Iron skin vs Nullys

[Rakosta_Kai]

10 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Looool perhaps u should read my original post before u comment.

https://imgur.com/a/UCTHjuY

Ouch... ad hominem deployed.

I guess you have nothing else to bolster the idea besides a slick insult implying I didn't read, huh?

We can pretty much call this one a done deal.

If it helps, I read fully and it was specious.

...So has been just about everything you've spouted since.

10 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Here let me help u with that.

As far as a player having no excuse to be hit by them. Think beyond an endgame scenario. Think beyond players that have every mod and augment in the game and has been playing for years.

Your average joe which makes up well over 50% of the player base... Those players get bombarded by enemies, a nully pops up in their blind spot, nullifies their abilities, and their done for. If nullys reduced iron skin health per sec... It wouldn't be an insta kill...

I don't even have to think up to endgame scenario...Players should have enough common sense to move their frelling feet. when they see these attacks incoming.

...That's basic.

A Rhino unwilling to do that is a bad Rhino and actually lives the stereotype Bad Rhinos have given the rest of the Rhino players in this game.

"The n00b too dumb to move because they can't recognize threats due to leaning on Iron Skin as a crutch."

...In your case, you want DE to add a kickstand to that brand of crutch play.

Not only do you not need it...You need to not have it.

Mad because other frames enjoy that option?...Go play them instead.

10 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Plus im an endgame player. The harder the better... I'm not suggesting this change because the content is daunting for me, or overwhelming. I'm suggesting it, because it makes sense.

No, you aren't....You are suggesting it because you want it.

You make noises about being competent and not needing it personally because you want to impress upon people that this appeal is believable and altruistic.

...I, personally, am not impressed.

• I don't care if you are (or are not) competent.
• I don't see the argument as particularly believable.
• ...And I don't see any altruism evident in the ask.

Players learn by doing and get better by being challenged...Your idea is bad because it asks for players to not get better.

10 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Im not even directing my line of thinking to all the rhino haters... Your opinion while noted, isnt important. As all of u have proven, u cant think objectively and beyond ur own biase.

Another ad hominem...Now I'm a Rhino hater too, huh?

10 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Im directing rhis to casual rhino players and rhino mains. I knoany of you will say yoyr a main so that u can continue to troll me... However, i really believe this change is needed not just for rhino, but also definitely for inaros and frost including other warframes that i haven't thought of specifically.

Uh Huh...OK.

So now I'm trolling you too?!?!

Why, on earth, should people agree with you if the idea is bad?

Why are you labeling players as trolls for having dissenting opinions?

Why would you put forward opinions if you are incapable of taking feedback?

 

FWIW, I don't really have to tell you I'm a Rhino "main"... My profile pretty much does that for me.

I prefer to think of frames as tools for the task and I just generally prefer to run on a few frames—one of which is Rhino quite frequently.

 

As to the rest, I'll give you some advice I give new players as it pertains to Rhino...

Learn how to survive without Iron Skin....It makes you a better player.

 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

49 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Ouch... ad hominem deployed.

I guess you have nothing else to bolster the idea besides a slick insult implying I didn't read, huh?

We can pretty much call this one a done deal.

If it helps, I read fully and it was specious.

...So has been just about everything you've spouted since.

I don't even have to think up to endgame scenario...Players should have enough common sense to move their frelling feet. when they see these attacks incoming.

...That's basic.

A Rhino unwilling to do that is a bad Rhino and actually lives the stereotype Bad Rhinos have given the rest of the Rhino players in this game.

"The n00b too dumb to move because they can't recognize threats due to leaning on Iron Skin as a crutch."

...In your case, you want DE to add a kickstand to that brand of crutch play.

Not only do you not need it...You need to not have it.

Mad because other frames enjoy that option?...Go play them instead.

No, you aren't....You are suggesting it because you want it.

You make noises about being competent and not needing it personally because you want to impress upon people that this appeal is believable and altruistic.

...I, personally, am not impressed.

• I don't care if you are (or are not) competent.
• I don't see the argument as particularly believable.
• ...And I don't see any altruism evident in the ask.

Players learn by doing and get better by being challenged...Your idea is bad because it asks for players to not get better.

Another ad hominem...Now I'm a Rhino hater too, huh?

Uh Huh...OK.

So now I'm trolling you too?!?!

Why, on earth, should people agree with you if the idea is bad?

Why are you labeling players as trolls for having dissenting opinions?

Why would you put forward opinions if you are incapable of taking feedback?

