Jump to content

I still miss sniper gas saryn


SilverTama
 Share

Recommended Posts

il y a 1 minute, Loza03 a dit :

At a stationary target.

I don't think current Saryn is some pinnacle of game design, but standing and aiming at a stationary target to win seems like an odd thing to miss.

What ? Enemies don't move alot but they aren't stationary.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

il y a 2 minutes, Loza03 a dit :

Sniper Gas Saryn was, to my knowledge, aiming at spores placed on your molt decoy. Also hence my comment about shooting 'one thing'.

Oh yeah, that way of playing Saryn was a shame.
But I think OP just refer to the toxin status spreading with spores, making high damage gaz status effective against enemies group, that turn any single target high damage/status weapon into an AoE weapon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, lukinu_u said:

Oh yeah, that way of playing Saryn was a shame.
But I think OP just refer to the toxin status spreading with spores, making high damage gaz status effective against enemies group, that turn any single target high damage/status weapon into an AoE weapon.

I suppose you're probably right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

At a stationary target.

I don't think current Saryn is some pinnacle of game design, but standing and aiming at a stationary target to win seems like an odd thing to miss.

When you aim at enemies, enemies may aiming at you. It take risks. Current saryn don't need to take risks but still can cause much damage. In addtion, only a apropriate weapon (riven as well)combined with her spore(skill 1) can can gas saryn casue decent damage which means it take players' time to think about what kind of combinations is most suitable for them. I think the mechanic of using skills with weapon in the meantime to cause damage is interesting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, SilverTama said:

When you aim at enemies, enemies may aiming at you. It take risks. Current saryn don't need to take risks but still can cause much damage. In addtion, only a apropriate weapon (riven as well)combined with her spore(skill 1) can can gas saryn casue decent damage which means it take players' time to think about what kind of combinations is most suitable for them. I think the mechanic of using skills with weapon in the meantime to cause damage is interesting.

I thought you were referring to 'Shoot molt simulator 2016' with your original post (since... there's exactly not much to go on)

I see where you're coming from here. I never engaged in this playstyle, but it does seem more interesting than Saryn's current design.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Sniper Gas Saryn was, to my knowledge, aiming at spores placed on your molt decoy. Also hence my comment about shooting 'one thing'.

Gas/Toxin is a give away sign its not being shot at Molt (at least if the player knows how Saryn actually worked just a little bit). You couldn't spread toxin from molt because that's not how the mechanic worked. To spread toxin meant that the affected target had to be suffering from a toxin proc with a spore still attached to them, then you pop the spore. You cant proc on your molt (or do damage at all for it to mean anything). Spore Molt was an 'okay' strat for low level mindless clears (not really anything special in terms of number of frames that mindlessly could do that) but for higher level stuff or content where then enemies are going to live through the first couple of spore bursts, Toxin burst Spore was monumentally better; so much so that theoretically it is higher damage potential in both time and highest limit than the current Spores that everyone complains about so much (there are a lot of caveats). Why was gas and snipers important? It is the highest possible single shot toxin proc that the game perceives as first procing the target then the gas explodes the spores nearly instantly after spreading the toxin in one step instead of two.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Gas/Toxin is a give away sign its not being shot at Molt (at least if the player knows how Saryn actually worked just a little bit). You couldn't spread toxin from molt because that's not how the mechanic worked. To spread toxin meant that the affected target had to be suffering from a toxin proc with a spore still attached to them, then you pop the spore. You cant proc on your molt (or do damage at all for it to mean anything). Spore Molt was an 'okay' strat for low level mindless clears (not really anything special in terms of number of frames that mindlessly could do that) but for higher level stuff or content where then enemies are going to live through the first couple of spore bursts, Toxin burst Spore was monumentally better; so much so that theoretically it is higher damage potential in both time and highest limit than the current Spores that everyone complains about so much (there are a lot of caveats). Why was gas and snipers important? It is the highest possible single shot toxin proc that the game perceives as first procing the target then the gas explodes the spores nearly instantly after spreading the toxin in one step instead of two.

Huh. Thanks for telling me this. I hated Saryn with a passion pre-rework so I never got to learn her mechanics. Sorry for inflicting my ignorance on the rest of you.:blush:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

I thought you were referring to 'Shoot molt simulator 2016' with your original post (since... there's exactly not much to go on)

I see where you're coming from here. I never engaged in this playstyle, but it does seem more interesting than Saryn's current design.

