Nyx & Titania Dev Workshop

[KroneVanguard]

These are two of my favourite characters but despite the update, I always play them the same: Chaos, Absorb/Assimilate Nyxia and Razorwing cute pixie Pixia. 🦋

[Allinall8]

Nyx seems to go down alot more now after the update in that moment coming out of absorb.. that needs to be fixed, also has anyone else noticed self damage doesn't seem to work with absorb anymore either?

[WhimsicalPacifist]

6 hours ago, Air-mage said:

don't worry about her being forma hungry, i have 6 on her and she still sucks, and her only usable thing is her pistols (which are still weaker than my main pistols and weapons)

Don't worry, sink another 6 in and you'll have an all-round build.  Drop Narrow Minded and Fleeting Expertise though and you'll need an Arcane Energize or two.  Do wish Lantern did something other than make grunts feel pretty as they walk past them to the objective.

[Howtoshootgun]

As expected the new passive is at best meh (is it like a 5% chance to miss?) but imo way worse than the old one. Please explain to me like im a very stupid child how a) spammable abilities taking enemies guns so they cant shoot you and have to resort to weaker melee (for the entire team) is worse than b) a random/fixed (?) tiny miss chance for Nyx alone. The old passive description is still there, not that much work to just revert it to how it was before, pretty please 😛

I think the the argument was that Nyx needs to be hit and so the old passive runs counter to that, but absorb disables it anyway? Besides that absorb is and always has been crap for damage, it was always about the invulnerability more than anything else.

Mind controlled/chaosed enemies still cant kill stuff as effectively as a good gun or another frame, what else is new, was that ever the point. Its CC. Hit em with chaos, kill em while they run around like headless chickens or move on - or if its a defense take a nap while they attack anything but the objective. Who for the purpose of actually killing stuff stands there pressing chaos over and over until the enemies have killed themselves half an hour later

You had the foresight to not fiddle around with chaos, whew. Change to 1 and 2 are interesting, could use some work still it seems

Reasoning for the changes was Nyx is in bottom 10% of used frames (and oh that deluxe skin coming up). DE tries to keep old frames fresh, thats good but please not at the cost of messing around with her kit  to maybe make her more appealing to players who didnt play Nyx before and wont play her now either. Stop trying to make Nyx a DPS frame. Its a CC frame, it has its niche and unless you totally revamp the kit to something else entirely people will still play her 10 minutes, go "room doesnt explode when i press 4, weak" and go back to Mesa or Saryn. Its not for everyone but still works, please dont break it

Ill keep maining Nyx since now its like in ye olden days when there wasnt any passive and the rest of the changes dont break her too bad (yet) but this aimless fiddling is worrysome.

In case anybody from the dev team reads this thread (seems not) heres another thread with some pretty good suggestions in it

Merry Christmas

 

[nogi187]

Nice changes to Nyx ! But could you please change Absorb to make it not react to friendly fire anymore. This would make it into a really great defensive ability. Right now it is more like a pseudo Magnetize because 60% of the teammates do not realise they are shooting at it (because they are inside the bubble or stuff like that) and the other 40% are trolls who want to drain the energy of the Nyx player. So please, please with sugar on top, change it, that would be really awesome.

[selig_fay]

Apparently, DE hates archwing. What Titania to that arch the gun, disappointed.

[Emberstone]

Like Nyx's rework so far, but the damage still seems lacking versus lv 50+ enemies cuz of the armor. I think the dmg needs more rapid scaling or bonus damage on psych'd units.

Titania's "rework" still plays more like a tweak than a rework. You basically do the same thing you've always done but you don't have to spam as often.

