[DE]Rebecca

Nyx & Titania Dev Workshop

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2 minutes ago, taiiat said:

i've been wanting Abilities with depth since forever ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

an Ability that has a short list of things it can do vs "you play this Warframe by pressing the four buttons in this one order", isn't crazy talk. an Ability would still do something when you just use it anytime, and may be affected by whether Allies or Enemies are around.
and then the other Abilities should have some use together, all of them mind you - each Ability should do something useful in conjunction to another of the Abilities. that doesn't have to be some unique mechanic, things that naturally benefit each other indirectly is great too. (like using Pull to move Enemies into Magnetize for example, very simple but a great pairing) just should all spiderweb with each other in some way ideally.
then you get into the really cool stuff - the unique mechanics. a few shovel loads of them would do it, for me.

yes, i absolutely want my Warframes to do cool things and keep me totally active throughout my Gameplay.
i don't want to Cast Spores with Toxic Lash active and poke that Enemy and t hen go AFK but Casting Miasma once in a while to force spreading and Kill faster.... i want to Cast Spores and apply it at a Support level to the Enemies in the area, and then use the scaling power awarded to it by my Melee Weapon through Toxic Lash to create Spore Bursts for localized areas of very high Damage to turn the Support Ability into a Damage Ability. and even then i'll take more. (the idlegaming nature of current Saryn vs the deep mechanics that Saryn 2015 offered)

and that... isn't crazy. because Abilities can still follow "simple to use, but providing great depth" and achieve that. each piece is simple to use, but there are numerous pieces to the puzzle. nobody looks at a like... 100 piece puzzle and says its impossible to know what to do, eh? the pieces fit together in a simple way, but there's still numerous of them.

 

but that's getting a bit long so i digress.

okay so you enjoy comboing your abilities together and finding depth in your warframe's kit.

I don't see anything about how that's an actual refute of my statement of a single ability, on its own, being singularly capable of more things than most warframes' entire kits are capable of, falls out of scope.

Ultimately, everyone keeps saying "IT'S THE SAME THING" but Spellbind is a much more consistent, reliable, and quick CC while Lantern is less reliable in emergencies but better for planned attack.

I get that a lot of people want Titania's kit to be more varied and have more synergy to add depth to it, and that's why you should push for Pablo to take a look at her.  But honestly, I'd much rather her 1 and 3 not be merged because they actually feel strategic to use.  If I want to just halt a bunch of close-knit enemies right now, I've got Spellbind.  If enemies are too spread out and I want them to group up under my zenistar, I'll use my range-boosted Lantern.  

And again, merging them into a 'press for Spellbind, hold for Lantern' setup would create a single ability with more options and utility than most warframes get in their entire kit. 

 If you disagree, don't try to rebut me by talking about how you can use X skill and Y skill in tandem to do cool stuff because that's just proving my point about synergy being better than a single ability having the full utility of an entire warframe kit.

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I feel Like Titania Energy Cost Should Be Reduced While in Razorwing Mode, also her armor to be slightly increased while outside of razorwing. her build is a bit restricting. Considering that her Razorwing augment works on casting multiple times (up to 4 stacks) if im not running pretty much max efficiency ill lose energy rather quick in razorwing mode. and i feel like her kit is based around being in razorwing as the badass version of tinkerbell. ( i hve no issue with the energy drain tho, but that may be because i run high efficiency aswell probably)

so i think she should have maybe at 20% energy reduction(not affected by any stats, and ONLY in razorwing mode)  on skills she casts It seems like a fair but not totally abusable amount. and it allows me to be more lenient on my builds. anyone else feel me on this ? haha

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I am a bit underwhelmed by what they showed in the Devstream.

