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[DE]Rebecca

Nyx & Titania Dev Workshop

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On 2018-11-28 at 1:20 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Lantern:

BEFORE:
Lantern was a single-target ability that could result in wildly bouncing enemies making it hard to achieve the core function of attracting witless enemies.  

AFTER:
Lantern can now be cast on up to 4 targets with better 'tethered' victims. You will be able to 'explode' all targets by holding the Lantern cast.

I just wanna say, I think I've been a bit of an idiot here, and I think a lot of people are misunderstanding this.
Before, Lantern would result in wildly bouncing enemies making it hard to actually attract enemies.

After, lantern has better 'tethered' victims.

I interpreted this at first as the lantern tethering the ones attracted to it... I'd love it if @[DE]Rebecca could confirm, but it sounds like we're getting what we asked for in a lantern that doesn't fly off into the stratosphere.

I still personally think Tribute needs a complete overhaul for me to consider it even slightly worth using, and we still need a way to regenerate or scale our razorflies.  We already have enemies that cap the amount of damage they can take per hit (most notably nullifier bubbles), maybe razorflies could do the same?

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I think nyx is still weak and useless even after this rework.

there are no synergy of abilities

mind control can affect just only 1 target,with small damage bonus

no change about chaos

absorb’s change is only damage type

 

these are not enough.

for example,i think mind control can be used 3 enemies, absorb is more interesting and strong to change with growing critical and status chance by incoming dameges

i’m sorry to say, nyx is boring and weak warframe now in my opinion

please think about her seriously more

 

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Maybe I should give my opinion regarding the changes

Nyx:

Mind Control: Okay, the absorption phase only gives a damage multiplier. That made more sense than my impression that we'll actually be giving our weapon damage to the Mind Control target. I want to see and playtest the actual multiplier before giving further judgement, but so far sounds kind of reasonable.

Psychic Bolt: While the de-buff sounds a bit nice, I'm worried that since the bolts only hit a few targets it will become not that useful. Further complicating matters is the finicky targeting of the ability, which may make it hard to hit the desired target. Perhaps make it a cone-shaped area of effect cast?

Absorb: Dynamic damage type does sound nice. Does it absorb every damage type that is dealt per shot or only the highest number type of each shot, akin to Adaptation? It it's the first, it maybe has potential. I may need to see the actual change first.

 

Titania:

Tribute: Not needing to cast multiple times for the full benefit is very welcomed, though I still have my doubts about how we obtain the buff itself. Currently, we need to go over the souls that are extracted from each enemies. But Titania can't exactly go into the middle of the enemies. Can we have the souls float over to Titania or are there plans for allies to be able to pick up the buff as well? The nature of the buffs itself are also something I want to ask. I'll try to outline my thoughts for each type.

  • Dust: Accuracy debuff sound fun on paper, but hard to use in practice. Seeing the enemies kept on missing you could be amusing, but essentially relying on RNG for survival is not that good, especially if it's just a 50/50 chance. Maybe increase the percentage to 70% or more?
  • Thorns: Damage reflections have so far been proven unreliable here in Warframe. Even with 100% damage redirection (see what happened when Chaos is used), it will take the enemies some time to kill themselves, even without Armor. Maybe if it came with a Damage reduction to the Frames with the same percentage value, it could be used as a survival tool.
  • Entangle: Not much comment. I can understand not wanting the enemies to be completely neutered with just a passive.
  • Fullmoon: Companion damage have been rather lackluster, in the beast due to AI problems and Sentinels due too low overall damage. Razorwing butterflies also can't deal that much damage outside of Starchart level. Can I ask for this buff to give extra health/armor and shield as well?

Lantern: I sure hope by "tethered" means that the Lantern won't fly off into the horizon anymore. And I sure hope the charm effect is also optimized so that the enemies are actually charmed and not occasionally shoot you. Giving us the ability to have 4 Lantern is nice.

Razorwing: Vacuum on Razorwing is welocmed, we don't have to scrape the ground every time we want to pick something up. But I noticed there's lack of mention for Diwata. The Melee felt really underwhelming compared to Dex Pixia, which is included in the same package. Or is Diwata tweak also bundled with the melee rework?

Edited by Gamma745
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19 hours ago, Oblivire said:

My idea encourages the flying around like a pixie, and it does not touch her original 4th ability.  Our ideas are not combative against eachother.  It simply would make her passive far more useful than it currently is.  It would be that she is more of a control character while in it, and more damaging when using her 4th ability.  The 70% damage reduction was so that you wouldn't simply use Ignis or a different strong weapon while flying around, and instead need to either use her 4, because Ignis or such would make it useless to ever use it, or leave the passive to regain full damage.  It would, however, not touch status procs, so you could use those on her weapons to be the tricky fae I like to think she is meant to be.

Yeah, but here's the thing buddy. This is a community game, and I think I speak for the majority of us when I say that you're the only person who wants this. Interesting concept, but I concur with @GideonWilhelm that is going to put far more people off of ever touching Titania than it will provide incentive to use her.

As for the Ignis making the Dex Pixia obsolete? Think again. Ignis can't even hope to match the Dex Pixia's raw DPS and range. Maybe in star chart and some sorties with closed tilesets, sure, Ignis has sufficient firepower to render the Dex Pixia unnecessary; but there is a sizable community of players who don't pull out at enemy level 100, and everything you're suggesting would make Titania so incredibly less attractive to these players.

Titania has DPS, and we want her to able to use it more effectively in lategame, where that level of firepower is absolutely necessary to maintain progressive TTK. As for everyone who doesn't play endless? Well you get yourself a double dose of overkill every time you trigger Razorwing, and that power high greatly appeals to those types of players.

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I have an idea.  I understand that her 1 and 3 are extremely similar, but if we wanna stick to a smaller scope with changes, let's take a look at what could be fixed about Tribute.  Bear in mind that as with my previous rework proposal, I'm going to try not to stray too terribly far from what Tribute already does.  I also won't really be poking the durations since I'm not knowledgeable enough to really fiddle with that.

First off, the way you actually use it:

BEFORE

you have to fly into danger to pick up the soul of the enemy you hit.

