WE WANT MORE RIVEN SLOTS

[(PSN)teacup775]

On 2018-11-27 at 8:47 AM, Shalath said:

Rivens take up a LOT more database space than normal mods so this is unlikely to happen as somebody has to pay the running costs for that database space forever so your one-off payment for unlocking the additional slots isn't going to cover that. Based on some guesswork and assuming all of the values for each riven were the smallest they could be in terms of space I did a calculation on how much database space rivens were taking up and my calculation came in at quite a few hundred gigabytes. My estimate was definitely way lower than reality so the storage space needed for rivens alone is massive.

Alot in a world where terabytes are nearly free. I don’t buy it especially when the can pack the details of every owned into a json string one row per player. 

[Shalath]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)teacup775 said:

Alot in a world where terabytes are nearly free. I don’t buy it especially when the can pack the details of every owned into a json string one row per player. 

Nearly free doesn't mean free. Somebody has to pay for the replacement disks and the electricity to keep those additional platters spinning. That's before you even get into the cost of backing that additional data up.

a JSON string is a temporary item that doesn't cost storage so you are comparing apples and oranges there.

[(PSN)teacup775]

43 minutes ago, Shalath said:

Nearly free doesn't mean free. Somebody has to pay for the replacement disks and the electricity to keep those additional platters spinning. That's before you even get into the cost of backing that additional data up.

a JSON string is a temporary item that doesn't cost storage so you are comparing apples and oranges there.

no. FB had a white paper years ago on that very mechanism they use in their own site.

1 json can be on the whole much more bulky and will, but the trade off is flexibility to unpack data into tables selectively.

2 nobody keeps their own data centers outside of a few companies.

AWS deals with all the upgrade maninence for pennies. Even small companies can scale crazy. Even Sony uses AWS.

Inactive players can simply be archived and restored should they show up. 

[Shalath]

Just now, (PS4)teacup775 said:

no. FB had a white paper years ago on that very mechanism they use in their own site.

1 json can be on the whole much more bulky and will, but the trade off is flexibility to unpack data into tables selectively.

2 nobody keeps their own data centers outside of a few companies.

AWS deals with all the upgrade maninence for pennies. Even small companies can scale crazy. Even Sony uses AWS.

Inactive players can simply be archived and restored should they show up. 

You do know that Facebook is not a game company right?

1 - JSON is not a relational database.

2 - People who want actual control keep their own data centres. For example if you use Azure and are happy your data is with their Irish data centre you can suddenly find your data is in Amsterdam without you knowing. Not everyone trusts "cloud companies" because they never have outages... until they do. They always have the best intent with your data... until they don't.

3. Sony is not a good example when it comes to data maintenance and protection.

4. Pretty sure DE could do this if they kept backups forever but proper backup media is expensive. Moving it to AWS doesn't give you free backup tapes and that is pretty much your only defence against ransomware and disk backups are not secure. We are overdue a story of what happens when ransomware gets into a big data centre where they laugh at traditional LTO backups.

[(PSN)teacup775]

31 minutes ago, Shalath said:

You do know that Facebook is not a game company right?

1 - JSON is not a relational database.

2 - People who want actual control keep their own data centres. For example if you use Azure and are happy your data is with their Irish data centre you can suddenly find your data is in Amsterdam without you knowing. Not everyone trusts "cloud companies" because they never have outages... until they do. They always have the best intent with your data... until they don't.

3. Sony is not a good example when it comes to data maintenance and protection.

4. Pretty sure DE could do this if they kept backups forever but proper backup media is expensive. Moving it to AWS doesn't give you free backup tapes and that is pretty much your only defence against ransomware and disk backups are not secure. We are overdue a story of what happens when ransomware gets into a big data centre where they laugh at traditional LTO backups.

1) i suggest you read the white paper as you are so out of school it’s painful. i worked for an archive company who maintains their own petabyte data center.

