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[DE]Rebecca

Nyx & Titania Dev Workshop

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It's a fair offering. It doesn't skyrocket these to top tier in my opinion but will make them more enjoyable. Titania's lantern always had an issue with range. I hope that will be tweaked as well so I don't have to always cast 4 times and dump my energy to compensate. Also Nyx absorb change should accept squad damage as well like zephyr's tornados, because I don't know of enemies dealing corrosive or gas. It would be nice if our mind control target works the same exact way. We should be able to pump them up with damage types and not just their crappy form of damage, as that was always the problem with the scaling issue. puncture or tiny amounts of slash alone vs other high levels could never cut it. Please try and test this out as it would make your effort here worth the work you put into it. 

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the new nyx passive will be utterly useless seeing that we have aura's and mods that do the same. I would personally like it if nyx kept her current passive and the radiation damage on her bolts since they disarm enemies when radiation is proced. If anything you should up the percentage chance of disarming enemies when you proc radiation from nyx's abilities. All other changes to nyx however sound pleasing so far but however I am unsure about her 1st and 2nd ability. 

My main worry is, what about nyx's first and second ability augments? her first giving a 200% damage buff to controlled targets and her 2nd cc'ing enemies hit by bolts. will they be nerfed or kept as is or buffed?

As for titania. anything can help her at this point. It's been two years and I still recommend changing the names on her buffs and debuffs or atleast have it toggleable so that one can decide on which they want to acquire from victims.

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43 minutes ago, Doomsknight said:

A friendly reminder that the original Garuda's 4th is such satisfying and beautiful until a bunch of smart arse (who just saw DE showcasing a new frame's ability in Devstream) jump out of nowhere yelling "her 4th suxks / not fun / unstylish, etc" And now DE redesgin her 4th (IMO much worse than the original one) and guess what ? Take a look at the Garuda feedback section, only to find more ppl yelling "Give us the original 4th back !" LMAO 

 So the fact is : PPL indeed can't tell if a change is good or bad by just reading it...(Because they can't tell it even after they watched it and played it lol)

Another fun fact is : Each time DE announced a frame rework, so many "wise veterans" shows up roaring "My fav frame is gonna be ruined / Why change this and that" blah blah blah... A recent example would be Nezha revisit, and despite that people began mourning Nezha already by just reading those changes, the rework turn out to be a great one for those who truly main Nezha

Are you implying people can tell if a change is good or bad by just reading it? If so, that's just silly. :blush:

I'm not denying that there are players who request rather silly things that could potentially ruin a Warframe. They exist, but I'm pretty sure you're talking about a minority there. 

 We're not all incompetent :P 

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Let me quote myself:

On 2018-10-20 at 3:38 PM, V0LK said:

Mind control will never work until DE changes AI of controlled mobs. They shoot too slow, they seek cover, they shoot enemies behind obstacles. Not counting a few eximuses, they are worthless. And they will stay worthless even with damage buff(which must be around 2000% to be relevant) until DE changes AI.

Also it's fun that Titania's laughably useless passive wasn't mentioned.

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18 hours ago, (PS4)The_Verethragna said:

I'm initially curious how Nyx's new passive will work with Absorb.

If the enemies have reduced accuracy, they may not be able to hit the absorb bubble to build your damage.

Never thought of that! Good reading eye there.

Also, since you want people to aim at you while in Absorb, there needs to be a taunt mechanism. A lot of the energy drain are in vain because nothing's shooting at you.

I know you can taunt with the augment and Guardian Derision mod, but the reason you want that augment is to play her as a tank and protect allies from damage. You will rarely use the augment-bubble to make knockdowns or deal damage. That's what you rather want to do in Absorb, which is how a taunt could be useful. You don't want a constant taunt on Assimilate, but you want it on Absorb to lose less energy on waiting for the enemy to hit you.

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I'm amazed by the changes, so far everythin sounds great! Can't wait to play my Titania again!

Her Spellbind could also use some work. When played with a low range build one had to fly directly onto the ground to cast Spellbind, when held down Titania should cast Spellbind directly onto herself, without the need of a surface. Alternatively the cast range could be removed entirely, so you could still buff your teammates from a distance and not have the need to touch the floor.

 

vor 18 Stunden schrieb [DE]Rebecca:

Titania

Tribute:
BEFORE:
Tribute had to be cast multiple times on multiple enemy types to build up 4 unique Auras on Titania. The problem here was... too much casting.
AFTER:
Simply getting 1 type of Tribute will be enough to have its maximum power. You can continue to acquire tributes to refresh the Duration, but you no longer need to build them up.
As for the 4 Tribute types:
Dust - keep as-is:it reduces enemy accuracy by 50%!
Thorns - increase to 50% of damage reflected back to the attacker!
Entangle - keep as-is: one Entangle tribute slows an enemy by 25%!
Fullmoon - the 75% damage buff now applies to ALL (Sentinels, Moas, Companions)  + Razorwing Butterflies

For her Tribute I'd like to throw in an idea:

Tribute should be an AoE spell around Titania instead of a directed single target spell. Having all souls placed around you and parcour/steer through them sounds like a fun activity.

