Jump to content

Riven and Kuva rework proposition


Xardis
 Share

Recommended Posts

First of all I will try to show how rivens right now work. After that I will show you the system that Ive come up with that would add to the current system and wouldnt change the rivens that we already have.

Rivens right now can hold from 2 to 4 different stats - ++, +++, ++- and +++-. On top of that each stat has its variation from a certain preset value, checking many ++ rivens on Arca Scisco I came to conclusion that its un to +/- 10% of a middle value - that checkes out with the stats listed on semlar.com. I expected that this variation would be corelated so if one stat had a higher roll, the other would get lower but thats not true, those arent dependant on each other.

Now I will introduce a kind of stat to simplify things, power, its basicly middle value any stat can have on ++ riven with disposition of 1. Thats 1 power. Now, looking at stats on semlar.com I looked into what how that changes depending on how much stat types are in a mod. If riven is +++ each stat has the power of 0,75. If its ++- its 1,25 for positive values and -0,5 for negative. For +++- its 0,94 for each positive and -0,75 for negative. Sum of power in each configuration is 2 for ++, 2,25 for +++, 2 for ++- and 2,07 for +++-.

Now that we have this taken care of, lets move to my changes - I would like to get rid of the variation in stats. "Why?" you would ask - coz it takes loads of data, each riven has to have its rank, stat type, each stat value, rolls and MR requirement. I would assume stat variation plays a big part of it. Because DE doesnt have infinite server capacity we have 90 riven hardcap. I dont know how much my other changes would add or remove data from each riven so just to be safe, remove variation completly.

Onto 1st major change, you can now lock stat type so it doesnt change between rolls. It costs 10k kuva for locking 1st stat, 15k for locking 2nd and 20k to lock 3rd. Edditionaly, each roll with a locked stat costs 500 kuva more per each locked stat. Note that locking the stat also locks if it positive or negative.

Another change, for a cost of 2xroll cost you can add or remove stat slot of your choosing, note that is considered as roll, if you try to add a stat slot and you dont like it, you can keep the previous roll. You can add up to 2 stat slot - max 4 and min 2 as it is now. This kind of rolling would give you number of stats you would desire, not random like you could get without it. Another change would be that for 7k kuva you can reverse the stat from negative to positive or from positive to negative. This also expands stat configurations - currently we have ++, +++, ++- and +++-. I would want to add 5 more - +-, +--, ++++, ++-- and +---. I would also like to standardise the sum of stat power on each riven, for 2 slot riven (++ or +-) it would be 2, for 3 slot (+++, ++- or +--) it would be 2,1 and for 4 slot (++++, +++-, ++-- or +---) it would be 2,2. Keep in mind that rolling would mean you could get any configuration from 9 that I listed.

Onto how stat power would fall individualy, this time with this nice table, it would be harder to do with text alone:

Ive also noticed that stat values are always around the value that a normal mod for the weapon would be (in terms of stats on ++ riven). So here are current values on ++ riven for rifles, shotguns and pistols, contrasted with my perposed standardised stats and those compared to stats the normal mod has. P before the stat is for Primed variant. Im not touching melee for the same reason DE didnt want to change dispositions in U24 - Im waiting for melee 3.0.

Spoiler

Rifle

Shotgun

Pistol

 

I would also like to shift disposition range from 0,5-1,5 to 0,75-2,0. So 6 dispositions, 0,75, 1, 1,25, 1,5, 1,75 and 2. On the disposition thing, it shouldnt be based entirely on popularity of the weapon. Some sub par builds are depedant on a specific riven, nerfing it coz its a tad bit more popular kills the build. DE should have one or more people looking on those popularity stats closer to see where its used, in what combination, or even talk to the people using it. Weapons popularity isnt equal to its power in game, if 2 people enjoy Braton and get a good riven for it to make it viable for higher level content, it will boost its popularity, and nerf the rivens - the exact opposite effect of what rivens were supposed to do - boost less popular weapons so people would use them.

For weapons that have less than 5% status or crit chance and have at least disposition of 1,5 - they can roll +15% base chance for that at rank 8. That stat would be affected by disposition with +10% base if it was of power 1 (stat on a ++ riven with dispo of 1).

Thats that for riven side of things - I wanted to keep them random with giving players some kind of control over the RNG, control with just brute force of grind. You could still get a god roll normally, its just that it should also be possible to get it with mostly grind. It would certainly be more fair. About kuva values, I would be fine if the ones I gave were greater up to 10 times. That still would mean progression.

Now to kuva farming side - survival is kinda in a good place - it needs only a little tweek, instead of x kuva for each finished collector, make it x*2^(m/60) where m is number of minutes into survival. That means at 60th minute you would get double kuva.

Kuva siphons and floods - make those a full on invasion/temporary ocupation of the node by Kuva Fortress forces. Not 1 but 3 siphons, each one needs 2 clouds to be captured in order to be destroyed, each awards 200 kuva when destroyed. Each siphon can cap up to 3 clouds, if the 4th is captured, it disappears. When a siphon is destroyed, it also drops 50 kuva per captured cloud, on top of that, for each cloud captured, the next one moves 33% faster. Kuva flood works the same, only 80-100 lvl enemies and 2x multiplier on kuva reward. On top of that, in kuva flood missions, there are medalion like items scattered across the map, up to 4. Those are crystalised kuva shards. They can come in 3 sizes, Each one can be traded in to Teshin in order to get 50, 100 or 200 kuva.

