A new meta is brewing??

[TheWhitterMatter]

First of all, this post is simply making comparisons from the game in its out of closed beta (if you can call it that) up to its current state.

I started playing this game shortly after it officially came out in December 2013. Back then, things were relatively simple. You finish the tutorial where you escape your grineer attackers and you are brought to the old navigation system, with a few options on the top that relate to you and a few on the side that relate to the community. The Lotus, who back then just seemed like a normal mission giver and shot caller, gave out the rest of the tutorial and a mission to kill Vor. With the objective in mind I continued with the game, eager to delve into this new experience. I learned things quickly and within the first week I made it to a self made objective, the old Uranus where I could get Ash. I started out as Loki so getting there pretty much solo was pretty difficult, but I did it.  

Nothing is simple anymore. The new tutorial is better at explaining things to new players, but when they are out of that, there is so much to do and understand. We still have to kill Vor, but its not like he's the villain of the earth. New players need to find a way to get to him on mercury. So while they are learning this massive structure within the current game, they are also trying to navigate to mercury through two planets. While there are issues with the new player experience I'm not going to go into it; there are plenty of people who have. 

Back then the game only had about 14 materials you needed and every year since, they've added at least one new resource to obtain. It started out with Oxium then two more were added then 3-4 and now ever since PoE its been like 15 new materials to obtain with several separate methods of obtaining them. PoE and Fortuna are like entirely different games that come with there own things to gather. I currently work full time, and I don't have time to do everything I want to do in one day. I actually am starting to feel exhausted and it feels more like a chore. While Fortuna's grinding engagement feels much better than PoE, I feel that in combination with everything to do in there AND in other parts of warframe, there is possibly too much for most players.

So a new meta will form in the future, if we keep getting major updates like this. Players will focus into one or two things and get really good at those things, then sell what they have for plat or trade that with other people. No one will have time to do everything so they will focus into a category. No one wants to grind new content and keep managing old content at the same time, but we've been managing with it for the last 3 years. I think people are already adopting this, and a few of my friends are talking about this. There is just too much to do, and for new players there is an explosive amount for them the moment they get out of that tutorial. 

Its good to keep players invested in the game, but it gets to the point where there is too much and it has to slow down. Yeah, I like simple things sometimes, there doesn't have to be a big super massive open world to keep me interested in the game. There are some basic things we still need (look at my previous posts) and I doubt we will ever get them at this rate. There is a new meta brewing and I don't think it will be good.

And why has Fortuna failed on the aspect of player retention? I think its because DE showed too much of there hand after they showed it off. They showed it off on so many streams but mostly the same things, k-drive and a lot of poo sniffing with some fighting in the mix. When I see the content I usually don't care to play it as much. Most games where I watch the content before I play it I never actually finish.

Anyway these are my thoughts, take them as you like. A response is always appreciated.

Edited November 26, 2018 by TheWhitterMatter
wasn't finished

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

The new meta is Arca plasmor.

honestly might as well not try if you’ve got a squad mate using one. Can barely get a kill in edge wise.

[TheWhitterMatter]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

The new meta is Arca plasmor.

honestly might as well not try if you’ve got a squad mate using one. Can barely get a kill in edge wise.

The Arca Plasmor has been in the meta since it came out. DE just nerfed it.

[(PSN)OriginalEquinox]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

The new meta is Arca plasmor.

honestly might as well not try if you’ve got a squad mate using one. Can barely get a kill in edge wise.

My favourite weapon, now I never touch it because that visual update ruined it, unfortunately there are still people running around with bright energy colours on it

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Just now, TheWhitterMatter said:

The Arca Plasmor has been in the meta since it came out. DE just nerfed it.

Well it needs another one. Maybe an even slower fire rate or smaller projectile.

[XenMaster]

If someone bring arca plasmor in survival mission, obviously the other 3 leave him behind LOL

[AG-w]

I agree that we have s--t loads of mat needs to collect
but we don't really need to rush everything, it's not like DE will rush to release content

I mostly only finish a part of it then just called it a day, or just get the thing I want then stop

[(PSN)Herrwann69]

Il y a 8 heures, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 a dit :

The new meta is Arca plasmor.

honestly might as well not try if you’ve got a squad mate using one. Can barely get a kill in edge wise.

Umbra/Rhino using Arca Plasmor is the best youtubemetanoob detector. 

[Viges]

People thinking that ANY (yes arca, staticor, ignis whatever) ranged weapon is "meta" are so funny, trying to act like they know what they are talking about

10 hours ago, TheWhitterMatter said:

And why has Fortuna failed on the aspect of player retention?

