Nyx & Titania Dev Workshop

[JaycemeSwain]

These Nyx changes feel interesting. However, the same can't be said for titania. Like what people have said with tribute, the buffs should be overhauled. The Vacuum on Razerwing is good, but it'd be nice if her other abilities had a reduction in cost when in razerwing, to opt people in using them instead of just using razerwing and letting the butterflies and your guns do all the damage.

[ljmadruga]

With regards to Nyx, I’d like to see the damage multiplier be applied to targets affected by chaos while MC and Chaos are active so that they take increased damage from all sources. Combined with PB and Absorb, it makes for terrific synergy between the two abilities.

[Synpai]

Titania is still incredibly lacking in comparison. You're still keeping the 4 "RNG" (based on enemies so you may get the buff, you may not) when only one of them are really useful: Dust (full moon...is okay but the flies die so quickly it'll hardly matter later on). Is it really worth having all the variation if there aren't really valuable choices? 

I'd be A-OK if the buff did something more consistent otherwise energy is better off being used in Razorwing or CC.

 

Titania's passive still Ill-reflects how players have to play her (Razorwing or death). In conjunction with her parkour speed it'd be nice to have her casting speed/costs reduced while air borne since the casting speed change at least seems to be true for razorwing.

But there are so many problems still left unnoticed:

• How the razorflies die quickly and have no return method.
• How titania's method of survival and damage make her a poor caster (since you have to use most of your energy staying in Razorwing)
• Diwata has no purpose due to how evasion currently functions
• No ability synergy 
• No use of operator
• Lantern and spellbind competing in use against enemies (though spellbind offers status immunity on the ally side)

 

As of 1/22/2020 I'm editing the below to match changes/upcoming changes that have occurred just as an easy point of reference, but the above will be left unchanged :D.

 

On 2018-11-28 at 1:56 PM, Synpai said:

Overall Gripes:

• Lack of companion buffs in Razorwing (Kavats)
• Lack of environment interaction (consoles and such) The operator change solves this to some extent
• Lack of Operator interactions
• No energy refund or sustain mechanics; Making the other abilities plausible or WORTH casting when Razorwing is active even beyond Razorwing blitz

 

Passive: 

• There's an issue with the trampoline portion of this ability not being useful in Razorwing, which is very much her bread and butter currently. I think simply giving her increased cast speed (possibly other buffs) while airborne is a good addition to her passive, since the casting speed at least is the case for Razorwing already(dear god, never try to cast that on the ground lol).
• There's also the possibility to tie her passive into Razorflies, like granting evasion or damage reduction per razorfly (to a cap), so that Razorflies are always around, but casting Razorwing applies a substantial buff to them/doubles the count.
  • Making her passive Razorfly based, could at least remove the reliance on Razorwing for survivability

Ability 1 (Spellbind): 

Make this ability "suspend" enemies; Many of the changes have worked to improve this, but I feel enemies can still get pretty floaty

1. This ability should be the one to lift enemies in place closer to Magus Lockdown.
   • The damage that magus lockdown does isn't necessary, but it's an interesting thought that could add even more value to this so long as the scaling is kept in check to not be too crazy
2. Also increase cast distance/ affect range in razor wing would be GREAT

Ability 2 (Tribute):

1. "RNG" buffs are poor abilities, even if you reduce it to two enemy types there's no way to choose one over the other  Upcoming changes should fix this
2. As a frame that seems to lean toward distanced gameplay....you have to run into these to get the buff (5 times to cap the buff)..it still baffles me to this day  Previous changes fixed this

I would prefer the "souls" tribute makes to be an extra target that allows Titania to deal a portion of damage to all targets affected by spellbind in range. In other words, Tribute could split a portion of an enemies Health and armor as a spirit that can be damaged (Dex Pixia/Diwata deal full damage to this target) and when the spirit dies it explodes to debuff the enemies and buff allies:

• Players can use this as a target for spellbind to affect a slightly larger radius around the spirit
• When the tribute soul is killed: Enemies in range or linked via spellbind are affected by a status explosion (cold at base) that could change if the tribute target was affected by spellbind (adds blast), lantern (adds radiation), or both.
• Allies get buffed whether they are in range of the spirit or Titania; Titania gets the buff regardless of range and spawns more Razorflies (to a cap). The buff in this case could be energy/health regeneration, survivability via DR/evasion, infinite ammo briefly, just about anything will do

***NOTE: it's possible for [DE] to give her multiple tribute buffs on a cycle like Ivara's Quiver, but they would have to be significantly better than what tribute currently offers

Ability 3 (Lantern):

• It's probably for the best that this just be a placement, like a floating orb decoy rather than using the enemies body.
• I feel that this should have an increased effect radius when affected by spellbind.

