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WE WANT MORE RIVEN SLOTS


-GrT-BalexQQ
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Rivens take up a LOT more database space than normal mods so this is unlikely to happen as somebody has to pay the running costs for that database space forever so your one-off payment for unlocking the additional slots isn't going to cover that. Based on some guesswork and assuming all of the values for each riven were the smallest they could be in terms of space I did a calculation on how much database space rivens were taking up and my calculation came in at quite a few hundred gigabytes. My estimate was definitely way lower than reality so the storage space needed for rivens alone is massive.

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@-GrT-BalexQQ As a reminder, the reason why there's a limit on Riven mod slots in the first place is the fact that Rivens take up a lot of data, as they are procedurally generated.  Not only that, but they also store the data of past rerolls on them, whether you accepted the cycling or kept to the old stats.  If they were to add more Riven slots to the maximum limit, they'd need to upgrade their database, which not only takes time, but also has the chance to take the game down for a while as it is done.  So, while more slots would be nice, it ultimately would become very taxing very quickly, in terms of player files on the database.

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For a full game expirience 90 slots is not even close too enough.
Consider this.
300 Weapons,from this 300 u play 21x3 in the 21 mission types.
Each mission work better with a alpha type of weapon.Only for this u need 84 riven slots.
From all this weapon i say atl the half of them work with status & critical,thats mean atl other 42 riven slots.
Then u want to buy and sell some of them lets say 15-20 extra slots.......
So now tell me 90slots is enough ?
or i maybe i must buy before each mission the right mod and sell again after i finish ?
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7 hours ago, Dakari_Voident said:

@-GrT-BalexQQ As a reminder, the reason why there's a limit on Riven mod slots in the first place is the fact that Rivens take up a lot of data, as they are procedurally generated.  Not only that, but they also store the data of past rerolls on them, whether you accepted the cycling or kept to the old stats.  If they were to add more Riven slots to the maximum limit, they'd need to upgrade their database, which not only takes time, but also has the chance to take the game down for a while as it is done.  So, while more slots would be nice, it ultimately would become very taxing very quickly, in terms of player files on the database.

He dint ask for more rivens he ask for more riven slots

2 totally different things

More Rivens need bigger database i agree

More Slots could be in the need for bigger memory.....who i dont believe a company like this have a problem with that....

with your logic if i and 100more  buy all weapons all warframes all accesories all weapons we be able to brake the game database.....

 

Edited by CorneliusSigan
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I would love more slots as well. I have rivens for most of the weapons I use as well as different rivens for some of those for varied builds. Holding onto some because they are good and I'm gonna get or am putting forma on a weapon for them. As well as holding onto good rivens I don't use to give to the right person. 

It's a constant battle for space.

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8 hours ago, CorneliusSigan said:

He dint ask for more rivens he ask for more riven slots

2 totally different things

More Rivens need bigger database i agree

More Slots could be in the need for bigger memory.....who i dont believe a company like this have a problem with that....

with your logic if i and 100more  buy all weapons all warframes all accesories all weapons we be able to brake the game database.....

 

It isn't about breaking the database, it is about space. I suspect regular mods are hard-coded so the database only has to store a value to say you have the mod and what rank it is. Rivens have about 10 or so values because of the different stats, what values those stats have, whether it has been unveiled, previous rolls and so on so in terms of database space they are far more expensive than any other item in the game. DE has to pay the ongoing cost of that extra database space so they won't want it to get too high.

On top of that if DE gave us 15 more slots players would immediately ask for more so where does it stop?

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1 hour ago, Shalath said:

It isn't about breaking the database, it is about space. I suspect regular mods are hard-coded so the database only has to store a value to say you have the mod and what rank it is. Rivens have about 10 or so values because of the different stats, what values those stats have, whether it has been unveiled, previous rolls and so on so in terms of database space they are far more expensive than any other item in the game. DE has to pay the ongoing cost of that extra database space so they won't want it to get too high.

On top of that if DE gave us 15 more slots players would immediately ask for more so where does it stop?

Let's stop a moment and take a look at other games. For example Path of exile. Path of exile is a very deep action arpg that has a lot more "mod" stats and stat values than warframe does. 

https://poedb.tw/us/mod.php Here is a list of some of the mods.

They constantly add new ones and they spawn in many different items which means even more "server or database storage stress". In path of exile's case you can buy stash tabs that can store a maximum of 144 items with 1-6 different stats with a wide stat value range. Now how many stash tabs are you allowed to have in Path of exile? I believe the number was 52.627.

On the other hand, if warframe is really struggling with riven storage, then i suggest removing the decimal values on rivens {and maybe rounding them up} to conserve server space and letting us have more riven slots if that really is the issue. So for example all rivens that give 149,01 - 149,99 crit chance would give 150 crit chance instead. I believe that would free up a fair amount of space.