Still recommend looking at this DE, 't got 13 upvotes despite being burried within the thread.
--------------------------------------------

Give her a proper rework:
Passive - Swarm: A swarm of Razorflies always accompany Titania, attacking enemies and drawing aggro. If Razorflies are destroyed, they can be respawned slowly over time or by casting abilities. Razorflies deal more damage to enemies affected by Titania's abilities
Other: Increase base energy and half her casting times

1. Spellbind: On cast, halts enemy movement before casting them into the air to prevent momentum from moving them too much. Razorflies will be attracted to and attack Spellbound enemies.

2. Tribute: Rather than target-based, now attacks in a radial AoE around Titania. All enemies affected will have their damage heavily reduced and drop their souls on death. Razorflies are attracted to affected enemies. Allies receive all Tribute auras that Titania has active. Casting Spellbind on Souls will automatically pick them up for Titania

- Dust: Nearby enemies suffer reduced accuracy. More Souls increase the accuracy reduction
- Thorns: Scales off of health %'s. More souls, more damage, ie: 1 soul, 1%, 10 souls 10% hp (capped to 10) dmg over xx seconds.
- Entangle: Nearby enemies are slowed. More Souls Increase the slow effect 
- Full Moon: All companions and Razorflies receive increased damage.

3. Lantern: Tosses a glowing light a short distance, which then hovers in place and attracts nearby enemies. A second Swarm of Razorflies is spawned as well, luring in and attacking enemies. 

4. Razorwing: All ability costs are reduced while Razorwing is active. If Tribute is cast during Razorwing, Titania will pull all drops within range towards her

Miscs:
- Have all abilities not lock you in place whilst casting, it interrupts the flow so much of this agile warframe.

TL;DR
Passive - Adds survivability
Her 1 - Adds utility and spellweaving
Her 2 - Adds utility to a lacking buff-system currently in place.
Her 3 - Adds utility,Survivability, Spellweaving and increased defensive options
Her 4 - Removes the vacuum conflict with channeling ability (sucking up 25 energy orb with 199/200 energy)

[Decondelite]

Tried Titania's rework. Got very disappointed because it's not an actual rework.

1) Spellbind

I don't have got much to say. I know many players say that 1 and 3 are practically the same, but to my eyes they aren't. I use Spellbind to disable a massive group of mobs and its does that job correctly.

2) Tribute

Making it only 1 to get a tribute's full power is welcome, but the tributes are still useless if we can't have strength, duration and range affecting them. When I have 150% duration, I expect the tributes to last 180 seconds instead of 120 seconds. When I have 150% range, I expect the Dust aura to be 45m instead of 30m. When I have 150% strength, I expect dust to have 66.7% accuracy loss by the mobs (1 chance to miss out of 3). And by accuracy loss, I mean an extra accuracy layer, which means that they have a 66.7% chance to fail hitting if all the previous rolls came to a successful hit. As for the Thorn, likewise when I have 150% strength I expect 66.7% of the damage to be reflected back to the attacker. Same goes for the two last tribute effects, you got the idea.

If strength, range and duration did have some effect on tribute, we could have Titania builds that are specialized in the usage of Tribute in various ways :

-strength for maximal damage reduction / companion buff / speed debuff

-range for maximal control / team buff coverage / a general wider safety area

-duration to be good to go for 3 Minutes (2 minutes for companion buff)

3) Lantern

I couldn't care if I had 1, 4 or 10000 lanterns, because as long as they don't do their actual job properly (sticking a mob in place) they're absolutely useless. Just make them work... They need a range buff too : a little buff for the attraction range (25m instead of 20m would be fine IMHO), and a huge buff to the damage dealing area (5m instead of 2.5m wouldn't be abusive TBH). Explosion range looks OK.

4) Razorwing

The changes are nice, but I'd still like to be able to renew the razorflies automatically. Maybe at a constant rate that can be enhanced with duration and/or strength. And probably have the razorflie's level be equal to the map's mobs instead of being level 30 at all times, that'd make sense.