 

FWIW, I don't really have to tell you I'm a Rhino "main"... My profile pretty much does that for me.

I prefer to think of frames as tools for the task and I just generally prefer to run on a few frames—one of which is Rhino quite frequently.

 

As to the rest, I'll give you some advice I give new players as it pertains to Rhino...

Learn how to survive without Iron Skin....It makes you a better player.

 

You specifically may not be a rhino hater, but many commenters in here are.

I mentioned Inaros ult in my original thread, however u said i didn't mention other abilities until yall suggested it. So no, u didn't read it fully.

I don't have to prove that i can or cannot play, im suggesting this as a QoL change. Agree or disagree, i wont be swayed.

[RX-3DR]

32 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

You specifically may not be a rhino hater, but many commenters in here are.

I mentioned Inaros ult in my original thread, however u said i didn't mention other abilities until yall suggested it. So no, u didn't read it fully.

I don't have to prove that i can or cannot play, im suggesting this as a QoL change. Agree or disagree, i wont be swayed.

How would you know if someone hates Rhino or not? Can you read minds, or are you assuming that everyone who disagrees hates Rhino because ALL RHINO PLAYER(mostly you) wants this?

This isn't so much QoL change rather than another way to nerf Nullfiers at this point. I suppose we can declare that removing Nullfication as a whole as a QoL change and anyone who disagrees only do it because they hate all Abilities.

Only area of contention is Inaros. Everything falls into the same rough category that changing one means changing them all to preserve a standard.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

32 minutes ago, Flandyrll said:

How would you know if someone hates Rhino or not? Can you read minds, or are you assuming that everyone who disagrees hates Rhino because ALL RHINO PLAYER(mostly you) wants this?

This isn't so much QoL change rather than another way to nerf Nullfiers at this point. I suppose we can declare that removing Nullfication as a whole as a QoL change and anyone who disagrees only do it because they hate all Abilities.

Only area of contention is Inaros. Everything falls into the same rough category that changing one means changing them all to preserve a standard.

https://imgur.com/a/6xaxSTV

This guy says he hates rhino.

https://imgur.com/a/C1Zvqsc

This guy is contentious towards rhino players. No mind reading here.

Recently, DE nerfed Corpus on Fortuna. If we balance the enemies more, perhaps nerfs would happen less. Id rather face a lvl 100+ nully with my change than a lvl 30 with the way it currently is.

Id bet most casual players and newer players would too. Ofc i wont get comments from most of them unfortunately.

[NocheLuz]

15 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Uhh, yes you can.  I've been playing Ivara for about 3 years with about 84% usage of al that time.  You can definitely do all of that in both invasions and sorties.  You can also wall run, double jump, and aim glide while still in Prowl.  And if you really know what you're doing, you can bulletjump without leaving Prowl.  

you bumping into a nullie while rolling is just a simple case of you not paying attention to your surroundings, period.  The game gives you a mini-map, and Ivara has innate enemy radar, so you bumping into an enemy that randomly appears shouldn't ever happen. 

 😛 

No, you can't... Also,  I know how to bullet-jump while in Prowl. I'm bump into nully because I'm not paying attention? how about I say they just appear out of no where? will you now listen? NO!! you will not because you're so pro at Ivara that make anybody playing her feeling noob because you're so great at her. It's not like her enemy rader have an internal function where they can tell that each red dot is nully of not. If you gonna use that excuse please just said don't bump into anyone and pay attention to every enemies. Which is not something you'll do when you playing normally (except sorties ofc, but normal mission you'll rush to objective most of the time...).

Also, you can't stop nully from alert at your presence when you're in invasion or sorties... they'll deploy their drone immediately even you're not trigger an alarms... good luck with your excuse...

[XenMaster]

Its anti tenno weapon :v

[vladoMNE]

yeah like 10%/s


60% usage rhino player here (mastery 21)

make rhino live up to his description

Edited December 7, 2018 by vladoMNE

[DatDarkOne]

6 hours ago, NocheLuz said:

Which is not something you'll do when you playing normally (except sorties ofc, but normal mission you'll rush to objective most of the time...).

Then who's fault is that really?  Yours.  Then again if you're rushing that fast with Ivara, then chances are that you aren't in Prowl anyway which running into a nullifier wouldn't matter as it wouldn't have anything to dispel.  Well except for Artemis Bow.  

