Nyx & Titania Dev Workshop

[SSI_Seraph]

il y a 12 minutes, [DE]Bear a dit :

Just letting you all know, we have added some additional changes to this rework post, based on your feedback! See above, or see the original post!

Keep your thoughts coming, folks!

Nyx's debuff is still not as good as it seems because it's still random and only hits a limited number of targets based on the dev stream showcase. if it hits the butchers and leaves the bombard then it didn't really do the job and you're gonna need to spam and rely on RNG.

Titania's buffs as still worthless by nature tbh and she still needs to go pick them up. They should at least be vacuumed if they're not gonna change the worst ones (a 25% slow at 10m seems rather counter-intuitive for a squishy frame only relying on RNG with accuracy debuffs for her survivability, or a reflect with no multiplier at all)

[Gene_Freak]

Titania's buffs still seem anemic, though the energy changes help some to justify casting them. If Entangle had a wider radius, if Thorns had a high status chance, if Fullmoon gave companions some survivability in the form of damage reduction - then you'd have something.

The increased energy pool is great, for a frame that's such a caster by nature she always seemed limited in that regard.

[CarrotSalad]

2 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Keep your thoughts coming, folks! 

The issues i find with Titania are largely survival based.

• Outside razorwing she dies too fast. My solution has been to mod her entirely around duration to extend the life of Razorwing. This has a huge side effect though which is the casting range of her abilities are sub 50 metres with narrow minded. Further more most of her tribute abilities are virtually useless with such a big hit to range. Meaning the only viable playstyle i've found for titania at high levels is building around her 4th ability.

Anyone of the following suggestions would likely be adequate to me.

• increase the casting range of Tribute and Lantern to 50 metres. While the range of both skills increased to 40 metres.
• Increasing base health, armor, shields or agility
• Additional energy might help the situation given i might be able to switch flow with a range mod now but that still leaves me with very bad range on the ability.
• Reduce the energy per second drain on Titania while in Razorwing.

Reducing energy drain in razorwing is my preferred solution as i'd love to swap some of my duration mods for range in favor of being able to cast more abiltiies more often. Promoting a more active playstyle.

[Ikusias]

3 minutes ago, CarrotSalad said:

• Outside razorwing she dies too fast. My solution has been to mod her entirely around duration to extend the life of Razorwing. This has a huge side effect though which is the casting range of her abilities are sub 50 metres with narrow minded. Further more most of her tribute abilities are virtually useless with such a big hit to range. Meaning the only viable playstyle i've found for titania at high levels is building around her 4th ability.

just a note about tribute: it's aura ranges,as far as i tested and checked on the wiki, are fixed and unmoddable, so the actual auras don't lose range from narrow minded.

What gets gimped is the range at wich is possible to cast tribute on enemies (literally in their faces) and that Lantern's already ineffective CC range gets completely invalidated, making it no better than Spellbind...

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

Nice new changes, Titania changes pretty much hit all points I've post in a few places, even got the same energy amount. hypers

Nyx getting cast times that don't waste the 4 seconds is thoughtful too.

 

Though I'd say that for me Absorb will still feel like it's not very useful and extremely hard to make proper use of it, since the only change is to damage, while damage wasn't the main issue, it's usefulness and simplicity is. So I will just quote myself about Nyx's Absorb (even though that might have a wrong part in it but the ability still is only, in useful scenarios, half useful and the other half fells wasted).

 

On 2018-11-28 at 6:35 PM, God_is_a_Cat_Girl said:

So, the same but it accumulates different damage types? If the same, meh.
I'd say that's a nice change, but alone, not really since you lose Absorb charge very easily (or your team kill every close and you just stood there doing nothing for... almost no reason at all). I'd say it could be better if we could use part of the charged amount to fire a projectile with small AoE, this way she could defend target and still have an offensive method based on the absorbed damage. Kinda like Garuda in a way, but instead of using extra energy to multiply the damage you have, Nyx just charges the projectile with absorbed damage (so you can fire but keep what you want for the radial). That way it becomes less of "I'll stay here waiting to charge and HOPE I don't lose the charge", to "protecc but also atacc".

[llorange]

On 2018-12-03 at 12:14 PM, Gamma745 said:

Dust: Accuracy debuff sound fun on paper, but hard to use in practice. Seeing the enemies kept on missing you could be amusing, but essentially relying on RNG for survival is not that good, especially if it's just a 50/50 chance. Maybe increase the percentage to 70% or more?