2-4

again so out of school it’s painful

Edited December 10, 2018 by (PS4)teacup775

[CorneliusSigan]

The main point about this post was about more riven slots

[most easy part on game,they must don't count the riven on weapon and finish]

So say your opinion and leave

if somebody say something who offended u take his ING and go pvp 😛

We all lift together

 

 

 

[Thrymm]

On 2018-11-28 at 3:55 AM, WhiteMarker said:

Let's stop for a moment and stop comparing Warframe to any other game.
No two games are coded the same way. Just because one game can handle such things with ease doesn't mean Warframe can do the exact same thing.

You don't go around and say that because a Tesla has specific function so does every car.
Different cars have different functions.

Let's stop and do exactly that, because it's relevant, and people do exactly that.

People DO compare the Tesla to other cars--heck, Tesla compares Tesla to other cars.  Most of their press releases are related to performance statistics that are benchmarks cars have used for decades--0-60, "fuel efficiency", crash test scores, etc.  Despite their newfangled drivetrains---and indeed, because of them--they go out of their way to directly compare to traditional automobiles.

Warframe appears to go out of its way to NOT compare Rivens to other procedurally generated content games.  That's because they are virtually identical in concept to Diablo or PoE loot, but are given the "extremely limited quanitity" treatment rather than the "here's hundreds of them per day" treatment that other games give.  They then proceed to somehow convince mooks that this is a database strain, and somehow these same mooks believe it to be the case despite clear examples of virtually identical loot items in multitudes of other games that don't strain it in the slightest---there's an entire game genre based on it because it's that easy to create and maintain.

The database excuse is flimsy at best.  If the one being used can't handle a handful of three or four stat items, it's done wrong and needs to be done right.  The code examples are out there that clearly display that doing it right makes database issues either irrelevant or non-existent.

 

But........I'd also tend to agree that we don't need them with the current limited quantity system.  No one can earnestly claim that they are using ninety seperate weapons on the regular.  Sure, a person can claim that they've set up and "finished" that many weapons to be available to them, and they might even be able to claim that they equip them all sometimes, but it's simply not realistic to use them all regularly enough to justify keeping the Rivens in stockpile.  There simply aren't ninety different scenarios in this game, and frankly there aren't really thirty different gearing scenarios in this game(Riven on primary, secondary, melee) that justify "powering up" to that level.

[Doomsknightmare]

Admit it salty kids, you dont want more Riven slots only because you cant even get yourself a few decent rivens ha ha jokes on you !

 As a rich fat @ss Tenno full of all kinds of Rivens I demand more Riven slots like the rest of us !

[CorneliusSigan]

Lets say u play since 2013 no no to far away 2016

say now that  u gonna play 3 years a game with always with the same weapons ......

or u want to say me that u gonna play example: Tiberon with riven then u get bored u sell the so perfect riven and u start to roll a other till u get your perfect riven again.....

not to mention the frames... i refuse to believe that u are gona use so many frames with the same weapons.

Better to ask this.How many primary/secondary/melee/sentinel weapons  come out since the update 21.6 ?[was the update from 60sl rivens to 90sl}

or even better to ask how many weapons lost the dispositions ? or nerfed or buffed ?

why i have to throw away my old rivens if i want to play with the new ones ?

if they want to chance the weapon stats ok free to go but dont mess with my gameplay 😄

for this reason i sit down i make my maths and i find out that they only way for us to get helped without to make it big deal to add more slots ,is to stop counting in riven slots the riven who is attached on weapon.With this way whe have automatic 210 riven slots 😄 90 rivens the 3 builds u can make on a weapon = 210.Simple fast easy

 

 

[Pixues]

On 2018-11-27 at 5:39 PM, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

Do you actively use all 90 rivens on your weapons?

No. No you do not.

I also don't actively use all weapons, but I buy slots for everyone one of em. I don't use every warframe actively, but i buy slots for every one of em. 

I don't have to explain or justify my use of rivens for wanting more slots. Not in any way. 

[ShortCat]

11 hours ago, Pixues said:

I don't have to explain or justify my use of rivens for wanting more slots. Not in any way. 

