WE WANT BOSSFIGHTS

[xXDeadsinxX]

9 minutes ago, 180Degree said:

I  don't need criticism that is based on nothing but an opinion from some1 that does not have the expertise to back it up.

The irony is real in this one.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I think it's more about needing to rework current bosses. DE showed Concept art for reworked Nef Anyo and Phorid boss fights, but they've since been either scrapped or just forgotten about. as it stands though, all the bosses can be quite easily rinsed with our gear, but the last thing we want is a bullet sponge boss.

Personally I'd like to see more agile bosses, like Tyl Regor: less about massive size and durability, more about speed and cunning, with their own abilities. add environment changing stages that make players have to be more aware of their surroundings, and dial up the pace of the combat. maybe give bosses the ability to block or dodge so that you have to time melee attacks more carefully. there's a lot DE could do here, but it doesn't seem to be in the works unfortunately.

[ElGuirrix]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

Phorid

Have they? I wasn't aware of anything being shown about Phorid. Do you know where? I need to see it

[FlusteredFerret]

13 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I want interesting bosses, not target dummy sponges that deal absurd amounts of damage, because that is not challenge or difficulty, that is simply poor design.

An interesting boss would have interesting mechanics, likely different phases. Immunity, massive damage and massive HP arent part of that in most cases.

Immunity/Invulnerability can be part of it if it is made in a proper way. Like say a boss goes immune, you need to go destroy or disable some things in the room that protects him.

Massive damage can be part of it aswell. If they place the massive damage behind proper, dodgable graphed attacks. That turns it into fun gameplay where you need to be aware of those attacks and possibly spread out properly.

Massive HP can be a thing aswell, if done properly and not copied to every single boss. Of course every boss would need a decent health pool to begin with in order for them not to get 1-shot.

The generic damage-sponge bosses have been done to death in games, they are dead horses these days still getting beat up. Neverwinter Online is probably the most boring game when it comes to boss fights because every boss is the same.

Sponge HP - check

Over the top damage that is sometimes more or less unavoidable - check

Adds, adds, adds, adds, adds and then some adds - check

Real boss mechanics - big X, not even close to a thing in that game.

But how would they fit into the game?

Would they simply be copied / cloned targets, in an artificial environment, like in Sanctuary Onslaught?

Or would they need to have some purpose / reason for being, such as the Eidolons, Kuva Guardians, Lephantis etc?

 

Are you simply wanting a test for your gear (with rewards) or something that has some connection to the rest of the game?

 

[SneakyErvin]

Just now, 180Degree said:

Exactly thank you..... you actually understood the post....

To start off sponge bosses have a fun factor on their own and i do agree that certain invincibility can be good in a fight but the way warframe uses it to protect everything they have from keeping it defended is rather annoying then fun.

Yep, the current invincibility of most bosses suck, there are a few real golden bosses in the game though that use great game mechanics.

Kaela De Taym or however she spells it. Just a straight up wonderfully designed boss encounter. Immunity removal relies on the party and how well they play/survive. It is honestly one of the best boss fights I've experienced in a game over the last 20 years.

Tyl Regor, also a perfect boss fights with immunity based on his adds that you need to kill. What the fight needs are less twitchy adds and more lethal ones.

Vor, also a fight that feels like a boss, though a bit to easy the higher up you get. The adds during his bubble could be far deadlier and pose a risk.

Salad V, feels like a proper boss enoC***er where you need to do the right thing to best kill him.

Lephantis, also a boss fight that feels like a boss fight. A bit on the non-lethal side imo, but still has decent mechanics.

Jackal, cool fight with different phases. Just not really durable or deadly enough.

Raptors, the whole kill, collect, drop thing going is a cool "new" boss mechanic. Fail and they'll keep spawning.

Ambulas, decent fight, they could be a bit more bossy or the adds could be far more deadly.

Vay Hek, decent fight, they could skip the immunity though and given him far more HP instead, so a well played group could perfect taking him down instead of waiting on his iFrames before shooting the weakpoint.

