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[DE]Rebecca

Nyx & Titania Dev Workshop

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The issue with Nyx is that her mind contolled targets stop what they're doing and follow her if she moves away from them. Even if it's just a short distance so lots of the time they really just dont attack which wastes most of your duration with travel time. Maybe tether the mind controlled target to an area of 30m or so, that way while nyx is actively moving your mind control can keep attacking.

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Perfect. I can see Assimilating around, blasting armor stripping bolts. Always great to get a buff.

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Nice a simple changes that make the frames much smoother, and makes some lesser abilities more interesting. Not every rework needs to replace abilities, good stuff.

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I don't personally enjoy Nyx anyway so I have no comments.

I personally play a pure Razorwing Titania without Razorwing Blitz, because there really isn't much purpose in using her other skills in their current iteration. As mentioned by many others already, her low energy pool makes one want to reserve everything for Razorwing, given that she can't regain energy other than picking up orbs (and rage is not viable as she can't regen health either). I actually have a lot of gripes with her entire kit (I have an alternate build with very long range and low strength to try playing using her 1, 2, 3, guess what I didn't use that beyond three missions), which the rework isn't going to address. 

I get it that Razorwing is awesome but given Titania's current state you would be better off if her first 3 abilities were replaced by Trinity's EV. Really.

Ok, first we start with Titania's base stats.

Shields and Health are both 100 base (300 at level 30). I don't have any problem with that if she is going to be built as a glass cannon. I can't be half assed about her armor either.

Energy is 100, with 150 at level 30. This really needs to be increased, like many says. I would of course wish for 175 base (262 at 30) with her eventual prime having 200 (300 at 30) but I guess 150 (225 at 30) is still better than nothing. Right now as it stands, this is very low.

A lot of people are talking about very long cast times. Yes, these are very, very long, even for someone used to not using natural talent on his other frames. There is no reason to cast any ability when it locks you in place and doesn't do much, making one dead very quickly if shot at. Not to mention even in Razorwing you are better off slashing with Diwata or firing if the Dex Pixias have ammo in them.

Titania's passive is fine when it's not convenient to move around in Razorwing. It helps her cover ground faster, I guess. I never use it to help my team mates move faster anyway. Titania could do with longer aim glide as well.

As for her abilities? 

1. Spellbind:

Could have some great uses ... but hampered by its very clunky mechanics.

  • Issues
    • As mentioned by many, yes, enemies are still going to float away like helium balloons with snapped strings. I don't need to reiterate this.
    • It is troublesome even if used as a self cleanse, as already mentioned. You cannot cast on the self and must find a nearby wall, or even kiss it if you use narrow minded.
    • Radius of Spellbind is very small even when built for max range. A proper Razorwing Build using narrow minded makes this completely useless outside of stacking Razorwing Blitz.
    • Cast speed. People keep talking about this it hurts.
    • No real reason to use it when it's smarter to focus on re-positioning and firing more shots in Razorwing. 
  • Suggestions
    • Increase the cast speed. Make it so Titania can still move when casting. Or even better make it a one handed action
    • Rather than make enemies float, bind them to the ground with energy vines! It's more melee friendly and there is no risk of team mates shooting the targets to an alternate universe.
    • Make it an AoE around Titania/a cone in front of Titania that grants the status cleanse and immunity. As it stands, CCing enemies 50 meters away is pointless when shooting them with a gun is bound to ... solve the problem better (even when not in Razorwing).
    • Possibly make enemies drop energy or health orbs if they are affected by Spellbind when they die. Would open up use of Energy/Health conversion on Titania as well as Rage.

2. Tribute:

The RNG nature of buffs is still not solved. Still an energy hog. Still not going to help Titania live longer. Still clunky.

