do much on their own get removed then u should really rethink how much that would limit ability design. there are so many abilities which have a huge impact on their own and if they all were to get redesigned and receive a forced synergy that would be a huge step back. good kits dont have tedious synergies which could be called dependany more so than synergy but interaction which improves an ability and motivates to use them in conjunction. miasma already deals no real damage without spores so its not literally 1 button and if u make such combinations too weak then who plays that ?! there are enough alternatives...even now. also, as already stated in many of the numerous recent saryn threads: saryn is a pure dmg dealer. she has no mentionable cc and no real tankyness. her molt forces aggro so it can buy time but its not real tankyness, even with the augment.

on another note: u really want to tell people how to play ? if it bothers u that much, there is the option to solo or only play with friends. in an online game with matchmaking like this u cant choose who ur automatically matched with and as i said at some point lower content wont be anything remotely close to a challenge and as mentioned balancing around early game is the worst choice any developer can make because endgame will suffer from it a lot and usually endgame is where ppl spent the most time at. anything below is basically just the path towards endgame although this would be the moment where one could again mention the issue of endgame content in warframe but thats an old topic.

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5 minutes ago, Marakai said:

With all due respect I disagree- even in games like Diablo or POE you need to at least press same button a lot of times and maintain a lot of other stuff- like aggro, self heal etc. In Dynasty warrios, vermintide, even ME3 multiplayer- you don't just press one button standing still and delete whole map.

Pressing one button once or two buttons once is hardly "hack n slash". It's "stand and splash" maybe.

You need to learn how saryn works/actually play her  before  making  ignorant  non-arguments.  She doesn't just  press 1 button or 2.  You have to maintain her spores once you place them by using your 3 and 4. You also have to balance your dmg. kill to fast you lose your  spores,  kill  to slow  and  you get overrun.

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1 minute ago, Xydeth said:

[...]

Maybe, just maybe- if there are so many threads about Saryn - did you think for once that there is maybe an issue?

How many threads you see about Excalibur being OP, Rihno, Banshee, Harrow, Ash, Volt, Frost etc.

So if so many people see an issue- then maybe there is one. It's worth to think about it.

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Lul at lvl 500 saryn stops being a nuke and becomes an armor stripper and debuffer for condition overload for zenistars.

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Just now, Betsill said:

You need to learn how saryn works/actually play her  before  making  ignorant  non-arguments.  She doesn't just  press 1 button or 2.  You have to maintain her spores once you place them by using your 3 and 4. You also have to balance your dmg. kill to fast you lose your  spores,  kill  to slow  and  you get overrun.

Ow, I am sorry, you have to stand still and press 3 buttons. My bad.

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