And then there are the bad ones, like Mutalist Salad V, Lech Kril, Sargas Ruk, The Sgt, Hyena Pack and Phorid that are just plain too simple or they have iFrames that ruin the fun completely. 

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

 

I know right...I on the other hand want something that can chase us in a boss...I mean so you can't kill it, instead you have to run for the objective or have someone distract the monster, while you high tail it for the spy vault A..

It's supposed to be terrifying and if you hear it breathing you're like where can hide or you fall back on that old saying I don't have to out run the bear..I gotta out run you...We're always so powerful, but it's fun to run into the TANK from Left 4 Dead or the Berserker from Gears of War and yell "ohhh SHhhhootttt!!!"...Warframe's Juggernaut has been poorly handled compared to how he should be when you consider what I mentioned in terrifying boss monsters...De needed to make a new tiles set just for him alone so he could move about and terrorize you...not become some glorified charger...stuck in the geometry to be cheesed...

I spent hours making kill ball machines in Halo's forge and I set it up so that fiery ball of death was chasing you in a course while you hopped from Man Cannon ( Go ahead and laugh I always do)  to man cannon while it was flung behind you while always pursuing... and it was blast..my Halo friends couldn't get enough of the build..because you could solo it and have fun..so the Phorid creature above is based on that concept..only if it catches you you get gassed to death like any good toxic Infested would pull....

I would love for De to add a real Nightmare mission like Alien Isolation where you think you're heading into a normal mission, but you've triggered the Infested's version of the Stalker or Gustrag 3 and instead of it teleporting in among the mobs...you've entered a ghost ship adrift after it murdered the entire ship while waiting for you...

I think a Cat and Mouse game mode would be a ton of fun for players who always feel powerful, but want the "pee the pants fear" some games can deliver in the warframe experience and setting...

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[180Degree]

5 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Yep, the current invincibility of most bosses suck, there are a few real golden bosses in the game though that use great game mechanics.

Kaela De Taym or however she spells it. Just a straight up wonderfully designed boss encounter. Immunity removal relies on the party and how well they play/survive. It is honestly one of the best boss fights I've experienced in a game over the last 20 years.

Tyl Regor, also a perfect boss fights with immunity based on his adds that you need to kill. What the fight needs are less twitchy adds and more lethal ones.

Vor, also a fight that feels like a boss, though a bit to easy the higher up you get. The adds during his bubble could be far deadlier and pose a risk.

Salad V, feels like a proper boss enoC***er where you need to do the right thing to best kill him.

Lephantis, also a boss fight that feels like a boss fight. A bit on the non-lethal side imo, but still has decent mechanics.

Jackal, cool fight with different phases. Just not really durable or deadly enough.

Raptors, the whole kill, collect, drop thing going is a cool "new" boss mechanic. Fail and they'll keep spawning.

Ambulas, decent fight, they could be a bit more bossy or the adds could be far more deadly.

Vay Hek, decent fight, they could skip the immunity though and given him far more HP instead, so a well played group could perfect taking him down instead of waiting on his iFrames before shooting the weakpoint.

And then there are the bad ones, like Mutalist Salad V, Lech Kril, Sargas Ruk, The Sgt, Hyena Pack and Phorid that are just plain too simple or they have iFrames that ruin the fun completely. 

Yeah but i was thinking about the eidolons the other day and imagine if that beast had short term invincibilty and a hella lot more hp.
AND if we could fight it with only using our frames it would be so awesome to do so.

There lies a desire for killing big bosses in every mmo player imo.
And what game is better in making awesome bosses and super polished enviroments to fight it in then warframe.

[SneakyErvin]

5 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

But how would they fit into the game?

Would they simply be copied / cloned targets, in an artificial environment, like in Sanctuary Onslaught?

Or would they need to have some purpose / reason for being, such as the Eidolons, Kuva Guardians, Lephantis etc?

 

Are you simply wanting a test for your gear (with rewards) or something that has some connection to the rest of the game?

 

Real targets added due to the same reasons as Eidolons etc. Something that connects with and builds on the lore/story while also bringing more of a challenge to the game.