Thanks for understanding. I hope DE can let spores spread toxin status again and it will make saryn more interesting:facepalm:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Gas/Toxin is a give away sign its not being shot at Molt (at least if the player knows how Saryn actually worked just a little bit). You couldn't spread toxin from molt because that's not how the mechanic worked. To spread toxin meant that the affected target had to be suffering from a toxin proc with a spore still attached to them, then you pop the spore. You cant proc on your molt (or do damage at all for it to mean anything). Spore Molt was an 'okay' strat for low level mindless clears (not really anything special in terms of number of frames that mindlessly could do that) but for higher level stuff or content where then enemies are going to live through the first couple of spore bursts, Toxin burst Spore was monumentally better; so much so that theoretically it is higher damage potential in both time and highest limit than the current Spores that everyone complains about so much (there are a lot of caveats). Why was gas and snipers important? It is the highest possible single shot toxin proc that the game perceives as first procing the target then the gas explodes the spores nearly instantly after spreading the toxin in one step instead of two.

Thank you for explaining the mechanic detailed and correctly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Thaylien said:

I miss percentage-nuke Mag.

I miss Aimbot Mesa with Greedy Pull Mag.

I miss Radial Javelin being an actual damage cast.

I miss quite a lot of old, dated and broken mechanics.

Can't have them back, though. They're gone for good reason.

But compared to current saryn i can't find a good reason why DE delete the spores spread toxin status mechanic :sadcry:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, SilverTama said:

But compared to current saryn i can't find a good reason why DE delete the spores spread toxin status mechanic :sadcry:

Because there's no need to anymore?

Spores no longer have the mechanic of spreading minimum damage without a toxin proc, and spores themselves can spread multiple instances of damage that doesn't go away either, when the Toxin damage (even with Saryn's passive) never really lasted more than seconds. From the moment they're on there, Spores are dealing damage that only increases over time, and spreading them preserves that damage.

Plus now the Toxic Lash that you had previously applies as that to every weapon, and has been buffed to deal double with your melee instead. Meanwhile the Viral that cannot be stacked, only extended, has been moved to the ability you only have to cast once to put on everything in range. And to finalise the whole massive buff to her, Molt now actually is a decoy and does last long enough to be one, and even without the Augment it buffs Saryn by casting it, it's no longer a gimmick for spreading Spores.

Honestly, I've played Saryn for nearly as long as I've been playing the game, I've gone through all stages of her, testing and re-testing what was possible. Most of that was because of crappy arguments that sprung up about how her mechanics actually worked.

Because Spores are no longer reliant on an outside status effect in order to do damage, they are no longer a base debuff on a single target that needs to be refreshed and refreshed since it's only a few seconds of status, and when they do spread they are spreading the full accumulated damage every time (not 25% of the Toxin damage that caused the Toxin Proc, converted to Viral and added to the base 25 Viral from Spores which then means only half of the total damage transferred actually is calculated for the new Toxin Proc, so you're actually only getting 17.5% of the damage from your original being transferred).

I know that you miss the way that you could put Spores on something and smash it with high damage to put the Toxin on there and then pop spores again to deal high burst damage around...

You just don't need to anymore. The damage goes across regardless as long as you damage an enemy with Toxic Lash from any of your weapons.

You've lost one singular strong mechanic on a frame in order to make the entire frame so much stronger that she's unrecognisable from the original release.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

Because there's no need to anymore?

Spores no longer have the mechanic of spreading minimum damage without a toxin proc, and spores themselves can spread multiple instances of damage that doesn't go away either, when the Toxin damage (even with Saryn's passive) never really lasted more than seconds. From the moment they're on there, Spores are dealing damage that only increases over time, and spreading them preserves that damage.

Plus now the Toxic Lash that you had previously applies as that to every weapon, and has been buffed to deal double with your melee instead. Meanwhile the Viral that cannot be stacked, only extended, has been moved to the ability you only have to cast once to put on everything in range. And to finalise the whole massive buff to her, Molt now actually is a decoy and does last long enough to be one, and even without the Augment it buffs Saryn by casting it, it's no longer a gimmick for spreading Spores.

Honestly, I've played Saryn for nearly as long as I've been playing the game, I've gone through all stages of her, testing and re-testing what was possible. Most of that was because of crappy arguments that sprung up about how her mechanics actually worked.

Because Spores are no longer reliant on an outside status effect in order to do damage, they are no longer a base debuff on a single target that needs to be refreshed and refreshed since it's only a few seconds of status, and when they do spread they are spreading the full accumulated damage every time (not 25% of the Toxin damage that caused the Toxin Proc, converted to Viral and added to the base 25 Viral from Spores which then means only half of the total damage transferred actually is calculated for the new Toxin Proc, so you're actually only getting 17.5% of the damage from your original being transferred).

I know that you miss the way that you could put Spores on something and smash it with high damage to put the Toxin on there and then pop spores again to deal high burst damage around...

You just don't need to anymore. The damage goes across regardless as long as you damage an enemy with Toxic Lash from any of your weapons.