AFTER

Razorflies magically fly off the enemy toward Titania to deliver the appropriate exacted Tribute.

No other warframe has to cast an ability and then run head-first into death to get any benefit.

Next, Dust, the buff generated by ranged enemies:

BEFORE

Reduces the accuracy of enemies within 30 meters by 50%.

AFTER

Enemies within 30 meters are blinded.  After the initial blind trigger, the 'stun' animation will no longer occur until the enemy leaves the aura and returns to it.

This will have largely the same effect of reducing accuracy... however, it has the added benefit of briefly stunning enemies on application to allow Titania a small amount of breathing room, and it also opens them up to finishers.  While this might not be too horribly impressive in pixie form, it can add to team synergy.  The only problem with this is that it is ripe for abuse with finisher-centric builds, so perhaps only a temporary blind?  I can't say I know for sure.

Now, Thorns, the buff generated by melee enemies:

BEFORE

Reflects 25% of damage taken back to the attacker up to 40 meters away.  Allies also benefit.

AFTER

Enemies within 30 meters of Titania will deal 1%/1.5%/1.7%/2% (based on ability rank) of their max health as true damage every second to other enemies within 3 meters.

This doesn't really seem like much, the distance between enemies would have to be really short... but consider choke points, large packs of enemies moving through doors, and when enemies are affected by the new stationary (at least, it sounds like it will be) lantern, they should be bunching up pretty tightly, giving a pretty great synergy with her 3.  The range will also be consistent with the other buffs.  I stole the health percentages from Hydroid's puddle.

Then, Entangle, the buff given by heavy units:

BEFORE

Slows down enemy movement within 10 meters of Titania by 25%.

AFTER

Slows down Melee enemy movement and Ranged enemy attacks by 30-50% within 30 meters of Titania.

Like I said above, I don't want to stray too far from what the ability already does.  An alternative could be a damage reduction or max health boosting aura as Titania is extracting an offering from a heavy unit, but that wouldn't quite fit the 'entangle' theme, and I couldn't decide on an actual number to propose.  Again, consistent range.  At least this option makes more sense in terms of survival.

Finally, Full Moon, the buff given by summoned and flying enemies:

BEFORE

Increases damage dealt by companions and razorflies by 75% within 30 meters.

AFTER

Titania and her allies within 30 meters gain razorflies upon killing enemies, up to a maximum of six for titania and two for each of her allies.

We've already given her a new way to buff her team through finisher openings and plenty of damage synergy with lantern (and a nice way to rip apart choke points), so it might be better to just give her a way to replenish her razorflies and give allies some distracting tissue-paper bullet fodder too.

 CONCLUSION

This is all a rough draft written way past when I was supposed to go to sleep, numbers would have to be tweaked, certain parts might be completely missing the mark, but hey, it's a starting point, and certainly more constructive than my original idea of "throw it in the garbage and make a new one."

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How about making Spellbind instant and increasing it's radius? Just one fast cc that won't affect 2 enemies, it would be amazing change IMO.

I would also love to have more MORE razorflies but that's not that important.

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Well now. I think all this proves that DE needs to take a much closer look at these reworks. Split up the rework forum, and please throw the Titania rework at Pablo, it's very apparent the community really wants a lot more done than a touch-up. She needs a second look at, she needs to be able to not just rely on razerwing, but to stand ground just as easily outside of it.

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb GideonWilhelm:

Next, Dust, the buff generated by ranged enemies:

BEFORE

Reduces the accuracy of enemies within 30 meters by 50%.

AFTER

Enemies within 30 meters are blinded.  After the initial blind trigger, the 'stun' animation will no longer occur until the enemy leaves the aura and returns to it.

This will have largely the same effect of reducing accuracy... however, it has the added benefit of briefly stunning enemies on application to allow Titania a small amount of breathing room, and it also opens them up to finishers.  While this might not be too horribly impressive in pixie form, it can add to team synergy.  The only problem with this is that it is ripe for abuse with finisher-centric builds, so perhaps only a temporary blind?  I can't say I know for sure.

Should the Blind stay as long as the enemy is inside your Range or only initially when entering ? An initial stun followed by the Accuracy debuff sounds right to me.

vor 2 Stunden schrieb GideonWilhelm:

Now, Thorns, the buff generated by melee enemies:

BEFORE

Reflects 25% of damage taken back to the attacker up to 40 meters away.  Allies also benefit.

AFTER

Enemies within 30 meters of Titania will deal 1%/1.5%/1.7%/2% (based on ability rank) of their max health as true damage every second to other enemies within 3 meters.

This doesn't really seem like much, the distance between enemies would have to be really short... but consider choke points, large packs of enemies moving through doors, and when enemies are affected by the new stationary (at least, it sounds like it will be) lantern, they should be bunching up pretty tightly, giving a pretty great synergy with her 3.  The range will also be consistent with the other buffs.  I stole the health percentages from Hydroid's puddle.

This sounds good, but I woud tweak it a bit. They shouln't deal the damage every second, but every time they attack. This would fit the Thorn theme better.

vor 2 Stunden schrieb GideonWilhelm:

hen, Entangle, the buff given by heavy units:

BEFORE

Slows down enemy movement within 10 meters of Titania by 25%.

AFTER

Slows down Melee enemy movement and Ranged enemy attacks by 30-50% within 30 meters of Titania.

Like I said above, I don't want to stray too far from what the ability already does.  An alternative could be a damage reduction or max health boosting aura as Titania is extracting an offering from a heavy unit, but that wouldn't quite fit the 'entangle' theme, and I couldn't decide on an actual number to propose.  Again, consistent range.  At least this option makes more sense in terms of survival.

30m Range sounds a lot better then before. I am not sure if 50% effect is a bit to much.

vor 2 Stunden schrieb GideonWilhelm:

Finally, Full Moon, the buff given by summoned and flying enemies:

BEFORE

Increases damage dealt by companions and razorflies by 75% within 30 meters.

AFTER

Titania and her allies within 30 meters gain razorflies upon killing enemies, up to a maximum of six for titania and two for each of her allies.

Your idea is nice, but the problem with this buff does not lie in the buff itself, but in the companions AI and Razorwing not allowing you your pets/Razorflies low HP.

