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Half of Tombfinger's damage is locked into its AoE


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searching tombfinger topics didn't show this posted anywhere else, so here are my findings using a tombfinger/slapneedle/haymaker bodyshots vs generic crewman shields

C7zg4.png

its pax seeker also seems to do less damage than i'd expect, but i'll need to do more testing on that to see if my expected damage is actually accurate first

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5 minutes ago, Asphyxiants said:

Imagine going into this much depth rather than just playing and enjoying the game.

 

Some people enjoy minmaxing? That can be fun too. 

Not like there are any hard rules on how to play, and i assume those similar to OP would appreciate things like this.

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9 minutes ago, sleepychewbacca said:

Some people enjoy minmaxing? That can be fun too. 

for me it's even more basic than minmaxing lol. some people just like doing science in the game they play. i feel like a biologist who was just told they didn't enjoy life lol

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Is there a reason why you've got the AoE being entirely Radiation?  I'm just curious if there may be a more complex split of damage that would give the same expected results but with less than half the damage being the AoE.

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42 minutes ago, Katinka said:

Is there a reason why you've got the AoE being entirely Radiation?  I'm just curious if there may be a more complex split of damage that would give the same expected results but with less than half the damage being the AoE.

i'm glad you brought that up. i do have a couple reasons, but it is still very much an unproven assumption. if we reversed the numbers such that it was pure physical damage on the AoE and pure radiation on hit, it would be closer to 33% than 50%. my reasons are first, that i have only seen the AoE inflict radiation, and i have only seen the direct hit inflict puncture, and second, that AoE effects traditionally inflict physical damage types on hit and elemental damage types on AoE (e.g. ogris, penta, tonkor). a more rigorous method of testing the damage types by testing against different health types with different damage modifiers would probably be able to give a more definitive answer.

edit:

Spoiler

C7AP6.pngC7BrU.png

i really should've done this to begin with, but i really wanted to look into pax seeker calculations lol.

 

Edited by continue
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I was surprised by how small this weapon's AoE is. Very disappointing IMO.

1 hour ago, Asphyxiants said:

Imagine going into this much depth rather than just playing and enjoying the game.

Though the data table might've been a bit much, I'd say being attentive while playing is a good thing - a sign of intelligence. And, perhaps a sign of too much free time. 😄

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13 hours ago, continue said:

li really should've done this to begin with, but i really wanted to look into pax seeker calculations lol.

Please share 🙂 I dropped the ball after the changes (also before it was doing so much damage that wasn’t even worth investigating)

i will try a bit today with a max ranked one for more consistent results. It’s still pretty good for sure

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Heeyyy, I'm gonna slightly pull off the main part of this topic to ask about the Armor/Health thing, how do you figure out how much armor is applying to each element, as well how much the armor matters vs. Health for damage calcs?

 

Otherwise I thank you for mathing this out, though I'm really sad the main target isn't 'assumed' to be taking the 'explosion', that really gimps the listed damage and explains why I was feeling, SLIGHTLY, dissapointed with the results compared to Rattle/Moon.

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vor 16 Stunden schrieb Asphyxiants:

Imagine going into this much depth rather than just playing and enjoying the game.

 

People enjoy doing THIS. If you like fishing and saving animals good for you but some people want to be the most efficient mass murderers.

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8 hours ago, Zsword said:

Heeyyy, I'm gonna slightly pull off the main part of this topic to ask about the Armor/Health thing, how do you figure out how much armor is applying to each element, as well how much the armor matters vs. Health for damage calcs?

i referenced the wiki for the modifiers' values. the way armor modifiers work is, if for example you have an element with +75% effectiveness vs an armor type, you do 75% more damage AND that armor is calculated as if it were reduced by 75% for that element. then you multiply the weapon's damage numbers in the arsenal by the armor damage modifier, armor damage reduction, and health damage modifier to get the predicted actual damage that it will do to a target

 

9 hours ago, JohnKable said:

Please share 🙂 I dropped the ball after the changes (also before it was doing so much damage that wasn’t even worth investigating)

i will try a bit today with a max ranked one for more consistent results. It’s still pretty good for sure

i haven't found a really obvious pattern or straightforward calculation yet :/ probably just going to build and gild more kitguns and make a trendline to see if it reveals anything. might make a google spreadsheet too

Edited by continue
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I feel like this isn't even being excessively details-oriented, this is noticing "oh hey this stat card is INCREDIBLY misleading about damage again, maybe people should know this".

I'm kind of reminded of how the displayed damage on that disc-launcher prism is actually the damage of the impact+explosion, except it won't explode until the sixth target or something.

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On 2018-11-25 at 1:20 PM, Asphyxiants said:

Imagine going into this much depth rather than just playing and enjoying the game.

 

If people didn't analyze this stuff we would never know it was broken or not.

Obviously DE didn't analyze it enough. 

Gun is OK. But for the time gated grind required to get one, it should be better.

I appreciate stuff like this because I made one and if it sucks (it does) I'm not gonna waste time and resources on formas etc. I'll wait for a tweak or scrap it.

Anyone that's built one of these and gilded and upgraded it knows something ain't right. Something that requires more time and grinding should be better than anything from the market. Otherwise what's the point of the grind?

 

Edited by IIDMOII
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On 2018-11-25 at 2:20 PM, Asphyxiants said:

Imagine going into this much depth rather than just playing and enjoying the game.

 

You will find that people conduct investigations in this game for the sole benefit of finding out little pockets of information that could help all the more. It may not be of any use to you, but there is a large amount of players in the community that enjoy knowing the numbers.

Edited by (XB1)OTF SERENiTY
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On 2018-11-25 at 12:20 PM, Asphyxiants said:

Imagine going into this much depth rather than just playing and enjoying the game.

 

Without the guides of the lotus, warframe wiki, the riven calculators, warframe builders, etc, etc, nobody would ever know how status works, ips, damage reduction, etc because we all know the game itself doesn't tell you anything.  So be thankful for these people who have done the research to make our lives easier.

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