Iron skin vs Nullys

[vladoMNE]

5 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Or just stay the hell away from them. Honestly.

what am i supposed to do when i use things like arca plasmor???

[DatDarkOne]

5 minutes ago, vladoMNE said:

what am i supposed to do when i use things like arca plasmor???

Blast the hell out of the nullie with it.  I do. Takes maybe 2 or 3 quick shots if i'm unlucky and only 1 if the sat is facing my direction. 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

5 hours ago, (XB1)SupremeMorpheus said:

The only reason rumblers/shadows don't instantly dissipate is because they're AI driven, and having your ability essentially go to waste because the game decided to run your minions inside the bubble is incredibly frustrating to say the least.

Nidus' stacks take so long to build up that if they instantly dissipated you'd be even more frustrated. Imagine going from 100 stacks to instantly dead because a nullifier came up behind you and brushed his shield against your leg. That'd make anyone quite angry, I'd say.

Iron skin's an active ability (as in, one you actively cast and spend energy on) applied directly to the Warframe. Seeing as there's no AI driving it, it should absolutely be instantly dissipated imo. It's not like you can't just recast it the instant you tear out that nullifier's innards, anyway

Stacks build up very quickly with insatiable. 30 - 40 stacks in a 30s ability, so that argument is dead.

Also, iron skin absorbs damage for 3s... If u absorb enough to gain 100k health. The nully wipes it... That 100k doesn't come back just by activating iron skin again... That argument is also dead.

Khora dome doesn't instantly destroy. Only the parts the nully touches... No ai there. Argument... Dead.

Get new material.

Edited December 8, 2018 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[NocheLuz]

2 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Blast the hell out of the nullie with it.  I do. Takes maybe 2 or 3 quick shots if i'm unlucky and only 1 if the sat is facing my direction. 

Maybe my 'Experience' and your 'Experience' with nully is a bit far off each other. Because in my case I don't really use Arca Plasmor much outside of Void mission. So I think our Corrupt nully may have a little bit of an upgrade outside of normal Corpus one. Since their bubble seem to get about 4-5 good hit from Arca Plasmor before comming down (Arca Plasmor seem to do very little when come to nully's bubble, clearly not 2 or 3 shot even with multishot mod), or 1 perfect hit on the Drone (if you lucky, not that you have time for aiming).

[(PSN)Herrwann69]

Il y a 2 heures, (PS4)big_eviljak a dit :

Khora dome doesn't instantly destroy. Only the parts the nully touches... No ai there. Argument... Dead.

Khora 4 is time limited, it's not like Frost Dome or Rhino iron skin that have HUGE hp pool. Khora dome will fade away 40 seconds after cast, nullifiers or not. So give it some room to be use against Corpus.

Edited December 8, 2018 by (PS4)Herrwann69

[(XBOX)SupremeMorph]

5 hours ago, NocheLuz said:

Well, it's depend on person. If you can play the mission with high efficiently either so fast or got a lot of reward with in a short time. They're already pro at it. As you know how to do things and gave someone advise or share a knowledge. For me, it's a pro tip. You may think you're not a pro either because you're don't really into it so much or just plain think you only know of one trick. As long as the trick work, you're already a pro at those.

But don't worries. It's just my definition of pro. As I'm a casual player, I don't really have a tip or trick to tell someone. But I do know how to do some mission efficiently, the new player would tell me that I'm pro at those mission (since my trick work everytime they run the mission). I myself didn't think I'm pro either, but for new player/noob/who did not know the trick. They would think we're atleast pro at those fraction of the game.

Fair points all round. Personally, my definition of pro differs, as I consider a pro gamer to be just a shortening of professional gamer

[(XBOX)SupremeMorph]

2 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Stacks build up very quickly with insatiable. 30 - 40 stacks in a 30s ability, so that argument is dead.

Also, iron skin absorbs damage for 3s... If u absorb enough to gain 100k health. The nully wipes it... That 100k doesn't come back just by activating iron skin again... That argument is also dead.

Khora dome doesn't instantly destroy. Only the parts the nully touches... No ai there. Argument... Dead.

Get new material.

