(NSW)gl9k

Why is there so much negativity about the game?

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So any words you don't like are buzzwords, got it.

4 minutes ago, Marrond said:

Ah, another set of buzzwords used mainly by gaming press journalists shills and corporate white knights that bear no meaning. After all any sort of complaint valid or not is a sign of whining and entitlement as soon as we don't agree with it. Spoiler alert - everyone have a right for an opinion whether you like it or not - doesn't make it inherently bad. Fact.

 

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IMHO the reason for negativity is because this game has no clear direction. So everyone has defined their own idea of what this game should be.

There needs to be a defined end game at some point or it just feels like grinding for the sake of grinding.

I've never seen a game ask you to acquire all this ridiculous power and then neglect to give you anything to do with it.

Where's the content that puts all of it to use and makes it all worth it? Will there ever be a payoff?

That's the thing that always kills my short stints with warframe;

The realization that any time, effort or money is going to waste while they hem and haw internally about wtf this game even is.

It starts to feel like a skinner box after awhile with no context or purpose.

Edited by IIDMOII
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Just now, (NSW)gl9k said:

So any words you don't like are buzzwords, got it.

I don't know, you tell me. One is accurate representation of reality, other is perceived negativity and insecurity about hive mind being conflicted.

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21 minutes ago, (NSW)gl9k said:

fine then, I'll call it what it really is: whining and an attitude of entitlement. Don't want to use buzzwords after all.

Even that has a basis. The idea that they bought the game and it belongs to them like a single player or console game is where it starts. MMOs arent  bought. They are rented. Until people start realizing this, they will continue to have that entitlement attitude.

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People are bound to find something they hate with a passion in anything they involve themselves with for hundreds of hours.

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I was a huge Warframe fan until their last twitch drop campaign, where they duped their player base into becoming bots to drive up viewer numbers.  Once you find that a company is willing to use unethical practices that screw their players for their on gain, it SEVERELY sours you to singing their praises.

And before someone comments that I got free stuff from the twitch drop campaign, I will preempt you and say no, I didn't.  You can read my full breakdown in the events forum, but my total data overage from the event will end up adding $60 dollars to my bill from my ISP.  Even with all the items I received, It will not actually give me the plat equivalent I would have gotten had i just bought $60 in plat at no cost (not to mention that i would not have spent plat on the items i received anyway).  

Since the campaign, I have only sporadically logged in.  I have not ran any missions.  I absolutely REFUSE to give DE any more of my money.  

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No point sugar coating anything. Just as much (if not more tbh...) bad kinda happens with the game as good things happen to it as well. One of the big issues at heart has always been a seriously bad lack of direction.

 

The negativity is usually fair concerns from jaded players. Negative feedback doesn't necessarily mean people hate it. Just wanna see it do better, because we know it can do so. That's completely in DE's hands to fix however so...

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11 hours ago, (NSW)gl9k said:

I have been playing Warframe on and off until this last summer where I started playing regularly. I have been enjoying the game a lot so far and thus decided to search for content by the community (In places like Youtube and these forums) and I was surprised at the amount of negativity some people have about this game. For instance the last few updates (arbitrations and Fortuna being the most notable examples) have been mostly met with criticism on these platforms (and not the constructive kind because often times it's just people complaining without any suggestion on how to improve them).

Even though I am not far into the game and thus not burning out, the overall negative mood of the community really is killing my drive to play more because I think "Will I become this bitter after playing for a bit?". I am just making this post to ask why the community has to be so negative about the game that they supposedly love? If the criticism were constructive it would be one thing but it's not. it's just griping.

I've been playing 4+ years.not burned out... Never once have I had any complaints about content drought... Not bored... 

It depends on the person. 

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43 minutes ago, Arekin said:

I was a huge Warframe fan until their last twitch drop campaign, where they duped their player base into becoming bots to drive up viewer numbers.  Once you find that a company is willing to use unethical practices that screw their players for their on gain, it SEVERELY sours you to singing their praises.

And before someone comments that I got free stuff from the twitch drop campaign, I will preempt you and say no, I didn't.  You can read my full breakdown in the events forum, but my total data overage from the event will end up adding $60 dollars to my bill from my ISP.  Even with all the items I received, It will not actually give me the plat equivalent I would have gotten had i just bought $60 in plat at no cost (not to mention that i would not have spent plat on the items i received anyway).  