I wouldnt mind if they made a new game mode based around boss hunting with several new and old bosses in the mix. They could even revamp all current bosses and their tiles to make me happy. Maybe turn them into more MMO-like dungeons with mini-bosses and main-bosses so it isnt all about rushing past everything to the end boss.

They've shown with fortuna and the alert levels there that it is possible for them to make interesting Elite units. That would be a prime thing to add to revamped boss tiles instead of having the normal mobs.

They could keep the old tiles with the bosses for the star chart and then add a new mode ontop of it where it would be more like dungeons of a far higher challenge level and difficulty. Much like how WoW and other games have normal and heroic versions of dungeons.

[Xirka]

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

Keep imaging that. 

(please)

I think he might look more like the stuff we see on walls in infested areas....

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, 180Degree said:

Yeah but i was thinking about the eidolons the other day and imagine if that beast had short term invincibilty and a hella lot more hp.
AND if we could fight it with only using our frames it would be so awesome to do so.

There lies a desire for killing big bosses in every mmo player imo.
And what game is better in making awesome bosses and super polished enviroments to fight it in then warframe.

I wouldnt mind if they skipped the whole operator thing with eidolons. To me it is just a boring mechanic and would also rather just have a good straight up boss fight with our frames and their abilities. Though I generally dislike the eidolons at the core because they are nothing more than screen clutter on two legs, there is simply too much going on with flashy effects etc. And with the way the WF camera works, huge monsters arent ideal when you need to stand that close to them. 

[180Degree]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

 

I know right...I on the other hand want something that can chase us in a boss...I mean so you can't kill it instead you have to run for the objective or have someone distract the monster while you high tailed it for the spy vault A..

It's supposed to be terrifying and if you hear it breathing you're like where can hide or you fall back on that old saying I don't have to out run the bear..I gotta out run you...We're always so powerful, but it's fun to run into the TANK from Left 4 Dead or the Berserker from Gears of War and yell "ohhh SHhhhootttt!!!"...Warframe's Juggernaut has been poorly handled compared to how he should be when you consider what I mentioned in terrifying boss monsters...De needed to make a new tiles set just for him alone so he could move about and terrorize you...not become some glorified charger...stuck in the geometry to be cheesed...

I spent hours making kill ball machines in Halo's forge and I set it up so that fiery ball of death was chasing you in a course while you hopped from Man Cannon ( Go ahead and laugh I always do)  to man cannon while it was flung behind you while always pursuing... and it was blast..my Halo friends couldn't get enough of the build..because you could solo it and have fun..

I would love for De to add a real Nightmare mission like Alien Isolation where you think you're heading into a normal mission, but you've triggered the Infested's version of the Stalker or Gustrag 3 and instead of it teleporting in among the mobs...you've entered a ghost ship adrift after it murdered the entire ship while waiting for you...

I think a Cat and Mouse game mode would be a ton of fun for players who always feel powerful, but want the "pee the pants fear" some games can deliver in the warframe experience and setting...

 

Cat and mouse concept is so fun....
 

But frames are too strong for that.. even if we strip all weapons from the frames....

What we can do is a mission where the frame of your whole party get's shut down and you guys have to hide for a monster that chases you guys operators.... damn that would be freakin epic to do. You would actually feel weak bcus you don't have the reliability of your frame alongside you... think about it

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 minutes ago, 180Degree said:

Cat and mouse concept is so fun....
 

But frames are too strong for that.. even if we strip all weapons from the frames....

What we can do is a mission where the frame of your whole party get's shut down and you guys have to hide for a monster that chases you guys operators.... damn that would be freakin epic to do. You would actually feel weak bcus you don't have the reliability of your frame alongside you... think about it

☝️ And they could make it like a giant pumpkin, and have a mechanic where we have to lure it into destroying itself using the environment! While wearing pumpkin helmets! 

 

Uh.. Wait. That sounds familiar and not particularly new. And people complained about it. 🤔 You have a very strange concept of "epic".

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

2 minutes ago, 180Degree said:

Cat and mouse concept is so fun....
 

But frames are too strong for that.. even if we strip all weapons from the frames....