Edited by Naneel

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Here is my updated feedback of Nyx and Titania RE-VISIT (not rework) 

Nyx:

Passive: Make it 50% chance.

1st ability:

·       Since it’s all about controlling the enemy It should do more than just fight for you. The controlled enemy can hack alarms off for you and if they are traps it should be able to disarm them. (or add it to the 3rd ability)

·       Make it to where you can either make it stay in one spot or follow you.

·       (augment) deactivating the ability will kill the enemy which will spread to other enemies in close range, attacking each other for half the duration.

 

 

2nd ability:

·       Make it debuff all eximus units.

·       Make there be an indicator showing that the affected enemies have the debuff.

·       Make it hit multiple targets instead of one.

·       (synergy) Using it on the 1st ability can buff its survivability and receive a speed buff.

·       Make it to where you either use it on the same enemy to debuff it more OR it can`t be used on the same enemy so it will target enemies that`s not affected by it.

 

 

3rd ability:

·       Just to make it more useful you can make them do the idea I put on the 1st ability bulletpoint. To add to this, they could also make them fight enemies, run away in fear and lay on the ground brain dead. (there will be a percentage of each of them preforming those actions)

 

 

4th ability:

·       Make sure the passive deactivates when using the 4th ability.

·       Make it move at the same speed as jogging.

·       It pulls aggro from enemies and are hermitized into moving closer to nyx in a 50m radius.

·       You can use weapons inside it to add status effects to the absorption damage, but you can`t shoot enemies through it, adding status effects will also includes melee weapons. 

·       Whatever enemy is shooting at nyx will be affected by the explosion no matter the distance. Enemies in close damage range will take damage and enemies outside that will receive a knockdown and the status affects from weapons.

·       (Synergy) You can cast other abilities while using 4th ability.

·       (Synergy) If you use the 2nd ability, when deactivating the 4th ability, the debuff will spread to enemies the survive the blast.

(Me personally I would get rid of this ability and replace it with a new one)

 

Titania:

·       Increase all ability cast speed time.

 

 

1st ability:

·       Instead of them rag dolling, make them just hover in the air. (please make this so)

·       (augment) When adding status damage to enemies, when the affected enemy is killed, it will spread to nearby enemies.

 

 

2nd ability:

·       All ability affects when stacked up will reach up to 75% (as of now the abilities are unnoticeable and useless)

·       The range of enemies affected should be in a 50m radius.

·       Thorns – the damage reflection should be 1000+ to make it useful.

·       Full Moon – it should also increase companion’s movement speed.

·       Holding the ability should give you the option to choose what buff you want.

·       Enemies should get either a damage debuff or a health debuff.

 

 

3rd ability:

·       Each enemy affected will increase the range by 2m.

 

 

4th ability:

·       While using 4th ability, make the other ability cost half the energy.

·       Get rid of zero gravity. When you stop, she stops instead of it keep on moving, it’s very annoying. (include this in archwing)

 

Some of people’s comments I agree with;

Spoiler

-Icicles- You should receive Tribute buffs automatically in Razorwing or at least vacuumable. 

 

 

SSI_Seraph - Is the new psychic bolts an AOE or is it still a limited number of random targets. If it's the later it's not really as useful as it seems tbh. You either want to target high priority targets or get them in the AOE.

- are you guys still planning to change the drain calculation formula to make her able to tank longer.

Titania:

- You're still risking to underdanger yourself by going to pick the buffs on a squishy frame, the accuracy debuff gimmick is just rolling a dice on w/e you get oneshot or not on decent levels.

- the buffs are still not worth picking up tbh;

   +Thorns' 25% slow and 10m radius are making this one basicly useless unless you're melee on a squishy frame.

   + The accuracy debuff is just a bad RNG based survivability tool.

   + reflects are absolutely worthless without a heavy multiplier tied to them, this is why you're reworking nyx's mind control after all.

   + Companions damage output isn't really that high to be worth buffing and the bad AI still makes them easy targets in the beasts' case.

- Her animations are super slow.

 

 

Anthraxicus - Allow Mind Control to dictate the behavior of the controlled enemy, allowing us to choose a more passive stance, forcing the AI to stay with us (eg.: Ancient Healer), or more aggressive stance. 

 

 

Ijmadruga - With regards to Nyx, I’d like to see the damage multiplier be applied to targets affected by chaos while MC and Chaos are active so that they take increased damage from all sources. Combined with PB and Absorb, it makes for terrific synergy between the two abilities.

 

 

MrTitan123 - 1. Mind control targets, even with upgraded pathing and A.I, are not very smart. With enemies everywhere, it’s unlikely that enemies will target the MC victim instead of anything else. Considering that they will have new “follow the player” behavior, that paints an even bigger bullseye on your back. I suggest making her target run around and attack, and even force aggro if it is a “strong” unit like an eximus unit. So, have it run around on its own in combat, and then follow nyx outside of it, so you have an opportunity to work from outside the line of fire.

2. You might want to put a bigger damage multiplier. 1.5x damage ain’t gonna cut it for long. Enemies have armor along with increased damage the higher the level goes, but when that damage from enemies is pit against itself, nothing really happens. I know the new debuff is going to decrease armor and shields, and that’s great and all, but if your minion can’t kill the enemies it’s been turned against, then it becomes useless. I would also suggest that if you implement drawing aggro, that enemies contribute to your minion’s damage. While nyx wouldn’t be able to increase its damage anymore, the minion just doing its job would.

Or, to put that all simply:

 Minion gets mind controlled -> Minion attacks things -> Minion draws attention -> Minion takes more damage -> Minion damage increases -> Minion kills everything -> Duration ends and minion dies because of the massive amount of damage it had stored -> Rinse and repeat -> Grofit

 

 

EchoesOfRain - DAMAGE REFLECTION IS BAD

Even if it was 100% damage reflection, due to how enemies scale, it would still be useless. Titania is a squishy frame, taking damage is BAD for her. If it was 50% damage reduction it would be more acceptable

 

Can we also address Titanias abysmal cast times and energy pool?

