Why is there so much negativity about the game?

[Kontrollo]

Imho there are a few reasons. Now I'm only talking about the bad examples here; especially in places like Players Helping Players you can find a lot of counterexamples, too:

• A lot of people who enjoy the game do just that, why bother wasting time writing/talking about it instead, or arguing with others?
• Some people are past the point of being able to enjoy the game. But they've spent a lot of time and effort, so they're not yet willing to take a break or move on.
• Some simply have no sense of value
  • Similar, but not entirely the same: straight-up entitlement
• Some criticism is fair, nobody's perfect and the devs have to walk a tightrope trying to please as many people as possible, after all.
  • but some people are unable to express that properly (see also: GIFT)
• And then some seem to enjoy (?) doing that instead of playing the game. Part of these are simply trolling, and others seem to do it for whatever reason. Honestly, I don't know either. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

It's best to not worry about it too much, tbh.

[TARINunit9]

Because we love it, but it's not perfect, so it's easier to talk about the few thing what isn't good than the mountains of what is good

[notlamprey]

3 hours ago, (NSW)gl9k said:

I have been playing Warframe on and off until this last summer where I started playing regularly. I have been enjoying the game a lot so far and thus decided to search for content by the community (In places like Youtube and these forums) and I was surprised at the amount of negativity some people have about this game. For instance the last few updates (arbitrations and Fortuna being the most notable examples) have been mostly met with criticism on these platforms (and not the constructive kind because often times it's just people complaining without any suggestion on how to improve them).

Even though I am not far into the game and thus not burning out, the overall negative mood of the community really is killing my drive to play more because I think "Will I become this bitter after playing for a bit?". I am just making this post to ask why the community has to be so negative about the game that they supposedly love? If the criticism were constructive it would be one thing but it's not. it's just griping.

I've taught myself not to be surprised about any amount of "negativity" on any topic. There's a very important reason for that: you cannot discuss anything in only positive terms. Everything has a negative side, and the people speaking from that side have a very important (I would say indispensible) role in the conversation. There will always be "negativity," it will always be necessary, and it's up to us to process it into something useful when we encounter it.

    In other words, try not to let it get you down. If that wavelength isn't the one you want to spend your time on, then maybe you aren't cut out to live on that side of the coin so much. I'm a deeply "negative" person by nature, so it doesn't put really ever put me off my groove to any great degree. Not everybody is like me (thank goodness), and you have to choose where you spend your time as you learn to get comfortable on all sides of things.

    Above all else, if you're having fun - stay where the fun is. You simply would not believe the depths of madness and drama this game community has weathered over the years, and the further you can stay clear of that the better.

 

[SaiTatter]

3 hours ago, (NSW)gl9k said:

I am just confused because it seems the community is ungrateful for everything we have received for free. There are some players who seemingly burn through all the new content in the first week or two of the update being out and go right back to "Muh content drought".

Agreed they should take a break and play Destiny 2, the game that has updates 2-3 times a year, no devstreams from what I know, boring gameplay and an even worse story. After that, the haters should come back and realize how wrong they were. Even if an update is not what I expected, I love to give constructive critics, even from a posture of game reviewer for 2 years already. The fact that the devs are so close to the community, doing weekly streams and biweekly devstreams, wow never seen any other dev doing that. It feels like we are a part of the development. I agree Fortuna lacks a lot of things, for example for a map 3-4 times the size of poe it should have more exploration activities.

[(XBOX)Eminem2420]

On YouTube, it pays to be as negative and whiny as possible. People love to see someone complaining for some reason. Their opinions are less than worthless, because you can't trust that its their genuine opinion. Its usually highly exaggerated. On the forums its the vocal minority claiming to speak for the majority. People in WF act very different in the game vs in the forums. Do not think that people in the forums and YouTube represent the majority of players, they don't in the slightest.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

The negativity comes from an extremely loud minority.

