Nyx & Titania Dev Workshop

[Yunjuwo]

No one seems to be able to agree on how the vacuum mechanic works, so maybe the problem isn't as simple as its range, was what I was thinking. And "having to" or "being forced" to activate something manually similar to itzal's 3, works because then we can choose when we want to pick up energy orbs. Granted it would also require the manual pickup of everything else besides orbs (e.g. resources, mods, etc.) but that could easily be fixed by giving razorwing a unique vacuum that attracts everything except energy orbs, and giving it the option to perform an itzal 3 to suck up energy orbs when the player finally wished to do so. We're all here because we want the best for titania/nyx, but nothing's perfect. There's only so much "how about this" and "no, let's do this instead" we can say before it becomes nitpicking.

Having differing opinions and ideas does not devalue the opinions and ideas of either party.

[selig_fay]

11 часов назад, Yun_Woo-Seok сказал:

No one seems to be able to agree on how the vacuum mechanic works, so maybe the problem isn't as simple as its range, was what I was thinking. And "having to" or "being forced" to activate something manually similar to itzal's 3, works because then we can choose when we want to pick up energy orbs. Granted it would also require the manual pickup of everything else besides orbs (e.g. resources, mods, etc.) but that could easily be fixed by giving razorwing a unique vacuum that attracts everything except energy orbs, and giving it the option to perform an itzal 3 to suck up energy orbs when the player finally wished to do so. We're all here because we want the best for titania/nyx, but nothing's perfect. There's only so much "how about this" and "no, let's do this instead" we can say before it becomes nitpicking.

Play Mag without a vacuum using a passive ability, and you will realize that this is not the good idea. 

Well, as usual, I can repeat that you won't solve the energy problem this way, because you are trying to solve the energy drain problem equal to 1.25 and think that saving energy will actually help, but the truth is that you don't take other abilities into account. The Itzal wormhole costs 75 energy by default. And you will have to spam this thing to get the same effect that you get for free now. Yes, it also provides CC, but I think it's better to improve Latern in this regard.

Up to level 200 and if we don't have the conditions for increased eximuses, arcane energyze solves the problem, because most players don't use abilities other than razorwing and Tribute. But now, the appearance of energy leeches just resets your energy to 0 very quickly, because there are more of them than you are able to kill, the drop of energy orbs is very small to suppress this and you are not able to restore energy with zenuric in your free time from energy leeches. (5 seconds of zenurik is the equivalent of a small orb of energy, think about it). Now add more spam abilities that can get better and that I want to use. Players are not able to solve this problem in any way, except to use razorwing as a temporary measure and completely abandon the rest of the abilities. And saving energy orbs doesn't solve it for Titania, because you need them all the time in critical situations. I don't mind the companion vacuum, but as an ability, it's too painfully. 

Titania can make a great Ganner. Spam abilities also do a bad thing for Titania to become a gunner - they block your shooting when you spam. I would like to have abilities that I don't need to use all the time, because, instead of just clicking on the heads of enemies, you will have to spam more to just pick up resources. You know, it's not exactly fun and it's not very effective.

[Kontrollo]

On 2020-01-22 at 10:34 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Long overdue, but we are working on more Titania items! Short gif of one of the more major changes: choose-your-Tribute. This will allow you to get the Auras you want, when you want them. We will have more details to share soon - expect a batch of changes that aim to make Titania more responsive and usable!

Am I right in assuming that you're still taking feedback for Nyx, too?

 

So I guess the Gokstad Officers in Empyrean were a little experiment on enemy defences. The problem with disabling certain things outright is that it can make some abilities/augments rather pointless. Nyx' new Psychic Bolts simply do nothing at all. If that's the direction you want to take and "elite" enemies will simply ignore some fundamental aspects of the damage system, then I'd rather have the old Radiation procs back.