Passive)

The passive still sucks. The self-boost for bullet jumps is fine, but frankly the trampoline for team mates is useless. I'd welcome a passive a bit similar to Hydroid's instead : being able to spawn a razorfly by killing a mob affected by spellbind or something like that. Oh wait, I just killed two birds with one stone : I found a nice way to renew razorflies in archwing mode and something that makes the 1 feel a bit more different than the 3. ^^

 

Anyway, I've always been a hardcore player of Titania, I tend to use all her abilities, but frankly I do understand quite well why most players still wont use her even after that "rework" that doesn't deserve the name "rework". No offense DE, but you haven't thought hard enough. And you haven't played that frame enough aswell.

[(PSN)santospizarro]

Magnetic balls 

[WhimsicalPacifist]

Really quite depressed regarding the Titania "fix" on her 3.  I had a theoretical build ready for multiple Lanterns but that went down the trash after seeing the mobs nonchalantly ignore the lantern and continue to shoot me/the objective.

Also somewhat annoying, there has been a grand total of 1 (THAT"S ONE!) Youtube video detailing Titania post-patch.  Sure, dozens of videos on orb fights, plenty of videos with Garuda/Baruuk.  There's Life of Rio pontificating Garuda tweaks, most of the others going over new weapons/Prime Access.  Total attention given to Titania's past, present solved/unsolved problems?  ONE video by Aweblade4.  Oh whoops, Rahetalius posted a video  20 hours ago which snuck in a sidenote to Titania's squishiness.

[(NSW)Gregory]

Since the core complaint regarding Titania’s rework pertains to the vacuum and channeled abilities like Razorwing, I have a suggestion.

Only allow energy pickups when you’re missing the amount of energy that is going to be restored.

If you aren’t missing at least 25 energy, you can’t pick up an energy orb. And when you do, you only pick up one energy orb. Same goes for health orbs.

Although this fails to take into consideration Arcane Energize, so it’s probably not enough.

 

Alternatively. Make Vacuum innate for all Warframes, and let us adjust the range in options. (3 to 11.5 to anywhere in between)

Actually, just do that anyway.

 

@[DE]Rebecca

[DarkSaint_Exile]

I must say I am loving the Titania rework for the most part. The increased energy pool, not having to recast Tribute as often to refresh the buffs, and Razorwing's vacuum allows you to stay in Razorwing a lot longer. But I still hope DE takes another look at Lantern it is still the least used part of the kit for me. Even with 4 Lanterns up enemies still attack me or my Razorflies. Giving us more cast hasn't solved the problem of the ability not functioning properly. I'm hoping DE takes a look at some of the suggestions posted in the forum and thinks about changing Tribute altogether.

[kunfuman]

Yo, this is one addition that is totally needed for Nyx mind control...AUTO MARKED. So annoyed seeing everyone trying to kill the mind controlled target. If a giant ALLY tag can be place on the target and automatically removed when duration is over would be a perfect QoL addition. PLEASE MAKE THIS HAPPEN!!!

[Ikusias]

So far Titania's "rework" bugfix has barely improved on her overall status:

- tribute needing only one per type is an improvement alongside the cost reduction... the effectivenes and range of the debuffs is still bad or unreliable, they are unmoddable as their effects doesn't scale with power strenght, duration or range; current ranges are insulting: 10 m aura slow, 30 m aura miss chance and companions boost, 40 m damage reflection (as if she can survive any incoming damage) they would be acceptable if were the result of modding intentionally sacrificing range for other stats, not as the maximum ummoddable fixed ones... considering that all tribute effects are debuffs and need enemies to be and remain in range to work

Dust, Titania's only defensive buff, evaporates in effectiveness with enemy level and distance (30m what of largish tiles or the existing landscapes?) - it's the only defensive power that needs to be "picked up" instead of activating on cast and it's quite conditional on top as it doesn't guarantee protection (having a 50% chance is a coin toss and RNG generation in Warframe is baffling at the least!) and it's a -50% that is apparently subtracted from enemy hit chance, chance that raises with their level apparently (anyone with better info is welcome to correct me on this point - this is only at the moment empirical evidence)

The only other frame with conditional activation powers that comes to mind is Octavia and her powers are actually effective (can't be shot if the enemy can't see you) and due to their nature are buffs on self and allies, de facto infinite range.