Kuva Fortress missions have up to 3 kuva shards spawn on the map (excluding defence). Also, cashes in exterminate have a chance to drop 200 kuva, so does each objective in mobile defence and spy. Each wave in defence adds 12% chance that a kuva cargo pod will go come throught the map. If it spawn chances go back to 0. Its basicly a kuva siphon model moving from one map end to another in about 40s. During that time 8 kuva guardians spawn to "protect it". When all are killed, the pod stops moving, if its not hacked within 15s 4 kuva guardians will spawn in the nearest regular spawn location and will go to the pod, if within 4m, the pod will resume its movement. If the pod is hacked, it awards 300 kuva.

One last thing. A good raid would be a kuva fortress heist. Just reuse some law or retribution mechanics, add some new arcanes and a huge kuva reward for clearing it.

Edited by Xardis
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Locking stats would ultimately result in the oversaturation of the same names containing Visi/ata, Sati/can, Hexa/dex, Acri/tis, Crita/cron with various negatives depending on the weapon. The randomness of the system is what makes it both interesting and volatile. 

Scaling Kuva in Survival would be awesome, but given that DE didn't take that feedback when they created their dev workshop post, I doubt that we will ever see scaling rewards.

Asking for any sort of "Raid" is a long shot in the dark. Again, would be awesome, but probably won't happen.

The only thing I would like the change about the Riven system is allowing you to improve the grades on your rolls. Other than that, I like the system the way it is. It grows on you after some time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Locking stats would ultimately result in the oversaturation of the same names containing Visi/ata, Sati/can, Hexa/dex, Acri/tis, Crita/cron with various negatives depending on the weapon. The randomness of the system is what makes it both interesting and volatile. 

The only thing I would like the change about the Riven system is allowing you to improve the grades on your rolls. Other than that, I like the system the way it is. It grows on you after some time.

Sorry, but it doesnt. Its dependant on pure RNG, its not intresting to roll the same riven for 100 rolls and get nothing usefull, its simply unrewarding. Even with a mountain of kuva you still can get nothing usefull while some other person just unvails a god riven. I dont want to take that away from him, I just want to tip the scales in my favor if I have that mountain.

27 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Scaling Kuva in Survival would be awesome, but given that DE didn't take that feedback when they created their dev workshop post, I doubt that we will ever see scaling rewards.

Asking for any sort of "Raid" is a long shot in the dark. Again, would be awesome, but probably won't happen.

Yeach, it probably wont happen, same for my entire concept. But without pushback nothing will happen, it took a yeach for DE to implement model change switch for tennogen skins.

I also forgot to add something in the main post, for weapons that have less than 5% status or crit chance and have at least disposition of 1,5 - they can roll +15% base chance for that at rank 8.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Locking stats would ultimately result in the oversaturation of the same names containing Visi/ata, Sati/can, Hexa/dex, Acri/tis, Crita/cron with various negatives depending on the weapon. The randomness of the system is what makes it both interesting and volatile. 

Scaling Kuva in Survival would be awesome, but given that DE didn't take that feedback when they created their dev workshop post, I doubt that we will ever see scaling rewards.

Asking for any sort of "Raid" is a long shot in the dark. Again, would be awesome, but probably won't happen.

The only thing I would like the change about the Riven system is allowing you to improve the grades on your rolls. Other than that, I like the system the way it is. It grows on you after some time.

Hmhm that would be broken. What I suggest is to only change the amount of kuva you get from survival. There should be an increment for every 5 minutes survived, that way staying linger rewards more kuva and it scales nicely for both novice and veteran players.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, SaiTatter said:

There should be an increment for every 5 minutes survived

DE hasn't just remained silent on this. They have stated that this won't happen.

6 hours ago, Xardis said:

Onto 1st major change, you can now lock stat type so it doesnt change between rolls. It costs 10k kuva for locking 1st stat, 15k for locking 2nd and 20k to lock 3rd. Edditionaly, each roll with a locked stat costs 500 kuva more per each locked stat. Note that locking the stat also locks if it positive or negative.

Locking stats is not compatible with the system as it is or as you propose. The only thing preventing a heavy nerf to them is the time and energy, on the whole, needed to get the stats you want.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Locking stats is not compatible with the system as it is or as you propose. The only thing preventing a heavy nerf to them is the time and energy, on the whole, needed to get the stats you want.

Than I want even more increesed costs in kuva - like 3 times the values I perposed. Again, the system is the most unrewarding in warframe, the only reason its used coz it produces power. Its basicly a lootbox now, a multistaged lootbox. I dont want to take away the time investment, I want it to be meaningful. Right now I have a riven with 114 rolls that so far only had 1 stat per roll max that was useful. Its not investing my time, its wasting it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't touch rivens as I enjoy the RNG they have. Maybe if anything I'd make sure each stat has equal chances of being rolled (cause right now it definitely doesn't feel that way).

What I'd change is KUVA resource farming. Let the rewards scale the longer you play in kuva. That simple. Even 5% resource increase per kuva harvester would be a huge improvement.

I'd also change max kuva on reroll from 3500 to 2000. that is still 10 kuva harvesters, which is about 11-12 minutes of kuva survival. Pretty reasonable than the 27 minutes per reroll bullcrap we have right now.

Edited by deothor
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...