If you go to YouTube & these forums you'll find that the Salt not only reached Critical Mass but has also Ascended to a new form of existence.

This is mostly due to:

A. Youtubers/Streamers basically live on the game. Their level of burn out is quite possibly beyond what anyone can fathom.

(Also, negativity garners views & hence a paycheck for them.)

B. Long Term Veteran & Hardcore players

"Mostly" (not all but the majority) exist on this game. When they aren't at work or school, they are playing Warframe or Warframe Forums.

The common denominator between these 2 groups is: Burnout

They have everything, have maximized everything, are mostly (not all of em are...) the most skilled warframe players on the planet.

The only true way to challenge them is to limit them, their metas, or restrict their toolkit. Which they strongly dislike.

They ask for content that will push them to the point of exhaustion, that gets harder & harder & eventually will push them out.

ESO is added.

They ask for Elite Alerts that will make dodging, blocking, strategy, & life matter.

Arbitrations gets added.

They ask for enemies that cannot be spammed to death and that will force them to be aggressive.

Nullifiers, Nul Comba & Nul Scrambus get added.

They ask for heavy hard hitting enemies that can't be killed too easily...

Nox are spawned I to existence.

They ask for gameplay that brings everything across the game into cohesion.

Eidolons...

The common issue seems to be that all this is labeled as: Annoying, Limiting, Tedious, & etc.

For some it appears that challenge gets relabeled as "irritating" when it actually gets presented.

Others see it as the top % of players just want to fight enemies where they can cut loose, go all out, & etc forever. (Which wouldn't be a challenge....if you think about it...)

Some see Endgame as needing to be balks to the wall Dark Souls hard. Yet somehow retain the extreme power that players currently have...

So there is a conflict there.

DE is aware of the issue but every combat change they present is met with extreme hostility. (No one wants to lose their toys or have their toys weakened it seems. Yet they want a better balanced and challenging game that isn't all one shots.)

IMPO it's all burnout. If folks took a break they'd return & rediscover the fun the game has.

But today's gamer culture seems to be one of: "Pick a game & make it your job."

When people do that, the game ceases to be fun & becomes work. So folks grow disgruntled, complacent, & desperate for change.

The bulk of the Warframe playerbase is not negative however. The In-game playerbase is significantly more positive & friendly than anything you'll find outside the medium of the game.

[notlamprey]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

The bulk of the Warframe playerbase is not negative however. The In-game playerbase is significantly more positive & friendly than anything you'll find outside the medium of the game.

a thousand times this right here btw

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

The only negativity I see are on the forums, ironically.

The most amusing part is that many of the pessimistic posts here are based solely on misinformation and even elitism. 

Sadly the this community is not immune to echo chamber syndrome, which is the main culprit.  There have been several threads in the past 7 days alone which all follow similar themes in which follow this trend to a tee, regardless of whether the issue can be resolved by the player themselves or attempting to alter the game for everyone else to suit their own playstyle.

In many cases you can just laugh at them and enjoy your day, works for me.

[(XBOX)Sumosan13]

OP, don't let it ruin your WF experience.  Sure there are some rough posts from time to time but it's a game forum, pretty much the same everywhere else.  I've been a gamer for probably around 30 years, I see things come and go.

Warframe as a whole is a great game and I've been hooked for almost 1700 hours so far, the community as a whole is one of the better ones I've experienced too.  Take forums (and YouTube) for what it is, a place where people voice their opinion.  Way too many excellent points in the posts above to quote, but this whole thread hopefully helped you out.

This is my first post ever on these forums, I'm usually playing Warframe (and not posting on the forums) or at work (currently slacking off at the latter so took the time to provide my input LOL).

[LarryYourWaiter]

This forum (and all Internet forums) is the noisy minority.  The vast majority of players are just playing and enjoying it without coming here to bark about it.

if you chat to randoms you team up with, you’ll find most are great.  I suppose that’s a bit different from location to location - I’m in Australia so I get connected to other aussies.