Accuracy reduction is not very effective for higher level enemies; additionally, the 30m effect range that can't be affected by mod is a joke in open world. I hope DE could make it a 50 or 70% dodging chance instead.

On 2018-12-03 at 12:14 PM, Gamma745 said:

Thorns: Damage reflections have so far been proven unreliable here in Warframe. Even with 100% damage redirection (see what happened when Chaos is used), it will take the enemies some time to kill themselves, even without Armor. Maybe if it came with a Damage reduction to the Frames with the same percentage value, it could be used as a survival tool

Maybe changing thorns into damage reduction would be more reliable. "Reflect" means we must take damage first to hurt enemies. This is quite unsuitable for a fragile frame like Titania. Hoping DE could take more look into this.

 

[Pyus]

3 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Just letting you all know, we have added some additional changes to this rework post, based on your feedback! See above, or see the original post!

Keep your thoughts coming, folks!

Sounds like all of the Tribute/reflect damage feedback has been ignored. 25% reflect damage on 100 damage to a mob that has 30,000 HP is nothing. Useless, Tribute is a nice to have ability but is more like a "Why would I use this?" ability.  

[ArcKnight9202]

On 2018-11-29 at 3:20 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Additional Nyx Changes:

• Mind Control can now be cast while moving, and no longer halts Nyx in her tracks!
• The cast time for Mind Control has been decreased, so you can better use the 4-second window to ‘power up’ your new minion!
• Nyx’s passive ability to make enemies miss will be deactivated when she is using Absorb, meaning no shot will be wasted!

These bonuses to Mind Control are certainly appreciated. I like it.

That said, the changes to the passive, I'm less enthused about. One of people's main complaints about Nyx's current passive is that it sometimes removes the weapons of a target when it becomes Mind Controlled. I wondered why it never checked for the passive only after Mind Control had expired but I never made a big fuss about it. Now, after people highlight an anti-synergy with the new passive, it's okay to disable it when that event occurs. Why couldn't that be implemented onto the current passive? Sure, it could create confusion when the target was affected by other abilities first but that's beside the point. I just find it odd.

Next, I want to say that disabling the passive entirely during Absorb is pretty funny. For the many people that roll Nyx exclusively with Assimilate, they will not have a passive at all much of the time. Please tell me how this is an improvement. At least currently you can still proc disarm by using other abilities(correct me if I'm wrong).

This passive is, in my opinion, worse than the current one. For reasons why, I made a nice pros and cons list in my previous post which I'll reference here. Not everyone will agree, but that's okay.

If the disarm function could be rolled into her 2 and 3 as random events, that would be a pretty solid compromise.

*****

Moving on, I would like to state again that I would love to see the Radiation effect retained on Psychic Bolts. With Chaos being able to affect a much smaller area(due to a previous change or a bug), this has been very helpful. The minor damage would also be appreciated. It's handy to smash cameras with the little bit of damage it has. Other people also like to kill enemies with it for whatever reason. I actually think this skill will be less useful for me post-change.

Lastly, I wanted to touch on Absorb again. This skill is really bad. I was thinking today that it could be altered in a more interesting way(the base, not talking Assimilate). Hold 4 to channel the ability and absorb incoming damage and store it. Once released, Nyx can resume free movement at this time. (Damage absorption can resume again if held.) It can then be manually detonated whenever the player wants by tapping the button. This would include damage and knockback/ragdolling to help Nyx out in a pinch. I also considered an automatic detonation if X number of enemies got too close. Similar to Wyrm's Crowd Dispersion but much more lethal. This is not something I'm married to but it would help protect Nyx's back where the camera isn't facing.

[Zahnny]

10 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Just letting you all know, we have added some additional changes to this rework post, based on your feedback! See above, or see the original post!

Keep your thoughts coming, folks!

Will any of Nyx's FX or sounds reflect the night aspect of her name?

[Naneel]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb [DE]Bear:

REWORK UPDATE!

So we have been looking at your responses in this thread, and have made some additional adjustments, based on your feedback. These developments are still being tested, and we want to thank you all for your valuable feedback!

Additional Nyx Changes:

• Mind Control can now be cast while moving, and no longer halts Nyx in her tracks!
• The cast time for Mind Control has been decreased, so you can better use the 4-second window to ‘power up’ your new minion!
• Nyx’s passive ability to make enemies miss will be deactivated when she is using Absorb, meaning no shot will be wasted!

Additional Titania Changes:

• Baseline Energy Capacity increased to hit 225 at Max rank.
• The energy cost for Tribute has been decreased from 50 to 25.

Work continues, and we are very excited to bring these changes to you!