I'd also like the icons above their head to be more distinct, or colored. When playing Titania I never knew which soul was which buff. I gust gathered them.

 

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15 hours ago, myuushii said:

Lol what. She's already at the lowest of bottoms.

Just because you don't know how to mod or play certain frames doesn't mean they are "lowest of bottoms".

Chances are your skills are just lacking.

Edited by Lythael
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chaos aug (chaos sphere) needs to change: it's not a sphere, it's a tiny band which can be easily evaded(gara has better wall), also it should be an area of effect, enemies spawn/get inside the aoe should be affected as well, it should not be exclusive to enemies touching the band.

the band shouldn't shrink, or at least has the full duration as chaos

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I enjoy playing Titania but I almost never take her on mission. I have a bunch of frames that can do the job better so it will be great to see her reworked.

I'd like to see Titania be made really useful for Orb Vallis. Her abilities need to work for groups of enemies teleporting & dropping in in small clusters. After her questline, I think it would be appropriate that she would be great for Cetus & the Vallis.

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TITANIA:

PASSIVE: current passive is crappy and does not work in Razorwing mode. needs a new one.

RAZORFLY EGGS: Killing an enemy with melee, in Warframe or Razorwing mode, creates an egg in the corpse. If a Razorfly drone dies, the egg hatches, replenishing the Razorflies. Eggs lasts for 30 seconds, and there may be up to 6 eggs at any time. Eggs need at least 6 seconds to mature before they hatch. They start maturing as soon as they are created, but only hatch if razorfly count is not maxed out. Titania may have one Razorfly around her active at all times.

TRIBUTE:

DUST: Becomes DUST DECOY. as an accuracy debuff, should create a static copy of Titania every second, at the position and pose she is. each new copy dispells the oldest one. Would give enemies another target, reducing the change they will target the real Titania. Advantage: works on enemies at any range. May stack up to 4 times.

THORNS: Damage reflection should happen before armor reduces damage. Should reduce incoming damage by 50% as well.

ENTANGLE: Add effect: Enemies hit by status procs from Titania's attacks at any distance also get entangle stacks.

FULLMOON: a-OK.

LANTERN
Add effect:

Bullet Jumping or Afterburning through a Lantern will "pick it up", tethering it to any Warframe or Titania in Razorwing, or Archwing, or K-drive. Any melee attack un-tethers the Lantern from the Warframe/Archwing/K-drive.

RAZORWING: a-OK.

TITANIA's WEAPONS:

If no secondary or melee is equipped, Titania may use her innate weapons in Warframe mode.  

 

 

 


 

Edited by BrazilianJoe
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So I've been thinking about my problem with Psychic Bolts' delivery method.

Would changing Psychic Bolts' delivery method to use Garuda's Seeking Talons,
either at the Natural Talent sped-up speed - due to not having her defenses, or affected by Range - for a larger starting area,
be a good thing?

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DE, can you make the turrets not target her while in the Plains? It's incredibly annoying when just get one-shot out of nowhere.

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37 minutes ago, Lythael said:

Just because you don't know how to mod or play certain frames doesn't mean they are "lowest of bottoms".

Chances are your skills are just lacking.

The classic strawman. Not interested.

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1 hour ago, Dark_Chroma_Prime said:

So a A+ band-aid rework for Nyx and a F band-aid for Titania....

This ^

I'm gonna be honest here, the so-called "Rework" is very lack-lustre and adds nothing to their kits, simple buffs and nerfs won't make anyone pick up the frames again, every other frame can do what Nyx and Titania better. I'll share my own ideas later, but for now just to get this point across, I doute any more changes will be done to them and they will remain as MR Fodder, but alteast its a start.

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Titania's animations are a massive problem too.

She's too squishy to excuse all of her skills making her stop and go through a ~1 second cast time in combat. Especially when those skills are borderline useless like her first ability and Lantern.

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20 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Nyx

New Passive: Enemies can't seem to truly target Nyx and all receive an accuracy debuff against her.

This is "somewhat" counter-productive to Nyx's Ultimate Absorb. I would say her Passive should be something that boosts her damage or converts damage recieved into energy (a passive Rage essentially) as this would synergize well with the drain her kit places on her energy.

20 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Mind Control:

BEFORE:
Nyx picks a single target within Range and brings them to the Tenno side for a given Duration. The problem this had was the target never really felt... powerful.  