Stacks take time to build, and insatiable's not a standard part of the kit. An augment is not necessary for the gaining of stacks, it just augments it

Iron skin will regain that health if you get shot again. Doesn't take a genius to figure that one out, the circumstances of casting determine the strength of abilities such as iron skin, warding halo and snow globe

Nidus' ravenous garden doesn't dissipate either until all 3 towers are hit by nullifiers either. You're still losing the bit that's hit by the nullifier

If you're going to try and defeat my points, at least use arguments that aren't paper thin, please?

[DrakoKnight48]

On 2018-11-28 at 12:35 PM, aswitz87 said:

Compare how long it takes your stacks to build compared to iron skin.  At least in this case it’s balanced.

Okay Nidus. Its very easy to build up your iron skin if you're using the Build Brozime made. In just two button presses, your iron skin has millions of HP meanwhile on Nidus' side; depending on the mission type, you won't get past 4 stacks. Why? Cause he's a warframe built for long endurance runs, made worst by the fact team mates kill whatever enemy is caught in your larva before he has a chance to stomp to build up his stacks. Seriously, do you even play Nidus bro? 

[Rakosta_Kai]

9 hours ago, (XB1)SupremeMorpheus said:

While I don't disagree with you, isn't everyone's opinion subjective, to a point? Even mine or yours?

Sure as they are individual viewpoints.

We all form opinions based on what we know and arrive at corresponding conclusions accordingly.

Objective opinions are formed from facts without allowing prejudices to interfere with the conclusion.

Biased opinions are formed without real objectivity and with a prejudice instead. —In other words, "what we know/can prove" got replaced with a prejudice of some kind (typically either "what we think", "how we feel", or "what we want").

Everyone does all of them...I just try really hard not to project my prejudices on others typically as I think it's selfish and entitled and would prefer others did the same.

The irony in that, of course, is that it's evidence of a bias on my part.

Go figure.

 

 

[NocheLuz]

35 minutes ago, DrakoKnight48 said:

Okay Nidus. Its very easy to build up your iron skin if you're using the Build Brozime made. In just two button presses, your iron skin has millions of HP meanwhile on Nidus' side; depending on the mission type, you won't get past 4 stacks. Why? Cause he's a warframe built for long endurance runs, made worst by the fact team mates kill whatever enemy is caught in your larva before he has a chance to stomp to build up his stacks. Seriously, do you even play Nidus bro? 

I'm a little bit confuse. So, if Ironclod charge hit only 1 enemies (equal to 1 stack on Nidus), it would still make him millions of HP? Or did I missing something here. AFAIK, it should not been any difference from how Nidus build-up stack and a buff from Ironclod charge. The build which Brozime made also depend on Arcane, buff and numerous factors to get about a millions HP on Iron skin. As so, I would still suggest make a 'Balance' on nully. Since both Nidus and Rhino has encounter the same problem.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

3 hours ago, (XB1)SupremeMorpheus said:

Stacks take time to build, and insatiable's not a standard part of the kit. An augment is not necessary for the gaining of stacks, it just augments it

Iron skin will regain that health if you get shot again. Doesn't take a genius to figure that one out, the circumstances of casting determine the strength of abilities such as iron skin, warding halo and snow globe

Nidus' ravenous garden doesn't dissipate either until all 3 towers are hit by nullifiers either. You're still losing the bit that's hit by the nullifier

If you're going to try and defeat my points, at least use arguments that aren't paper thin, please?

So ur strengthening my clsim by pointing out that nidus powers are given an edge over other frames. Oberon hallowed us instantly destroyed by nully in touch. Cataclysm too. Frost bubble too. Iron skin too... But nidus garden doesn't instantly. I'm asking for balance. all these other frames need to get the nidus treatment.

[DatDarkOne]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

So ur strengthening my clsim by pointing out that nidus powers are given an edge over other frames. Oberon hallowed us instantly destroyed by nully in touch. Cataclysm too. Frost bubble too. Iron skin too... But nidus garden doesn't instantly. I'm asking for balance. all these other frames need to get the nidus treatment.

There's one fine detail about.  All the frames you mentioned can cast their abilities at the start of the mission.  Nidus can't.  