Because the bounties are total crap, that's why. "Babysitters play free". Defend this, defend that, capture... FFS I could not imagine they'd make bounties even worse than in plains. But they did. The map is beautiful, but f this bs.

[Sloan441]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Herrwann69 said:

Umbra/Rhino using Arca Plasmor is the best youtubemetanoob detector. 

The more things change, the more they remain the same. 

Although, the U-Ecals I see generally are still spamming exalted blade action, but I don't care enough to look too closely. 

What I have noticed is an increasing trend to using AoE weapons. We've warned about this sort of thing, but DE seems to be intent on going down a similar path to PSO. The problem here is the overwhelming prevalence of overpowered AoE weapons. It's rare I see a squad without at least one Ignis or Arca Plasmor. It's getting out of hand and the there needs to be some downside to using weapons capable of AoE as effectively on single targets as it is on groups. It's a trend that needs nipped in the bud. 

As for bounties...eh, I don't like them particularly. I'll do them because it's fundamental faction work at present. What that's done, however, I'm permanently done with them. Frankly, I'm not a huge fan of the open world areas. They're pretty and there's certainly an exploration vibe early on, but they pale swiftly and I'm back in the part of the game I really like: shooting things in what passes for their face in corridors. 

[IceColdHawk]

12 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

The new meta is Arca plasmor.

 

12 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Well it needs another one. Maybe an even slower fire rate or smaller projectile.

Good meme.

[OldWhateley]

Wait, you are saying there's too much to do? Yeah, for new players, but what about veterans/high MR or whatever you want to call them?

For me it's the opposite. I don't have anything to do in this game. Already did everything in Fortuna.

[TheWhitterMatter]

1 hour ago, Viges said:

Because the bounties are total crap, that's why. "Babysitters play free". Defend this, defend that, capture... FFS I could not imagine they'd make bounties even worse than in plains. But they did. The map is beautiful, but f this bs.

This I can agree on. The objectives on fortuna are both different and the same as the ones on PoE. Lots of random defending, and killing, and looking for cashes/npcs. Also in that in the highest version you literally do every single mission type available. It got boring in the first 3-4 that I did and then I jsut stopped and went fishing and mining. The missions could actually be hella cool and fun. I think fortuna actually is better about the missions than on PoE, because you can bring a more diverse group of warframes that include mag and frost. However there is no reason for a mission when were we do a defense or survival mission inside one of the big bases, and NOT just the one close to the Fortuna entrance. Every mission is close to the front of Fortuna. I feel like when its missions we never get to see any of the other cool areas.

Edited November 26, 2018 by TheWhitterMatter

[KIREEK]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Herrwann69 said:

Umbra/Rhino using Arca Plasmor is the best youtubemetanoob detector. 

Carefull there, i sometimes do pick rhino with arca plasmor since as stated the weapon is great versus clustered groups and individuals (to some extent) and that doesn't mean i'm a noob, so it being a detector means it's a bad detector, actual results ingame (what the player is doing) is WAY better than just looking at gear

[Leyers_of_facade]

13 hours ago, TheWhitterMatter said:

And why has Fortuna failed on the aspect of player retention? I think its because DE showed too much of there hand after they showed it off. They showed it off on so many streams but mostly the same things, k-drive and a lot of poo sniffing with some fighting in the mix. When I see the content I usually don't care to play it as much. Most games where I watch the content before I play it I never actually finish.

A bit too tired currently to put up a full reply to your post, so I will respond to this part only.
I don't think Fortuna failed in player retention, rather it is just released in a rather uncomfortable time (mid november) and therefore have a smaller player return rate than you would have expected. Also there is a lack of anything "necessary" or extremely "endgame", there is no boss to fight (eg. eidolons for poe), strong end-game weapon (eg plague kripath during operation plague star for poe)

November is a busy time for a lot of people, students have their finals coming up, many jobs are a lot busier near the year end too (accounting for example would be one). The lack of anything important to grind means there is probably a lot of people who probably tried out fortuna a bit, and decide that they will do the grinding they need when they are more free (christmas maybe? its around the corner anyway)

[BeeWhyOhBee]

fortuna is good. Very good, actually.

it used to be 'challengingly (that's not a word) good', until the nerfs EVEN BEFORE EVERYTHING GOT RELEASED came in. now its just a place for standing. for me its still fun though, same way as PoE got released back then, i farmed it a ton of times until i got everything i wanted -- should be the same premise here

hey at least we got new targets to get in that place, i want all the kitguns, new kitgun arcanes and what the future updates could offer. And i think they would have some sort of a 'ghouls/plague star' type of content in there, so that's something. i think those spider bots will be like eidolons, not that its a bad thing. As i said on some comment earlier, you should've realized by now that there is no endgame in Warframe. as i've read in one comment somewhere in the forums -- fun is subjective. Im having fun with Fortuna, so there you go.