AFTER:
Nyx still picks a single target within Range and brings them to the Tenno side for a given Duration - but now she can multiply the damage output of that enemy by her own hand!!

The target will have a 4-second wind up period to absorb your weapon damage which is on a multiplier to enhance its OUTPUT damage. For example only (numbers not final): every 2500 damage = 1.5x damage output of the target
We've also included better 'follow Nyx' behaviour to have the target stay with her.  

This feels really engaging in practice and adds just a bit more activity to your Nyx play - your targets become more valuable and you get to focus on weapon gameplay in the 4 second window to really pump them up! A Nyx should always choose their victim wisely. 

While this is an improvement. Even with the Augment the damage boost feels like it needs to be increased. Currently it still will be lackluster at later levels.

I found that I gave up on this ability (current edition) early game. Just wasn't worth it when a regular bullet does the job better. Additionally this change doesn't make me feel like using it either.

The enemy damage needs to be like a Companions once Mind Controlled or be linked to Nyx's overall max damage/ability strength value once linked.

Once charmed an enemy should become a threat that makes other enemies want to target it & not just brush off its spitballs.

20 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Psychic Bolts:

BEFORE:
Nyx launches a cluster of force bolts at enemies, using telekinesis to adjust flight paths and seek nearby targets.
The Number of Bolts and Damage dealt, including a Radiation Status chance made up the entirety of this power.t wasn't unique enough and on its own, it didn't offer enough in high level missions.

AFTER:
This is no longer a flat damage ability, but it is now a debuff. All enemies hit lose a % of defenses (values for Shield/Armor have 20/40/60/80% of defenses removed) for a short duration (5/7/9/11 seconds), making them easier to kill / kill each other when combined with Chaos! Infested will receive a slowing behaviour (not on the same % curve as defenses, still tweaking) + deactivation of Ancient's auras.
We will be doing a presentation clean up as well for more of a 'Psychic' feel in the Telekinesis. 

👍

20 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Absorb:

BEFORE:
Nyx absorbs all incoming damage and channels that collected energy into an explosive radial discharge that deals Magnetic damage. Magnetic Damage doesn't always perform well, and a single damage type doesn't really feel like an 'Absorb'.

AFTER:
Nyx absorbs all incoming damage and channels that collected energy into an explosive radial discharge - but now we've made the damage type output dynamic based on incoming damage types. If it is fed in, it feeds out!

Absorb is a very unique power - when Augmented it allows for a completely different kind of play. Alone, Absorb gives Nyx immortality in a pinch and can CC with knockdown, but now we've just added another edge in giving it dynamic Damage. 

I want to make 1 change...

A significant percentage of all damage absorbed should be converted into energy. This allows Nyx to use her signature ability longer, with better effectiveness, and allows it to remain worthwhile as enemies grow in power. As many posters have mentioned...the ability phases out at high level gameplay due to how energy gets drained by the damage absorbed. Its caps out very early.

Chaos didn't get mentioned. But confusion doesn't do much. It needs to become some form of true debuff.

Titania

She needs a 100% rework. Not a tune-up.

I apologize for sounding rude or venomous but Titania even with the suggested changes is 100% not interesting or worth bringing to a mission unless the player wants to have a bad time. She died protecting the Silver Grove for a reason...and it's because she was a poorly designed Warframe.

I admit, I'm at a loss for how to fix her though.

Edited by (PS4)Zero_029
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1 hour ago, myuushii said:

The classic strawman. Not interested.

Don't start it then.

Titania was never bad as i said. 

She has decent survivability , her exalted guns hit as hard as Mesa's Peacemaker , decent crowd control and mobility. (granted all of that if you know how to mod her properly)

Just because a frame isn't press one button over and over to win doesn't mean its a bad frame. I used her on Sorties and high level Bounties with great results. She's one of my favorite frames, sure there are better ones but she is certainly not "lowest of bottoms" holds her own just fine.

 

If they going to improve her even further to be more accessible and appeal to more hmmm... casual types of players.

Give her new passive and tweak her CC/Buffing abilities to be even more effective.

Then all power to them just don't ruin her DE, please.

Edited by Lythael
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21 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Lantern:

BEFORE:
Lantern was a single-target ability that could result in wildly bouncing enemies making it hard to achieve the core function of attracting witless enemies.  

AFTER:
Lantern can now be cast on up to 4 targets with better 'tethered' victims. You will be able to 'explode' all targets.

Please, please, make the enemies, with Lantern on them, stay in place. 1, 4, 1000 emenies, with lantern on them, are useless unless they stay in place to attract the enemies. Its ridiculously often that some aoe or other explosion makes them fly off into space. I love the idea of shooting them into enemies, but its not really workable. Or, just put a height cap on them. Best of both worlds. 