Edited by Thanzilla
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3 minutes ago, Thanzilla said:

Let's stop a moment and take a look at other games. For example Path of exile. Path of exile is a very deep action arpg that has a lot more "mod" stats and stat values than warframe does.

Let's stop for a moment and stop comparing Warframe to any other game.
No two games are coded the same way. Just because one game can handle such things with ease doesn't mean Warframe can do the exact same thing.

You don't go around and say that because a Tesla has specific function so does every car.
Different cars have different functions.

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10 hours ago, CorneliusSigan said:
For a full game expirience 90 slots is not even close too enough.
Consider this.
300 Weapons,from this 300 u play 21x3 in the 21 mission types.
Each mission work better with a alpha type of weapon.Only for this u need 84 riven slots.

This calcuation is horriby off. A weapon that performes well in an exterminate also performes well in a defense, survival or capture or...

The situation is more like this: There are 3 weapon slots. Total Riven capacity is caped at 90. 90 / 3 = 30. You can get 30 different combinations, fully euipped with a Riven without even 1 weapon appearing twice. Let's say you cycle your "go to" setting (not a specific one, like for spy missions) every day, you will play for one month with different weapons. Question: does this apply to you?

17 hours ago, -GrT-tsunagr said:

i totally agree that more slots will decrease the prices and will be easier for people to get rivens for weapons they like 

It will increase the prices as you can hoard more Rivens, thus there is less incentive to sell them.

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25 minutes ago, Thanzilla said:

Let's stop a moment and take a look at other games. For example Path of exile. Path of exile is a very deep action arpg that has a lot more "mod" stats and stat values than warframe does. 

https://poedb.tw/us/mod.php Here is a list of some of the mods.

They constantly add new ones and they spawn in many different items which means even more "server or database storage stress". In path of exile's case you can buy stash tabs that can store a maximum of 144 items with 1-6 different stats with a wide stat value range. Now how many stash tabs are you allowed to have in Path of exile? I believe the number was 52.627.

On the other hand, if warframe is really struggling with riven storage, then i suggest removing the decimal values on rivens {and maybe rounding them up} to conserve server space and letting us have more riven slots if that really is the issue. So for example all rivens that give 149,01 - 149,99 crit chance would give 150 crit chance instead. I believe that would free up a fair amount of space.

It isn't that DE is struggling for space, it is that they need to have a hard cap to prevent the database ballooning so much that it starts costing serious amounts of money to keep up with the size of the riven data. Without a cap DE will quickly get to the point where the riven data is bigger than all of the other game data put together. A good many players are hoarders that want everything and in terms of rivens would probably keep multiple copies of each.

As for removing decimals it would likely have no effect as a single-precision float value is 4 bytes and so is an integer (at least in MySQL). If values are small enough for a medium integer or even a small integer they could save some space but we don't know how the numbers are stored so we don't know if a medium/small would be enough. I doubt they would have opted for decimals if they could have saved space as that's just bad database design.

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...floats vs ints and data storage types

well why not just remove the numeric field alltogether?

 

suppose, no more value field, instead make a riven consist of just the 2-4 Stat Types, then instead of Storing strength values for them you calculate it on the fly based on Disposition

ie: all rivens become Quantized, instead of a Range of possible values, only 5 tiers

I'm sure we'll never miss it.

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I wanted riven mods rolled back and deleted and the persons responsible hazed for a year and a day. They are a lazy way to boost the effectiveness of weapons in the game I did give suggestions like buffing primes to be top shelf weapons dojo being a step bellow those has a sense of progression but those suggestions where ignored.

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15 hours ago, Herosupport said:

buffing primes to be top shelf weapons

 

15 hours ago, Herosupport said:

dojo being a step below* those

Going in that order, that makes weapons whose blueprints can be found in the market be MR fodder, which would make using prime weapons the best for anything in the game. I personally do not think that should be the case since it just means Prime weapons are the meta, leaving weapon variancy to be less... variant...

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Just my 2c worth...

3 riven slots cost 60 plat. 

90 riven slots cost 1800 plat. 

1800 plat costs around £50 uk

I could walk across the road to the convenience store and buy a memory card for my phone that would store the data for thousands of rivens for £20.

In my mind saying memory restrictions is the reason for the riven cap is not logical. I'm more prone to believe that the cap is there to promote the trade of rivens and by default the purchase of plat from the in game store. There is no cap on warframe or weapon slots or even normal mod storage only on rivens as there availability is throttled by how they are drip fed into the game by random sortie drops or alerts after dev streams. Then the unlocking challenge promotes the rapid sale of many of those the player can't crack. Then after unveiling a large percentage are for the heat sword or other worthless weapon and a very tiny percentage are god roll lankas blah blah i'm sure everyone reading this has a good idea of the RNG in cracking or rolling a good riven and the value of them in both plat and RL money. This all ends up as a lot of plat/money changing hands in the market. 