Ability 4 (Razorwing):

I think most of the problems with this ability were hit already. Diwata and razorfly durability are probably the biggest outliers in the current state of Titania.

• Razorflies should scale with Titania's stats and power strength (and also respawn)
  • More respawn synergies are welcomed, durability is still an issue
• Slamming into floors to get pickups is a little clunky, a minor vacuum would do wonders.
• Diwata...needs a purpose more than a buff, due to the nature of evasion. Even if it was a strong melee, Titania's playstyle clashes HARD.
  • It's possible to make tribute give her unlimited ammo (briefly) or survivability (either true evasion or DR) when destroyed with Dex Pixia and Diwata respectively.

 

 

[Xzorn]

Shameless re-post

• Her new passive isn't really better.
• You added pet leashing which is good.
• Psychic Bolts augment needs to be fixed.
• Chaos Sphere augment needs total rework.

Rather extensive post about Nyx and more info on her current state with concepts to improve in the post.

I have credentials on this frame. Please at least read and thanks.

EDIT:  Made a video to illustrate why her Disarm passive is better than the proposed one.

Spoiler

 

 

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

Yes, Titania is getting some love! Casting Tribute once to get the full buff is going to be wonderful. I'm probably in the minority that like the buffs as-is but that's a good change for her otherwise.

[Hanayama_San]

both of them still look weak even with these changes... i hoped for more to be honest here

[-W0lf-]

Good

[BeeWhyOhBee]

OMG I WANT THAT NYX NOW ❤️ YESSS

[MrTitan123]

Personally, I like the nyx changes, but I do have some issues.

1. Mind control targets, even with upgraded pathing and A.I, are not very smart. With enemies everywhere, it’s unlikely that enemies will target the MC victim instead of anything else. Considering that they will have new “follow the player” behavior, that paints an even bigger bullseye on your back. I suggest making her target run around and attack, and even force aggro if it is a “strong” unit like an eximus unit. So, have it run around on its own in combat, and then follow nyx outside of it, so you have an opportunity to work from outside the line of fire.

2. You might want to put a bigger damage multiplier. 1.5x damage ain’t gonna cut it for long. Enemies have armor along with increased damage the higher the level goes, but when that damage from enemies is pit against itself, nothing really happens. I know the new debuff is going to decrease armor and shields, and that’s great and all, but if your minion can’t kill the enemies it’s been turned against, then it becomes useless. I would also suggest that if you implement drawing aggro, that enemies contribute to your minion’s damage. While nyx wouldn’t be able to increase its damage anymore, the minion just doing its job would.

Or, to put that all simply:

 Minion gets mind controlled -> Minion attacks things -> Minion draws attention -> Minion takes more damage -> Minion damage increases -> Minion kills everything -> Duration ends and minion dies because of the massive amount of damage it had stored -> Rinse and repeat -> Grofit

[EchoesOfRain]

DAMAGE REFLECTION IS BAD

Even if it was 100% damage reflection, due to how enemies scale, it would still be useless. Titania is a squishy frame, taking damage is BAD for her. If it was 50% damage reduction it would be more acceptable

 

Can we also address Titanias abysmal cast times and energy pool?

[Connox]

those nyx changes sound good

one question though will the defense reduction from the psychic bolts be affected by power strength?

 

[(PSN)OriginalEquinox]

I only use Titania for her 4 so I love the vaccum buff, been asking that forever.

Nyx's mind control is a really good improvement but since we can buff our victims our selves that would make her Mindfreak mod useless, so maybe add a mod that let's us control our targets similar to spectres and get them to hold position and such? Or make that part of the ability idk.

Also her 4 getting the return to sender treatment is great, at high levels you could spend hours absorbing and the blast would barely tickle enemies.

[DingusGinger]

I absolutely love Nyx and this new update will be great for her! But I also believe with her Absord it should Agro the enemies within range of her, depending on her 3rd abilites range or half it. 

