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Conclave rework idea.


Szubrawski
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Not many players used to play Conclave, not because they are dedicated to PVE but the Conclave system is poorly designed. I'm wondering, why you (DE) spent so much resources on PoE copy. instead of spending less than 1/10 of effort to redesign almost ready and very unique feature as Conclave - which is almost dead and unplayable.

Some of the main Conclave problems:

  1. the need of balance WF skills or weapons, present and future
  2. too dynamic gameplay which is not as enjoyable as in PVE mode
  3. resource waste on mods that cant be used in normal mode
  4. rewards are mostly restricted only to Conclave mode

Solution:

  • restrict Conclave only to Operator - this will lower the dynamic of gameplay and finally will add a greater purpose for Operator usage in game
  • rebalance few skills of the focus schools, to suit PVP - still less work than rebalancing WF and weapons, present and future
  • add K-Drive to Lunaro for Operators as it require more dynamic gameplay
  • the rewards should be more encouraging to play Conclave as the current are pointless

Of course it will require to do some further balance as lowering energy cap for Operators to avoid void dash spam, or disabling void mode for Conclave. Just few, less detailed ideas to consider, to make the game better. The Conclave is an unique feature and currently only way of some competitive PvP game, so please don't turn it off, just fix it.

Yes we can, vote for Brakk Bump, make Conclave great again! 😋

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1 hour ago, NNKanell said:

pve players are not interested in pvp.
pvp players are not interested in pve.

if you want conclave to grow, this kind of isolationist mindset shouldn't exist. PvE players in any game are well capable of enjoying PvP as well. Take Destiny for example.

The issue is that Warframe was designed with only PvE in mind, meaning that if you want meaningful and balanced PvP then you would have to change many things and make it quite different from the PvE experience.

Warframe was rigged to have a bad PvP from the start but hey it doesn't stop a small number of players enjoying it. I enjoy it quite alot, even ranked to Typhoon in two weeks.

The next step is to add more changes and create an influx of new Conclave players.

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DE just need to fix the "cheese" so new players don't get stomped on by weapons they don't have and can't get unless they invest HOURS into PvE.

If you have HOURS in PvE it gives you a competitive advantage which is why there are no new players in PvP. 

Competitive players find the grind of PvE tedious as I do. I would suggest something like a conclave mastery rank to unlock weapons and warframe to use for only conclave so you don't have to grind PvE to get it. 

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5 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

There actually are quite a few people who do. Completely changing the entire mode to use Operators instead of Warframes is not a solution to anything.

No doubt about that, but that change nothing as only FEW people plays it as the gameplay itself is just bad for the most of the players. If the PVP gameplay with WF is not enjoyable enough, then what the solution could be? Its not a matter of rewards and I think that Operator approach, with focus schools could be far more interesting and challenging than current way of Conclave.

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9 hours ago, Szubrawski said:

No doubt about that, but that change nothing as only FEW people plays it as the gameplay itself is just bad for the most of the players. If the PVP gameplay with WF is not enjoyable enough, then what the solution could be? Its not a matter of rewards and I think that Operator approach, with focus schools could be far more interesting and challenging than current way of Conclave.

With the Operator approach you would drop from a few players to no players in less than 2 months. 

Operator PvP would just get thr Lunaro treatment, where it was all the rage for about a month and then all the PvE players went back to PvE to grind the new shiny and it got abandoned.

Edited by Tachmag
Typo
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So you want Conclave to be locked off from all players until War Within, have a incredible grind wall to be on even footing (maxed Zenurik with lightning dash spam and all waybounds vs a new player with nothing), and be in a mode most players dislike since people don't want to be forced into operator only gameplay.

While this seems like a fantastic rework to kill Conclave, I fail to see how it preserves any of the unique or interesting aspects of Conclave.

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You expect that a green player will have equal chances on any level including skill? Even now Conclave require to grind, so what you talking about? That is one of minor problem of Conclave, that completely green players are going to check Conclave and they get totally wrecked by experienced players, guess what - they never come back. So yes the Conclave locked until War Within is a good idea as the player will get more experience and the focus schools is just the matter of details and how it will be implemented.

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1 minute ago, Szubrawski said:

You expect that a green player will have equal chances on any level including skill? Even now Conclave require to grind, so what you talking about? That is one of minor problem of Conclave, that completely green players are going to check Conclave and they get totally wrecked by experienced players, guess what - they never come back. So yes the Conclave locked until War Within is a good idea as the player will get more experience and the focus schools is just the matter of details and how it will be implemented.

or, you know, maybe consider some other ideas that satisfy both conditions:

1. Available to all

2. Fair to all

Which points to....

GRINEER vs CORPUS pvp!!!

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New idea for Concluseless.

Keep all the frames with all the mods we want on them same goes for the weapons and make it 1 big ass map with 50 other frames and we turn this sh*t into 1 epic freakin battle royale like never seen bef4.

THOSE KIDS FROM FORTNIGHT WILL LEARN WHAT GODLIKE MEANS.
 

No really just let every1 1shot each other.... who cares that's fun and games are ment to have fun..... 