- Spellbind and lantern still induct targets in the Tenno Space Program or TSP for brevity, completely defeating lantern effect... when it actually works.

Scratch the above: all knockback, bounches and the like are out of whack with things bouncing out of surfaces, enemies and allies like Bouncy balls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouncy_ball        ofthen with hilarious and/or lethal consequences (tonkor and penta grenades murdering the shooter by bounching back in their faceplate with 30° acute angles! and lethal momentum)

- Lantern "aggro" is nonexistant, with enemies ignoring it in favour of murdering Titania & Co

- still no way of renew the swarm of razorflies even when lanthern does in fact spawn its own when it isn't stripping away Titania's fighter escort

- Razorwing is still precluded from all [X] interactions while all other exalted weapons/forms  and the archwing/skywing and sharkwing themselves haven't this limitation

- Razorwing standard speed is still utterly mediocre, even slower than Titania's full size dashing or parcouring and makes Razorwing Blitz a mandatory mod, not an option or utility

- 2 exalted weapon to forma beyond Titania herself ofthen totaling in the order of 7-9 forma, depending how many primed mods players try to fit. Of them only one is actually viable.

- ground slams and similar effects affect razorwing even when non in contact with the ground;

- razorwing is treated as an archwing in both landscapes, further screwing Titania over negating her even this niche as all anti-air attacks in those locations are meant to knock skywings out leaving the carried warframe grounded. guess what? this downs Titania instantly regardless of EHp buffs, effects etc.

- the only part of Titania's kit that is actually of interest, her selling point, it's her razorwing form. Nothing was done to accomodate this fact by adapting the rest of her kit around it.

when she was originally launced there were plans to incorporate a 50% discount or efficency buff in all her other powers when cast during Razorwing, it was never implemented

- except razorwing all titania's abilities depend on having enemies or allies on hand to target, none works per se. The worst offender is Spellbind that's got a self status removal in it but needs to be cast in the ground for Titania to benefit.

Final point of all this wall of text the rework workshops themselves:

every time DE has posted a "workshop" about a rework, every solution that required more work than minimal numbers tweaking has been completely ignored and discarded, leaving the affected frames barely changed or severely diminisced - only exception was Saryn - because it was a pet project and one that went unfortunately quite awry making her even more obnoxious than before by switching her element to the best to contrast armor scaling - sorry [DE]Pablo, if you wanted to reign her in you really dropped the ball this time, pity because Nidus and revenant are excellent compared to her and don't destroy other teammates enyojment of the game...

near zero response or aknowledgment of suggestions, problems and/or wants except when response was blatantly negative like melee 2.5 or the issues were so blatant not even a blind would miss them.

frames that had to wait years in the queque and are more than underutilized got barely a glance a spit of polish and a kick back into oblivion.

So far of all reworks the best have been Excalibur's and Nezha, Volt's wasted more time on speed opt in or opt out, riot shield and inanities like that instead of actually rebuild the frame in an actual starter frame with a learning curve, ember's and banshe's augment were directly a nerf resonating quacke needed only to lose the damage buff, ember hasn't got actual damage in higher levels or decent survivanility tools and still makes a nuisance of herself at lower levels burning everything to ashes in lower starmap levels.

Saryn's rework is the trainwreck we all know already, Chroma got "fixed" because it was too effective against eidolons... and half his owers are unusable or too expensive for their benefit (#1 and #4)

Limbo has become a good deal more squad friendly than before but can still potentially become a trollframe, Zephir's kit is still a mess... tentacle pervert Hydroid got a bit of polish...

Khora, Revenant and Garuda both needed emergency fixes on launch and still have some of the worst cobbled together kits so far due to their launch amidst the chaos of Plains Of Eidolon and Fortuna...