If your normally plat poor and fluke a riven worth 200p+ i expect a good asmount of that plat will go on WF and weapon slots taking it out of the hands of players and back in the devs pockets. 

The elephant in the room were sentinel rivens. Normally the 1st to be melted down for endo when slots were short they were removed from the drop table and now even trash sentinel rivens change hands for hundreds of plat. Everything i have seen happen with rivens seems to me to be motivated by promoting sales of plat. 

I realise this is a F2P game and it needs plat sales to carry on being a thing so im ok with how rivens are being handled. because really they aint needed, they are just something to collect and trade when you have every prime or to make up for a lack of skill if you have more money than sense. Having a 90 slot cap just means having to be a bit smart about what you keep and what goes in the trash pile. Also it stops people like me hording hundreds of rivens and driving up the prices even higher.

As much as i'd love to have 200 slots, it's a good thing for both me and the game i can't.

 

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im an active riven user that made the impossible to save some weapons from the status of mr fodder. they simply should remove rivens from the game and give decent stats to weapons, like daikyu, no 20% critical chance on daikyu is not good. no a status weapon with low fire rate and with forced impact procs is not a good status weapon. because not only ips weight 4 times more than elemental, they also made that every hit with daikyu gives a forced impact proc, while rerolling the riven i use for daikyu i got negative impact + slash so i thought "wow i have 100% status and high slash and no impact, i can apply deadly slash procs!" not really because when you get forced impact procs then one of the multishot arrows are going to deal 0 damage. that really sucks. then i rerolled again and again and i got - puncture + slash + cc + ammo max, it made the weapon deal much more consistent damage at high levels but the forced impact procs are still there like a bad stain that doesn't want to go away

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Up until this point Warframe never forced me to commit to anything. Unlike other games where you pick a class and stick to it, I can always switch to any other frame, any other weapon, any other focus school, etc. But now I hit the riven slots cap and I suddenly am forced to decide which weapons I want to have rivens for and which not. I need to understand all the weapons well to make an educated decision on this. I still don't. So I'll have to spend a lot of time googling to make sure I'm not dissolving/selling/transmuting the mod I'll later regret not having. All of this is super depressing for me.

The database limitation argument is laughable. I can believe that the initial design wasn't perfect, and work needs to be done to remedy that, and that's not the current priority at DE. But I can't accept that it can't be done. For example, Steam stores savegames in the cloud for hundreds of games for each user without complaints. Storing more rivens is nothing compared to that.

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4 hours ago, Andikki said:

But now I hit the riven slots cap and I suddenly am forced to decide which weapons I want to have rivens for and which not. I need to understand all the weapons well to make an educated decision on this. I still don't. So I'll have to spend a lot of time googling to make sure I'm not dissolving/selling/transmuting the mod I'll later regret not having. 

You're not forced to do anything. In fact, the only person or entity that's imposing "force" on you to do all this is yourself.

TBH, I don't entirely understand this obsession some of you have for Rivens. Then again, I'm not a gambler, I don't have an addictive personality, and I refused to drink the kool-aid that DE gave us after The War Within released. I was able to quickly identify the Riven system for what it was...a very clever means by which DE could avoid doing a serious balance pass on weapons and enemies while getting players to grind even more, spend plat even more, and jump through arbitrary hoops.

Sadly, it worked on most of you.

Me? Never used or equipped a single Riven. Ever. Almost all the Rivens I've wound up with have been sold....except one. That's there as a reminder...

Rivens are completely optional and their use is a matter of choice.  They are also slot machines and designed to make you grind until your eyes bleed and your fingers hurt.

By opting to chase after Rivens for whatever weapons you want them for, you're willingly volunteering to expend effort, resources, and time on them. And as easily as you got yourself into the Riven game...you can get yourself out of it by saying "I'm done", selling the things, and never looking back.

4 hours ago, Andikki said:

All of this is super depressing for me.

There are lots of important things to be super depressed about. Rivens are, and should not be, one of those things. They're just slot machine mods for weapons in a video game and nothing more.

Edited by MirageKnight
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ALL CAPS MAKES IT HAPPEN FASTER

 

No, it doesn't.

 

In all fairness, Scott stated that having one Riven per weapon "seems fair".

The thing is they are wary of how the database will handle the load.

So far it handled the upgrades from 30 to 60, 90 well. They haven't announced anything though, but it may come in 30-slot cap increments.

I for one am looking forward to this.

Edited by BrazilianJoe
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