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[DE]Rebecca

Nyx & Titania Dev Workshop

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7 minutes ago, (XB1)Darthgollum 01 said:

Thanks for the info though but like i said we shouldn't need to waste half an hour browsing google for info on a buff that lasts 90s-2mins it should be accessible in game and quickly

I don't understand why you'd have to waste half an hour browsing google.  I typed 'warframe wiki' into google, clicked a link, then typed 'tribute' into the search bar there and the first result is a link directly to the ability with all the information you could possibly need.

I kinda think this should be more heavily-publicized information.  The Warframe Wiki is one of the absolute best and most comprehensive game wikis ever made.

edit: you can also just type "warframe titania" into google and click the wiki link and then click 'abilities' and scroll down.  Fifteen seconds to get what you're looking for.

edit2: I agree though that it'd be nice to have a bit more information in-game.

Edited by GideonWilhelm

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On 2018-11-28 at 8:20 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Nyx

Nyx is one of our earliest released Warframes, making her appearance in the Closed Beta version of Warframe! Since that was more than 5 years ago, we are taking the time with this rework to also completely re-do her audio as well. Still rooted in what we know, we'll be updating her sound library to 2018 standards. Your ears are in for a treat!

Now, onto the powers.

New Passive: Enemies can't seem to truly target Nyx and all receive an accuracy debuff against her.

Nyx is receiving a new passive overall, the random disarm was on-theme, but feedback over time has always slanted toward 'new passive, please!'.

 

I really do like most of the changes with how NYX is being reworked. Mind control might actually be viable now which is awesome because I actually try to use it to cause some kind of CC and it works out rather well other times it kind of falls flat but now this might change that.

 

Psychic bolts is being reworked we'll see how that goes it looks good so far.

Absorb looks Spectacular Now.

 

This passive doesn't need to be on this Warframe in fact I would say this is designed for Mesa more than anybody. I would suggest instead a Insanity field that grows by 1 meter up to 12 and has a Decay rate of 5 Seconds per stack up to 12. Enemies that enter the insanity field what instead have one of three effects happen to them

 

1: Nothing. They have a chaos like stun and then move on.

2: they start firing on their own people and in the case of the infested become a personal minion until death because you have otherwise convinced them that your hive mind is stronger. Because lephantis lore.

3: they start screaming and end up in the fetal position and take bleed damage from their head and the psychic pressure having a complete meltdown 1940s insane asylum Style. 

 

This properly would define Nyx as a psychic frame and go with her kit of causing disorder and chaos with now a touch of insanity. I would really hope that this makes it to the Warframe making her extremely unique in playstyle.

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vor einer Stunde schrieb NyxSilence:

This properly would define Nyx as a psychic frame and go with her kit of causing disorder and chaos with now a touch of insanity. I would really hope that this makes it to the Warframe making her extremely unique in playstyle.

I hope it does not, insanity does not fit Nyx, she is a mind controller, but she is not insane...

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10 minutes ago, Naneel said:

I hope it does not, insanity does not fit Nyx, she is a mind controller, but she is not insane...

Never said SHE was insane. What's happening to the people around her is. Controlling someone's mind and telling them to fight their own people is pretty insane. Casting chaos to confuse everybody and make them fight each other is kind of insane, almost like its CRAZY PERSON coming at them. And even the slang form of the word insane is used for absorb how the enemy can't seem to do damage to her but she seems to just reflect it back. 

(Edit) I just remembered the existence of the grineer manic. Manic is the deviation of the word Mania which is also a synonym of insane. So if you were to tie this in the grineer attacking each other would make it look like they were manic or even insane which is the same word essentially.

 

insane

 adjective

in·sane | \(ˌ)in-ˈsān  \

Definition of insane 

1a(1): exhibiting a severely disordered state of mind : affected with mental illness

(2)law : affected with insanity(see INSANITY sense 2)criminally insane

b: unable to think in a clear or sensible way : CRAZYinsane with jealousy—not used technically

2: used by, typical of, or intended for mentally ill people

Edited by NyxSilence

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On 2018-11-28 at 4:20 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Mind Control:

BEFORE:
Nyx picks a single target within Range and brings them to the Tenno side for a given Duration. The problem this had was the target never really felt... powerful.  