 

 

Equinox21697 - Nyx's mind control is a really good improvement but since we can buff our victims our selves that would make her Mindfreak mod useless, so maybe add a mod that let's us control our targets similar to spectres and get them to hold position and such? Or make that part of the ability idk.

 

 

DingusGinger - I also believe with her Absord it should Agro the enemies

 

 

NemitheNem - I do not like how psychic bolts is time limited--corrosive and shattering impact are forever after all. 

Titania needs higher base energy, but I do like the proposed changes to tribute. However, the buff should be random instead of tied to enemy types. Percentage of time left on a buff should be subtracted from the chance to get that buff in next cast. This way titania can rack up all her buffs without having to hunt down the right enemy

 

 

-Mittens- I'm honestly not impressed. You guys are limiting yourselves here by refusing to try newer abilities. I understand the whole "if it ain't broke don't fix it" approach to old ability types, but for 2 of the worst frames in the game right now... they need proper reworks.

 

 

So here's my issues with each of them:

Nyx:

1) Mind Control still relies on bad AI. Just because they stay near you does not make the ability better, nor does being able to buff them make it any better. If anything, her 1 should be a buff to allies. Like, imagine a Nyx giving her "mental strength" to allies for a duration. I'd rather have an ability to buff allies than an ability to buff an unreliable controlled enemy.

2) Psychic Bolts has promise but really strongly relies on numbers. In my opinion, at around ~185% Power Strength, it should remove armor/shields by 100%. Otherwise, nothing to note here.

3) Chaos isn't getting any changes? Even though enemies can still go out of their way to attack you??? Missed opportunity. A really big shame.

4) Absorb needs to be scrapped entirely. Either that, or have Assimilate built-in and have the augment do something else. I think you should have something like the Moa precept that has an AOE that slows enemy bullets and such, and still offer her a good way to tank like Assimilate provides. Also this doesn't solve the issue of teammates griefing you and deleting all your energy with 2 Tigris shots. 😕 

Passive) This could be good... if enemy accuracy didn't scale with level, and scale over 100%. I would think more about this one tbh.

Titania:

1) No Spellbind changes..? Sure I guess. Maybe increase the cast speed?

2) Tribute is just... awful. There's nothing you can salvage here. Much like Nyx, it should just be a straight buff to your allies... only in this context, it should be ONE really good buff, not FOUR bad buffs. Your reliance on keeping this ability as similar as it is will ultimately kill this ability, and Titania will still be one of the worst frames. 😕

3) Lantern changes are good. Having a way to have multiple distractions for enemies, and a way to explode the lanterns is a really solid buff. I just hope the explosions deal good damage.

4) ...No Razorwing changes? As happy as I am that you guys are finally giving her vacuum in her razorwing, that doesn't just "cure" all the other issues. Much like with Nyx's proposed new passive, the evasion that's built-in does not work for enemies after a high enough level. Enemy accuracy can scale over 100%. Razorwing also needs a damage boost for the butterflies as well. Then there's the issue of needing to forma TWO weapons for one frame. Titania is the most forma-expensive frame in the game, because you not only have to forma her, you have to forma her weapons too since **Forma for SOME reason doesn't let you polarize the frame AND their exalted weapons.** That's more a general complaint for exalted frames, but for her it's twofold.

Passive) I mean... it works? It does what it needs to do, so I can't really complain.

 

 

Overall:

I'm incredibly disappointed by what you've presented to us. I think you guys should slow down, and think more on the frames themselves and give them proper reworks with newer functioning abilities and not just rehashing what's already broken. I don't mean to be vile, but we've waited a long time for these reworks, may as well make them the best they can be yes? 

 

 

Naneel - Titania needs a lot more love than this. I love her theme I would really like to play her more but she does feel clunky and slow. So here are my suggestions for her : 

Increase her casting speed

give her more Energy

1st Ability : hang the enemies in the air so they don't float away all the time (much like the old Zenurik skill did)

2nd Ability : the buffs should all have the same range and duration, so its easier to maintain them, focus more on the innate debuff and add the auras as a bonus ; the buffs itself need a look at, but enough players wrote what is wrong with them so I won't repeat it here :

make a large AOE around Titania (sending out a swarm of Razorflies)  

every enemy hit will deal less damage for a short period (currently 25% less for 12sec, which is okay; maybe make the duration longer the more enemies you hit, like Rhinos 4th Ability)

every enemy hit will be damaged (either the current damage or a slash proc from the Razorflies would be nice)

every enemy hit will have its soul extracted , the Razorflies will bring them back to Titania, so she can easily collect buffs

3rd Ability : 4 Lanterns sound nice and if they are teathered to the ground will be nice to use

 

 

Qamelion - Guys, just calm down please. This is a common strategy from DE.

The only reason why Nyx and Titania get some changes is because their deluxe packages coming out in the next weeks and DE wants to ensure that the sales are high.

Same story with Vauban deluxe, or Mirage prime, Limbo prime and so on.

I don't know why DE is doing this kind of strategy but it seems to work for them.

Chroma Prime didn't got any changes because he is highly requested for Eidolon hunts. Mesa Prime also won't get any changes.

Also: The tweaks for Titania and Nyx are not from Boss Pablo himself.

So.. don't expect any awesome changes or that DE will take much of your feedback in consideration.

 

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757
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Titania currently needs to be as far away from enemies as possible. Keeping that in mind -

Titania issues:

Passive: I'm sure you're already aware by now, but RNG defense is not defense. See all previous posts about getting one-shotted.

Spellbind: Status immunity should affect her no matter how far away she is from the cast area.

Tribute: As others have already mentioned, the buffs are mostly bad. Other than that, the buffs should also affect her no matter how far away she is from the cast area. Trying to collect them gets her dead.

Lantern: This ability has so many AI issues. As in everything including her own butterflies attack the lanterns. Pets and invasion allies and specters also do. Please have her create her OWN lanterns. At high levels enemies don't even look at her and she dies. She needs to be able to place lanterns before enemies walk through the door. Also, it can be cast more times but she doesn't have the energy to support it.

Razorwing: Base move speed is still too slow. Don't mention the bandaid mod please. Razorflies need to respawn.