[Dabnician]

15 hours ago, TheWhitterMatter said:

I started playing this game shortly after it officially came out in December 2013. Back then, things were relatively simple. You finish the tutorial where you escape your grineer attackers and you are brought to the old navigation system, with a few options on the top that relate to you and a few on the side that relate to the community. The Lotus, who back then just seemed like a normal mission giver and shot caller, gave out the rest of the tutorial and a mission to kill Vor. With the objective in mind I continued with the game, eager to delve into this new experience. I learned things quickly and within the first week I made it to a self made objective, the old Uranus where I could get Ash. I started out as Loki so getting there pretty much solo was pretty difficult, but I did it.  

Nothing is simple anymore.

wtf are you talking about, I want X, X drops from Y, i go play Y until i get X, its actually pretty simple.

That is literally war frame since the day i purchased my founders pack back in 2012. There might be some dialogue im going to forget or some full motion video i wont really remember.

its literally "play Y until X drops, risen, repeat"

 

1 hour ago, BeeWhyOhBee said:

you should've realized by now that there is no endgame in Warframe.

No yall just dont realize that you literally started the end game when you created your character. There is no "get to level 80 AND THEN the game starts" stuff, no you are already at the end game, you do exactly what you did at MR 0 as you will at MR 25 and one day MR 50. You do the same events that MR 0's do the same as MR 25's. You are literally playing the end game so stop trying to burn up all the content.

Its like if you all booted up BlackOps4 and went "i need to complete the campaign before playing multiplayer, thats when endgame starts".... there are literally people i know that have never seen the single play campaign of several CoD/Battlefield games.

[Neightrix]

Everything seems to fall by the wayside in favor of enhancing the farm. It makes sense given adding more loot has a higher chance of continuing their livelihood as a company in the immediate future. A lot of players expect loot to be the entire reason for playing (right or wrong or whatever). Which is a shame because DE is willing to take risks such as with archwing, Lunaro, raids, and other game ventures for the sake of enjoyment - and the more recent quests have been great. Sadly these things often get shelved for multiple years or removed.

I personally think burn out on a game is a healthy thing, and I find the time gates on large updates like Fortuna off-putting. I think in the very long term this may hurt DE, and if players aren't having fun they may feel their time is being exploited with time syncs (I had a several friends quit from this). Having said that, I don't envy the struggle of decision-making for a whole company where innovation comes from passion and talent, and I'm hopeful the upcoming Fortuna content brings something new to enjoy.

[(PSN)Herrwann69]

Il y a 11 heures, KIREEK a dit :

Carefull there, i sometimes do pick rhino with arca plasmor since as stated the weapon is great versus clustered groups and individuals (to some extent) and that doesn't mean i'm a noob, so it being a detector means it's a bad detector, actual results ingame (what the player is doing) is WAY better than just looking at gear

The detector is a very good one. Don't be ashamed to use noobish gears time to time, even me sometime I feel like I want to cheese things up and want to be semiafk while my weapon kill everything without aiming or my overpowered frame is taking damage without consequences with very good results in-game.

[Buttaface]

15 hours ago, (PS4)Herrwann69 said:

Umbra/Rhino using Arca Plasmor is the best youtubemetanoob detector. 

Mesa, Equinox, Volt, Banshee and Saryn would like a word with the "youtubemetanoob" judges. They feel left out by the above, and unlike the Arca Plasmor, don't even have to aim, just mash buttons to be "WF gud."

[TheWhitterMatter]

5 hours ago, Neightrix said:

Everything seems to fall by the wayside in favor of enhancing the farm. It makes sense given adding more loot has a higher chance of continuing their livelihood as a company in the immediate future. A lot of players expect loot to be the entire reason for playing (right or wrong or whatever). Which is a shame because DE is willing to take risks such as with archwing, Lunaro, raids, and other game ventures for the sake of enjoyment - and the more recent quests have been great. Sadly these things often get shelved for multiple years or removed.

I can't agree more. There are so many things that could be updated and changed, but they are always left out. Lunaro could be a game changing feature, but instead DE have left it out, along with PvP. Thats another thing I have so many people who would play this game if PvP was actually a thing. IT USED to be a thing, and now there is conclave 2.0 (which sucks) and lunaro.

PoE could receive a massive update. Improve the environment. Make all the big caves accessible all the time. Make it more lived in, like, put in more enemies and larger buildings. PoE is a place people will be forced to return to for years to come so why not make it more interesting?

[Wolfchild07]

18 hours ago, Sloan441 said:

The more things change, the more they remain the same. 

Although, the U-Ecals I see generally are still spamming exalted blade action, but I don't care enough to look too closely. 