  • Issues
    • Cast time is not changed!? No real reason to use it when it's smarter to focus on re-positioning and firing more shots in Razorwing, as above. 
    • Obtained buffs still enemy dependent. Buffs are still not very good. This has been mentioned by many. Titania shouldn't be using Damage Reflection!
    • Still energy hungry, just less so.
    • Not reusable on the same enemy - what if we want to make them lose 25% of their damage again?
    • Souls are in a rather bad position to be picked up if it's in the middle of a clump of enemies.
    • Short cast range
  • Suggestions
    • One handed cast. This ability really deserves it. Allow Titania to reload, run and do anything else as she waves her hand in a fancy way.
    • Unify all the buffs as one and make Titania have to stack it. Removes the RNG entirely
      • Possible way to do this is just make Titania gain 10% damage reduction (affects Razorflies), 25% (fixed) enemy slow in 10/15/20/25/30 meter radius and 10% more companion damage (affects razorflies) per stack, up to a maximum of 5 stacks. 
    • Allow Titania to recast it on enemies if we want to hurt them and give them that -25% again. Doesn't have to give another soul.
    • Rather than push the enemy away, knock them down and pull the soul towards Titania by half of the maximum range. If she's near she'd just pick it up anyway and if she's far at least there's less legwork to get the soul. Plus you don't have to charge into an enemy clump.
    • Reduce the cost to 25. Even 35 is a better deal.
    • Increase max range to 35 meters or even 50. Come on...
    • Allow it to respawn one Razorfly per soul picked up in Razorwing?

3. Lantern:

The single target hard CC is solved by allowing up to 4 now. Tether sounds great. However, the DoT is pretty much still aesthetic now.

  • Issues
    • Long cast is a prevalent Titania problem. 
    • DoT area is pretty small
    • Final Explosion is also kind of small and doesn't scale.
  • Suggestions
    • I get it this is a stronger ability. At least don't lock Titania's movement when she's casting this.
    • increase the DoT area to 10 meters. It's just aesthetic now.
    • The final explosion can store damage dealt to the lantern while it is active and release it in a 12 meter radius blast. I mean if you have the urge to shoot the lantern it should give some return.

4. Razorwing:

Titania's shining star ... and overall the only really good ability she has. Right now it makes her a one trick pony. Adding the Vacuum is nice. Titania is not a fast flier, though.

  • Issues
    • Diwata is in a state where using your Dex Pixia for melee is still a better choice.
    • Razorflies have no way of coming back
    • Not as fast as one would like without Razorwing Blitz
    • Again, the casting animation ... but I don't have that much issues with this because you only use it once in a while.
  • Suggestions
    • Diwata can benefit from more base damage (in the 300s range) and even more crit chance (maybe 25%/30%). Make it like some proper Arch Melee! Or perhaps give it a special effect like giving Razorflies on Diwata kills.
    • Slow Razorfly regen of 1 Razorfly every 5 seconds if less than max number? Or a secondary fire that consumes 15 energy to regenerate all Razorflies?
    • Give us an afterburner for Titania so she can boost. This is much needed, really.
    • Let Titania's Razorwing Vacuum suck up souls generated by Tribute?
    • Nullify the energy costs for a duration if Titania picks up a Tribute Soul?
    • Allow Aviator to work with Razorwing.

Unlike many I wouldn't say Titania is in an absolute terrible state and I still kind of like her, but her 1, 2 and 3 aren't going to be worth using even when buffed as one is still inclined to reserve all that energy for Razorwing.

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On 2018-11-28 at 10:20 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

New Passive: Enemies can't seem to truly target Nyx and all receive an accuracy debuff against her.

Nyx is receiving a new passive overall, the random disarm was on-theme, but feedback over time has always slanted toward 'new passive, please!'.

This new Passive fits her theme well. Be it psychically making the enemy drop their weapons randomly or alter their perception of where Nyx is. And I like it but I would like it even more if her Defensive ability allowed for movement without the augment. But I do think it should affect her allies as well

On 2018-11-28 at 10:20 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Mind Control:

BEFORE:
Nyx picks a single target within Range and brings them to the Tenno side for a given Duration. The problem this had was the target never really felt... powerful.  

AFTER:
Nyx still picks a single target within Range and brings them to the Tenno side for a given Duration - but now she can multiply the damage output of that enemy by her own hand!!

The target will have a 4-second wind up period to absorb your weapon damage which is on a multiplier to enhance its OUTPUT damage. For example only (numbers not final): every 2500 damage = 1.5x damage output of the target
We've also included better 'follow Nyx' behaviour to have the target stay with her.  