WHO IS WITH ME HOP ON THE HYPE TRAIN WARFRAME BATTLE ROYALE MODE WHOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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9 hours ago, Szubrawski said:

You expect that a green player will have equal chances on any level including skill? Even now Conclave require to grind, so what you talking about? That is one of minor problem of Conclave, that completely green players are going to check Conclave and they get totally wrecked by experienced players, guess what - they never come back. So yes the Conclave locked until War Within is a good idea as the player will get more experience and the focus schools is just the matter of details and how it will be implemented. 

You expect that a green player will have equal chances on any level including skill? Even now QUAKE/UT require to grind, so what you talking about? That is one of minor problem of QUAKE/UT, that completely green players are going to check QUAKE/UT and they get totally wrecked by experienced players, guess what - they never come back. So yes the QUAKE/UT locked until Top 500 Overwatch is a good idea as the player will get more experience and the focus schools is just the matter of details and how it will be implemented. 

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I love how 5% of playerbase called "PvE only Warframe" answer to such posts and try to destroy this 1% of playerbase called "PvP funs", I talk to you mr @MystMan. There is a lot of players that want to play both PvE and PvP look at Dark Souls, WoW, Destiny.

Idea with operators is not all that bad but a lot of people want to play PvP with Warframes, however most new players are way to weak in terms of skill and they get destroyed by powerful weapon/warframe combo or normal weapon used by real veteran. Skill gap is way too big to be overcome and we simply need bigger player pool in Conclave so matches can be balanced (similar skill level of all players in match) but that would need nice rework addition of quest or new stalker mode with some new lore (Steve confirmed ot kinda) so lets hope for the best.

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13 hours ago, NNKanell said:

You expect that a green player will have equal chances on any level including skill? Even now QUAKE/UT require to grind, so what you talking about? That is one of minor problem of QUAKE/UT, that completely green players are going to check QUAKE/UT and they get totally wrecked by experienced players, guess what - they never come back. So yes the QUAKE/UT locked until Top 500 Overwatch is a good idea as the player will get more experience and the focus schools is just the matter of details and how it will be implemented. 

You have no idea what you talking about. Anyway I was playing Quake 3 over 10 years, and the dynamic of the game and the skill level was much higher than WF. What is more important that Quake had a good gameplay and guess what, there was no rewards to make the people play it. The current Conclave gameplay, just suck hard and this is the point of this topick.

Edited by Szubrawski
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7 hours ago, Szubrawski said:

You have no idea what you talking about. Anyway I was playing Quake 3 over 10 years, and the dynamic of the game and the skill level was much higher than WF. What is more important that Quake had a good gameplay and guess what, there was no rewards to make the people play it. The current Conclave gameplay, just suck hard and this is the point of this topick. 

I meant that in this phrase it is possible to write other games and the meaning is not lost.
At the time of the release of quake 3, it had no competition as it is now.(1999)
 

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On 2018-11-27 at 1:21 PM, Szubrawski said:
  • restrict Conclave only to Operator - this will lower the dynamic of gameplay and finally will add a greater purpose for Operator usage in game

Other parts of your post was fine in my perspective, it's just the above line that I take issue with.

While I wouldn't mind an "operator only" game mode, like a game mode specifically tailored around operator movement and abilities, I think it's a bad idea to keep Warframes, the name of the game removed for the sake of PvP. Sure, you more than free to believe that some Warframes may need some balancing because they're overpowered (and maybe you're right), but you can't realistically expect the main focus of the game to be absent when considering such an involved game mode.

Not to mention, you'll be keeping a certain percentage of the playerbase (who may have not finished The War Within quest) out of PvP completely, and why would anyone want that?

If you don't mind, I suggest you steer your topic to focus on a new operator-only pvp mode (which appears to be core of your idea). I mean, why not? if you can come up with pvp rules mechanics that make full use of the powers and limitations of operators, this might end up causing to people to look at Conclave again. Just don't remove Warframes entirely, there will always be players who will want that.

Edited by MandzPH
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1 hour ago, NNKanell said:

I meant that in this phrase it is possible to write other games and the meaning is not lost.
At the time of the release of quake 3, it had no competition as it is now.(1999)
 

It has no competition even now, the QL or QC are not popular these days because the era of TDM already ended and there is no public demand for such games as today, the battleroyale or BF like games, are most popular shooters.

29 minutes ago, MandzPH said:

Not to mention, you'll be keeping a certain percentage of the playerbase (who may have not finished The War Within quest) out of PvP completely, and why would anyone want that? 

Thank you for reply. As I mentioned above, one of the minor problem of Conclave, its not a Carebear mode as whole PvE, so new players are joining Conclave, they get wrecked, they never come back, they become prejudiced to it, no matter if they are using recruit conditioning or no. Yes, I think that such limit can be good as newcomers will get some fair basics before they join Conclave, so they will be not so easy pray as now they are. To be honest, I don't care if Conclave will be about Operators or WF, I just want to enjoy a good PvP mode. For me, the Operator approach seems to be easiest way for balance and gameplay improvement.

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Player vs Bot with preprogramed "player like" movements is tutorial mission (like mastery rank test) before you can join first match in Conclave.

Such tutorial may help, of course with Conclave loadout, not PvE one.

Adding: 

-starchart node vissible for everyone

-alarms in Conclave matches

-this tutorial

-fix missing weapons (primary and postol) from new players loadout

Nothing more for now, maybe Stalker Mode invasions and some lore quest.

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