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41 minutes ago, Wolfchild07 said:

Also, it can be cast more times but she doesn't have the energy to support it.

This is a sentiment I keep seeing over and over and over and over again.  "Her abilities are really expensive."

Does Titania's base energy pool need a look-over?  Do we need some other avenues for efficiency mods?  Does Baro Ki'teer need to just suck it up and bust out his backroom stock of Primed Flows?  Because 425 energy and 175% efficiency has always been plenty for me when playing Titania, even with having to near-bonk the floor for energy, and I SPAM her kit.

It is a bit scary in the Vallis when energy pickups are about as easy to find as Fat Man ammo in Fallout, and maybe it's also an issue solo, but in most target-rich missions it's never a problem for me.

That said, I sure as hell wouldn't object to an energy pool buff so long as it doesn't jank up the rest of her kit in exchange

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9 hours ago, GideonWilhelm said:

Next, Dust, the buff generated by ranged enemies:

BEFORE

Reduces the accuracy of enemies within 30 meters by 50%.

AFTER

Enemies within 30 meters are blinded.  After the initial blind trigger, the 'stun' animation will no longer occur until the enemy leaves the aura and returns to it.

This will have largely the same effect of reducing accuracy... however, it has the added benefit of briefly stunning enemies on application to allow Titania a small amount of breathing room, and it also opens them up to finishers.  While this might not be too horribly impressive in pixie form, it can add to team synergy.  The only problem with this is that it is ripe for abuse with finisher-centric builds, so perhaps only a temporary blind?  I can't say I know for sure.

I love all the other suggestions (especially the Full Moon buff; that actually makes a whole lot of sense; though you may need to alter Razorfly behavior/aggro to keep them from becoming too OP), but your Dust proposal seems a bit too much Savage Silence Banshee, if you get my meaning. Besides, Dust does have the potential to be a fantastic team buff if DE alteres the way Dust applies its intended feature.

Dust is of limited use because of enemy accuracy/RoF scaling, and it is totally negated by homing weaponry (hello Billy Bombard). Dust's 50% enemy accuracy debuff is completely negated around enemy level 80. I can't describe to you how great of a disappointment this is. Dust has the potential to be one of the BEST, if not THE BEST late game team defensive solution, but it is utterly defeated by late game enemy scaling.

The Tankiest of the Tanks get rekt by enemy damage scaling, and the only way to counteract the damage scaling, is to not take damage in any form.

Total damage negation; no fine print in the footer. It's what makes Volt's shields mandatory for endless play. And Dust could be just as valuable, if it only negated damage independent of enemy level. Which is why I think the algorithm needs to be changed from "reduces enemy accuracy" to "negates damage received".

Let's say that Titania is actively under fire with a max 50% Dust buff; though rather than reducing enemy accuracy by 50%, Dust instead tallies strikes on Titania's hitbox; 50% of these tallied strikes have their damage negated.

With this adjustment, Dust's 50% "Evasion bonus" is applied universally; completely independent of enemy level. Ergo, Dust is just as viable at enemy level 15 as it is at enemy level 4000.

Dust's evasion bonus should also be applied additively to Razorwing's Evasion Bonus for balancing issues; this way enemy projectiles have to get passed two separate 50% damage negation tallies in order to register a hit. This prevents Titania from ever achieving 100% Evasion, and it diverts from the practical nullification of either evasion bonus that would occur from implementing a multiplicative model.

Yes, I've heard the "Say no to RNG buffs" argument before, I've heard the whole "50% chance to get totally rekt" track, but the fact is that in endless: a 50% chance of avoiding damage translates into a 50% increased chance of not getting 1-shotted. And Dust can apply that to the whole team.

That is a sizable buff to the party's longevity, and I can whole heartedly advocate for that kind of an increase.

And seeing as we're all cut-&-pasting from our own "Titania Revisited" threads, I'll just dump my own pile here:

1st: Spellbind-

After having read some suggestions in this DEVworkshop, I think it would be fair to improve the cast speed AND give Titania the status immunity buff independent of Spellbind's AoE. Even if Titania is positioned a mile away from the targeted area (say, because she's flying about in in the air), she should still benefit from Spellbind's full effects.

3rd: Lantern-

Say we adopt a tether, because that seems to be what DE is proposing (which is exactly what we've been asking for). Number of Lanterns is of no concern to me, but let's suggest that we only get  a maximum of 1 Lantern. Now I want to propose an ability Synergy for Lantern. Spellbind; enemies in a ragdoll state (I.E. affected by Spellbind) that are also within Lantern's attraction perimeter gravitate towards Lantern's core (I.E. the hapless schmuck Titania turned into a lure); upon death, Spellbound enemies release a radial Spellbind, re-applying the effect for its remaining duration (Similar to Equinox's Calm & Frenzy Aug). This will allow Titania to "control and contain" Spellbind's hovering ragdoll effect, while improving Lantern's ability at clustering enemies together into a central location.

As for detonating the Lantern? I've got 2 suggestions to mull over.

What if Lantern's damage scaled off of damage dealt to enemies effected by its attraction radius? Similar to the "Damage Absorb" mechanics utilized by Mag's Magnetize, just with a deliberately longer fuse and the innate ability to manually detonate the Lantern.

Alternatively, the Lantern itself could aggro enemies into attacking it. Damage dealt to the Lantern could be dispersed between the Lantern's DoT & its Detonation, starting out at a 10% Absorbed Damage to DoT/90% Absorbed Damage to Detonation, gradually shifting to a maximum of 90% Absorbed Damage to DoT/ 10% Absorbed Damge to Detonation; the transfer ratio of which would be determined by Lantern's maximum duration and its current decay. This would allow you to quickly charge up a nuke by shooting the Lantern yourself and then manually detonating it while the majority of the Absorbed Damage was being redirected into Detonation; or you could go for the slow burn and allow the redirection to gradually shift the absorbed damage into the Lantern's DoT, so that it would generate a deathzone at the later stages of Lantern's duration-decay.

If either of these mechanics were implemented, then we definitely wouldn't need a silly charge up-casting mechanic to make a decent bomb out of Lantern.