Those additions are nice, but if this is everything they took from the feedback it is a bit sad.

[Juvieus_Kaine]

13 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Just letting you all know, we have added some additional changes to this rework post, based on your feedback! See above, or see the original post!

Keep your thoughts coming, folks!

Has any reconsideration been made for the damage in = damage out for Absorb? The proposed changes would in theory be a nerf since enemies often have resistances to the damage they're dealing. Eg. Corpus shields resisting Puncture while most Corpus guns deal Puncture damage.

[KennBone]

will this rework come with new deluxe ? any ETA also ?

[(PSN)MJ-Cena7]

Nyx prime have some weird states like 50 armor most primes and frames go to 65 only regular vauban have 50 also 1.13 sprint speed can it be uped to 1.50 or 1.2 ? 

[Roboplus]

The issue with Titania being unable to switch to operator mode while in Razorwing is not going away. Please resolve it now, instead of 3 years from now.

[Amazerath]

No changes to the mobility and attack speed of mind controlled enemies is very disappointing.

[DarkSaint_Exile]

On 2018-11-28 at 1:20 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Tribute: 

As for the 4 Tribute types:
Dust - keep as-is:it reduces enemy accuracy by 50%!

Thorns - increase to 50% of damage reflected back to the attacker!

Entangle - keep as-is: one Entangle tribute slows an enemy by 25%!

Fullmoon - the 75% damage buff now applies to ALL (Sentinels, Moas, Companions)  + Razorwing Butterflies!

Will the Thorns buff from Tribute also apply to Sentinels, Moas, Companions & the Razorwing Butterflies?

[selig_fay]

Il y a 2 heures, Roboplus a dit :

The issue with Titania being unable to switch to operator mode while in Razorwing is not going away. Please resolve it now, instead of 3 years from now.

its no problem. In archwing mode, you can't use the operator too.

And why do you need it? The energy is not restored. Oneshot not healed. Interact with objects? NO, its game mechanics. 

[Keltik0ne]

Nyx will always be a sub par choice, in a game primarily about fast paced killing. A rework based on the same theme will always feel lackluster, especially compared to frames with comparable CC that also include damage buffs.

Titania is a solid frame, once packed with enough forma to make 3 frames god tier 😛

Hard frames to rework to be fair, both have problems based entirely on the execution of the original concept, combined with the way the game play has evolved. 

 

[Roboplus]

2 hours ago, zhellon said:

its no problem. In archwing mode, you can't use the operator too.

And why do you need it? The energy is not restored. Oneshot not healed. Interact with objects? NO, its game mechanics. 

I mentioned this earlier, but it was a few pages back.

On 2018-12-02 at 12:53 PM, Roboplus said:

... and while I'm sure someone else has already brought it up, the inability to switch to Operator form while in Razorwing is horrible. I get very upset every time I have to switch out of Razorwing, switch to Operator, switch back to Warframe, and then reactivate Razorwing (needing to reorienting myself at every perspective change).

... if I had to pick one issue with Titania, not being able to switch to Operator form while in Razorwing is catastrophic. And as we progress further along and Operator form becomes more powerful/important, that's only going to be even more crippling.

Regarding your Archwing comment:

If Razorwing was an Archwing, activating it would give Titania separate Shield, Health, and Energy Pools, passive Archwing energy regeneration rather than channeled ability costs, 4 new abilities to use, access to Archwing Mods, the Afterburner Archwing Maneuver, and losing all of your Health would only drop you out of the sky instead of downing your Warframe.

Razorwing is an alternate state, like Undertow or Peacemaker, that just happens to control like an Archwing. And among frames with some sort of alternate state, Titania's is the only one where you have free control, and is intended by design to be maintained for a lengthy duration, but cannot switch to Operator.

If you want an example, Nyx can't use Operator mode while standard Absorb is active. But, if you use Assimilate Absorb where you have control (albeit limited) of the Warframe, then you can switch to Operator.

[selig_fay]

il y a 7 minutes, Roboplus a dit :

I mentioned this earlier, but it was a few pages back.

I read it and I still don't understand why you need it.

Personally, I'd rather have button 5 answered the output from archwing. Then 4 could be something else , for example, the same butterflies.

[Darkvramp]

On 2018-11-28 at 12:20 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

AFTER:
Nyx still picks a single target within Range and brings them to the Tenno side for a given Duration - but now she can multiply the damage output of that enemy by her own hand!!

The target will have a 4-second wind up period to absorb your weapon damage which is on a multiplier to enhance its OUTPUT damage. For example only (numbers not final): every 2500 damage = 1.5x damage output of the target
We've also included better 'follow Nyx' behaviour to have the target stay with her.  