[Naneel]

As Titania still feels clunky to play, I had two new ideas for her passive to possibly make her a bit smoother.

1) She only functions good in Razorwing, so we just make that her passiv. She will start every mission tiny and with the evasion bonus (50%, this is probably to good). Your 4th Ability will be your Exalted Weapons. This will give her a better defensiv position, but requires probably a lot of work to let her interact normally (consoles, datamasses...) and she would defenitly need a way to resummon her Razorflies except death.

2) Make her Tribute the passiv. Every enemy that dies while under the effect of on of her Abilities will drop its soul, that you then can collect. This would free up the 2nd Ability slot for a new skill (hopefully more Razorflies).

I would like to hear your suggestions on this.

[BigHeX]

Can you please exclude dropped points in "The Index" from being pulled-in by Titania's vacuum. I really can't use her in The Index while she is like this.

[DanteYoda]

Gotta say new Nyx is worse than old Nyx, shes pretty much DOA for me which is sad, unplayable now, and that passive of hers is not working at all or just too low to be useful..

I pretty much agree with most here on her skills, the 2nd skill the 6 is too low needs to be spamable as you cannot use it again until you find all 6 or turn it off (pointless or what) the other skills just don't work anymore to keep her alive at higher levels.. Spaming 3 isn't efficient to survive..

 

Honestly bit of a failure this update and her frame.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

What I would do to Nyx and Titania RE-VISIT (not rework) 

Nyx:

Passive: Make it 50% chance.

1st ability:

·       Since it’s all about controlling the enemy It should do more than just fight for you. The controlled enemy can hack alarms off for you and if they are traps it should be able to disarm them. (or add it to the 3rd ability)

·       Make it to where you can either make it stay in one spot or follow you.

·       (augment) deactivating the ability will kill the enemy which will spread to other enemies in close range, attacking each other for half the duration.

 

2nd ability:

·       Make it debuff all eximus units.

·       Make there be an indicator showing that the affected enemies have the debuff.

·       Make it hit multiple targets instead of one.

·       (synergy) Using it on the 1st ability can buff its survivability and receive a speed buff.

·       Make it to where you either use it on the same enemy to debuff it more OR it can`t be used on the same enemy so it will target enemies that`s not affected by it.

 

3rd ability:

·       Just to make it more useful you can make them do the idea I put on the 1st ability bulletpoint. To add to this, they could also make them fight enemies, run away in fear and lay on the ground brain dead. (there will be a percentage of each of them preforming those actions)

 

4th ability:

·       Make sure the passive deactivates when using the 4th ability.

·       Make it move at the same speed as jogging.

·       It pulls aggro from enemies and are hermitized into moving closer to nyx in a 50m radius.

·       You can use weapons inside it to add status effects to the absorption damage, but you can`t shoot enemies through it, adding status effects will also includes melee weapons. 

·       Whatever enemy is shooting at nyx will be affected by the explosion no matter the distance. Enemies in close damage range will take damage and enemies outside that will receive a knockdown and the status affects from weapons.

·       (Synergy) You can cast other abilities while using 4th ability.

·       (Synergy) If you use the 2nd ability, when deactivating the 4th ability, the debuff will spread to enemies the survive the blast.

(Me personally I would get rid of this ability and replace it with a new one)

 

Titania:

·       Increase all ability cast speed time.

 

1st ability:

·       Instead of them rag dolling, make them just hover in the air. (please make this so)

·       (augment) When adding status damage to enemies, when the affected enemy is killed, it will spread to nearby enemies.

 

2nd ability:

·       All ability affects when stacked up will reach up to 75% (as of now the abilities are unnoticeable and useless)

·       The range of enemies affected should be in a 50m radius.

·       Thorns – the damage reflection should be 1000+ to make it useful.

·       Full Moon – it should also increase companion’s movement speed.