This feels really engaging in practice and adds just a bit more activity to your Nyx play - your targets become more valuable and you get to focus on weapon gameplay in the 4 second window to really pump them up! A Nyx should always choose their victim wisely.

I'm excited to try this new Mind Control out. Hopefully, MC'd targets don't count as enemies during defense/exterminate missions e.e Also hoping the multiplier or damage need to reach said multiplier is not affected by strength but it probably will be. Simply because I never saw Nyx and a Strength type frame, but I'll embrace her nonetheless

Might consider using Frost's Snow Globe during it absorb phase as an example for Mind Control's wind up phase. Every 2500 Damage dealt by enemies/allies = 1x every 2500 dmg dealt by Nyx's weapons = 1.5x or other maths. It makes it more beneficial to apply the damage yourself but also makes it to where it's not mandatory for MC to be effective.

On 2018-11-28 at 10:20 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Psychic Bolts:

BEFORE:
Nyx launches a cluster of force bolts at enemies, using telekinesis to adjust flight paths and seek nearby targets.
The Number of Bolts and Damage dealt, including a Radiation Status chance made up the entirety of this power.t wasn't unique enough and on its own, it didn't offer enough in high level missions.

AFTER:
This is no longer a flat damage ability, but it is now a debuff. All enemies hit lose a % of defenses (values for Shield/Armor have 20/40/60/80% of defenses removed) for a short duration (5/7/9/11 seconds), making them easier to kill / kill each other when combined with Chaos! Infested will receive a slowing behaviour (not on the same % curve as defenses, still tweaking) + deactivation of Ancient's auras.
We will be doing a presentation clean up as well for more of a 'Psychic' feel in the Telekinesis.

Yay!! I gave a suggestion similar to this in regards to shield/armor stripping. So happy to see this change to Psychic Bolts. I am wondering how it will work because currently, PB fires only 6 projectiles at random nearby targets. Now that would be okay if an enemy already affected by bolts when struck again refreshes the duration but also lets out an additional 4 or 6 bolts. Or perhaps a small 3/5 meter AoE that applies the debuff.

Or have the number of bolts fired be affected by duration like Nova's Null Star. Then you can use the first suggestion as an augment.

On 2018-11-28 at 10:20 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Absorb:

BEFORE:
Nyx absorbs all incoming damage and channels that collected energy into an explosive radial discharge that deals Magnetic damage. Magnetic Damage doesn't always perform well, and a single damage type doesn't really feel like an 'Absorb'.

AFTER:
Nyx absorbs all incoming damage and channels that collected energy into an explosive radial discharge - but now we've made the damage type output dynamic based on incoming damage types. If it is fed in, it feeds out!

Absorb is a very unique power - when Augmented it allows for a completely different kind of play. Alone, Absorb gives Nyx immortality in a pinch and can CC with knockdown, but now we've just added another edge in giving it dynamic Damage.        

I honestly love Absorb but please let me move without the augment! I think allowing more movement while channeling Absorb would make her better at her CC/defensive role. At least allow her to jump and roll e.e

I'd love if Absorb had Assimilate already built-in and the augment could be changed to allow Nyx to drop her Absorb like Frost's Snow Globe while letting ally damage in as well as out, or Nova's Molecular Prime. But Absorbing only enemy damage not ally damage because then It would be like Limbo's Rift Stasis before it's rework.

I'm glad Chaos hasn't changed but I do feel like it needs a new augment maybe something like Chaos Energize: % of the damage dealt to enemies under the influence of Chaos is returned to Nyx the in form of energy regeneration kinda like Sharpshooter.

Either way, I am thrilled that she is getting some well-deserved love. Nyx is my absolute favorite frame.... she is literally all play except when I use Rhino to go play in the index. Plus new sound library!!

I. 

CANT. 

WAIT.

>.<

@[DE]Rebecca

Edited by Dranixg0d

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12 hours ago, Ventura_Highway said:

If I understand how this reflect works, Titania gets hit for 100, takes 100 damage, then the enemy gets hit back for 50. Status doesn't get reflected.