Titania More Energy and better theatered enemies are nice, but i hope they will listen to the communities concerns, especially for Tribute.

vor einer Stunde schrieb Makunogo:

so i think she should have maybe at 20% energy reduction(not affected by any stats, and ONLY in razorwing mode)  on skills she casts It seems like a fair but not totally abusable amount. and it allows me to be more lenient on my builds. anyone else feel me on this ? haha

I would wait if the increase in Energy can solve this problem, as you build for high efficiency a much bigger Energy pool should counter her problem.

Nyx : Its a bit sad that Psychic Bolts lost their damage completly. Also Absorb only getting a change in damage type and the fact that the developers run it only with the augment will not make the skill viable at all. Also her visual effects need an overhaul as it is really hard to see which enemies are effected by her 2nd Ability when they are also effected by her 3rd Ability.

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В 28.11.2018 в 20:24, Voltage сказал:

Titania wouldn't receive 3 new abilities

Why not? Without big changes this "refresh" will be just useless waste of working hours (as it was with mirage and zephyr). We should insist and hope for something significant that can make this warframes effective and bring them as close as possible to meta.

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54 minutes ago, revanatar said:

Why not? Without big changes this "refresh" will be just useless waste of working hours (as it was with mirage and zephyr). We should insist and hope for something significant that can make this warframes effective and bring them as close as possible to meta.

We do need massive changes to Tribute and Diwata, but what I've seen on the dev stream tells me Titania is already on the right path to really being a contender.  No lanterns going to the stratosphere (though keeping them in one place still needs to be an option, DE) means that the physics engine won't completely rob her of damage from them, enabling her to get far more use out of them and making her even more of a CC monster.  Top that off with her Dex Pixia being obscenely powerful and finding out she's getting a 225 base energy pool from the dev stream, I think I'm gonna enjoy the kit.

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Still De continues in it's old ways... we ask for a more in-dept review of a frame and they stop only to give a spit and polish at the most glaring problems.

 

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After having seen a bit of Nyx in action in the devstream yesterday, I wanted to suggest something for Nyx reworked Mind Control:

Would it be possible to add a functionality to that power to actually focus your controlled unit on an enemy?

Because I love the idea of sicking an enemy on their buddies, but in my experience, the AI target priority doesn't always match the player's target priority.
Maybe make it work in such a way that recasting Mind Control on a different target doesn't swap target, but instead places a marker on that enemy for the current controlled enemy to engage that specific target.

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Great to get some love for Nyx and Titania ❤️

Like many people though I personally would love to see more radical changes to Titania. I am aware that you are a small team and have lots on your agenda, but I feel like she is worth it.

One of the cores of my suggestions is that Titania like Equinox has two modes, so why not make her other abilities differ between normal and razorwing mode? That way for example her current 1 and 3 could be folded into 1, one applying if she is in razorwing, the other if she is not. In general I would suggest to tune her abilities in razorwing more to the egoistic/aggresive side and out of razorwing more to the supportive side.

As part of this, make razorwing no longer a channeled ability, you pay a fixed cost to enter and none to leave. To offset this change, razorwing no longer spawns butterflies automatically and recharging shots on your dex pixia costs energy (or they only recharge really slowly with the option to reload immediately at an energy cost). Her 2 in razorwing mode shreds an enemies soul into bits that act as her helpers (aka summons/recharges the butterflies). While they are active, the enemy is comatose and unable to act. Should he survive and all butterflies get killed, he recovers. Her 3 should give her some kind of survivability buff. It's getting a bit hard to come up with something unique here, maybe it switches the butterfiles from aggressive into a defensive mode of some sort.
To facilitate a mostly-razorwing playstyle and give more use to the Diwata, have it give her energy in some way or form. Maybe slicing enemies drains their life force and converts it into energy for her to use. And(Or have her Dex Pixia reload faster while the Diwata is out.

Consideration should be taken to keep her viability as a DPS in boss fights.

People have posted plenty of ideas that sound viable for her abilities in "normal" mode, as I already said, in my opinion for the type of change I suggest they should be focused more towards the team/supportive side.