Indeed, you do not have to. However, you cannot compare gear and Rivens, because there is one big, BIG difference - market. Nobody wants or can buy your Lato, your Lato Riven on the other hand...
In this context, there are trader with 5-6 digits plat numbers. With unlimited storage they could just monopolize the entire trademarket and dictate the prices.

[Pixues]

7 hours ago, ShortCat said:

With unlimited storage they could just monopolize the entire trademarket and dictate the prices.

You can't monopolise rivens because the source is unlimited and the drop chances are equal for everyone. What the h*ll are you talking about. 

Do you seriously suggest someone could buy all the Tonkor rivens and the rest of us would *gasp* run out?

Also how do see this in action?

someguy going:

WTB Tonkor riven 100p. (wait 2 minutes)
WTB Tonkor riven 100p. (wait 2 minutes)
WTB Tonkor riven 100p. (wait 2 minutes)
WTB Tonkor riven 100p. (wait 2 minutes)

Not to even mention the act of trading the riven at a dojo. Not to even mention limited trades per day. 

And then planning to sell them for 500p each?

Oh no, all the Tonkor rivens would be gone in 2 days. This person could buy and sell them faster than 10 million other players have a chance of doing.

If you could monopolise anything in Warframe, it would be Primed chamber mods. And no one is running a monopoly on it. 
Or it would be those old Arcane helmets, yet no one is running a monopoly on it. 

Seriously think about what you said. 

You can't monopolise rivens or dictate its prices, ever.

You can't monopolise anything in Warframe. There is no-one, literally no-one delusional enough to think of starting a monopoly in warframe. 

Edited December 11, 2018 by Pixues

[MirageKnight]

7 hours ago, ShortCat said:

dictate the prices.

Don't they kinda do that anyway?

[ShortCat]

28 minutes ago, Pixues said:

You can't monopolise rivens or dictate its prices, ever.

Both statements are facually wrong.

1. Current prices on Rivens are insanely high, given that Rivens are dynamic mods and even after recent desposition adjustments remain as high as ever - which is just illogical. Somehow unrolled Rubico Riven is woth 800p, who set the price?
2. Monopole is not when you have all the goods, but when you dictate the price. For this, it is enough to hold a relevant part of top Rivens and set an arbitrary high price. You do not even have to sell them, just show them. A huge bubble, like most financial markets. Furthermore, serious Riven trading is not done in trade chat. 

15 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

Don't they kinda do that anyway?

Of course. But there is only so much you can manipulate with a limited stash. Right now only a small part of Rivens are insanly overpriced, drop the stash limit and a lot more will climb up.

EDIT: I am all in for unlimited Rivens, but not in the form those are right now.

Edited December 11, 2018 by ShortCat

[Pixues]

12 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

Both statements are facually wrong.

1. Current prices on Rivens are insanely high, given that Rivens are dynamic mods and even after recent desposition adjustments remain as high as ever - which is just illogical. Somehow unrolled Rubico Riven is woth 800p, who set the price?
2. Monopole is not when you have all the goods, but when you dictate the price. For this, it is enough to hold a relevant part of top Rivens and set an arbitrary high price. You do not even have to sell them, just show them. A huge bubble, like most financial markets. Furthermore, serious Riven trading is not done in trade chat. 

Of course. But there is only so much you can manipulate with a limited stash. Right now only a small part of Rivens are insanly overpriced, drop the stash limit and a lot more will climb up.

They are not dictated by anyone. Prices are high when demand is higher than supply. jeez. You can't sell a Tonkor riven for 5000p.

Rubico rivens are high in price because everybody wants them. Not because a group of people or an individual decided they will be high in price.

Just google 'supply and demand'. 

Edited December 11, 2018 by Pixues

[MirageKnight]

3 hours ago, Pixues said:

Rubico rivens are high in price because everybody wants them. Not because a group of people or an individual decided they will be high in price.

Right, but people can still choose the price they wish to sell an item for, no?