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 hour ago, DrakoKnight48 said:

Okay Nidus. Its very easy to build up your iron skin if you're using the Build Brozime made. In just two button presses, your iron skin has millions of HP meanwhile on Nidus' side; depending on the mission type, you won't get past 4 stacks. Why? Cause he's a warframe built for long endurance runs, made worst by the fact team mates kill whatever enemy is caught in your larva before he has a chance to stomp to build up his stacks. Seriously, do you even play Nidus bro? 

The only way rhino can do that is with the augment. Which is funny, because with nidus augment he can build 40 stacks with just two button presses... 

Which means rhino and other frames do indeed need to get the same interaction with nullys that nidus has. Balance.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

3 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

There's one fine detail about.  All the frames you mentioned can cast their abilities at the start of the mission.  Nidus can't.  

All the other frames need energy to cast, effected by efficiency. Nidus doesn't. If rhino is out of energy running a blind rage on his build... Hes outta there if his iron skin is nullified.

Nidus stacks are only drained not nullified. His 4 is only nullified if the whole thing is covered. So he just uses a mere 3 stacks to reactivate if he cant keep the nullifer from covering the whole thing... And boom, problem solved.

Every frame in the game, should interact with nullifiers like nidus does. My intention fyi is not for a nidus nerf... I want all the frames to get the nidus treatment when interacting with nullifiers period.

[DatDarkOne]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Every frame in the game, should interact with nullifiers like nidus does. My intention fyi is not for a nidus nerf... I want all the frames to get the nidus treatment when interacting with nullifiers period.

Ok.  Then just how do you propose that gets implemented with frames like, Loki, Ash, Ivara, Nova, Nyx, Saryn, Mirage, Excalibur, Volt, WuKong, Valkyr, Banshee, Mag, Titania, Equinox, Zephyr, and Mesa just to name a few?  Especially when being nullified doesn't effect these frames in the same way it does Nidus.  Meaning those frames have a good chance of dying as soon as or very shortly after being nullified. 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

45 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Ok.  Then just how do you propose that gets implemented with frames like, Loki, Ash, Ivara, Nova, Nyx, Saryn, Mirage, Excalibur, Volt, WuKong, Valkyr, Banshee, Mag, Titania, Equinox, Zephyr, and Mesa just to name a few?  Especially when being nullified doesn't effect these frames in the same way it does Nidus.  Meaning those frames have a good chance of dying as soon as or very shortly after being nullified. 

Almost every frame has an ability that could interact similarly to nidus. Not all of them though. Like ash for example, doesn't have anything i cansee that needs to interact with Nullys different.

Loki has his decoy, the duration that effects it could decrease rapidly.

Nova null star projectiles could dissipate quickly instead of instant null.

Nyx chaos should honestly be unaffected by nullies. (Maybe unbalanced?)

Saryns husk health could reduce rapidly.

As an example..

 

 

Edited December 8, 2018 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[Rakosta_Kai]

2 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Almost every frame has an ability that could interact similarly to nidus. Not all of them though. Like ash for example, doesn't have anything i cansee that needs to interact with Nullys different.

Loki has his decoy, the duration that effects it could decrease rapidly.

Nova null star projectiles could dissipate quickly instead of instant null.

Nyx chaos should honestly be unaffected by nullies. (Maybe unbalanced?)

Saryns husk health could reduce rapidly.

As an example..

So, basically, you just want Nullifiers, Combas, and Scrambus further neutered?

Good to know...

Given that their design's intent is to shut powers off, I really don't see DE doing that.

[ChadAgWing]

Hmm, I've skimmed through the comments and I find this quite interesting. Should your idea be implemented, I think that Iron Skin should deplete at a rate of 20-25% (of the total after damage absorption period  per second while within a nullifier's bubble.

For example (assuming 20%), you are able to accumulate 100K after the absorption period and you're down to 34K after taking some hits to the Iron Skin HP Pool. You enter a nullifier bubble which will drain 20K from the 34K you have left which leaves you with only 14K in the pool. If you had less than 20K from your original 100K when you enter a bubble, it would instantly dispel as it is right now. A corrupted nullifier should have an increased effect around 33%. I think that's fairly balanced.