Since the campaign, I have only sporadically logged in.  I have not ran any missions.  I absolutely REFUSE to give DE any more of my money.  

Your part of the problem

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54 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

You're part of the problem

Because?  I shouldn't expect a company to be fair or honest?  I shouldn't complain when a company dupes me?  Had DE been honest about the odds to get any of the high value items in that campaign, I (and many others) would not have devoted near the time into the twitch campaign as we did.  When other companies do shady things with loot boxes or xp values, its acceptable to call them out, but because you support DE when they do shady things, I become the problem?

I think maybe you lack any semblance of objectivity here.

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11 hours ago, (NSW)gl9k said:

if you look in general you will see threads saying stuff like "Fortuna was disappointing for me" or stuff like that. it's there.

That probably does exist but I think that is due to hyping and expecting things that were never promised in initial release, and that being an entirely separate topic of discussion. Relevant in the sense of negativity but not for the same reasons. Speaking of the topic of negativity I do think there is more of that than there used to be but is that because of general attitude change towards the game or because the game has grown since then? I think that when I view the game so far and the community, my answer would be the lateral one. Think about people like Skill-Up, a big growing youtuber praising a game he previously had no interest in whatsoever. Or Lirik who said Warframe was fun now that he tried it for the first time after Fortuna.

Like another player suggested, people who are satisfied rarely say anything because they are busy playing and enjoying the experience (that would be me as well), some talk about the things that do not work out of passion and love for the game, and then there is a visible minority that out of one reason (like unrealistic expectations they themselves created in their own heads) or another. Whatever the case may be I do think that at the end of the day things are going mostly well. Yes you see negativity but that is not always coming from a malicious place and hopefully DE understands this as well.

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1 hour ago, Arekin said:

I was a huge Warframe fan until their last twitch drop campaign, where they duped their player base into becoming bots to drive up viewer numbers.  Once you find that a company is willing to use unethical practices that screw their players for their on gain, it SEVERELY sours you to singing their praises.

And before someone comments that I got free stuff from the twitch drop campaign, I will preempt you and say no, I didn't.  You can read my full breakdown in the events forum, but my total data overage from the event will end up adding $60 dollars to my bill from my ISP.  Even with all the items I received, It will not actually give me the plat equivalent I would have gotten had i just bought $60 in plat at no cost (not to mention that i would not have spent plat on the items i received anyway).  

Since the campaign, I have only sporadically logged in.  I have not ran any missions.  I absolutely REFUSE to give DE any more of my money.  

Okay, bye. Your money will not even put a dent in their bottom dollar. I don't know why you come here to announce that they will never spend money on WF again. Your comment does nothing for anyone and is pointless. It does not answer OPs question or further the thread at all. All you are doing is derailing this thread. 

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18 minutes ago, (XB1)Eminem2420 said:

Okay, bye. Your money will not even put a dent in their bottom dollar. I don't know why you come here to announce that they will never spend money on WF again. Your comment does nothing for anyone and is pointless. It does not answer OPs question or further the thread at all. All you are doing is derailing this thread. 

Op literally asked why there was Criticism about the game, and while there are many criticisms, I stated my personal criticism.  I would love for you to how my literally typing a direct response to the OP's question is "derailing this thread.  Also, assuming DE reads these threads (I would hope yes), I would think that expressing my distaste for their campaign would encourage them to correct course rather than continue on a dubious practice.  Stating that I wont spend money on their product is not because I think that I personally will put a dent in their bottom dollar, but if it makes them analyze their practice and see that it could affect their bottom dollar if continued, then my point is well made.

Lastly, Bye?  I never played with you, and by your dismissive attitude, i don't believe I ever would.    

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31 minutes ago, Arekin said:

Because?  I shouldn't expect a company to be fair or honest?  I shouldn't complain when a company dupes me?  Had DE been honest about the odds to get any of the high value items in that campaign, I (and many others) would not have devoted near the time into the twitch campaign as we did.  When other companies do shady things with loot boxes or xp values, its acceptable to call them out, but because you support DE when they do shady things, I become the problem?

I think maybe you lack any semblance of objectivity here.

They didn't do anything shady. It's rng boy. Go cry to ur mama.