Me being very good at Ivara just allows me to recognize when someone else is just making up BS to try and justify their case.  

edit:  proof that nullies don't deploy bubble when not alerted. 

https://imgur.com/nUnbMUt

https://imgur.com/XcLh5FS

https://imgur.com/OyDySa6

Edited December 7, 2018 by DatDarkOne
edited to add screenshots

[Rakosta_Kai]

9 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

You specifically may not be a rhino hater, but many commenters in here are.

I mentioned Inaros ult in my original thread, however u said i didn't mention other abilities until yall suggested it. So no, u didn't read it fully.

I don't have to prove that i can or cannot play, im suggesting this as a QoL change. Agree or disagree, i wont be swayed.

↓ Allow me to re-post what you are referring to...I've edited out all those nasty extra words so you get the point fully.

22 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

 

Rhino isn't saddled with stationary ability effects or abilities that take time to build or are immediately/directly tied to actual health (making them a direct damage attack).

Likewise, there are ample tells for those attacks and Rhino is one of the few frames best situated to deal with them given how mobile he is to begin with.

...Except it took me and others bringing up skills like Frost's Bubble, Cataclysm, etc for you to make mention of them.

Just because there are legitimate issues regarding the abilities doesn't necessarily legitimize yours.

So when did Inaros get a truly stationary ability?

Oh? You mean he doesn't really have one aside from Devour? Perhaps he isn't mentioned because he isn't saddled with stationary abilities?

Perhaps you are the one guilty of having skimmed a bit...Hmm?

FWIW, you could just choose to go back up and read my other comments on the matter as they were covered in this thread regarding Nezha (frames with mobile Auras)...which is where Inaros actually fits.

 

Which still has nothing to do with Rhino as he doesn't have one.

 

 

[DatDarkOne]

I find it interesting that there are numerous topics saying we need more challenge in the game, yet this one is about nerfing enemies.  😄

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

7 hours ago, NocheLuz said:

No, you can't... Also,  I know how to bullet-jump while in Prowl. I'm bump into nully because I'm not paying attention? how about I say they just appear out of no where? will you now listen? NO!! you will not because you're so pro at Ivara that make anybody playing her feeling noob because you're so great at her. It's not like her enemy rader have an internal function where they can tell that each red dot is nully of not. If you gonna use that excuse please just said don't bump into anyone and pay attention to every enemies. Which is not something you'll do when you playing normally (except sorties ofc, but normal mission you'll rush to objective most of the time...).

Also, you can't stop nully from alert at your presence when you're in invasion or sorties... they'll deploy their drone immediately even you're not trigger an alarms... good luck with your excuse...

Your right. Nullys will just activate the bubble right next to you.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

I find it interesting that there are numerous topics saying we need more challenge in the game, yet this one is about nerfing enemies.  😄

Not nerfing, balance.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

36 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

↓ Allow me to re-post what you are referring to...I've edited out all those nasty extra words so you get the point fully.

So when did Inaros get a truly stationary ability?

Oh? You mean he doesn't really have one aside from Devour? Perhaps he isn't mentioned because he isn't saddled with stationary abilities?

Perhaps you are the one guilty of having skimmed a bit...Hmm?

FWIW, you could just choose to go back up and read my other comments on the matter as they were covered in this thread regarding Nezha (frames with mobile Auras)...which is where Inaros actually fits.

 

Which still has nothing to do with Rhino as he doesn't have one.

 

 

His ult, is percentage based... U drain health to get the percentage to 100%. Entering a nully bubble or being hit by comba etc will erase it completely. It should instead have % reduced per sec in nully bubble and flat % reduced when hit with the comba, scrambus.

[DatDarkOne]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Your right. Nullys will just activate the bubble right next to you.

Why are you that close to a deactivated nullie without killing it before it raises it's bubble?  Unless you're using a stealth frame and trying to sneak pass, it doesn't quite make sense.  Just saying.  

 

5 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Not nerfing, balance.

yeah, right.

[Rakosta_Kai]

46 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

His ult, is percentage based... U drain health to get the percentage to 100%. Entering a nully bubble or being hit by comba etc will erase it completely. It should instead have % reduced per sec in nully bubble and flat % reduced when hit with the comba, scrambus.

• Scarab Armor can be removed by casting a swarm projectile, entering a Nullifier bubble, moving too close to a Comba or Scrambus, by being dispelled, or falling into a pit. Scarab Armor bonus can not be removed by enemy weapons fire.
• When Scarab Armor is dispelled, all health previously converted into armor is instantly refunded to Inaros, provided his health is not at maximum value.