Please switch the Railjack Tactical from Mind Control to Chaos. Mind Control is simply bad. Quoting myself from another thread:

On 2019-12-23 at 6:37 PM, Kontrollo said:

Thought I'd take the time and record it. Here's one of the many ways the Tactical Mind Control is a failure:

Problems:

• As shown in the clip, sometimes the AI simply bugs out and does nothing.
  • As long as an enemy is neutral like that, they're not even a good diversion because they don't build aggro.
     
• There's a huge target radius for the ability, but one single enemy is picked, and randomly -- which often results in getting a weak "chainsaw butcher guy" instead of a strong one.
   
• There's no way to end it early, so that guy sticks around until the ability ends. Hopefully he has received enough damage in the meantime, otherwise he'd just go back to wrecking the ship. Having to keep track of these guys is just annoying.
   
• With how overtuned these Railjack enemies are, they don't even scratch each other. They're a mild diversion at best.

 

TL;DR: Mind Control sucks balls.

 

=> Give us Chaos as Tactical.

 

Edit: P.S. There's no reason not to let us access the Tactical menu while in Absorb.

[Yunjuwo]

8 hours ago, zhellon said:

But now, the appearance of energy leeches just resets your energy to 0 very quickly

I don't see how mag's passive works similar to itzal's 3 in any way besides them both attracting items. You can just have the itzal 3 on razorwing cost no energy and work with no animation so that it's free and doesn't interrupt your shooting.

And the problem with energy leeches is the same problem that corpus scrambulas had before they were fixed--you can't see their aura. If we could they'd be a much fairer enemy to encounter as the mission progressed, but back to the topic.

If a one second downtime is really that damning to suffer through, spamming abilities wouldn't hinder your damage output with a simple change: make said abilites one-handed actions.

[selig_fay]

2 часа назад, Yun_Woo-Seok сказал:

If a one second downtime is really that damning to suffer through, spamming abilities wouldn't hinder your damage output with a simple change: make said abilites one-handed actions.

That would be good. Titania currently uses one-handed animation, but it doesn't work as a one-handed animation. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind itzal 3 if it created a funnel for a while, or if it immediately freezes enemies, like augment did. But:

1) I should still be able to use a vacuum and it's not up for discussion.

2) If the opponents you have pull are not stunned for a while , this ability will be useless for glass canon build, because the opponents will simply kill you very quickly. If it is a remote ability (as spellbind is now), it will no longer work as a vacuum, which means it is contrary to your idea.

The problem is that if Titania gets a more energy-balanced mechanic, these tambourine dances will no longer be necessary.

[Yunjuwo]

Sure. I see no reason why we can't have both vacuum and itzal's 3--we already have vacuum on razorwing right now, so this would just be an additional thing. And this is supposed to work similar to itzal's 3: pulls in everything within a certain radius around you(it's not going to be a remote vacuum like [Greedy Pull] because nobody would use that). As for cc'ing pulled enemies, the ability could just not pull enemies at all in the first place, problem solved. If it sucks up energy orbs alone, then it could cost 0 energy since that's pretty much just a QoL addition. However, if it sucks/cc's enemies as well, depending on its stats, I can see 25 energy being a fair cost to cast it.

A simpler idea is to allow us to hold the 4 button while we're in razorwing to switch between two vacuum types: vacuum #1 is what we have now and #2 would be the same thing except it doesn't pick up energy orbs. This way you can save those energy orbs for later when you really need it, and it's less work for the devs.

[Starz]

On 2020-01-26 at 1:02 AM, Yun_Woo-Seok said:

A simpler idea is to allow us to hold the 4 button while we're in razorwing to switch between two vacuum types: vacuum #1 is what we have now and #2 would be the same thing except it doesn't pick up energy orbs.

Or you know, make it actually something useful, say respawning Razorflies.

[Yunjuwo]

4 hours ago, Pixzia said:

Or you know, make it actually something useful, say respawning Razorflies.