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1 hour ago, Xpo.vos said:

After having seen a bit of Nyx in action in the devstream yesterday, I wanted to suggest something for Nyx reworked Mind Control:

Would it be possible to add a functionality to that power to actually focus your controlled unit on an enemy?

Because I love the idea of sicking an enemy on their buddies, but in my experience, the AI target priority doesn't always match the player's target priority.
Maybe make it work in such a way that recasting Mind Control on a different target doesn't swap target, but instead places a marker on that enemy for the current controlled enemy to engage that specific target.

I think that the mind-controlled target should also get a higher priority, because in the devstream the enemies were still shooting at Nyx even though the minion was by their side.

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Honestly, the Nyx rework looks great, and so does most of Titania's rework except for Lantern. The casting animation still looks too long for a frame advertised as an agile trickster. Also from the Dev Stream, Lantern did look a lot less bouncy, but if you are trying to CC a specific area it still looks ineffective. I'm worried about Razorwing as well as teammates with Arca Plasmor, Ignis, & Catchmoons bouncing them out of the intended area while clearing out crowds of enemies attracted to Lantern. I would have preferred a stationary animation similar to Trinity's Well of Life with a butterfly theme similar to Titania's Dust buff. I do love multiple enemies can be turned into lanterns, but it still looks like the most clunky part of her kit. 

A more radical rework suggestion for Razorwing would be to make the butterflies exalted weapons upgradable with sentinel /robotic mods. I think this would help with their performance at higher levels. Also an innate life steal and/or serious DPS buff for Diwata.

Edited by Dark_Divinity88
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15 hours ago, NyxSilence said:

Calm down Jim. Put the gun down.

 

To be serious this is a buff across-the-board having all the buffs instead of arbitrary ones is a pretty sweet deal. To be more realistic a lot of people only used Titania for the razor Wing in the first place just like a lot of other warframes are only use for one if not two abilities at all. Most of these Warframe is consist of valkyr, Nova, and inaros. Really the only Warframe I can think of that has multiple uses that you still have to drastically change builds for is Equinox being either sleep or bleed and bonus damage which would be part of bleed or burst heal and that's about it. So far Titania I think this is at least a step in the right direction.

 

(Edit) To be more clear: WHAT WOULD YOU RATHER SEE INSTEAD DONE TO YOUR FAVORITE FRAME? 

Read my prior posts, bub. Already said my prayers to a soundroom. Funnily enough, I wanted Titania to be able to do MORE than just Razorwing. And no, Tribute's buffs are garbage. Entangle has a fixed 10 meter radius, Thorns is just... c'mon? Unairu's passive as a buff? And that's only half the joke that Full Moon is. Companions have garbage TTK, their AI is stupidly unreliable, and Full Moon is going to focus exclusively on buffing this gawdawful source of damage?

Oh, and Dust. Made inapplicable by enemy accuracy scaling. So much for a defensive capability. Nothing Tribute offers is worth peanuts; all of it is useless.

And if you think that every single Warframe has a single build application, think again. Ever heard of Dust Devil Inaros? Paralysis Valkyr? Tank Nova? I could go on and on about how build diversity opens up more versatile applications, permitting for greater player choice regardless of mission type, but answer me this: would I be wasting my time trying to impress this upon you? Because I've already done enough of that in this DEVworkshop.

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Okie Dokie:

Nyx as of dev stream 120 looks amazing. Can't wait.

Titania got far less screen time, but the increased energy pool is going to be rather nice.

Any chance at aviator working? Because as of right now I can have titania literally at the upper limit of the skybox for PoE or Orb Vallis and 'nope you're still counted as not in the iar.' If it's because of fears of it being overpowered? Titania already has a very tight build setup because building for efficiency on her 4 and so you can cast while in her 4 so you get razorwing blitz going. Aviator would help alleviate the fact she dies to a stiff breeze.