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Just now, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

They didn't do anything shady. It's rng boy. Go cry to your mama.

Yeah, I'm twice your age, but then seeing as you could articulate a reason for your initial response, I don't know why I would expect this one to be different.  
Also, Your is not a substitute for you're, and ur is not a substitute for your.  Grammar please.

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10 hours ago, German said:

Because we haven't "received it for free" people like me pay for them. This isn't a charity, it's a business model. I love Warframe and DE but they deserve and need criticism, especially since the change of development after Plains of Eidolon.

And you can't even "burn" through the content anymore since the recent content is time gated.

I’m not entirely sure what you mean by “received it for free” here.  There’s nothing you need to pay for unless you choose to do so.  Nothing is hidden behind a pay wall.  

 

Everyone deserves criticism for something.  I’m not sure what yours is though.  Perhaps if the “time-gating” impediment you refer to is your criticism, what would you do differently? How would you implement it in a way that would satisfy the majority of gamers? I’m personally okay with it and actually prefer it. Are my feelings more or less important than yours? Can DE make a decision that satisfies both of us? My point is that they’ll upset one person, or many more, with any decision that they make. If you have a criticism that’s fine, legitimize it with an idea that changes it from just complaining about not getting what you want to offering insight on how to fix something you feel lacks good implementation. 

For example:

this gun sucks. It’s trash tier.  

Vs 

this gun doesn’t really match up to other weapons in its tier. Boosting its IPS spread or giving it more Status would give it better results. What does everyone else think?

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5 hours ago, Marrond said:

Ah, another set of buzzwords used mainly by gaming press journalists shills and corporate white knights that bear no meaning. After all any sort of complaint valid or not is a sign of whining and entitlement as soon as we don't agree with it. Spoiler alert - everyone have a right for an opinion whether you like it or not - doesn't make it inherently bad. Fact.

The minute someone tosses out “white-knight” as an argument then they’ve delegitimized any argument they make against buzzwords.  It’s also funny that you say everyone has a right to an opinion and then tell them they’re a “white-knight” for expressing theirs.  Fact.  Also aren’t you a “white knight” for coming to the rescue of those who make a “complaint valid or not?” The phrase is so stupid and oxymoronic in its implementation by most people it has lost any and all meaning it may have had and needs to die.  The people using it are often far more triggered than the people they’re arguing against.  

If you have a complaint, that’s fine.  I said earlier that complaining doesn’t really do anything though.  You have to legitimize it with actual constructive feedback that gives ideas or asks for others to proffer their own if you’re not sure.  Otherwise DE I’m fairly sure will just ignore whatever your, possibly legitimate, feedback could have been.  

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14 minutes ago, jfhsanseiIII said:

If you have a criticism that’s fine, legitimize it with an idea that changes it from just complaining about not getting what you want to offering insight on how to fix something you feel lacks good implementation. 

You don't need to provide fix ideas for game designers in order to have legitimate complaint. Both of your examples are equally valid as a criticism, it's just that you choose to dislike one over another based on the form and not information it provides. They provide same value - an information that object B is lackluster, not working properly or requires change. Whether you provide solution for it or not is completely optional and doesn't in any way, shape or form legitimize your criticism. In 90% of cases game designer will not be following your suggestions but might come to the same conclusion after brainstorming possible solutions to the presented problem (after which you score free bonus points for "listening to the community" - PR class 101). 

 

2 minutes ago, jfhsanseiIII said:

If you have a complaint, that’s fine.  I said earlier that complaining doesn’t really do anything though.  You have to legitimize it with actual constructive feedback that gives ideas or asks for others to proffer their own if you’re not sure.  Otherwise DE I’m fairly sure will just ignore whatever your, possibly legitimate, feedback could have been.

You're trying to argue that being polite gets you places. It's a very idealistic scope to have on the world but life doesn't work that way. No one really cares about your well versed, long elaboration on the problem - you're drop in the sea, impossible to notice by any way but chance. Moment your ideas are heard is when enough droplets start chanting it loud enough that it breaks through the stormy waves. And if someone ignores complaint out of spite because they're not content with the form it was presented with, well, that tells only about person in question. 


Thousands players screaming X is hot garbage has more effects than our meaningless debates on the forum dismantling problems and providing solutions, no one really cares about.