This feels really engaging in practice and adds just a bit more activity to your Nyx play - your targets become more valuable and you get to focus on weapon gameplay in the 4 second window to really pump them up! A Nyx should always choose their victim wisely.

can the mind control target also have an effect, wherein, it deals more damage to targets affected by chaos? this would add synergy within her own kit and encourage people to use more than one ability at a time (which is one of the flaws I have suddenly realized about nyx)

On 2018-11-28 at 12:20 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

AFTER:
Nyx absorbs all incoming damage and channels that collected energy into an explosive radial discharge - but now we've made the damage type output dynamic based on incoming damage types. If it is fed in, it feeds out!

Absorb is a very unique power - when Augmented it allows for a completely different kind of play. Alone, Absorb gives Nyx immortality in a pinch and can CC with knockdown, but now we've just added another edge in giving it dynamic Damage.       

also more synergy with chaos. wherein chaos targets target the absorb bubble, and transfer a multiplier of the amount of damage they deal into it, and when it explodes outwards, it deals a multiplier out to enemies affected by chaos. (this encourages synergistic gameplay and fixes her main problem, which is dealing an adequate amount of damage to anything in a reasonable amount of time.)

[(PSN)santospizarro]

• Give Nyx Elemental tools, and general purpose by tying in mining as a subweapon and each planets resources, i got the idea from looking at garnets of different radiouses on wish.com,  giving her safer control over her abilities the stones can also be used as ninja/melee weapons, not just for chanelling, but adequate enough to fit in with her super/and passive abilities, as they can be excavated, earned, and bought by their rank(s), rarity or level, and strenghts ( Garnet for example can be purified and enhanced or attached to weapons through NPC/mod/rank as players level up, an abilitity resonating with Stone eye could take Nyx to a Medusa skill table, giving her abilities based on  prefference of the player so she can have more than just manipulation powers, and other clear animations should allow players to tell the difference, stone enemies soudns funny, but there could be other dots, and ailments such as petrification, and curing powrs, since Nyx and Titania, the mythological roots could be used to give them each a few more passive ablities and special  movements enhancements so when the warframe isnt in cojmbat or is in a town, they have their own unique quirks not just emotes, but alternative uses for abilities and energy that can be tied into farming, crafting/resource/gathering/and travel ) for example, the  movements while crouching  and abilities used while in mid-air/versus, with the new stones, the user can operate some basic ninjutsu and mudra powers simular to chanelling, holding a button, secondray fire, and use some tools for combat, instance 1 - example is a player who runs out of bullets, enemies also run out of bullets and drop their weapons to be collected as blueprints and mods for players, Nyx could operate some of her tools or replace ammo need or titania when energy is avaliable but no bullets are around, at the very least the energy pool should be tapped into instead of having the warframe die / since not all the players are useful or capable of using abilities skill, or other, the need for passive merging of tools and resources is required therefor to make players collecting loot around the maps,. lockers, carving, fishing, etc alot more obviously fun, morphics can be gathered, but why cant just mag use it right away  to shoot a special bullet or final shoot, that is a good idea for a level 2 to give her a supporting bias to turn her collective pool into useful more than a suck/vac=warframe, each warframe could posees their own reason to be owned, so its not jsut an upgrade but have something reasonable to make players want to play both versions, etc. Nyx goes along the same lines, maybe her prime version can take orb and crystal  damage, learning how to use telekinesis and other magic taught by titania / and tribe/factions really need to be more rewarding and tie in better rewards for ships, i say give the players less requirements and functions by allowing some simple rewards that are automatically added to foundry and common place, free mods, resources, and tools that are reminders of the games less explored features tied into the leveling system, but resemble each of the missions, warframe, planets, not just mods, but random things that are passive/exclusive and cant be traded.
• titania and nyx train/learn frome each other, different skills, passive traits are exchanged and more can be earned/unlocked through leveling, missions, additional traits, automatic rewards per level up.
• Nyx learns how to use carving/mining tool efficiently gemstones become a secondary means of protection weapons for transposing ninjitsu # Mudras, mind control/abilities is safer, catalyst prevents warframe from taking lethal damage/ absorbtion of damage / excesive energy capacitance/storage, abilities are reformated and movement / sneakier gameplay/
• Garnet weapon / orb can enhance bullets of both Nyx/Titania warframes, should have different tones/sounds, throwable;attack/defensive update or tool for conjuring. Ⓜ️>8MM Titanium Blade Orb - Metalized Garnet tool used for combat. can be thrown to enhance abiliteis, and equiped on weapons, sticky granades, yoyos, sparklers, fuses, melee tricks,cool ninjitsu attacks, and melee enahcnement, etc.