What I have noticed is an increasing trend to using AoE weapons. We've warned about this sort of thing, but DE seems to be intent on going down a similar path to PSO. The problem here is the overwhelming prevalence of overpowered AoE weapons. It's rare I see a squad without at least one Ignis or Arca Plasmor. It's getting out of hand and the there needs to be some downside to using weapons capable of AoE as effectively on single targets as it is on groups. It's a trend that needs nipped in the bud. 

As for bounties...eh, I don't like them particularly. I'll do them because it's fundamental faction work at present. What that's done, however, I'm permanently done with them. Frankly, I'm not a huge fan of the open world areas. They're pretty and there's certainly an exploration vibe early on, but they pale swiftly and I'm back in the part of the game I really like: shooting things in what passes for their face in corridors. 

Also, on the other end we have rifles and pistols destroying dropships. Are they made of alfoil? You should need a rocket launcher, ogris for example, and even then they shouldn't just explode. They should come crashing to the ground.

[deothor]

17 hours ago, BeeWhyOhBee said:

fortuna is good. Very good, actually.

Player retention says it was good for first 2 weeks. Or rather veterans that didn't have anything to do, once done with Fortuna left the game "untill next big thing relases".

Fortna is pretty meh. Map is nice (although the whiteness gets tiresome for the eyes after a while), but bounty missions are pain to do. 

What's more finding teammates that actually want to do bounties above T3 is well... Pretty impossible. I had tried to find anyone to run last bounty in Fortuna. hadn't found a living soul playing it.

 

---

Overall open worlds with the to-do content DE provides are bad idea. Especially when they gate every-damn-thing behind the boring pointless grind.

[PookieNumnums]

Ive been saying this since before plains release. There is too much to do or focus on within the games different areas. 

It is going to give players burn out and discourrage long term play because no goal is reasonably achievable when you have 20 other things you need to do. 

The star chart is mostly obsolete, and players who have to finish it have a hard time finding players to grind it out with. Doing it alone is unfun for many. 

 But here we are trying to balance bonds kitguns and solaris standing with zaws amps and ostron standing while we farm arcanes and quill rep while we try to conserve and fish two different planets while we are trying to max out syndicates and clear the star chart so we can progress through the quests before we craft our next prime item after farming ducats... before we grind kuva ro reroll our many rivens. 

A lot of content is good, but content that takes away from other content is not so good. 

And we havent even seen railjack or kingpin systems. Or focus rework rework. Or melee 3.o. . Or sentient arm cannons. Or tau.  Or the return of a trial like thing. Or alliance content. Or clan emblem glyphs. 

[TheWhitterMatter]

1 hour ago, PookieNumnums said:

Ive been saying this since before plains release. There is too much to do or focus on within the games different areas. 

It is going to give players burn out and discourrage long term play because no goal is reasonably achievable when you have 20 other things you need to do. 

The star chart is mostly obsolete, and players who have to finish it have a hard time finding players to grind it out with. Doing it alone is unfun for many. 

 But here we are trying to balance bonds kitguns and solaris standing with zaws amps and ostron standing while we farm arcanes and quill rep while we try to conserve and fish two different planets while we are trying to max out syndicates and clear the star chart so we can progress through the quests before we craft our next prime item after farming ducats... before we grind kuva ro reroll our many rivens. 

A lot of content is good, but content that takes away from other content is not so good. 

And we havent even seen railjack or kingpin systems. Or focus rework rework. Or melee 3.o. . Or sentient arm cannons. Or tau.  Or the return of a trial like thing. Or alliance content. Or clan emblem glyphs. 

Personally, when there is so much to do in a game, whether I have played it for years or only just picking it up, I often get overwhelmed and it takes a lot from me mentally to actually get through it. The old void farming system was really nice and mostly simple. I felt good about just playing it by myself and earning things. The new system still just feels aweful to me. I often can never get what I want. In total my friends and I spent about 70 relics (mostly me because I was the one looking for it, just to get the part I want. I actually ran out of the relics and my friends gladly helped me out. In the old system, I could usually spend about 20 keys at the most and get what I want. It is actually painful and un-fun for me to use the current system.

But you are right in what you said. A lot of the current content is a bit exhausting and it burns people out. While I want railjack and the kingpin stuff and what-not, I also just want them to stop putting out new content, and spend a year polishing what's already in the game. We need the melee 3.0, return of raids would be fun, a #*!%ing fix for enemy scaling, so MAYBE we can get some real endgame and I don't have to hear noobs complain about how enemies are so easy to kill and boring on the first 5-7 planet/moons (yes I hear about if often). I lobe the new enemy types on Fortuna, but where are they in the rest of the game, huh?