This is not apparently useful because in these fights in Warframe, Four Tenno against Hundreds of Enemies, the Hundreds of Enemies have far, far more health than Titania ever will. Compounding this is that an enemy can be replaced but Titania does not have easy access to recovery mechanisms.

But Tribute can be taken by your sqadmates too, so imagine thorns on a tank frame. The problem is that teammates don't bother to take the tribute so often (nearly NEVER), so a good idea would be that if Titania pick up a tribute buff it would be shared with your mates in a certain radius.

Edited by DARKLION98

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12 hours ago, polarity said:

A whole lot of what's wrong with Archwing could be fixed by making it work more like Titania's Razorwing:

  • No flips into walls when you just want to strafe-drift round a corner.
  • No removal of up/down controls when you just want to move faster.

• An actual airbrake.

•  An actually decent Vacuum on the Plains.

• An actual Health Bar that is just reduced by anti-air attacks instantly of instantly being destroyed.

• An actual reason to use the Melee (Titania included).

• An actual reason to use Elyton after Amesha released.

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Can RazorWing augment have the movespeed part active at all times? Also movespeed mods should affect RazorWing if it doesn't already

Nyxes augment Assimilate should also allow to roll like Ivaras stealth.

Edited by AdrianPlayGame

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I‘ll brief

No comments on titania, but those that say nyx rework is great and then continue to make 90% of their post about Titania don’t actually play or care about Nyx

Give Nyxs 2 and/or 3 the ability to prioritize and strip nullifier and ice shield bubbles. These enemies have no hard counter yet.

Increase the amount of bolts drastically AND distribution per enemy or make it AOE. 

Speed up and/or change animations of her 4. they take long. Also Energy drain on damage and please *actually* rework the math behind absorb

Change visuals of enemies affected by her 3 to something less visually obstructing. Same for energy color and absorb bubble on her 4. it’s impossible to see anything on dark maps or night time on POE

for other proposed changes, see posts from people before me with three or more upvotes/likes/applauses/whatever

Rework her augments, every other frame gets a clean upgrade with no downside - nyxs augments are drastically slowing her down or reducing her range. Why tho? Better yet incorporate absorb augment into her regular build 

give her PBR and her deluxe skin some more thicc (!)

Edited by Kasamoto
Sry wasn’t brief - but I really care about the nyxs rework... and this is just disappointing

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13 hours ago, Ventura_Highway said:

If I understand how this reflect works, Titania gets hit for 100, takes 100 damage, then the enemy gets hit back for 50. Status doesn't get reflected.

This is not apparently useful because in these fights in Warframe, Four Tenno against Hundreds of Enemies, the Hundreds of Enemies have far, far more health than Titania ever will. Compounding this is that an enemy can be replaced but Titania does not have easy access to recovery mechanisms.

But Tribute can be picked up by your squadmates too, so imagine Thorns on a tank frame.

The problem is that teammates don't bother to take the tribute so often (nearly NEVER), so a good idea would be that if Titania pick up a tribute buff it would be shared with your mates in a certain radius.

Edited by DARKLION98

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1 minute ago, Kasamoto said:

Give Nyxs 2 and/or 3 the ability to strip nullifier bubbles. These enemies have no hard counter yet.

Then what about Mesa or Revenant?

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23 minutes ago, DARKLION98 said:

But Tribute can be taken by your sqadmates too, so imagine thorns on a tank frame. The problem is that teammates don't bother to take the tribute so often (nearly NEVER), so a good idea would be that if Titania pick up a tribute buff it would be shared with your mates in a certain radius.

That's probably because allies can't pick up Tribute buffs, only Titania can.

Also, Thorns is even more worthless for Tankframes. It's 50% of the damage you take being sent back to enemies. Let's say you take 500 damage. The damage they take is immediately reduced by 50%, so now it's only 250. As someone like Nezha, the damage you take is only 10% of what it should actually be with Warding Halo. So now the enemy only takes 25 damage when they have over 35,000 HP ALONE. Let's not even go into EHP. The damage given back isn't upgraded with Titania's Power Strength, and it's not like it sends the procs either. Hell, it may actually be desirable if you only took 50% of the damage you should have (as long as it could be modded for).