AFTER:
Nyx still picks a single target within Range and brings them to the Tenno side for a given Duration - but now she can multiply the damage output of that enemy by her own hand!!

Little suggestion. Can we have a toggle on that skill? Like aggressive (will attack anything close by) and passive (will only follow the warframe).

Its similar to the Khora's kavat.

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everything certainly looks better than it currently is. i assume the goal is minor adjustments that achieve improvement.
however:

  • what about the Damage intake nerfing that Absorb got? will its almost complete incapability to take in Magnetic Damage be undone (a terrible bandaid at the time that should have been Damage hosted from another Absorb rather than an entire Damage Type)?
  • Spellbind and Lantern are still basically the same Ability. isn't this the opportunity to merge them and make a new one? they really share almost complete functionality with each other.
    • it's more than just small adjustments but it seems like a waste of an opportunity since it's so..... critical, if you will?

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10 hours ago, taiiat said:
  • Spellbind and Lantern are still basically the same Ability. isn't this the opportunity to merge them and make a new one? they really share almost complete functionality with each other.

I've seen this quite a lot, and while I do agree they are similar, I don't think they should be merged (at least not yet).  While new opportunities could be opened up by merging them, I think I've got a solid idea of the design intentions.

Spellbind is an AoE nuke that instantly stops everything in its area from shooting while making allies immune to statuses.  It's a snap-of-the-finger CC (that Titania herself should get the immunity benefit from regardless of her position relative to it) that can just lock down a pack of enemies right where they are, and with lower-level weapons can present opportunities to just push those enemies away.

Lantern serves a similar purpose in stopping enemies from shooting, but it's not as snappy and it's a little more expensive.  In exchange, now that the lantern will be tethered to the ground, enemies will group themselves up and suffer some damage while you or your team nuke them to kingdom come with aoe weapons and abilities (put a zenistar on top of it and go make a sandwich).

Spellbind is used to stop enemies from moving and shooting, Lantern is used to direct enemies into killboxes.

While it would be handy if they were merged (like, just having Spellbind be something else and Lantern be what it is except it also makes allies immune to statuses in its attract radius), I'm concerned that it would bring a host of other "balance" changes that could bork the frame.  If Pablo gets involved, I'd probably be more comfortable with it, but otherwise... let's just see how these changes feel.

ALSO DE PLEASE DON'T SLICE LANTERN'S RANGE IN EXCHANGE FOR BEING ABLE TO CAST FOUR OF IT

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Please, DE.

Apply reduced vacuum to energy orbs.

If you don't we'll be forced to switch between 17+m (or w/e is the vacuum range) above ground and floor to recast 1.

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3 hours ago, GideonWilhelm said:

I've seen this quite a lot, and while I do agree they are similar, I don't think they should be merged (at least not yet).  While new opportunities could be opened up by merging them, I think I've got a solid idea of the design intentions.
Spellbind is used to stop enemies from moving and shooting, Lantern is used to direct enemies into killboxes.

If Pablo gets involved, I'd probably be more comfortable with it, but otherwise... let's just see how these changes feel.

two different ways to skin a cat, but still skinning a cat. the features of both could be made to work together, allowing the Ability to both be a distraction type CC and just straight up CC.
and to protect Allies.
it can offer both at once, without making them conflict with each other. Energy Cost is of limited consequence in this game but pick your favorite of making both Casting modes 50E or have different Costs depending on whether you Cast the Spellbind half or the Lantern half.
it's gonna be a necessity at some point, as ultimately no matter what Stats get changed or what small adjustments are made, it's impossible for Titania to have more than 3 useful Abilities because one Ability is currently using two buttons.

 

what makes you think only one person works on __ things? i can assure you that in a game this size, nobody ever does. it's always a team effort. always.

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Titania main here.

Titania is a powerful glass cannon right now, with insane damage potential. She's nearly always built to focus on Razorwing and her Dex Pixia, needing high efficiency for her casting, reasonably high strength for her damage output, and on Blitz builds trading range for duration.