Edited by Marrond
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5 hours ago, IIDMOII said:

IMHO the reason for negativity is because this game has no clear direction. So everyone has defined their own idea of what this game should be.

There needs to be a defined end game at some point or it just feels like grinding for the sake of grinding.

I've never seen a game ask you to acquire all this ridiculous power and then neglect to give you anything to do with it.

Where's the content that puts all of it to use and makes it all worth it? Will there ever be a payoff?

That's the thing that always kills my short stints with warframe;

The realization that any time, effort or money is going to waste while they hem and haw internally about wtf this game even is.

It starts to feel like a skinner box after awhile with no context or purpose.

I think this is true. However, I think some people might actually like that aspect. I’m somewhere in the middle.  I want to know more and have an endgame but also kind of like the “the old war is finished what’s my purpose now” aspect of the game. 

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2 minutes ago, Marrond said:

You don't need to provide fix ideas for game designers in order to have legitimate complaint. Both of your examples are equally valid as a criticism, it's just that you choose to dislike one over another based on the form and not information it provides. They provide same value - an information that object B is lackluster, not working properly or requires change. Whether you provide solution for it or not is completely optional and doesn't in any way, shape or form legitimize your criticism. In 90% of cases game designer will not be following your suggestions but might come to the same conclusion after brainstorming possible solutions to the presented problem (after which you score free bonus points for "listening to the community" - PR class 101). 

I pray you are never in charge of other people.  People are more receptive to constructive criticism.  That’s not a choice.  Thats in How to be a Human 101. Mayhaps you missed that lesson.  It’s somewhere between don’t eat your booger’s 302 and don’t punch the kid you like 104.  You may choose to not do so, but people will probably (read usually) ignore anything you have to say. 

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Cause ppl keep posting bait title topics, utubers keep posting bait title video, those attracts trolls.

And you, my friend, just post another one.

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15 minutes ago, Marrond said:

You're trying to argue that being polite gets you places. It's a very idealistic scope to have on the world but life doesn't work that way. No one really cares about your well versed, long elaboration on the problem - you're drop in the sea, impossible to notice by any way but chance. Moment your ideas are heard is when enough droplets start chanting it loud enough that it breaks through the stormy waves. And if someone ignores complaint out of spite because they're not content with the form it was presented with, well, that tells only about person in question. 


Thousands players screaming X is hot garbage has more effects than our meaningless debates on the forum dismantling problems and providing solutions, no one really cares about.

All I see here is you saying that you lack the ability to communicate ideas with any insight.  If that’s you then that’s you. Again I feel sorry for the people that have to talk to you for more than a couple of minutes. 

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16 minutes ago, jfhsanseiIII said:

I pray you are never in charge of other people.  People are more receptive to constructive criticism.  That’s not a choice.  Thats in How to be a Human 101. Mayhaps you missed that lesson.  It’s somewhere between don’t eat your booger’s 302 and don’t punch the kid you like 104.  You may choose to not do so, but people will probably (read usually) ignore anything you have to say. 

You can stop praying, it's too late for that. It's already happening. You know what people appreciate more than your words? The results you provide.

Criticism doesn't need to be constructive to be valid. Constructive criticism is just form of politely saying "your idea suck balls, here's my better idea" in a way that hopefully doesn't offend the other person. And don't worry about my social interactions - I come from place where people don't beat around the bush and are pretty upfront. 

Edited by Marrond
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Feedback is the most important thing you can give to a developer. It means that you care about the game and with the right feedback they change things. If they dont know what the do wrong they will not change anything because they think it's fine.

I also think the WF YouTubers are really important. They make the game popular and give also just opinions. 90% of them are not full time YTs so stop wity the unessesary hate for just clicks. Most of them have jobs so that's just a thing that they like. That just shows that you have no idea how YouTube works. Its not just black and white guys. There is a reason why they have a big impact: a lot of people agree.

 

In the end you have to know what is useless toxicity and what is kritic. Try first to be neutral and they argument. If you cant do that try to avoid the forums. But the feedback section is also the place where the devs go.

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Btw White Knights that just say "DE is fine and they dont have to di anything" are the worst. Because they contribute nothing to the conversation and can shut down important critics. Dont white knight.

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