Once caveat would be for Comba and Scrambuses which should still continue to instantly dispel Iron Skin. Why? Because unlike nullifiers, they can be shot at directly without having to go through a bubble shield. That's my two cents with regards to this.

[(XBOX)SupremeMorph]

4 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

So ur strengthening my clsim by pointing out that nidus powers are given an edge over other frames. Oberon hallowed us instantly destroyed by nully in touch. Cataclysm too. Frost bubble too. Iron skin too... But nidus garden doesn't instantly. I'm asking for balance. all these other frames need to get the nidus treatment.

Well, no, that's not really what I'm doing at all. Nidus' only power that is resistant (not immune, resistant) to nullifiers is one that takes 3 stacks to get. Not exactly hard in a crouded scenario, but also not the easiest when enemies are scarce due to low spawn rates or trigger-happy teammates. It's also an ability that doesn't use energy to cast, which could screw with the nullifiers capability to jam it. And before you call out parasitic link, that's directly attached to warframes. You lose that by a nullifier, it's your own fault

Nullifiers are already almost entirely useless. They're basically just over-glorified sniper crewman. Personally I think they need a buff. Maybe they should drop a tower that releases occasional pulses in a massive radius, disabling all abilities within?

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 hour ago, (XB1)SupremeMorpheus said:

Well, no, that's not really what I'm doing at all. Nidus' only power that is resistant (not immune, resistant) to nullifiers is one that takes 3 stacks to get. Not exactly hard in a crouded scenario, but also not the easiest when enemies are scarce due to low spawn rates or trigger-happy teammates. It's also an ability that doesn't use energy to cast, which could screw with the nullifiers capability to jam it. And before you call out parasitic link, that's directly attached to warframes. You lose that by a nullifier, it's your own fault

Nullifiers are already almost entirely useless. They're basically just over-glorified sniper crewman. Personally I think they need a buff. Maybe they should drop a tower that releases occasional pulses in a massive radius, disabling all abilities within?

Every frame is powered through the tenno through void energy. Nidus is no different. His stacks, his abilities that utilize these stacks... Are still void energy based.

No reason why he gets a pass over other warframes in terms of nullification. Whats good for the goose, is good for the gander.

[(PSN)Herrwann69]

Il y a 8 heures, (PS4)big_eviljak a dit :

All the other frames need energy to cast, effected by efficiency. Nidus doesn't. If rhino is out of energy running a blind rage on his build... Hes outta there if his iron skin is nullified.

Nidus stacks are only drained not nullified. His 4 is only nullified if the whole thing is covered. So he just uses a mere 3 stacks to reactivate if he cant keep the nullifer from covering the whole thing... And boom, problem solved.

Every frame in the game, should interact with nullifiers like nidus does. My intention fyi is not for a nidus nerf... I want all the frames to get the nidus treatment when interacting with nullifiers period.

Don't you see a difference between skills that need stack or have a timer or aren't immediatly recastable and the 1 button immediat effect iron skin ?

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Herrwann69 said:

Don't you see a difference between skills that need stack or have a timer or aren't immediatly recastable and the 1 button immediat effect iron skin ?

Im more interested in the ability interaction with nullifiers.

[Eisdschungel]

Nidus needs his Stacks to Pay for abilities.  So i wont take any balance suggestion serious unless it includes an significant energy drain inside the Bubble for all Frames, lets say 30+ per second

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2018-12-08 at 12:39 AM, vladoMNE said:

what am i supposed to do when i use things like arca plasmor???

Either shoot it enough times with arcade for it to break, or if you're impatient switch to a high rate of fire (or continuous beam) secondary weapon.

I play a lot of rhino and understand that it can be annoying sometimes but do you (or anyone else) remember how much fun it was having magnetic procs hit you through a wall and turn off your iron skin AND drain your energy? Good times.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

15 hours ago, Eisdschungel said:

Nidus needs his Stacks to Pay for abilities.  So i wont take any balance suggestion serious unless it includes an significant energy drain inside the Bubble for all Frames, lets say 30+ per second

Energy drain instead of nullification? So that means his energy gets drained as well as his stacks? 

Edited December 9, 2018 by (PS4)big_eviljak