I never find myself casting Tribute, so it'll be nice to see it have some use; however the act of having to fly through the shadows endangers Titania since in higher level content, her only defense is range, staying high above the battlefield and capitalizing upon the accuracy reduction of enemies. Coming down to grab Dust might be more dangerous than staying up where it's safe, however. Thorns could turn this around, but it would require that it actually mitigate damage, instead of just reflecting some of it back. Titania can't afford to take damage, so Thorns in its current form (simply taking a percentage of the damage you do take and inflicting back on the enemy) isn't terribly helpful. Turn Thorns into an actual damage mitigation ability and you might start seeing Titania come down to pick it up; otherwise the Tributes are likely going to be left on the ground. Entangle seems a bit meh, but Fullmoon sounds marginally useful now that it impacts other companions and Razorflies (you hurt the butterflies feelings by not using their actual name! :p)

I've also seldom used Lantern for obvious reasons. I'm happy to see Lantern targets tethered, and while it might make it more useful in general gameplay, Titania is so mobility-based that I'm still not sure how viable it will be. I find it easier to fly through a bunch of enemies, spinning and gunning them down after passing them and moving on to the next group, rather than slowly drawing them into a big clump to kill. But, if the Lantern explosion is powerful enough, that may make it a moot point, allowing me to Lantern some point, work on clearing another area, and then exploding that point after a brief period.

I was hoping to see Razorflies get some improvement that doesn't require re-casting Razorwing to bring them back. They die pretty quickly and the process of re-upping them doesn't make a lot of sense either. I'd suggest, re-spawn a Razorfly every time Titania casts a spell in Razorwing. This encourages spell casting, has synergy with Blitz, requires you to "pay" energy for your Razorwings again, and is less clunky than just cycling it (which can be even more of a pain if you're using Energy Conversion and Growing Power).

Another thing I could suggest is that the force imparted on targets in Spellbind brought down a bit; in higher-levels, just a few shots can send a target spinning off into oblivion when you really are just trying to kill them for some specific purpose.

And lastly, Diwata (the exalted Melee) needs help. I get that Dex Pixia are Titania's focus, but the Diwata actually functions so poorly that using it is almost always a mistake. Even niche builds for it like using Healing Return and status procs to use it as an emergency heal are pretty bad... it should do enough damage to warrant ever actually using it, and with Titania's low health pool it's a death sentence attempting to melee anything in higher-level content. If Titania had a source of damage mitigation (like a reworked Thorns) and the Diwata did enough damage, you could possibly see a scenario where she uses it while grabbing Tributes.

Thanks for listening, DE. I enjoy playing Titania, even though she's a bit of a one-trick pony right now. I hope the changes you implement add a bit more variety and a little bit less frustration when playing with her. The Vacuum alone will be instrumental in allowing me to focus on and enjoy the combat rather than zooming around crashing into floors and walls while I try to keep Razorwing powered.

Edited by electr0freak

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my biggest concern about Titania is whenever I play her in tiny arcwing, I usually die immidiately when hitting objects. This triggers me alot. Pls fix it

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I guess it is too late now, but was it really necessary to take the damage out of Nyx's Psychic Bolts? That was my favorite build for her, I hate that now I have to use Nyx to just be a crowd control frame and that's it. I get decent damage with my build and the damage numbers showing through walls shows me exactly where to shoot with punch-through to finish enemies off. Sure, I get she isn't MEANT to be a damage frame, but I made it work out regardless. Now she can't even kill a level 1 enemy with her abilities alone, and she should be more than capable of popping a few low level brains without the need of mind controlling another level 1 to do it (obviously you have weapons to use, but if void magic cant kill a lvl 1 then something is wrong). Too often do I get complaints when using Nyx for cc or Khora with her Strangledome because of it making rounds of defense take a little bit longer. I stopped using Nyx for cc ages ago thanks to all the complaints I've gotten thanks to it.

I love using Nyx for her psychic bolts, she is my 2nd most used frame when you count both regulars and primes together. Why can't her bolts keep their damage? if they kept their damage AND did the debuff that is even better, but if I had to choose one I would keep the damage. It may be an unpopular opinion, but we can easily have both. When we have frames who got excellent damage scaling like nidus/octavia/saryn why do we draw the line on this underused frame? The armor debuffs would make the relatively small damage of the bolts get stronger after subsequent hits, why is that not allowed?