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Nyx's new 'suggested' passive seems to have the same problem as before; i.e. not fitting her kit. 

Before: Disarming enemies meant they would take longer to kill one-another (as it took long enough already)

After: Enemies' inaccuracy would inadvertently make Absorb less powerful. ... Granted in a previous "Devstream" [DE]Rebecca mentioned her passive would be turned off during Absorb, but that wouldn't be consistent with it being a "Passive."        ...     (plus it just sounds weak... sorry)

My Suggestion?: [amongst the millions on this and other forums]: Why not make it work similar to Banshee's?   Her passive deafens enemies to anything she does or uses, but not to the dying screams of their allies. 

Nyx could simply go unseen by enemies throughout a level... UNLESS:

  1. She stands too close to an enemy, or brushes up against them.
  2. Like banshee, She can't mute an enemy when she kills them; thus any alerted enemy would begin to actually "look for her" making it harder for her passive to work. 
  3. She's in a BIGASS LOUD AS HELL bubble that every enemy just gotta Shoot! ...

Additional Suggestion: Make her Absorb ability draw in more 'agro.'

 This would be consistent because now she's actually looking to grab attention and fire away from allies, objectives, etc... along with making her passive more Dynamic! 

Also, (again, I'm sorry) Causing her enemies to be "Inaccurate" just doesn't feel powerful, it feels cheap. If she's supposed to be the "Jean Grey" of warframe and be telepathic, she needs to be able to force her will onto others. 

Main point: Her "will" or "passive" needs to be noticeable, fit snuggly into her kit, and be entirely hers. 

A passive needs to be an integral part of a Warframe's kit. Not an ad-on.      So with that in mind:

  1. With my suggested passive her Mind Controlled target would gain all the attention.
  2. Psychic Bolts wouldn't necessarily draw attention to her, But that depends on what it turns into. (Current game logic dictates that removing an enemy’s weapon isn’t a cause for alarm, but damaging them is)
  3. Everyone gets their wish and Chaos would draw enemy fire to 'each other' instead of her.... UNLESS: [see list above]     
Edited by (PS4)CafeBarman7503
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Interested to try out the titania changes but im a little skeptical that they dont do quite enough to fix some core issues.  

1. Cast times and animations: she has very long cast times for how few defenses she actually has other than an accuracy debuff.  This means you dont want to cast your abilities in fights which limits your choices if youre in a heated battle.  She also gets knocked around extremely easily in the air by arson eximi or other displacements and takes forever to recover which further drains your energy while you wait it out. 

2. Energy costs. These seem rather expensive given the need to frequently cast to stay alive while also trying to maintain enough for razorwing to be effective (which lets face it is why people want to play her), it also feels like razorwing itself ramps in energy cost rather too quickly forcing you to not be a fairy as often which is sad.  

3. Ineffective cc.  Assuming lantern still can float off randomly when shot,  even when it may only be a little depending on these changes negates its effectiveness at what it does since once out of range charmed enemies go back to what they were doing.  Maybe tether it in place,  only letting it move maybe 10 or so meters from original position,  that way you can actually defend with it

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I find disarm more valuable than dodge chance, survive ability wise. If you disarm, enemy has no way of killing you with one shot. Dodge is a gamble. They dodged their shots? Cool, you are alive, but if a high level corpus lands that one shot, "u ded boi". Remove that "feature" that removes disarm on enemies that are affected by 'Mind Control'. Also disarm passive won't have a good synergy with her new abilities. As they will require enemy to shoot.

Also while Nyx consuming bullets/energy from enemy shots, not stop them like Neo did in matrix :D, how is that returning damage is the same that was shot. (it is just a thought about theme and lore :P)

Edited by Agatorion
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passive: mentioned that i think her intended, new passive is not better at all and actually not needed on a frame which is supposed to have lots of CC/aggro diversion and invincibility...

mind control: would be really nice if we could give the mind controlled enemy commands so that it really is a mind CONTROL. these enemies are just too random to matter, no matter what dmg buff they receive.

psychic bolts: sounds good. have to see for details after the update but sounds fine to me.

chaos: chaos needed something more than just a non-radiation radiation procc.

assimilate: have to wait and see how hard assimilate gets "buffed" concerning dmg.

overall not too excited, sadly. i really like nyx and shes amongst those frames i regularly pick, aside the exceptional usage of saryn, so it kind of pains me a bit that i cant get excited about these announced changes.

since i neither care nor really play titania a lot, all i can say is that these "buffs" sound like bare bones to me and wouldnt make me play her. i wouldnt even try her out again like this.

Edited by Xydeth
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