·       Holding the ability should give you the option to choose what buff you want.

·       Enemies should get either a damage debuff or a health debuff.

 

3rd ability:

·       Each enemy affected will increase the range by 2m.

 

4th ability:

·       While using 4th ability, make the other ability cost half the energy.

·       Get rid of zero gravity. When you stop, she stops instead of it keep on moving, it’s very annoying. (include this in archwing)

[sycrix]

Nyx - Quality of life changes

Mind control : fix ai 

Suggestion 1 - mind controlled enemy explode on death for the damage dealed to it (15m radius) damage type based of the highest damage type dealt to it 
Suggestion 2 - mind controlled enemy grands a 20/30/40/50% speed buff (movement speed/animation speed and attack speed) can scale with power strength
Gives the ai less time to fool around 

Psychic Bolts : hold recast changed  

suggestion - Can now be charged by holding in (like embers/hydriod 1st ability) doubling the energy cost.
Charged psychic bolts can be cast on a mind controlled enemy amplifying the weapon to shoot psychic bolt to debuff the enemies 
Or is consumened while going in absorb, nyx shoots psychic bolts at enemies that shoot at her while in absord.
(the psychic bolts come out of the absord bubble for the visual like homing missiles)

pyschic bolts applied by absord can only be applied again if the duration ends. avoding the effect that it shoots more then 1 bolt at an enemy disturbing visuals and performence

Why:It gives nyx a more intresting way to spread debuffs and confusion on the battlefield instead of psychic bolts to be recastable and gives absorb more meaning.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Nyx passive should be a built in Rolling Guard. Otherwise revert her back to original build. These upgrades don't look that good.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

Is it possible to just allow Titania Tribute to be cycled through akin to Vauban's Mines or Ivara's arrows?

[csaszar]

Titania got aome love but still has problems. For example the reflext damage is an insult to the playerbase.

Nyx is a total failure partly because of the rework partly because of the environment. Fortuna is the focus now - and will remain for a time - and in fortuna skill based frames are in a severe state. After some time and alert level there will be so many nullifiers that the game stops being fun. 

Its not a difficulty factor that gets adrenaline and wants us to get more and more but the worst kind of fun killer and limiter kind.

There is a lot problem with fortuna but IMHO thats the greatest. Removing nullifiers totally would be a nice step forward.

[csaszar]

Nyx absorb

The common damage a faction are dealing is not matching the damage type the same faction are vulnerable.

That means the damage will turn into something that is mostly the worst type.

It would be more logical to make it behave like Revenants 4th.

On paper the rework sounds good but in reality...

[Air-mage]

On 2018-12-21 at 1:34 AM, WhimsicalPacifist said:

Don't worry, sink another 6 in and you'll have an all-round build.  Drop Narrow Minded and Fleeting Expertise though and you'll need an Arcane Energize or two.  Do wish Lantern did something other than make grunts feel pretty as they walk past them to the objective.

i already have both in but even with 0 str in my build and 175%eff and long udration i don't have enough energy left to use anything wialong with 4

[WhimsicalPacifist]

4 hours ago, Air-mage said:

i already have both in but even with 0 str in my build and 175%eff and long udration i don't have enough energy left to use anything wialong with 4

That's unfortunately expected.  Razorwing Blitz as a rough "rule" will double your energy consumption.  The only thing I can think of is to recommend Pax Bolt which might allow you to drop Fleeting Expertise to an even lower level or drop it altogether.

Before I had Arcane Energize, I'd either have to use Large Squad Energy restores or a Syndicate mod/weapon to help fuel up at the start of the mission.  She's still the fastest on foot without using abilities, but extremely vulnerable.

Technically you can build for defensive proc cheese (Adaptation, Arcane Guardian, Magus Elevate) and stay alive on foot, but at that point you're not using Titania as Titania for any of her abilities, but rather a homogenized platform for the proc mods and Operator usage.