[--END--Rikutatis]

4 hours ago, (NSW)gl9k said:

...

What people said is true, a good chunk of players who are happy with the game won't be hanging out and posting on the forums or making youtube videos about it (although some do).

However I feel like you should at least understand the major reason why a segment of the veteran community appears to be disgruntled with the game: the lack of challenge, endgame content, and too much focus on making everything accessible to newer/casual players to the point of watering down (or outright removing) content that is deemed difficult. You'll only start experiencing this several hundred hours into the game, maybe even 1k+ hours, but these latest dev attempts of adding challenging content for vets (ESO, Arbitrations) have all been watered down in some way or another to make them accessible to newer players. For those who follow dev streams and update posts, we know starting levels were lowered in both cases, enemies nerfed, scaling is slower, etc etc. On top of that previous game modes that were considered challenging and difficult in their own way, like void keys or trials, have been completely removed from the game. Any sort of coop or communication requirements between players is also removed, to make everything solo friendly. They already announced Railjack will be soloable. So yea, that's the reason vets who enjoy a challenge get disgruntled, it's not just because they're burnt out and play WF too much like someone here suggested. It's a playstyle thing. 

[gl9k]

41 minutes ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

What people said is true, a good chunk of players who are happy with the game won't be hanging out and posting on the forums or making youtube videos about it (although some do).

However I feel like you should at least understand the major reason why a segment of the veteran community appears to be disgruntled with the game: the lack of challenge, endgame content, and too much focus on making everything accessible to newer/casual players to the point of watering down (or outright removing) content that is deemed difficult. You'll only start experiencing this several hundred hours into the game, maybe even 1k+ hours, but these latest dev attempts of adding challenging content for vets (ESO, Arbitrations) have all been watered down in some way or another to make them accessible to newer players. For those who follow dev streams and update posts, we know starting levels were lowered in both cases, enemies nerfed, scaling is slower, etc etc. On top of that previous game modes that were considered challenging and difficult in their own way, like void keys or trials, have been completely removed from the game. Any sort of coop or communication requirements between players is also removed, to make everything solo friendly. They already announced Railjack will be soloable. So yea, that's the reason vets who enjoy a challenge get disgruntled, it's not just because they're burnt out and play WF too much like someone here suggested. It's a playstyle thing. 

Can you give me some examples of some of the stuff removed with the stated purpose of "making the game accessible to newer players"?

[(PSN)robotwars7]

there's pelnty positivity about the game as well. you are in control of what you watch and hear in regards to warframe, and if you only search for negativity, that's all youfind, if you search for positivity, that's all you find, the people on here who seem to hate the game just want something to be changed for themselves, without always thinking about how changing the game would affect everybody else as well. I wouldn't read too much into it honestly.

just focus on enjoying YOUR warframe experience, don't give a Drahk's behind about what anyone else says.

[Goodwill]

8 minutes ago, (NSW)gl9k said:

Can you give me some examples of some of the stuff removed with the stated purpose of "making the game accessible to newer players"?

• Ability cards
• stamina bar

[(XBOX)XiiX ToM XiiX]

Game just doesn't get new content enough and we just get more new frames with nothing to really use them in. Content as in game modes etc. Long time players just get burnt out fast and censor andy rules chat like a tyrant. Also anything negative said is usually mobbed by fanboys in my experience. Just always an update waiting room game.  

Edited November 27, 2018 by (XB1)XiiX ToM XiiX
A t

[Redfeather75]

It's a great game and keeps people hooked... but some of us stay long enough to see a growing number of things detracting from the game, that make us wonder what digital extremes is doing. There are mods/gear/frames that just don't work well and content that feels like it was abandoned. 😢

How many times does one point out stuff like this...
https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Rifle_Aptitude
https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Sure_Shot
Before just giving up and being negative in general about the game.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Redfeather75

[ThumpumGood]

I've played off and on for 4 years. Just 2 months back after a long break and still enjoy the game. I left due to being angry about several changes I thought were detrimental. Mirage Nerf that cost me forma I never got back, Having to run back and forth across the map in excavations instead of them coming down linearly which wastes time and more. Was going to come back and heard about the removal of the raids and stayed away longer. Fishing didnt please me much. My attitude was, "If I wanna fish, I'l play ESO."