Yet it's not. So it's a completely worthless buff, just like literally every one of her buffs because they don't scale with Power Strength. An accuracy debuff in this game isn't helpful when there are so many bullets flying at you, Companion damage getting a buff doesn't matter when they all are single target based in a horde shooter (or, when they do have AoE, they just aren't strong enough to make that AoE worthwhile), a 25% slow is useless when there are far easier abilities to use that give a far higher slow and redirecting enemy damage only works when the damage you take is sent back with a 6000% multiplicative increase.

Edited by (XB1)Graysmog

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2 minutes ago, DARKLION98 said:

But Tribute can be picked up by your squadmates too, so imagine Thorns on a tank frame.

The problem is that teammates don't bother to take the tribute so often (nearly NEVER), so a good idea would be that if Titania pick up a tribute buff it would be shared with your mates in a certain radius.

It's raw damage tho so it still sucks if it was something like 'true damage' that bypasses all resistances it would be neat or if it would stagger / had impact damage at least 50% of the time it would be godly

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1 hour ago, DARKLION98 said:

..a good idea would be that if Titania pick up a tribute buff it would be shared with your mates in a certain radius.

The Tribute buffs are "auras"; doesn't that mean the whole squad benefits automatically?

EDIT: I checked the wiki; Thorns benefits allies within 35 metres of Titania, and Full Moon within 30 metres.

The whole squad doesn't benefit from the other Tribute buffs (I was confusing the auras with how Aura Mods work. Oops).

Edited by OmegaVoid

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I have played Nyx main, ever since the beginning.

I havent played the game for half a year, but decided to come bk last week with my friend, who often plays dmg frames.

 

These changes are FANTASTIC TO NYX! The only thing i hope is that her Chaos wont be undermined compared to her other abilities now, as to me, Chaos is what makes Nyx. But i dont think it will and i am very excited for these changes and it means i can keep on playing Nyx Prime, as i always have been!

 

Good job

  • Like 1

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So yeah, about Razorwing innate Vacuum, I hope it'll be implemented on archwings too. And about Razor/Archwing Vacuums, can we please have the Ayatan Stars be automatically retrieved? It feels clunky when you're going to take them while in archwing mode.

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I kinda feel that Nyx still needs a little more love.

The change doesnt seem that improved like what the older Saryn got...

Well I might be wrong as I have not seen it in action but I do hope she would get better as I use her quite frequently....

  • Upvote 1

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2 hours ago, Chewarette said:

Mag Bubble => MC => Throw charged Lanka headshots => enjoy the Bombard Lord of Destruction ! 🙂

Boi hopefully they wont cap the dmg. So we can finish boss battle in oneshot

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As someone that loves Nyx, I want to weigh in. The reason Nyx isn't played isn't because Nyx isn't good. Nyx isn't played because the game has no purpose for her. "The best crowd control is dead." is a popular saying that many people agree with. Who needs crowd control when stuff like Mesa, Saryn, and Equinox exist? I personally enjoy a bit more nuance to my gameplay and find Nyx to be extremely satisfying even now. She can easily dunk on most of the game's content with little to no problems. I use her exclusively for bounties in both open areas. This is without using any augments, too.

I should also point out that I play almost entirely solo so some of this might seem abnormal to other players.

The additions to Mind Control sound solid. People argue that shooting your target is silly when you can just shoot enemies. That is a valid argument, however, I see no harm in having this bonus. It's just a bonus and we're playing a game for fun, right?

I don't care what happens to Psychic Bolts as long as the Radiation effect stays. It is already so good and only gets better in open world areas. You can irradiate and control enemies a long ways away! This even works on Nullifiers after their bubbles go back up!

Chaos is fine. I'd prefer to be able to layer it again as before the change/bug/whatever happened a few updates back. I hate resetting the clock on all the enemies and completely removing it from those farther away. It's a mixed bag but I can live with it either way.

The changes to Absorb sound fine, but It won't make me use this ability seriously. I made a thread about this here where I mention things like ragdolling enemies(which someone else mentioned in this thread), giving overshields to friendlies, as well as possibly lowering the energy cost of nearby teammates next cast. Maybe it's silly, but I think this skill is her worst one by a mile. I use it rarely.