In a traditional economy, if there's low supply and high demand, a re-seller raises their prices to cover an increase in wholesale cost they paid to the manufacturer. In the case of a seller that manufactures goods for sale, they'd increase prices to cover an increase in cost in materials needed. In Warframe though, you're only selling code in the form of a mod. There's no materials cost involved. Granted, you can charge for the time spent getting that mod, leveling it up (if applicable), and so on. But that's it.

The other day, I got an unveiled Riven from an alert that I spent 5 minutes completing. I don't want or need the thing so I sold it on trade chat for 20p, That was a price I decided on myself and someone accepted it. I could have charged 5p for it if I wanted to, but decided on 20p. No one questioned it.

And that's the problem with trade chat.

That being said, honestly, it's no one's fault but your own if you decide it's acceptable to pay 5000 plat for a "God Tier" Riven. That's a number that someone came up with that they figured they'd get away with charging...which they did. And continue to do on a regular basis. You people just accept this as being normal and don't question it.

Just remember: All that Plat out there that can be traded? It's there because some people decided to exchange real money for it, up to 15 cents for each unit of Plat (assuming no discount at the time of transaction). Remember that Riven I mentioned costing 5000 Plat? Someone paid the ingame equivalent of $375 to $750 in real world money for that Riven.

For some people, that's 1-2 weeks of pay at a job. 

In the grand scheme of things, no mod is worth that much...nor should it be.

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by MirageKnight
Clarity.

[Pixues]

1 hour ago, MirageKnight said:

Right, but people can still choose the price they wish to sell an item for, no?

In a traditional economy, if there's low supply and high demand, a re-seller raises their prices to cover an increase in wholesale cost they paid to the manufacturer. In the case of a seller that manufactures goods for sale, they'd increase prices to cover an increase in cost in materials needed. In Warframe though, you're only selling code in the form of a mod. There's no materials cost involved. Granted, you can charge for the time spent getting that mod, leveling it up (if applicable), and so on. But that's it.

The other day, I got an unveiled Riven from an alert that I spent 5 minutes completing. I don't want or need the thing so I sold it on trade chat for 20p, That was a price I decided on myself and someone accepted it. I could have charged 5p for it if I wanted to, but decided on 20p. No one questioned it.

And that's the problem with trade chat.

That being said, honestly, it's no one's fault but your own if you decide it's acceptable to pay 5000 plat for a "God Tier" Riven. That's a number that someone came up with that they figured they'd get away with charging...which they did. And continue to do on a regular basis. You people just accept this as being normal and don't question it.

Just remember: All that Plat out there that can be traded? It's there because some people decided to exchange real money for it, up to 15 cents for each unit of Plat (assuming no discount at the time of transaction). Remember that Riven I mentioned costing 5000 Plat? Someone paid the ingame equivalent of $375 to $750 in real world money for that Riven.

For some people, that's 1-2 weeks of pay at a job. 

In the grand scheme of things, no mod is worth that much...nor should it be.

 

So in this thread of 'we want more riven slots', none of what you said is relevant.
You are now talking about the absurdity of digital items. Well yes, no, who cares. Welcome to the digital era. 

Some individuals having more riven slots than others is not going change anything for the worse. DE created this situation when they released rivens. But they are here. More slots has nothing to do with the problems of rivens. 

Let me sum it up for everyone:

- There are no monopolies. They are impossible to achieve.
- High and low prices are naturally occurring things in a supply and demand economy. Even if it involves digital items. We can figure out the roots of human nature, and figure out why irrelevant items are so high in price. But that is not necessary here.

If you want to ask those questions, why not ask: Why you are playing this game at all? Its not real. Delete the game and spend time on something that is real. You are here spending time on digital nothing. So some have more to spend on digital nothing than others. Its a dumb concept. move on. 

- Some individuals having more slots than others is not affecting the above mention points. 

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by Pixues

[MirageKnight]

4 hours ago, Pixues said:

So in this thread of 'we want more riven slots', none of what you said is relevant.
You are now talking about the absurdity of digital items. Well yes, no, who cares. Welcome to the digital era. 