What we can do is a mission where the frame of your whole party get's shut down and you guys have to hide for a monster that chases you guys operators.... damn that would be freakin epic to do. You would actually feel weak bcus you don't have the reliability of your frame alongside you... think about it

Keep the power..make the creature invincible...that's the only way to invoke a universal fear and retain the Cat and Mouse play type,...sometimes you have to strip the power fantasy...so there's no rule it can't be killed..you just have to make it out alive...thus you'd have a Cat and Mouse game type while keeping your guns and build

...It's why I would say that you to enter it's territory rather than it teleport in like the Stalker in the middle of the mission...that would be totally unfair to any new players..no it would be like you got a Infested mark for death..and you know you're going to enter a mission one day and this thing that is cross between Indiana Jone's Iconic boulder and Nidus's Larva is waiting to hunt you down somewhere between vault A B and C....

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

1 minute ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

☝️ And they could make it like a giant pumpkin, and have a mechanic where we have to lure it into destroying itself using the environment! While wearing pumpkin helmets! 

 

Uh.. Wait. That sounds familiar and not particularly new. And people complained about it. 🤔 You have a very strange concept of "epic".

Thats the juggernaut and on earth and he's not fun..and this is supposed to be for fun...We need Alien Isolation..meets Phorid.

[Sajochi]

1 minute ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

☝️ And they could make it like a giant pumpkin, and have a mechanic where we have to lure it into destroying itself using the environment! While wearing pumpkin helmets! 

 

Uh.. Wait. That sounds familiar and not particularly new. And people complained about it. 🤔 You have a very strange concept of "epic".

Don't you ever speak ill of the one true god. I will not stand for such heresy. How could you not love his (her?) greatness? Why I could just stand in a spot somewhere near some exploding pumpkins and wait for their love to smack me into the infinite cosmos. 

[180Degree]

4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I wouldnt mind if they skipped the whole operator thing with eidolons. To me it is just a boring mechanic and would also rather just have a good straight up boss fight with our frames and their abilities. Though I generally dislike the eidolons at the core because they are nothing more than screen clutter on two legs, there is simply too much going on with flashy effects etc. And with the way the WF camera works, huge monsters arent ideal when you need to stand that close to them. 

XD rofl

The part where we skip the operator and some invincibility frames is my favourite.

Imagine the whole eidolon concept as a boss hunting/collecting mechanic. Im not saying remove it comepletely heck keep it the way it is.
But let's make some new bosses that appear in the lore (warframe is great in making noncense lore im sure they can fit the ''titants'' somewhere in it) 
Proposal: Let's make a new gamemode called Titans where you fight some collosal never bef4 seen monsters that appear in your worst nightmares that can soak some good amounts of dmg and can at the same time deal a sh*t ton, as a daily mission it would be terrific with propper loot to play it.

[FlusteredFerret]

11 minutes ago, 180Degree said:

Cat and mouse concept is so fun....
 

But frames are too strong for that.. even if we strip all weapons from the frames....

What we can do is a mission where the frame of your whole party get's shut down and you guys have to hide for a monster that chases you guys operators.... damn that would be freakin epic to do. You would actually feel weak bcus you don't have the reliability of your frame alongside you... think about it

Well we'd still have our amps, so we wouldn't be exactly defenceless...could even hunt the monster as a group.

Plus Operators are invincible, so even if we died, we'd just return to our frames and start over.

 

[180Degree]

2 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Well we'd still have our amps, so we wouldn't be exactly defenceless...could even hunt the monster as a group.

Plus Operators are invincible, so even if we died, we'd just return to our frames and start over.

 

Your frame would be disabled and if you die you can get revived by other allies if it takes too long to get revived you die... amps will not matter bcus monster is invincible.
That will spark a new idea to make your amp work like a defensive tool instead of attack. Maybe blast some walls open on the map to hide further. Think about it.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

1 minute ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Well we'd still have our amps, so we wouldn't be exactly defenceless...could even hunt the monster as a group.

Plus Operators are invincible, so even if we died, we'd just return to our frames and start over.