That has nothing to do with the topic at hand regarding razorwing's vacuum. Feel free to start a new topic, but you don't have to devalue others' ideas to do so.

As for razorfly recovery, it already has potential to become more streamlined via the changes original suggested by DE Reb. If tribute is really going to be changed to a "whichever buff you want, whenever you want" ability, the current method of recovering razorflies(cast tribute on an enemy then collect their soul to recover 1 razorfly) has the potential to be buffed as well. Personally, I'm hoping it's "cast tribute whenever you want to gain whichever buff you want, and also revive all dead razorflies".

edit: While on the topic of razorflies, it would be great if their overall survivability and dmg were boosted.

Titania's Health & Shields after mods + (bonus Health and Shields × Ability Strength)

is the immediate thought that comes to mind for me. Their ridiculous armor values are obviously fine as they are right now. As for dmg, giving razorflies their own critical chance, critical dmg, and status chance values, as well as letting them use mods from titania's diwata, would allow for more customization and importance to both the razorflies and diwata. 

[Starz]

4 hours ago, Yun_Woo-Seok said:

As for razorfly recovery, it already has potential to become more streamlined via the changes original suggested by DE Reb. If tribute is really going to be changed to a "whichever buff you want, whenever you want" ability, the current method of recovering razorflies(cast tribute on an enemy then collect their soul to recover 1 razorfly) has the potential to be buffed as well. Personally, I'm hoping it's "cast tribute whenever you want to gain whichever buff you want, and also revive all dead razorflies".

I like this idea. Would actually be useful if you got more Razorflies back from Tributes, since it cost too much energy right now if you wanted to bring ALL your dead flies back with Tribute atm.

4 hours ago, Yun_Woo-Seok said:

While on the topic of razorflies, it would be great if their overall survivability and dmg were boosted.

Titania's Health & Shields after mods + (bonus Health and Shields × Ability Strength)

is the immediate thought that comes to mind for me. Their ridiculous armor values are obviously fine as they are right now. As for dmg, giving razorflies their own critical chance, critical dmg, and status chance values, as well as letting them use mods from titania's diwata, would allow for more customization and importance to both the razorflies and diwata. 

Funny enough Mod-able Razorflies would fix this issue as well as the Vacuum debate...

 

[selig_fay]

I think the razorfly system should be better in terms of controlling razorfly. Quantity control is not the only problem. Razorfly cannot be given the command to follow Titania and they are actually always left to attack enemies in the place of their spawn. And they can't be disabled in razorwing, so if the normal form gets them too, you won't be able to disable them, which has some problems.

[Starz]

4 hours ago, zhellon said:

I think the razorfly system should be better in terms of controlling razorfly. Quantity control is not the only problem. Razorfly cannot be given the command to follow Titania and they are actually always left to attack enemies in the place of their spawn. And they can't be disabled in razorwing, so if the normal form gets them too, you won't be able to disable them, which has some problems.

Would be cool if they took a Khora approach, having 2-3 different modes. (only problem is you would now have 2 cycle abilities)

Attack: Act like they do now, flying around swarming enemies.

Defend: Will only attack enemies in X Range of you.

Guard: Will fly around Titania, providing damage reduction. (possibly healing you as well)

 

Another way to implement  this would be precepts you could pick when modding Razorflies. (if it were to be added)

 

[selig_fay]

50 минут назад, Pixzia сказал:

Would be cool if they took a Khora approach, having 2-3 different modes. (only problem is you would now have 2 cycle abilities)

Attack: Act like they do now, flying around swarming enemies.

Defend: Will only attack enemies in X Range of you.

Guard: Will fly around Titania, providing damage reduction. (possibly healing you as well)

 

Another way to impendent this would be precepts you could pick when modding Razorflies. (if it were to be added)

The problem is that the Tribute already occupies this mechanic. If they reworked the tribute so that there were only three buffs, which would also be modes of operation for razorfly.