Also, why is her passive parkour focused when titania 'wants' to be in her 4 thus not parkouring? Can we get something else as a passive?

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I personally find it very important that they add that you can get out of the transfer while razorwing is active. this guarantees better playability as well as more survival for titania, I think it is something that should be added.

Do you know anything about this?

Edited by Phernok

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Are we still going to be able to insta-kill ourselves with Titania's melee in razorwing form? Seems to be a pretty huge problem that I didn't see addressed in the rework.

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As a long-time Nyx main, I'm very grateful for the proposed changes. Love the ideas for the new passive and for Mind Control. Psychic Bolts debuff sounds great too, and if affected by mods, might actually give some motivation to build for a little power strength instead of dumping it entirely in favor of range as is currently optimal.

@[DE]Rebecca One question though: Is the slow and ancient-aura-removal effect going to be restricted to infested per se, or to any target without shields or armor? My only concern is that, on long runs against Corrupted or Grineer, it is very reasonable (though not necessary) for teams to opt for 4x CP and complete armor removal. I'm afraid the ability would not have any effect in that situation. Additionally, Chaos already cancels Ancient auras, so there's a bit of an overlap there. Instead of aura cancellation, perhaps use another debuff such as increased vulnerability to damage from targets under the effect of Chaos and Mind Control?

I like the proposed change to Absorb and personally do not mind it being implemented as is. However, I feel it does not go far enough in terms making builds without Assimilate attractive enough. Beefing up the CC aspect of the base ability (but not Assimilate) or giving it another debuff such as "enemies hit by shockwave have decreased accuracy for x seconds" would make it scale better and might motivate players to make viable non-Assimilate builds. Depending on how well Nyx's proposed Mind Control and Psychic Bolts scale with ability strength, I can totally see myself using a debuff/CC build where I drop Assimilate for a strength mod instead of using the standard CC/tank build all the time.

Thank you again for revisiting Nyx. I look forward to more updates on these changes.

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Suggestion:

After using Mind Control on an enemy, pressing 1 again sends the enemy to the location at your reticle, while holding 1 ends the effect of Mind Control prematurely.

After using Chaos, holding 3 will cause all enemies affected by Chaos to attack the mind controlled enemy, if there is one. The mind controlled enemy can be damaged by enemies affected by Chaos. Pressing 3 will refresh Chaos as usual.

 

This will give Nyx more control over enemies, which is very fitting for a mind control warframe, as well as help the mind controlled enemy to hit other enemies.

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3 hours ago, Simplefolk said:

Are we still going to be able to insta-kill ourselves with Titania's melee in razorwing form? Seems to be a pretty huge problem that I didn't see addressed in the rework.

HOW DO PEOPLE SERIOUSLY NOT KNOW THEY FIXED THIS, I HAVE TAKEN EVERY OPPORTUNITY I POSSIBLY CAN TO RAM INTO WALLS AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT AND HAVE NOT DIED.  IT HAS BEEN REPEATED A DOZEN BLOODY TIMES IN THIS THREAD BY A DOZEN BLOODY PEOPLE.

THIS.

HAS.

BEEN.

FIXED.

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As a long-time Titania main, I find that her energy usage / balance is about right, to be honest. I really am looking forward to a much more useful Tribute and Lantern.

 

But mostly the vacuum - if that was the one fix they made, I'd be happy 😄

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Tbh I’m disappointed in what I saw of nyx and titania on the devstream. Yes, we saw the changes in action with nyx however they didn’t show any new changes that the players asked for e.g. make her be able to move in her 4th ability without mod.

With titania, she didn`t get a lot of screen time because they were too busy joking and fooling around wasting time. The only change she got that people asked for is for her to get more energy other than that that’s it.

When I saw the “How to Provide Good Constructive Feedback” message. I’m thinking what’s the point if your going to listen to 10% of peoples feedback. I don`t do this but I understand why peoples cuss DE out because they are making it hard for people (and me) to support them 100% and no matter how logical you are, they still don`t listen e.g. Vauban`s re-visit and it’s a damn shame.