Fine. I feel we don't need added Riven slots because honestly Rivens are horribly overrated and not all that critical to real game progression.

There...you happy with my feedback now, self-appointed moderator?

Edited December 12, 2018 by MirageKnight

[Mach25]

6 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

Right, but people can still choose the price they wish to sell an item for, no?

In a traditional economy, if there's low supply and high demand, a re-seller raises their prices to cover an increase in wholesale cost they paid to the manufacturer. In the case of a seller that manufactures goods for sale, they'd increase prices to cover an increase in cost in materials needed. In Warframe though, you're only selling code in the form of a mod. There's no materials cost involved. Granted, you can charge for the time spent getting that mod, leveling it up (if applicable), and so on. But that's it.

The other day, I got an unveiled Riven from an alert that I spent 5 minutes completing. I don't want or need the thing so I sold it on trade chat for 20p, That was a price I decided on myself and someone accepted it. I could have charged 5p for it if I wanted to, but decided on 20p. No one questioned it.

And that's the problem with trade chat.

That being said, honestly, it's no one's fault but your own if you decide it's acceptable to pay 5000 plat for a "God Tier" Riven. That's a number that someone came up with that they figured they'd get away with charging...which they did. And continue to do on a regular basis. You people just accept this as being normal and don't question it.

Just remember: All that Plat out there that can be traded? It's there because some people decided to exchange real money for it, up to 15 cents for each unit of Plat (assuming no discount at the time of transaction). Remember that Riven I mentioned costing 5000 Plat? Someone paid the ingame equivalent of $375 to $750 in real world money for that Riven.

For some people, that's 1-2 weeks of pay at a job. 

In the grand scheme of things, no mod is worth that much...nor should it be.

 

You heretic - it is all about profit! You defy Corpus doctrine! Nef Anyo shall hear of your heresy! /s

Agreed, though - paying prices that high for a riven is not quite my idea of money well-spent.

[MirageKnight]

18 minutes ago, Mach25 said:

Agreed, though - paying prices that high for a riven is not quite my idea of money well-spent.

As much as I agree, someone might consider that to be off-topic and get needlessly salty and rude reprimand you for it.

[Mach25]

19 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

As much as I agree, someone might consider that to be off-topic and get needlessly salty and rude reprimand you for it.

Don't care enough about them or their displeasure as to bother reading what they write - I answer reasonable people who are able to form coherent and meaningful writings, such as yourself. Still, Barnum's saying (or what is attributed to him) holds true.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Mach25

[Enno69]

I don't want more riven slots. Screw rivens. Never needed them before, don't need them now. For the most part they just contribute to powercreep. The day the devs restrict their use to broken or unused weapons (since their original purpose was to buff those) or limit their stats to utility-based ones without damage increases, then I'll take a look at them. 

[Pixues]

4 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

Fine. I feel we don't need added Riven slots because honestly Rivens are horribly overrated and not all that critical to real game progression.

There...you happy with my feedback now, self-appointed moderator?

So what is your problem with others having more riven slots. You feel like you don't need it for progression. They are inventory space. It doesn't mean someone can equip two rivens on their weapons. And I already made clear that inventory space for rivens has no effect on the market prices. What is preventing you from saying 'if others have more slots, that is just fine' ? 

 

3 hours ago, Mach25 said:

Don't care enough about them or their displeasure as to bother reading what they write - I answer reasonable people who are able to form coherent and meaningful writings, such as yourself. Still, Barnum's saying (or what is attributed to him) holds true.

The reason you found my writing in a bit displeasurable state, well, when I explain that slots do nothing. People move on to explaining how they are discontent with digital purple mods and it's prices. When I explain that digital mods still sell like real items for whatever reason but in the end the absurdity doesn't matter when it comes to digital inventory space. Then I'm a self proclaimed mod. 

You may find it not money well spent. Neither do I. But let those people be. I don't spend 750 on a riven. But I can collect them through drops or much cheaper trades. So how does inventory space matter, now that most things are out of the way?