 

Edit: As for Titania I've been playing her a lot lately and it truly be razorwing or die kinda of situations. When in razor wring her butterflies and guns are the only things to be able to do damage while her pixie sword has a decent amount of damage on it when built right, it doesn't scale after levels 60 as for her guns can easily take down levels 125 within about 4 seconds more or less depending of the build. She needs survivability somehow or in someway that isn't just in her ult otherwise she'll always be squashed like a bug under a grineers boot.

[xcenic]

39 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Dust - keep as-is:it reduces enemy accuracy by 50%!

Thorns - increase to 50% of damage reflected back to the attacker!

1. Moas have 150% accuracy? since the seen to never miss me or miss my pixies at all. Is just stupid how enemies can hit that fast moving tiny dot.

2. In a game where enemies have 30,000 HP, and Warframes have 1200. In a game where enemies do 150-300 damage max per shot, were reflecting 75 damage back against a 20,000 - 30,000 Hp Pool. Seen pretty Logic.

returning back to one corrupted bombard 50% of the 1200 damage they can dish, let me see 600 of damage? 

Titania needs evasion, needs defense, needs more base energy, we dont wanna get hit! were a butterfly against guns. Titania dont needs reflection on damage.

[(PSN)NemitheNem]

I do not like how psychic bolts is time limited--corrosive and shattering impact are forever after all. 

Titania needs higher base energy, but I do like the proposed changes to tribute. However, the buff should be random instead of tied to enemy types. Percentage of time left on a buff should be subtracted from the chance to get that buff in next cast. This way titania can rack up all her buffs without having to hunt down the right enemy

[PrincessMittens]

I'm honestly not impressed. You guys are limiting yourselves here by refusing to try newer abilities. I understand the whole "if it ain't broke don't fix it" approach to old ability types, but for 2 of the worst frames in the game right now... they need proper reworks. 

So here's my issues with each of them:

Nyx:
1) Mind Control still relies on bad AI. Just because they stay near you does not make the ability better, nor does being able to buff them make it any better. If anything, her 1 should be a buff to allies. Like, imagine a Nyx giving her "mental strength" to allies for a duration. I'd rather have an ability to buff allies than an ability to buff an unreliable controlled enemy.
2) Psychic Bolts has promise but really strongly relies on numbers. In my opinion, at around ~185% Power Strength, it should remove armor/shields by 100%. Otherwise, nothing to note here.
3) Chaos isn't getting any changes? Even though enemies can still go out of their way to attack you??? Missed opportunity. A really big shame. 
4) Absorb needs to be scrapped entirely. Either that, or have Assimilate built-in and have the augment do something else. I think you should have something like the Moa precept that has an AOE that slows enemy bullets and such, and still offer her a good way to tank like Assimilate provides. Also this doesn't solve the issue of teammates griefing you and deleting all your energy with 2 Tigris shots. 😕 
Passive) This could be good... if enemy accuracy didn't scale with level, and scale over 100%. I would think more about this one tbh.

Titania:
1) No Spellbind changes..? Sure I guess. Maybe increase the cast speed?
2) Tribute is just... awful. There's nothing you can salvage here. Much like Nyx, it should just be a straight buff to your allies... only in this context, it should be ONE really good buff, not FOUR bad buffs. Your reliance on keeping this ability as similar as it is will ultimately kill this ability, and Titania will still be one of the worst frames. 😕 
3) Lantern changes are good. Having a way to have multiple distractions for enemies, and a way to explode the lanterns is a really solid buff. I just hope the explosions deal good damage.
4) ...No Razorwing changes? As happy as I am that you guys are finally giving her vacuum in her razorwing, that doesn't just "cure" all the other issues. Much like with Nyx's proposed new passive, the evasion that's built-in does not work for enemies after a high enough level. Enemy accuracy can scale over 100%. Razorwing also needs a damage boost for the butterflies as well. Then there's the issue of needing to forma TWO weapons for one frame. Titania is the most forma-expensive frame in the game, because you not only have to forma her, you have to forma her weapons too since **Forma for SOME reason doesn't let you polarize the frame AND their exalted weapons.** That's more a general complaint for exalted frames, but for her it's twofold. 
Passive) I mean... it works? It does what it needs to do, so I can't really complain. 