4th: Razorwing-

Apart from providing us with a mechanic that allows Titania to repopulate Razorflies on the wing, all I really want is some QoL changes. Namely the ability to interact with consoles, revive teammates, pickup fuel cells/kuva catalysts, capture fallen Capture Targets... you know, basically everything we can already do in Archwing?

Other than that, I'd press for copying Venari's Exalted Companion mechanic for Razorflies, and making them an independent companion that can have its base stats altered by companion mods (Yeah, I know; more Forma fodder on a Warframe that already has 2 Exalted Weapons in need of additional Formas; I'd still make the investment if it meant improving the Razorflies's overall utility). Given how Moas have expanded on the ways companions can be modded (proximity based Shield Charger/Medi-Ray on a companion that doesn't track your Warfarme like a shadow), I'd suggesting copying some lines from their AI programming to make this alteration feasible.

Increasing Titania's base energy pool to 150 would be another change I'd press for. Given how often she has to cast in order to keep her survivability in a practical state, having a larger energy pool could relieve some of the energy maintenance pressure. Making her other 3 abilities cheaper to cast while in Razorwing (say abilities cost 33% less energy to cast/have Faster Casting Speed while Razorwing is active) would also relieve some serious casting restraints imposed on a channeling ability Warframe that can't utilize Rage/Hunter Adrenaline because of its sub-par EHP.

As for the evasion bonus? Razorwing keeps that. Consider it some MUCH needed compensation for forfeiting the ability to dodge roll and constantly being exposed to enemy fire from all sides (including below; oh the nuances of aviation combat!).

Of course, I'd want to make her passive apply in Razorwing as well, but don't expect a grand departure from what it already does:

Passive: Trampoline-

While in Razorwing, sprinting from a standstill generates a trampoline that grants a brief (but fairly significant) boost to Titania's movement speed. Ergo, anytime Razorwing Titania begins to accelerate towards her maximum velocity, she gains a temporary boost to movement speed, and leaves a trampoline behind for teammates to utilize. To improve trampoline's relevance to teammates, the parkour buff is now administered via a temporary status effect, rather than its current proximity based effect; that way, teammates passing through a high altitude Trampoline can still benefit from the parkour buff upon reacquainting themselves with the ground. This alteration to how Trampoline's buff is administered is applied to Trampolines generated by both Razorwing and non-Razorwing Trampolines.

Edited by (XB1)Vile Slanders
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On 2018-11-28 at 11:20 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

AFTER:
Razorwing will simply receive a Vacuum to make acquiring loot, energy, etc easier. Remember - less of a hassle!

I'd just like to start off by saying I recently bought the Silver Grove collection just for the Pox (because it was mastery rank locked otherwise) and that I very seldom use Titania except for very specific movement challenges. I'd also like to say that it's very unlikely that this change will really inspire me to use her more.

Now, in regards to things being made..."less of a hassle"...

 

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vor 12 Stunden schrieb (PS4)Vexx757:

1st ability:

·       Since it’s all about controlling the enemy It should do more than just fight for you. The controlled enemy can hack alarms off for you and if they are traps it should be able to disarm them. (or add it to the 3rd ability)

·       Make it to where you can either make it stay in one spot or follow you.

·       (augment) deactivating the ability will kill the enemy which will spread to other enemies in close range, attacking each other for half the duration.

I like where your idea goes. To be able to command stay or follow would be really nice, I am not sure what traps you mean, hacking alarms would be nice, but i guess this is out of question, as it requires interaction. What i would like to see is a really high threat level, so it actually takes fire from you. And if it isn't to OP make MC a toggled Ability to enhance your target for better Offence or Defence.

For the Augmanet, how about a mini-Absorb. The Target enters Absorb for a set duration and explodes at the end with damage and a guaranteed knockdown.

vor 12 Stunden schrieb (PS4)Vexx757:

2nd ability:

·       Make it debuff all eximus units.

·       Make there be an indicator showing that the affected enemies have the debuff.

·       Make it hit multiple targets instead of one.

·       (synergy) Using it on the 1st ability can buff its survivability and receive a speed buff.

·       Make it to where you either use it on the same enemy to debuff it more OR it can`t be used on the same enemy so it will target enemies that`s not affected by it.

Debuff on Eximus sounds good. They didn't announce how enemies will be tareted, but i hope for either an AOE or more then 6 bolts, if it stays the same as now.

For Chaos : It works fine and I guess every bonus would be to OP, but if not, make her 2nd Skill (Debuff) part of Chaos.

Absorb : I like the idea of Absorb, but as Warframe currently functions I don't see how this skill can work efficiently. Either make her Augment innate oder give her a new skill (which I would prefer, as I am not a hughe fan of God-Mode).

Idea for a new skill, I am not sure if it is good enough for a 4th skill, but it sounds to good for 2nd Ability (if the Debuff is put into Chaos) :

What I always missed on her, is an Ability to be seen as one of the enemies by the enemies. She would not be invisible, but she would count as one of them. For me this would perfectly fit her theme as Mind-Controller. I would make it an Aura, which costs for every Enemie inside its Range (which should be 25m at least). Technically it could be handeld as invisibility without making her invisible. The effect will not be broken by skills, but by (non-silent) gunfire. 

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Pretty please redo Titania's Tribute types because each one is very poor.

The descriptions of each may make them look useful, but they are not and I think enough people here have explained why.

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11 hours ago, (XB1)Vile Slanders said:

As for detonating the Lantern? I've got 2 suggestions to mull over.

What if Lantern's damage scaled off of damage dealt to enemies effected by its attraction radius? Similar to the "Damage Absorb" mechanics utilized by Mag's Magnetize, just with a deliberately longer fuse and the innate ability to manually detonate the Lantern.

Alternatively, the Lantern itself could aggro enemies into attacking it. Damage dealt to the Lantern could be dispersed between the Lantern's DoT & its Detonation, starting out at a 10% Absorbed Damage to DoT/90% Absorbed Damage to Detonation, gradually shifting to a maximum of 90% Absorbed Damage to DoT/ 10% Absorbed Damge to Detonation; the transfer ratio of which would be determined by Lantern's maximum duration and its current decay. This would allow you to quickly charge up a nuke by shooting the Lantern yourself and then manually detonating it while the majority of the Absorbed Damage was being redirected into Detonation; or you could go for the slow burn and allow the redirection to gradually shift the absorbed damage into the Lantern's DoT, so that it would generate a deathzone at the later stages of Lantern's duration-decay.