 

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Inaros#Info

 

Inaros has to actually be hit by the bubble...If it happens what did the player lose? 25 energy?

...The aura doesn't appear to be affected by it at all actually.

 

It's another "Move your feet" scenario...Literally.

 

Simply put, you have every right to your opinion....But your opinion is biased as opposed to objective.

This makes the idea you've put forward,based on that opinion, questionable.

 

With respect to you...You could give your opinion a bit more validity by simply not fencing its' merits with players.

Simply own the fact that it's what you want as opposed to what should be...This may come as a shock to you, but those two things aren't necessarily the same.

[NocheLuz]

9 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Then who's fault is that really?  Yours.  Then again if you're rushing that fast with Ivara, then chances are that you aren't in Prowl anyway which running into a nullifier wouldn't matter as it wouldn't have anything to dispel.  Well except for Artemis Bow.  

Me being very good at Ivara just allows me to recognize when someone else is just making up BS to try and justify their case.  

edit:  proof that nullies don't deploy bubble when not alerted. 

https://imgur.com/nUnbMUt

https://imgur.com/XcLh5FS

https://imgur.com/OyDySa6

lol... Thank you for the Image that still prove my stand. IDK, why you show an image of 'Normal' Mission... as I said... They'll deploy drone even when alarm not trigger in Sorties and Invasion... Did I NOT said that in normal mission they'll deploy drone when you bump into them? (in case you miss this... I mean they normally will not deploy their drone until I bump into them... happy?) Also, since you're playing Ivara as main so much ans so pro at this (

I even try to make you consider noob feeling). You must know how to rush in Prowl, yes? Then it's matter... IDK why you think rushing to objective = didn't use Prowl. Or you just want to make yourself clear, that your proof can help me proof my stand as well (lol).

8 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

I find it interesting that there are numerous topics saying we need more challenge in the game, yet this one is about nerfing enemies.  😄

Nerfing an imbalance is call balance. If 1 boss cannot be win with any weapon and can be win when you do only 2 things. Which is 1. don't fight it and 2. come into their weapon range where your ability cannot be activated and all weapon jam. The boss also have field that damage you while in the range and also all Armor and shield is drained. If someone find a easy way to fight this boss and said they don't needed nerf. They're just challenging. Will you still say that to new player face? I think you'll said yes... since you're so pro at it and not even consider those whp don't.

[DatDarkOne]

2 hours ago, NocheLuz said:

I think you'll said yes... since you're so pro at it and not even consider those whp don't.

I would say that to a new player.  Why, because 40+ years of gaming has taught me to learn for myself and adapt.  What may seem unfair at first, often is because the player isn't using all the tools at their disposal or even as simple as not paying attention to their surroundings.  

I mean seriously think about this for a moment.  What generally happens in almost every game you can think of when a player blindly rushes in without any form of tactics?  It usually doesn't go very well for them.  

I have no problems whatso ever with Nullifiers as Ivara or any other frame I play.  Same for Comba/Scramba.  This is in both solo and group play.  So, if I can do it just using simple common sense, then you and others should be able to also.  Well unless there is some physical handicap preventing it.  

You keep trying to call me a Pro gamer like it's an insult to me.  I might be pro even though I don't consider myself as such.  I'm just a player with a long history of using common sense, tactical thinking, and good hand reflexes.

Try it out for yourself and you might be surprised at the result.  

Also, they don't deploy bubbles in sorties or special alerts unless they are alerted.  Each of those cases do not automatically result in the enemies always being alerted when you do them.  Notice that I said NOT ALERTED. 

As for you mentioning alerting them after bumping into them, how in the hell are you bumping into them?  I can understand doing it a few times (like 3 at the most) first starting out as Ivara.  This just leads me back to my counter of not paying attention to your surroundings.  

 

[(XBOX)SupremeMorph]

The only reason rumblers/shadows don't instantly dissipate is because they're AI driven, and having your ability essentially go to waste because the game decided to run your minions inside the bubble is incredibly frustrating to say the least.

Nidus' stacks take so long to build up that if they instantly dissipated you'd be even more frustrated. Imagine going from 100 stacks to instantly dead because a nullifier came up behind you and brushed his shield against your leg. That'd make anyone quite angry, I'd say.