It sounds like all Nyx will accomplish in the end is being a worse version of Nova's ultimate. Nova's 4th ability can slow enemies and make them take more damage while also making them explode on death, all that in just 1 ability and it continues to affect enemies spawned long after it was originally cast. Nyx will need to use Chaos to give allies some protection less reliable than them all just being slow and spam Psychic Bolts to debuff them all in handfuls at a time (assuming it isn't just hitting the same targets multiple times). In the end Nyx will need to spend a lot more energy to have worse utility than Nova's 4th while also being spotty. I imagine even an augmented Mag would do far better than a Nyx ever could at stripping armor. Can we please at least keep the damage now that the bolts are debuffing enemies so that maybe they can be decent at getting in some more damage when hitting the same enemies multiple times? Maybe only let them do damage on enemies already stripped of armor?

I would hate to have to stop using Nyx, but I cant see how I can enjoy using her knowing my build will just be the cookie-cutter build everyone else has because its just the only realistic way to play her now with only small flavor tweaks. If it truly is too much for her to just keep a little damage then can we at least have 0's pop up where the enemies are so i can still 'sense' where they are? or show energy-color silhouettes (similar to argonak aiming) of enemies hit through walls/geometry to serve the same purpose?

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"If you know how to play Titania..."

I'll be honest, that statement sounded pretty patronizing. Tribute is still useless, because its buffs are useless. Lantern is going to be a sub-par CC ability, and from the sounds of it, we're probably not going to be able to revive teammates in Razorwing, or repopulate Razorflies in Razorwing. The ONLY good thing that came of the rework? We got a bump to base energy. That's it; nothing else has changed. Titania is still going to be limited to Razorwing, and that's it.

To say that I'm fuming right now is an understatement. To any Vauban mains out there? I'm sorry for talking smack about your boy, I really am. 'Cause now I know what it feels like.

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21 minutes ago, (XB1)Vile Slanders said:

"If you know how to play Titania..."

I'll be honest, that statement sounded pretty patronizing. Tribute is still useless, because its buffs are useless. Lantern is going to be a sub-par CC ability, and from the sounds of it, we're probably not going to be able to revive teammates in Razorwing, or repopulate Razorflies in Razorwing. The ONLY good thing that came of the rework? We got a bump to base energy. That's it; nothing else has changed. Titania is still going to be limited to Razorwing, and that's it.

To say that I'm fuming right now is an understatement. To any Vauban mains out there? I'm sorry for talking smack about your boy, I really am. 'Cause now I know what it feels like.

Calm down Jim. Put the gun down.

 

To be serious this is a buff across-the-board having all the buffs instead of arbitrary ones is a pretty sweet deal. To be more realistic a lot of people only used Titania for the razor Wing in the first place just like a lot of other warframes are only use for one if not two abilities at all. Most of these Warframe is consist of valkyr, Nova, and inaros. Really the only Warframe I can think of that has multiple uses that you still have to drastically change builds for is Equinox being either sleep or bleed and bonus damage which would be part of bleed or burst heal and that's about it. So far Titania I think this is at least a step in the right direction.

 

(Edit) To be more clear: WHAT WOULD YOU RATHER SEE INSTEAD DONE TO YOUR FAVORITE FRAME? 

Edited by NyxSilence
Clarity

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2 hours ago, Hobizz said:

my biggest concern about Titania is whenever I play her in tiny arcwing, I usually die immidiately when hitting objects. This triggers me alot. Pls fix it

This has been fixed for a while, are you on PC or console?

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4 hours ago, taiiat said:

two different ways to skin a cat, but still skinning a cat.

Perhaps I shouldn't have posted right before bed.  The other difference between the two, that I forgot before, isn't just how you use them, but the situations they can suit.

Spellbind is an easy-to-use "OH CRAP" CC because of its snappy cast time (at least with natural talent) and instant effect.

While Lantern takes time to cast, it holds out for much longer and grabs up new enemies that inter its radius, making it much more useful as an area denial or camp control.

That said, though, I wouldn't be opposed to "press button for Spellbind, hold button for Lantern." Though this would take away from what they're doing now, if we at least have the damn thing tethered on the ground with the attract radius it has now, I'd be happy to give up the other three lanterns.

4 hours ago, taiiat said:

what makes you think only one person works on __ things? i can assure you that in a game this size, nobody ever does. it's always a team effort. always.