If either of these mechanics were implemented, then we definitely wouldn't need a silly charge up-casting mechanic to make a decent bomb out of Lantern.

I love your other ideas, but this seems like it'd be a little too much overlap with other warframes.  I think the 'gravitate spellbound enemies' and 'exploding on spellbound enemies causes radial spellbind' are plenty good, and would make Titania a crowd control monster.  Adding even more damage on top of that would very likely lead to some follow-up nerfs.

The razorwings getting a Venari treatment would probably be welcomed as well, in my opinion... though equipping vacuum on them would lead to quite a mess.

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I have some additional ideas for Nyx. This will be more of a rework then some tweaks and I would really appreciate some constructive critque. All Number are subject to change, but I will give them so you know where I am heading.

Passive : I like the idea for Accuracy Debuff.

1st Ability Mind Control : will mostly stay the same, just some tweaks :

  • cast anew onto the target to refresh the duration without losing your target

  • hold to releaase the target, stored damage will be dealt

  • targets count as friendly (mostly relevant for defense and Interception)

  • targets can capture and contest points (Interception)

  • pressing X near them to let them follow you or stay (following would be standard)

  • targets get a high thread level to actually take fire from Nyx

I am not a hughe fan of the enhance mechanic, as it makes no sense to enhance someone by shooting them. So I would give them a defense boost on cast (Maybe give them Nyx passive). You can enhance them with the 2nd Ability.

Augment Absorb : As you cast MC on a target it will enter the Absorb mode and run towards enemies. After a set Duration (5s) it will explode dealing all stored damage to every enemy in Range (10m) and a guaranteed Knockdown. For a more offensive use of MC.

 

2nd Ability Psychic Bolts : no debuff here as it will be put into Chaos

  • send a volley 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 (scales with Duration, max. 12) Bolts onto your enemies, each seeking a nearby target ( if there are fewer targets then Bolts one can be hit by multiple Bolts)

  • each Bolt deals 60/120/180/200 + 1%/1.5%/1.7%/2% (%-reference from Hydroids 3rd Ability) of the targets max. HP as Slash damage with a 10% status chance, the Bleed DoT will be unchanged

  • if you fire your Bolts onto your MC target, all Bolts will hit it and enhance his damage by 50% (scales with strength, max. 100%) per Bolt hit, as you overload him with Psychic Energy (I am tempted to give it either a set Duration or to reduce the remaining Duration of MC or simply kill the target after some time without being able to refresh the duration, as the damage buff could be a bit high, but this needs testing)

If it is more convenient cast to fire and hold to enhance your MC target.


 

What I always missed on her, is an Ability to be seen as one of the enemies by the enemies. She would not be invisible, but she would count as one of them. For me this would perfectly fit her theme as Mind-Controller. So this will be her new 3rd Ability. There are 2 ways to approach this, but I am not sure if a) is doable.

3rd Ability

a) Ignorantia : Nyx will dramatically lower her threat and detection level, so enemies will mostly ignore her if she does not come to close (5m).

b) Impersonation : Nyx will be percived as an ally by enemies. Technically she would be invisible without optically be it.

  • Nyx emits an aura with a radius of 50/40/30/25 meters. It will remain active indefinitely until deactivated by running out of energy, or by pressing the ability key again (default 3).

  • It will cost 1.5 / 1.25 / 1 / 0.5 (reference from Equinox 3rd Ability) Energy per enemy inside the Range

  • Nyx can move normally

  • Abilities won't break the effect, (non-silent) gunfire will

Augment : She will share the effects with her allies in Range (5-10m)

 

4th Ability Chaos : This will be mostly the same as the current Chaos with some tweaks and Boni :

  • every enemy hit will lose defenses depending on his faction (values for Shield/Armor have 20/40/60/80% of defenses removed, infested will be slowed)

As it is now her Ultimate you should be able to reduce the defences about 100% (scales with Strength) the infested could lose max. Health instead of being slowed (max. 50%)

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pls dont remove rad proc on her 2nd ability, Also limbo fks her mind control. controlled units get stuck in the rift.. making nyx even more useless.

oh and please release a PRIMED streamline already. its perfect for the vanilla frames arcane helm. TY for all ur hard work. pls dont mess this rework up.

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About Titania's 4:

Giving her pixie mode vacuum is definitely a step into the right direction. But how about additionally enabling "Afterburner" like for normal "Skywing" mode?

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On 2018-12-03 at 7:59 PM, GideonWilhelm said:

This is a sentiment I keep seeing over and over and over and over again.  "Her abilities are really expensive."

Does Titania's base energy pool need a look-over?  Do we need some other avenues for efficiency mods?  Does Baro Ki'teer need to just suck it up and bust out his backroom stock of Primed Flows?  Because 425 energy and 175% efficiency has always been plenty for me when playing Titania, even with having to near-bonk the floor for energy, and I SPAM her kit.

It is a bit scary in the Vallis when energy pickups are about as easy to find as Fat Man ammo in Fallout, and maybe it's also an issue solo, but in most target-rich missions it's never a problem for me.

That said, I sure as hell wouldn't object to an energy pool buff so long as it doesn't jank up the rest of her kit in exchange

Yea, the energy pool needs a look-over.  Blitz roughly doubles her energy consumption and when I don't run that 175% efficiency I find my perma-Hysteria Blind Rage Valkyr far more manageable in Energy than my Titania.

It's also why I feel antagonistic at the unwarranted praise towards Razorwing Vacuum.  Yay you can suck up all the energy orbs.  Oops.  Was that the energy orb I wanted to save for when my energy was down 200 energy for Arcane Energize?  Yes, yes it was.

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31 minutes ago, WhimsicalPacifist said:

It's also why I feel antagonistic at the unwarranted praise towards Razorwing Vacuum.  Yay you can suck up all the energy orbs.  Oops.  Was that the energy orb I wanted to save for when my energy was down 200 energy for Arcane Energize?  Yes, yes it was. 