Iron skin's an active ability (as in, one you actively cast and spend energy on) applied directly to the Warframe. Seeing as there's no AI driving it, it should absolutely be instantly dissipated imo. It's not like you can't just recast it the instant you tear out that nullifier's innards, anyway

[(XBOX)SupremeMorph]

10 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

Simply put, you have every right to your opinion....But your opinion is biased as opposed to objective. 

While I don't disagree with you, isn't everyone's opinion subjective, to a point? Even mine or yours?

[NocheLuz]

8 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

You keep trying to call me a Pro gamer like it's an insult to me.  I might be pro even though I don't consider myself as such.  I'm just a player with a long history of using common sense, tactical thinking, and good hand reflexes.

Try it out for yourself and you might be surprised at the result.  

Also, they don't deploy bubbles in sorties or special alerts unless they are alerted.  Each of those cases do not automatically result in the enemies always being alerted when you do them.  Notice that I said NOT ALERTED. 

As for you mentioning alerting them after bumping into them, how in the hell are you bumping into them?  I can understand doing it a few times (like 3 at the most) first starting out as Ivara.  This just leads me back to my counter of not paying attention to your surroundings. 

I keep saying your pro because you are... Aren't you trying to giving me advise right now? Also, I didn't said Pro to insult anyone but I only meant to insult who don't really think about how they came to be. Just because you're good at something doesn't automatically make everyone instently good at it too. Just saying...

But I do agreed that they needed to improve. both player and balancing enemies. When enemies got nerf, the pro will always said NO!! don't do that. While casual player like myself would either agree or disagree (some agree and some disagree). New player would confuse as they aren't really into something like that often...

The enemies in sorties will be on HIGH ALERT when you deploy. Which mean they'll ready their weapon and fire upon you the moment they see you (Normally they'll shout and take sometime to ready their weapon). Nully will also do the same. But in nully case they'll deploy drone instantly before taking it down for recharge (notice I said sometime it's faster to just wait for it to pop in the previous reply). It'll take sometime before it's deploy again and IF (and A big IF at that) you're NOT alerted any enemies along the way. They will drop their guard and will take a very long time before they deploy their drone on their own again... Also, some sorties mission will begin the mission with enemies not on alert at all (like Assault). Those enemies in those mission type can activate alarms and lock-down normally.

Also, the bumppy thing on nully doesn't happen much (like about 1 in 10 mission I run with Ivara). But when that happen will usaully result in death... You may said isn't your Ivara mod Properly?... yes, she is not mod properly... her Health and shield have only the base line (which is about 225 Health and 300 shield? I can't remember). Also, paying attention may backing up your statement if it's not a very tight corridor or only single way out and nully walk into the door the moment you roll... RIP (lol)...

[DatDarkOne]

@NocheLuz  Fair enough.  Thank you for expanding on that.  

[(XBOX)SupremeMorph]

6 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

I keep saying your pro because you are... Aren't you trying to giving me advise right now?

With respect, giving advice doesn't make someone a pro gamer, it just means they want to share their knowledge with you on the subject. I've given advice before on games and subjects where I'm absolutely not a pro, it's just what's worked for me.

I should clarify that I've not been keeping track of other parts of this discussion, so if this directly relates to something I've missed, then please excuse my blindness on the subject

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2018-11-28 at 8:58 AM, Firetempest said:

Or shoot the satellite.

Or just stay the hell away from them. Honestly.

[NocheLuz]

2 hours ago, (XB1)SupremeMorpheus said:

With respect, giving advice doesn't make someone a pro gamer, it just means they want to share their knowledge with you on the subject. I've given advice before on games and subjects where I'm absolutely not a pro, it's just what's worked for me.

I should clarify that I've not been keeping track of other parts of this discussion, so if this directly relates to something I've missed, then please excuse my blindness on the subject

Well, it's depend on person. If you can play the mission with high efficiently either so fast or got a lot of reward with in a short time. They're already pro at it. As you know how to do things and gave someone advise or share a knowledge. For me, it's a pro tip. You may think you're not a pro either because you're don't really into it so much or just plain think you only know of one trick. As long as the trick work, you're already a pro at those.

But don't worries. It's just my definition of pro. As I'm a casual player, I don't really have a tip or trick to tell someone. But I do know how to do some mission efficiently, the new player would tell me that I'm pro at those mission (since my trick work everytime they run the mission). I myself didn't think I'm pro either, but for new player/noob/who did not know the trick. They would think we're atleast pro at those fraction of the game.

[DatDarkOne]

@(XB1)SupremeMorpheus I think that he is using the word Pro in the place of the word Experience.  I figured it out after his last reply to me.