Overall: 
I'm incredibly disappointed by what you've presented to us. I think you guys should slow down, and think more on the frames themselves and give them proper reworks with newer functioning abilities and not just rehashing what's already broken. I don't mean to be vile, but we've waited a long time for these reworks, may as well make them the best they can be yes? 

[ThreadSpool]

I'm still a little iffy on Nyx's Absorb. The trouble with it is: the more damage it soaks up, the more energy is used. At higher levels it's nearly useless because depending on your maximum energy, it'll cap out at around 34k damage (that can and will be mitigated by defences, so it doesn't even kill anything). Since the incoming damage is so high, your energy is drained to zero pretty much immediately, and you're locked into the explosion animation while you have no energy and no invulnerability, and for what? A knockdown?

Absorb was never a useful ability before, and even with this dynamic damage change, it'll remain incredibly niche if not still useless.

[KesslerCOIL]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)The_Verethragna said:

I'm initially curious how Nyx's new passive will work with Absorb.

If the enemies have reduced accuracy, they may not be able to hit the absorb bubble to build your damage.

generally accuracy reduction wont make them fire that far off and the absorb sphere is large enough to compensate for that in most cases.

[myuushii]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)The_Verethragna said:

I'm initially curious how Nyx's new passive will work with Absorb.

If the enemies have reduced accuracy, they may not be able to hit the absorb bubble to build your damage.

I doubt the bubble will still do any significant damage so it's still a not die button more than anything. The accuracy debuff shouldn't make them shoot into nirvana anyway, it's basically Mirage's 1.

[deluxejoe4]

37 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Thorns - increase to 50% of damage reflected back to the attacker!

So this seems pretty useless, since her other abilities are designed to make her harder to hit, and 50% damage is very little. What if instead, this buff summoned 1 additional razorfly?

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Razorwing needs to be considered in the air.. so aviator is viable.

 

Otherwise, so looking fwd to these changes especially for nyx!

[Kadessa]

Quote

AFTER:
Razorwing will simply receive a Vacuum to make acquiring loot, energy, etc easier. Remember - less of a hassle!

thank you

[NIkuno]

34 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

These changes have felt pretty great in early testing, but of course are subject to change. If you've been watching our streams you may know most of this already, but we wanted to write it out for everyone to check out! Stay tuned to Fortuna: Part II notes for full information on Nyx and Titania!

Since the workshop is now present, would it be safe to say that we can see these changes "soon"? I am pretty excited for the new support play with these frames.

33 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

and hopefully a certain engineer will be next 👀

One more vote for this. His kit... feels sort of lacking with all the shiney new things we have gotten recently, this workshop included.

[(PSN)OmegaSlayer]

I think both reworks are on the right direction but not totally on point, but I'm sure stuff will be tweaked.

On a side note, please take the chance to give Nyx and her helmets the PBR treatment

[myuushii]

7 minutes ago, MrTitan123 said:

Personally, I like the nyx changes, but I do have some issues.

1. Mind control targets, even with upgraded pathing and A.I, are not very smart. With enemies everywhere, it’s unlikely that enemies will target the MC victim instead of anything else. Considering that they will have new “follow the player” behavior, that paints an even bigger bullseye on your back. I suggest making her target run around and attack, and even force aggro if it is a “strong” unit like an eximus unit. So, have it run around on its own in combat, and then follow nyx outside of it, so you have an opportunity to work from outside the line of fire.

2. You might want to put a bigger damage multiplier. 1.5x damage ain’t gonna cut it for long. Enemies have armor along with increased damage the higher the level goes, but when that damage from enemies is pit against itself, nothing really happens. I know the new debuff is going to decrease armor and shields, and that’s great and all, but if your minion can’t kill the enemies it’s been turned against, then it becomes useless. I would also suggest that if you implement drawing aggro, that enemies contribute to your minion’s damage. While nyx wouldn’t be able to increase its damage anymore, the minion just doing its job would.

Or, to put that all simply:

 Minion gets mind controlled -> Minion attacks things -> Minion draws attention -> Minion takes more damage -> Minion damage increases -> Minion kills everything -> Duration ends and minion dies because of the massive amount of damage it had stored -> Rinse and repeat -> Grofit

You shoot with your weapon and it takes its damage not the damage from enemies shooting it. The damage multiplier is taking your damage and buffing it even further. That's theoretically insane dmg for a 1 ability. Granted it's just a dumb AI companion but still.