I never said only one person works on things.  I said that when Pablo gets involved with a major rework/overhaul, it tends to be good.

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28 minutes ago, NyxSilence said:

Calm down Jim. Put the gun down.

 

To be serious this is a buff across-the-board having all the buffs instead of arbitrary ones is a pretty sweet deal. To be more realistic a lot of people only used Titania for the razor Wing in the first place just like a lot of other warframes are only use for one if not two abilities at all. Most of these Warframe is consist of valkyr, Nova, and inaros. Really the only Warframe I can think of that has multiple uses that you still have to drastically change builds for is Equinox being either sleep or bleed and bonus damage which would be part of bleed or burst heal and that's about it. So far Titania I think this is at least a step in the right direction.

 

(Edit) To be more clear: WHAT WOULD YOU RATHER SEE INSTEAD DONE TO YOUR FAVORITE FRAME? 

They never said you get all the buffs.  If you're coming from Lifeof Rio's video, he got a lot wrong when talking about the Titania changes.  They said that when you pick up the tribute, you get the max power of that specific tribute buff, not that you get all four tribute buffs.

I could be wrong about this, though.  The wording is weird and unclear.

Also us Titania mains still use our 1, we'll probably use our 3 a lot more once it doesn't fly everywhere, and despite these changes, titania players in high-level content will continue to not use her 2 except by accident because its buffs are hot potato garbage.

Edited by GideonWilhelm
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57 minutes ago, GideonWilhelm said:

That said, though, I wouldn't be opposed to "press button for Spellbind, hold button for Lantern."

Though this would take away from what they're doing now, if we at least have the damn thing tethered on the ground with the attract radius it has now, I'd be happy to give up the other three lanterns.

right - so having both at once (they're kinda like an Equinox style two face of a similar idea so they fit well).

it doesn't really have to come at the sacrifice of anything else, though? still 4 Lanterns, you Cast them just the same as you would for a single. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
sure, you can't make a pile and detonate at once but Casting a 5th detonating the first for example, still lets you role play as a flying Grenade Launcher (even though i'm not really sure how the explosion side of Lantern ever fit the theme but i digress). can compensate for the extra Casting by having further Casts when a Lantern(s) is already active reduces the Energy Cost.

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2 minutes ago, taiiat said:

right - so having both at once (they're kinda like an Equinox style two face of a similar idea so they fit well).

it doesn't really have to come at the sacrifice of anything else, though? still 4 Lanterns, you Cast them just the same as you would for a single. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
sure, you can't make a pile and detonate at once but Casting a 5th detonating the first for example, still lets you role play as a flying Grenade Launcher (even though i'm not really sure how the explosion side of Lantern ever fit the theme but i digress). can compensate for the extra Casting by having further Casts when a Lantern(s) is already active reduces the Energy Cost.

Aiming at it to detonate it could work as well.  I just feel like if you have this ability that does multiple things, DE would probably balk at:
1. you can press it to stun things
2. you can press it to make allies immune to debuffs
3. you can hold it to make a lantern
4. you can hold it on something affected by the lantern to detonate it
5. you can cast four of them
6. you can cast the stun on a cluster of things affected by the lantern to hold them in place even longer

that's an ability that does six things now, and while that last thing is just kind of a handy self-synergy, that's a hell of a lot of things for a single ability to do.

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8 minutes ago, GideonWilhelm said:

that's an ability that does six things now, and while that last thing is just kind of a handy self-synergy, that's a hell of a lot of things for a single ability to do.

sounds like how Video Games are supposed to be to me - simple to operate, but can do a lot of things so your tools have depth. 

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Just now, taiiat said:

sounds like how Video Games are supposed to be to me - simple to operate, but can do a lot of things so your tools have depth. 

Well, here's the thing.  Game Design has this concept called 'scope'.  When you design an ability system in your game, you set a 'scope' of the number of things an ability should typically do, and you allow the occasional outlier for necessity.  For instance, Ivara's quiver is four abilities on one button, but each ability is designed to serve a unique purpose and does exactly one thing.  There are other warframes with abilities that synergize, such as Nezha's burning chakram and spears causing the chakram to split and go after several enemies at once.