 

Maybe void interference...plays a part...the point is to get a Cat and Mouse...game type...we have everything else..we don't have Alien Isolation and Amnesia..and that would be a great Infested horror survival mode that would be different than one more power fantasy that bores everyone...the Original Stalker with the bow terrified everyone in year 1..we're in year 5 and nothing means anything..That's why I want a monster that will make you duck and hide and hope it passes by for once...

[180Degree]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

Maybe void interference...plays a part...the point is to get a Cat and Mouse...game type...we have everything else..we don't have Alien Isolation and Amnesia..and that would be a great Infested horror survival mode that would be different than one more power fantasy that bores everyone...the Original Stalker with the bow terrified everyone in year 1..we're in year 5 and nothing means anything..That's why I want a monster that will make you duck and hide and hope it passes by for once...

Exactly i remember stalker being some1 that every1 was afraid to enchounter and so stoked at the same time... nowedays he feels like a more buffed mob that takes 2 shots instead of 1...

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

Thats the juggernaut and on earth and he's not fun..and this is supposed to be for fun...We need Alien Isolation..meets Phorid.

I know what it is; an aberration of twisted flesh that is incredibly agile for a deformed quadruped. 

Isn't that the effect you're going for, to be fun? Because I figure that's why they created it, just for a bit of fun. 

 

[FlusteredFerret]

21 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Real targets added due to the same reasons as Eidolons etc. Something that connects with and builds on the lore/story while also bringing more of a challenge to the game.

I wouldnt mind if they made a new game mode based around boss hunting with several new and old bosses in the mix. They could even revamp all current bosses and their tiles to make me happy. Maybe turn them into more MMO-like dungeons with mini-bosses and main-bosses so it isnt all about rushing past everything to the end boss.

They've shown with fortuna and the alert levels there that it is possible for them to make interesting Elite units. That would be a prime thing to add to revamped boss tiles instead of having the normal mobs.

They could keep the old tiles with the bosses for the star chart and then add a new mode ontop of it where it would be more like dungeons of a far higher challenge level and difficulty. Much like how WoW and other games have normal and heroic versions of dungeons.

Eh...can't really do that.

You can't have anything lore / story related, as that will then exclude all the "lesser" players. Newer players who haven't had the opportunity to get good enough gear for such a challenge, or people like myself who haven't got the time or patience to grind for really powerful stuff.

Thats why I keep saying any "endgame" content needs to be separate from the main game and all lore / quest-related stuff.

I have no problem with a separate game mode and even unique rewards, but excluding a significant part of the player base from the very thing the game is built around, seems like a bad move to me. That would be like saying Railjack is only for players with MR16 and upward.

 

[kotex073]

Who's we ?

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I know what it is; an aberration of twisted flesh that is incredibly agile for a deformed quadruped. 

Isn't that the effect you're going for, to be fun? Because I figure that's why they created it, just for a bit of fun. 

 

And they failed and typical De they never return to fix it...because they didn't take in account for the geometry and shrunk it down instead of building and infrastructure meant to house it and show case it properly..that's why I designed mine as a more fluid form like an octopus or Nidus's Larva meant to squeeze through the narrow hallways...and move fast to keep up with the players..Look I get it ...you gotta rain on the parade,,it's the forums and thats the nature of forums..but by the your logic it's like lamenting over archwing in order to stop RailJack...bad or not..De is going to De...

Edited November 28, 2018 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[180Degree]

2 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Eh...can't really do that.

You can't have anything lore / story related, as that will then exclude all the "lesser" players. Newer players who haven't had the opportunity to get good enough gear for such a challenge, or people like myself who haven't got the time or patience to grind for really powerful stuff.

Thats why I keep saying any "endgame" content needs to be separate from the main game and all lore / quest-related stuff.

I have no problem with a separate game mode and even unique rewards, but excluding a significant part of the player base from the very thing the game is built around, seems like a bad move to me. That would be like saying Railjack is only for players with MR16 and upward.

 

You are right that's why i said a sortie like mission, just on a daily base, 3 rounds of hunting terrifying bosses or being hunt by 1 for pure lols and some neat loot if you manage to survive the whole fiesta of epicness.