[(PSN)santospizarro]

the player should be inspired to upgrade their tools for excavating by enahancing them with gemstones/refined or not and mods as they are earned, maybe in the future you cvan tie this up with the levelign system and importance of each warframe, which brings me to ask that Nyx and Titania be allowed to become more addept, unlock new passive skills for aquiring tools for magic and ninjitsu/transfers, since this will repourpose many items and game areas, market and requirements for learning and finding new rewards, blueprints, and amods, it should take a while and be added gradually as new combat improvements for the tools and warframes to use them for more than just their intended purpose, the players should find that they soon can create their own blueprints/toolkits/mods and catalyst to sell, for example the ayatan stars should be usable, as many other resources and collectables in warframe that i think are annoying and obvious, obstructive to the operators huds, and game cluterring to be given a special secondary purpose to enhance a weapon or tool temporarily, if they are to survive the overheating and prerequisites the player should take home a stack, something like enhancing abilities, or bursting into endo right in the middle of combat instead of simply collective feature, they aquire respective base for players and enemies, since they can also be scanned or collected for blueprints, the enemies should be able to snag-them and equipthem to their weapons/flametrhowers, etc. gotta make this update count for the enemies, since they will feel really rippped off if they dont get a rewarding fix like the ones that Nyx Titania are getting and the tools that i'm trying to reporpuse/solidifying so they react to everything in the environment, can be destroyed, used or upgraded/snap.

[(PSN)santospizarro]

recent replay of nyx left me dying over, she should at least be able to learn some extra skills that allow her to get up quickly from k.o, or trigger lowhealth / critical abilities / regen/ camuflage/ orbs / significant improvement would be to allow nyx to have some ground and aircombat enhancements, additional melee attacks/weapons and tools to use, i offered the minning tool as a new way to spice up combat since it could be made into a general appliance , adn the use of ayatan star for weapons / armor / endo , etc. alot of warframe has one-time items and mods that should at least be given a secondary use, so monsters and soldiers/enemies can use them, trick players to collect, and protection for say physics/phsykinetic traumma/melee resistant armor that are inside or scatered resources that havent bee given a realistic use for the players to colelct other than to sell, so a game mechanic that allows the divas to re-use them for power is nessesary giving the other warframes something to drool about in a future fix, neural sensor used in cunjuring enhancement/ enfeebling bullets with resources / enemies using resources / stealing or collecting items to become stronger targets / etc.

[(PSN)santospizarro]

• enemy turrets sense etheric/magic,  plated armor or protection for cams/nearby door should lock/require shooting/actiong.
• ayatan star can be stolen and used on enemy riffles, augmenting status and effectiveness, blue/red lethality on a flame thrower, shooting speed, etc. On a robot they serve as a reservore for movement,sensors,booster,modidying weapons and atuning to nearby squadrones, like when vision first came out in the iron-man movies, his source of power - the cyan star could be like the evil robot version ultron, human enemies could power up or use special attacks to enhance guns, and allow them to survive longer, run fastser, etc. Point to make, enemies and resources lacck general purpose, and should be fun way to bring back power ups from old video games for both the players and the enemies fi done well, dormant mods, tools, and items that the palyer finds would make mroe sense to unlock some dormant traits, or temporary  boosters for the nav coordinates to update the minimaps, or neuroddes to be used for enhancing armor/bulelts.
• In the case of Nyx who can learn to make her own weapons from jewels for making mudra weapons # ninjatools, mining would become mainstream and a good reason to level up and find new dormant powers inside the gemstones/crystals for Nyx. 
•  mods and other clutter found in battle reporpused and made temporary/subtle preview, like a one time use before the player obtains or equips the mods, this way the players can collect them or turn them in to useful energy, tools, and enhancements for booth the players and enemies to collect reasonably enhancing the gameplay level of difficulty and giving purpose to the enemies to grab argon crystals and open lockers, such rewards for the players to find them or disarm the lateral would enhance gameplay drastically.
• reporpuse items and abilities for non-combat, and tools, mods, collectibles as temporary resources or powerups for movement, fuel for boosting/sprinting/rockets/skates/magic/tool enahncements/life/weather/
• additional ammo is annoying, enemies should be able to collect items, resources and ammo for their own beneficial gain, to shoot faster, enhance troops, gain health, etc.