Most abilities in Warframe are designed to do one or two things at once, or do three or four things when used in conjunction with other abilities. What I described is an ability with more functions in one ability than most Warframes get in their entire kit.  This is WAY beyond the typical scope of a single warframe ability, and can easily set a precedent for the playerbase demanding individual abilities that are practically entire kits all on their own.

I'm all for synergy, and that's why I want Pablo to take a look at Titania.  But merging Titania's 1 and 3 into a single ability is something that must fundamentally change all of the involved effects in order to remain within scope.

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6 hours ago, electr0freak said:

I was hoping to see Razorflies get some improvement that doesn't require re-casting Razorwing to bring them back. They die pretty quickly and the process of re-upping them doesn't make a lot of sense either. I'd suggest, re-spawn a Razorfly every time Titania casts a spell in Razorwing. This encourages spell casting, has synergy with Blitz, requires you to "pay" energy for your Razorwings again, and is less clunky than just cycling it (which can be even more of a pain if you're using Energy Conversion and Growing Power).

I would like to see lantern targets explode with razor flies on death. or if damaged.

 

also (below) diwata acts like archwing melee.. it nearly teleports you to a target from a fair distance. the lite use i’ve made of tribute and diwata seems to get you to the tribute fast. if it was a true mechanic, it would be like a hornet dashing at an enemy.. a blink move on her would be even more terrifying.

6 hours ago, electr0freak said:

And lastly, Diwata (the exalted Melee) needs help.

Edited by (PS4)teacup775

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23 hours ago, taiiat said:

 

  • Spellbind and Lantern are still basically the same Ability. isn't this the opportunity to merge them and make a new one? they really share almost complete functionality with each other.
    • it's more than just small adjustments but it seems like a waste of an opportunity since it's so..... critical, if you will?

FOR REAL!!! the only current difference is one makes people float in an aoe and gives cc immunity(kinda wonky), and the other makes a single person(for now) float and attract enemies(and has some sort of cap because it starts to not captivate everyone at some certain number). they can just keep it like spellbind(aoe targeting), keep either the cc immunity buff or enemy luring, and then use the other thing to include in a new ability.

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the lure effect from the 3rd ability could be moved onto something completely new, maybe casting a taunt on a certain enemy, making them appear to be a foreign threat to their allies so they attack them, this could also be used in razorwing to refocus all of the razorflies that might still be alive onto one target and one area 

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4 hours ago, GideonWilhelm said:

Most abilities in Warframe are designed to do one or two things at once, or do three or four things when used in conjunction with other abilities. What I described is an ability with more functions in one ability than most Warframes get in their entire kit.  This is WAY beyond the typical scope of a single warframe ability, and can easily set a precedent for the playerbase demanding individual abilities that are practically entire kits all on their own.

i've been wanting Abilities with depth since forever ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

an Ability that has a short list of things it can do vs "you play this Warframe by pressing the four buttons in this one order", isn't crazy talk. an Ability would still do something when you just use it anytime, and may be affected by whether Allies or Enemies are around.
and then the other Abilities should have some use together, all of them mind you - each Ability should do something useful in conjunction to another of the Abilities. that doesn't have to be some unique mechanic, things that naturally benefit each other indirectly is great too. (like using Pull to move Enemies into Magnetize for example, very simple but a great pairing) just should all spiderweb with each other in some way ideally.
then you get into the really cool stuff - the unique mechanics. a few shovel loads of them would do it, for me.

yes, i absolutely want my Warframes to do cool things and keep me totally active throughout my Gameplay.
i don't want to Cast Spores with Toxic Lash active and poke that Enemy and t hen go AFK but Casting Miasma once in a while to force spreading and Kill faster.... i want to Cast Spores and apply it at a Support level to the Enemies in the area, and then use the scaling power awarded to it by my Melee Weapon through Toxic Lash to create Spore Bursts for localized areas of very high Damage to turn the Support Ability into a Damage Ability. and even then i'll take more. (the idlegaming nature of current Saryn vs the deep mechanics that Saryn 2015 offered)

and that... isn't crazy. because Abilities can still follow "simple to use, but providing great depth" and achieve that. each piece is simple to use, but there are numerous pieces to the puzzle. nobody looks at a like... 100 piece puzzle and says its impossible to know what to do, eh? the pieces fit together in a simple way, but there's still numerous of them.

 

but that's getting a bit long so i digress.

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