Wow. 1st world problems if I've ever heard them.

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6 minutes ago, (XB1)Vile Slanders said:

Wow. 1st world problems if I've ever heard them.

Well TBH it's a problem I first noticed when running Zenurik and having a Sentinel with Vacuum equipped.  Top off your energy pool with Zenurik, good to go right? Accidentally bump open that crate that usually carries two energy orbs equaling 40 seconds of flight time with 175% efficiency right before you enter Razorwing?  Sentinel will happily suck up both Energy orbs, thus definitively wasting precisely 35 seconds of flight time (factored in Razorwing's base energy cost).

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Titania NEEDS a different passive. Make it her razorwing butterflies. Let them regenerate on their own and be active all the time. You could lower the number of max butterflies to balance if need be.

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6 hours ago, Naneel said:

I have some additional ideas for Nyx. This will be more of a rework then some tweaks and I would really appreciate some constructive critque. All Number are subject to change, but I will give them so you know where I am heading.

Passive : I like the idea for Accuracy Debuff.

1st Ability Mind Control : will mostly stay the same, just some tweaks :

  • cast anew onto the target to refresh the duration without losing your target

  • hold to releaase the target, stored damage will be dealt

  • targets count as friendly (mostly relevant for defense and Interception)

  • targets can capture and contest points (Interception)

  • pressing X near them to let them follow you or stay (following would be standard)

  • targets get a high thread level to actually take fire from Nyx

I am not a hughe fan of the enhance mechanic, as it makes no sense to enhance someone by shooting them. So I would give them a defense boost on cast (Maybe give them Nyx passive). You can enhance them with the 2nd Ability.

Augment Absorb : As you cast MC on a target it will enter the Absorb mode and run towards enemies. After a set Duration (5s) it will explode dealing all stored damage to every enemy in Range (10m) and a guaranteed Knockdown. For a more offensive use of MC.

 

2nd Ability Psychic Bolts : no debuff here as it will be put into Chaos

  • send a volley 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 (scales with Duration, max. 12) Bolts onto your enemies, each seeking a nearby target ( if there are fewer targets then Bolts one can be hit by multiple Bolts)

  • each Bolt deals 60/120/180/200 + 1%/1.5%/1.7%/2% (%-reference from Hydroids 3rd Ability) of the targets max. HP as Slash damage with a 10% status chance, the Bleed DoT will be unchanged

  • if you fire your Bolts onto your MC target, all Bolts will hit it and enhance his damage by 50% (scales with strength, max. 100%) per Bolt hit, as you overload him with Psychic Energy (I am tempted to give it either a set Duration or to reduce the remaining Duration of MC or simply kill the target after some time without being able to refresh the duration, as the damage buff could be a bit high, but this needs testing)

If it is more convenient cast to fire and hold to enhance your MC target.


 

What I always missed on her, is an Ability to be seen as one of the enemies by the enemies. She would not be invisible, but she would count as one of them. For me this would perfectly fit her theme as Mind-Controller. So this will be her new 3rd Ability. There are 2 ways to approach this, but I am not sure if a) is doable.

3rd Ability

a) Ignorantia : Nyx will dramatically lower her threat and detection level, so enemies will mostly ignore her if she does not come to close (5m).

b) Impersonation : Nyx will be percived as an ally by enemies. Technically she would be invisible without optically be it.

  • Nyx emits an aura with a radius of 50/40/30/25 meters. It will remain active indefinitely until deactivated by running out of energy, or by pressing the ability key again (default 3).

  • It will cost 1.5 / 1.25 / 1 / 0.5 (reference from Equinox 3rd Ability) Energy per enemy inside the Range

  • Nyx can move normally

  • Abilities won't break the effect, (non-silent) gunfire will

Augment : She will share the effects with her allies in Range (5-10m)

 

4th Ability Chaos : This will be mostly the same as the current Chaos with some tweaks and Boni :

  • every enemy hit will lose defenses depending on his faction (values for Shield/Armor have 20/40/60/80% of defenses removed, infested will be slowed)

As it is now her Ultimate you should be able to reduce the defences about 100% (scales with Strength) the infested could lose max. Health instead of being slowed (max. 50%)

Mmm, I don't really like some of these for Nyx. A better name for your suggested 3b ability would be Projection or Psionic Projection. But I get the idea of projecting an image in the mind of the enemies they perceive her as an ally. It wouldn't make sense to have both Mind Control and this ability.  As for 3a Psychic Cloak fits better with what you describe. and sounds fun but if I wanted to stealth about so to speak I'd pick Loki or Ivara

I like how Choas is now but I can agree it could use an extra kick. Idk maybe increase the duration of already afflicted debuffs Or increase damage taken from all sources.

I do like the idea for Bolts. I will miss its rad proc. But if they can manage to work out the mechanics and application for the Bolts Debuff, I think it will be a good skill.

 

I have an idea for her Absorb which will make it work somewhat like Octavia's Mallet but with slower movement.

 

Ability 4 Psionic Embodiment:

Nyx levitates herself into the air while drawing on the strength of the all sentient minds around her pooling them together transforming her into pure mental energy.

 

While in this state, enemies are enticed to attack Nyx while absorbing all enemy damage hitting her. Damage absorbed is accumulated and stored. Damage is converted into Blast/Slash damage, multiplied by 1.5x / 2x / 2.5x / 3x. Ability will remain active until Nyx runs out of energy or upon deactivation. Upon deactivation, Nyx will unleash a single devastating wave of psychic energy knocking down all enemies within 10 meters. Damage can be unleashed manually by holding down the key. Doing so will send out waves of stored damage for as long as the key is held. (Or Maybe 1 wave per 10k damaged absorb)

 

As for the drain, I felt I that absorbs drain is fine as it is but now you have the ability to alleviate the pressure or so to speak. So that its energy consumptions doesn’t get too high during heavy damage periods. And as for movement, it will have Assimilate's movement built in.

 

Augment: Mental Attunement

Abilities have a 2% / 6% / 8% / 10% reduced cost and movement speed penalty reduced to 20%

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