Now for the passive. The one suggested to replace the current one is objectively worse. Nyx's current passive is honestly one of the strongest in the game at present. There is junk like "catch on fire to gain energy"(which only really works in Invasions) and "melee strikes may freeze enemies" which are horrible in comparison. Stripping enemies of their weapons entirely makes them considerably easier to manage on a grand scale.The reasoning given was also rather dismissive. "People complained about X so we'll change X". I know that happens sometimes but it's usually for something ridiculous. This current passive is very thematic and effective. I would strongly urge you to keep it as it is, or improve upon it, rather than outright removing it. An enemy can't shoot at all with a gun they don't have.

 

Current Passive

Pros

  • Works at any level.
  • Encourages enemies to group while under the effects of Radiation or Chaos. This lends benefits to your own AoE weapons and weapons with punch-through.
  • Flat out removes dangerous AoE weapons so they cannot be used. Example: Ogris.
  • Removes literally any weapon.
  • Removed weapons can't be used against teammates.
  • Easily verifiable as to whether or not it actually works.

Cons

  • Requires abilities being used to function.
  • Works on RNG.
  • Doesn't work on Infested.
  • Anti-synergy with Mind Control.

New Passive

Pros

  • Works all the time. Doesn't require abilities.

Cons

  • Does not encourage enemy grouping while under the effects of Radiation or Chaos.
  • Leaves dangerous AoE weapons completely functional. If they explode near Nyx, it could still very well kill her. These can also explode near teammates and kill them.
  • The enemies can still shoot because they still have guns.
  • Does not help teammates in any way, shape, or form.
  • Works on RNG.
  • Doesn't work against Infested.
  • Gives less benefit in higher level activities. The sheer volume of projectiles will still have no problem hitting and killing Nyx.
  • Anti-synergy with Absorb. (Edit: Removed as of 12-12-2018)
  • Flat out doesn't exist when using Absorb. (Added: 12-12-2018)
  • Very hard to verify if it's functional, let alone its potency.

I may have forgotten some things here and I'll come back and revise it if I remember them.

In closing I will add this: On the occasion I do ESO(solo), I use Saryn. I run the EMP Aura because the Corpus deal insane damage and every little bit helps. I know people say that literally no one uses this aura, but I do. I can't really tell if it does anything, though. The problem is that if anything hits you at all you're likely dead regardless. Saryn is much tankier than Nyx with defensive skills, too. At lower levels, like many things, it doesn't matter. The sheer volume of projectiles makes accuracy unimportant. Any little thing will destroy you.

Edited by ArcKnight9202
Changed things due to updates to the plans.

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There are a few concerning points such as what Verethragna mentioned here:

14 hours ago, (PS4)The_Verethragna said:

I'm initially curious how Nyx's new passive will work with Absorb.

If the enemies have reduced accuracy, they may not be able to hit the absorb bubble to build your damage.

Also ArcKnight9202's post just above mine covers why the passive ability is a pretty significant change that should be considered carefully (especially if the % chance to miss is not very high). I do however think the change to the 4 is a pretty decent one, it would be a significant improvement if there was a tie into her mind control targets where they would guaranteed shoot the absorb to charge damage. Very important when running solo.

With the release of Revenant being the last straw so to speak Nyx's abilities have been becoming less and less unique in the game. It feels like everything does Nyx's job, and better at that. Just radiation status in itself is about the same effect. Loki and Oberon can proc radiation on a large scale, Nekros can raise enemies as allies, Revenant can make an army that just keeps growing, then of course there's just using any large aoe weapon with radiation or syndicate proc.
 

All these other warframes have a niche that they fill, while also filling Nyx's to a large extent. Revenant seeks to make all enemies minions because they are easier to dispose of with their powers. Put them all to sleep and blow em all up. Loki and Oberon have different different methods such as outright disarming all the enemies or slamming them on the ground. Considering that the mind control niche is Nyx's primary domain she just needs a little something to make it feel like she's still the top of the Psychic power niche in theme. Not more powerful than the other frames.

These changes look awesome and I really appreciate the effort to give these warframes a good revamp. Especially looking forward to Nyx's new power FX I think I heard about.

Edited by Strangeland102
elaboration

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