Why do I tell you this? Because this is how people think. They forget that they arent the owners of the game and changes that warp their view of the game REALLY make them angry and they take it out on the staff. It's not your game. In MMOs, you dont buy the game, you RENT it. You dont get your money back from the house or apartment you rented. You dont get compensation for pipes bursting and having to be put up in a hotel while they fix it. But people think differently about gaming so there's a lot of attitude associated with games because they dont realize they are RENTING the game. Or, renting space on a game.

It happens in EVERY MMO. By saying you have BOUGHT the game, you instill a sense of ownership in the game that makes you think you have the right to tell the devs what they should and shouldnt do. You're wrong.

[Redfeather75]

1 minute ago, ThumpumGood said:

My attitude was, "If I wanna fish, I'l play ESO."

I played elder scrolls online too, but I know ESO is used in this game to refer to something else. 😄

[ThumpumGood]

6 minutes ago, Redfeather75 said:

I played elder scrolls online too, but I know ESO is used in this game to refer to something else. 😄

DOH!- yeah... should have put something like Ever Dolesoutmoney Online.

[--END--Rikutatis]

1 hour ago, (NSW)gl9k said:

Can you give me some examples of some of the stuff removed with the stated purpose of "making the game accessible to newer players"?

Void keys (before primes were acquired through void fissures) and more recently trials (WF's version of raids). 

EDIT: Also read newer/casual players. Same thing happened to both WoW and ESO (elder scrolls online), really. Except those games at least still had their pvp to keep the endgame challenge up. 

Edited November 27, 2018 by --END--Rikutatis

[ThumpumGood]

Raids were removed, Void Keys were removed, Many Nerfs came in.... At the Time I was seeing Nerfs, the Raids were at a fixed level and the frames people were using to run to mob level 300+ were making a joke out of the Raids so somewhat understandable. Cant have uberframes in fixed level content. The randomization of the excavators making the group have to spread out if they wanted to complete with any kind of speed, ... there were a lot of changes that effected the player base negatively.

But as I said previously - You rent the game, you dont buy it so .... you really cant complain about content unless it's bugged. If you dont like the content or content changes, your only two choices are to grin and bear it or to find another game. But you'll be back. I came back.

[Marrond]

Negativity means these days as much as calling each other racist or nazi - lost it's meaning and people use it to describe anything they disagree with and/or don't like...

[gl9k]

20 minutes ago, Marrond said:

Negativity means these days as much as calling each other racist or nazi - lost it's meaning and people use it to describe anything they disagree with and/or don't like...

fine then, I'll call it what it really is: whining and an attitude of entitlement. Don't want to use buzzwords after all.

[Marrond]

3 minutes ago, (NSW)gl9k said:

fine then, I'll call it what it really is: whining and an attitude of entitlement. Don't want to use buzzwords after all.

Ah, another set of buzzwords used mainly by gaming press journalists shills and corporate white knights that bear no meaning. After all any sort of complaint valid or not is a sign of whining and entitlement as soon as we don't agree with it. Spoiler alert - everyone have a right for an opinion whether you like it or not - doesn't make it inherently bad. Fact.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Marrond

[gl9k]

So any words you don't like are buzzwords, got it.

4 minutes ago, Marrond said:

Ah, another set of buzzwords used mainly by gaming press journalists shills and corporate white knights that bear no meaning. After all any sort of complaint valid or not is a sign of whining and entitlement as soon as we don't agree with it. Spoiler alert - everyone have a right for an opinion whether you like it or not - doesn't make it inherently bad. Fact.