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757
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Le 08/12/2018 à 17:55, (XB1)Vile Slanders a dit :

Oh, and Dust. Made inapplicable by enemy accuracy scaling. So much for a defensive capability. Nothing Tribute offers is worth peanuts; all of it is useless.

Out of curiosity,what are your sources about enemy accuracy scaling ? I knew that health/Shield/armor, damage and affinity are scaling but i thought accuracy was only about motion, range and the type of weapon they're using. So what about scaling accuracy ?

And people are really agressive on such a thread, especially since this frames get so many improvements. Don't forget that Tribute is also an attack power (physics, damages and debuff) that can helps by its own, some of its buffs are also shared among the entire team if they're close enough, so this kind of things must be taken into account before such a powerful toon as titania becomes broken. You can't get overpowered buffs if she's already buffing the entire team, let's get real.

Her 4 along with exalted weapons already make her a real powerhouse. All frames can't have godlike powers only, people are complaining all day long about anything these days, it's only a game - come back to Earth Tennos. The only thing she's currently lacking of is a way to refresh razorfly drones without recasting her 4 entirely - Maybe putting that effect on one tribute could help a lot and would be a nice improvement.

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For nyx those basically just a buffs.Glad You've decided to buff her, but please, either Truly rework her, or call it Buff's instead.But they won't gradually help her. what makes nyx bad and why this buffs('cuz i won't call a passive and small changes of 2nd a rework~) might help her, but wont bring her out of "depth of uselessness" are:

-her 1-2-3 is glorified versions of each other.

-absorb is useless with combination with other skills. How you would collect damage, when every one shoot at each other?

-her absorb is practically useless. It's glorified version of iron skin with higher cost and speed+damage set to 0. even with augment it's still iron skin. still higher cost, but now you can shoot and walk

-confusion on its self is weak CC. Especially since high lvl enemies can one shot you, but with current Armor scaling, it's just sticks to them(but not for us 😞) And it's not that "forcing enemies to attack each other" is not as good, as slowing them, it's just that with current taunt mechanic(if there is one) there is no guaranty, that they won't suddenly start to shoot nyx, instead of each other.

-With current set of skills there is no way to survive, outside of "moded glorified version of iron skin"

so, what these buffs fixes

-1-2-3 problem is kinda still there. its nice that your slave now can be tougher through you manipulation, though it would be better if you could manipulate him, for example through press-1 to attack, hold 1 to release mind control. also receiving damage from Any source should buff slave. Mind control is also a good opportunity to make it also as survivability skill at a same time being mind control. so granting even more distinction of skills would fix this problem

-absorb i think just needs a rework overall. it's just wont work with her abilities, also many people already wrote, but:

1-damage that enemies deal to you is not as lethal to them, as it is to you

2-damage they use is weak against their armor type

3-how passive would work(decreased accuracy) with absorb?

4-problem was in absorb itself, not damage type that it dealt

-chaos is still same, so cc is still weak
-outside of her passive(quote"if you want to die in 0.9 sec instead 1 second, thats your choice") no survivability.

 

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Nyx changes look interesting.

But Titania...tribute buffs and razor butterflies don't scale well. Her passive is very niche and her Diwata has many issues...

Edited by Sahansral
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Played this game on and off for years, buying plat during the playing periods. The last time I played was on Titiania's release until some time after when I max'd her (4+ Forma) mostly max mods and weapons, great fun but there was always something missing. Skill 1 and 3 being basically the same, the tribute change is welcome, but it's still not enough. Her damage and survivability really fell off in long survival missions. If DE make REAL changes and roll out Titania Prime (like the love they gave to Limbo) I will bring my money back to this game for a final spin.

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With the Nyx sounds rework, is detonating Absorb going to keep it's awesome booming sound effect? That's one of my absolute favourites!

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