You've lost one singular strong mechanic on a frame in order to make the entire frame so much stronger that she's unrecognisable from the original release.

As you said that Toxic Lash got buffed and it seems connect skill with any weapon. But in fact, skill(spore) damage is not related to players' weapon though players press 1 to put spore on one enemy then trigger 3 and shoot or attack with their gun/melee which make spores all pop and once weapon damage higher. From my perspective, 1 then 3 then attck just make spores spread a little bit faster and damage on one enemy higher. If i want spores spread fast why i don't use a wide range weapon like ignis to pop the spores or high damage weapon to kill enemies? My point is, if spore can spread with toxin status again, players will spend more time on thinking what weapons(mods,rivens) can cooperate with spores to cause large damage instead of pressing 1 44444444 or 44444444 in no brains.... I still believe that if spores can spread carrying toxin status damage to enemies through triggered by gas status, it will make saryn more playable and interesting.:smile:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, SilverTama said:

My point is, if spore can spread with toxin status again, players will spend more time on thinking what weapons(mods,rivens) can cooperate with spores to cause large damage

The point of the change was that people weren't picking weapons to interact with the game. They were only using ones that reliably spread Spores like the Ignis, or ones that exploited the damage, like snipers.

The change was so that every weapon, every single one, spreads spores as well as each other. If you have Lash active, you spread Spores. No more need for snipers, you can top-damage in a mission with 1, 3, Shoot on an un-modded Mk-1 Lato.

And they spread their full damage every time too, not reliant on you getting a good hit with the weapon and specifically having Toxin on them first. They literally have stopped being a janky conditional-use-only damage function from an ability that is a Debuff and become a straight up Damage and Status ability, one that consistently deals high damage every single time to every single enemy in range for as long as you take the time to farm them.

Why are you even bringing her 4 into this at all? You don't need it. It's literally something you use if you want the enemies around you at half-health, but Spores ramps up to tens of thousand of damage per tick on everything it hits without it.

Anyone pressing 1, 4-4-4-4-4-4 brainlessly is doing it because they have no brains and no idea of how to actually play Saryn.

Rather than reaching for a mechanic that is objectively worse than the one we have now, why not educate the stupid ones on how Saryn is better when you don't spam?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

vor 21 Stunden schrieb Loza03:

Sniper Gas Saryn was, to my knowledge, aiming at spores placed on your molt decoy. Also hence my comment about shooting 'one thing'.

Nah that was another meta entirely. The lazy a** quantity over quality kind really since toxic didn't really work on molt. Shooting at it did nothing but literally popping them so you had unamplified spores.

Gas sniper saryn abused the toxic scaling of the spores what, even if only for a small percentage, spread the damage of a headshot amplified sniper over all enemies.. you had high level aoe off the bat with no wind up attached.

You sure had to shoot at enemies but it was pretty much a shortcut to what it is now, thus pretty much broken.

 

Edited by (PS4)CoolD2108
Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

The point of the change was that people weren't picking weapons to interact with the game. They were only using ones that reliably spread Spores like the Ignis, or ones that exploited the damage, like snipers.

The change was so that every weapon, every single one, spreads spores as well as each other. If you have Lash active, you spread Spores. No more need for snipers, you can top-damage in a mission with 1, 3, Shoot on an un-modded Mk-1 Lato.

And they spread their full damage every time too, not reliant on you getting a good hit with the weapon and specifically having Toxin on them first. They literally have stopped being a janky conditional-use-only damage function from an ability that is a Debuff and become a straight up Damage and Status ability, one that consistently deals high damage every single time to every single enemy in range for as long as you take the time to farm them.

Why are you even bringing her 4 into this at all? You don't need it. It's literally something you use if you want the enemies around you at half-health, but Spores ramps up to tens of thousand of damage per tick on everything it hits without it.

Anyone pressing 1, 4-4-4-4-4-4 brainlessly is doing it because they have no brains and no idea of how to actually play Saryn.

Rather than reaching for a mechanic that is objectively worse than the one we have now, why not educate the stupid ones on how Saryn is better when you don't spam?

Indeed, you may maintain a high spore damage in a mission by chance. But there are two points i want to emphasize: 1. It needs time and enemies to warm up damage 2. It needs enemies to maintain the damage. If no enemies are nearby, spore damage start up again which need time too. So you can hardly keep a large damage from current saryn's spores in every whole mission. And spore spread with toxin status which means you can cause large damage without thinking about time or amount of enemies because a certain percentage(depends on saryn's strength) toxin damage from weapon gas damage (gas status triggered) you put on one spored enemy will spread through spore to other enemies in few frames time. More gas damage your weapon causes, more toxin damage one spore spreads at one time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...