[Starz]

1 minute ago, zhellon said:

The problem is that the Tribute already occupies this mechanic. If they reworked the tribute so that there were only three buffs, which would also be modes of operation for razorfly.

That is why another suggestion was to make them precepts that you would mod for on the Razorfiles (if they allowed you to mod them). Not great, but better than what we have now.

[Aadi880]

Given how squishy she is, Titania really needs some way to heal herself, and NOT being forced to use excessive damage reduction mods.

[selig_fay]

22 минуты назад, Pixzia сказал:

That is why another suggestion was to make them precepts that you would mod for on the Razorfiles (if they allowed you to mod them). Not great, but better than what we have now.

Well, I would prefer that their behavior could be changed in combat.

12 минут назад, Aadi880 сказал:

Given how squishy she is, Titania really needs some way to heal herself, and NOT being forced to use excessive damage reduction mods.

Titania can already ignore most of the damage due to small hitboxes and razorfly. DR mods and healing are just personal modding tools.(like armor mods) I use DR mods and I don't see anything wrong with it. But I also see that DR mods are just an auxiliary tool for increasing survival, since I go through most sortie missions getting zero damage, although Titania doesn't have invulnerability or invisibility. The only problem is keeping the normal form alive, but the normal form is actually useless and simple invisibility in a normal form would help a lot and would have a lot to do with the concept of fairies, because the true form of a fairy is very difficult to see, and a small form is a fake in most concepts.

[Aadi880]

23 minutes ago, zhellon said:

 

Titania can already ignore most of the damage due to small hitboxes and razorfly. DR mods and healing are just personal modding tools.(like armor mods) I use DR mods and I don't see anything wrong with it. But I also see that DR mods are just an auxiliary tool for increasing survival, since I go through most sortie missions getting zero damage, although Titania doesn't have invulnerability or invisibility. The only problem is keeping the normal form alive, but the normal form is actually useless and simple invisibility in a normal form would help a lot and would have a lot to do with the concept of fairies, because the true form of a fairy is very difficult to see, and a small form is a fake in most concepts.

Yes, she can ignore most of the damage, but this is implying that I am in razorwing mode.

What if I'm not? I have guns that I want to use as well, along with a melee that is not a Diwata.

Titania is a warframe needs her 4th ability in order to do ANYTHING. Without her 4, she effectively does not exist in the game.

her normal form lacks survivability, lacks support help, lacks any proper CC. (Lantern is not a CC ability. Its a hindrance.). Her first 3 abilities needs a complete overhaul. Not QoLs like "selecting our own tribute buffs", but needs to be replaced entirely. Dust is arguably her only useful tribute, until you reach lv70s, where the buff effectively is removed. Spellbind is used as a hard trigger for razorwing blitz, and not used for it's lackluster CC (it needs to affect all enemies not the ones I'm looking at ffs.). Thorns give 40% DR, but is that really useful when I want to take her to high levels, where Dust does not work?

Also WHY TF does Entangle exist? its literally does nothing.

I can only imagine the pain Nyx players are having, considering Titania is still somewhat more used than Nyx is.

[selig_fay]

2 минуты назад, Aadi880 сказал:

What if I'm not? I have guns that I want to use as well, along with a melee that is not a Diwata

This is why I want to use a normal weapon in razorwing. If I want to use a normal weapon in a normal Titania form, I'll just take the Wisp.

[Krenlik]

On 2020-01-21 at 2:42 PM, (XB1)Vile Slanders said:

Finally, Tie Razorflies into Titania's Passive Ability; make it so Titania can generate (and maintain) Razorflies outside of Razorwing; maybe add a fancy Butterfly stencil meter that counts how many times Titania has cast her abilities, which resets and grants a single Razorfly once an established quota of casts has been met (Every 5 casts, Titania generates a Razorfly in and out of Razorwing; up to a cap of 10 Razorflies total; I.E. use Abilities 50 separate instances, receive 10 Razorflies.).

Those, combined with the modular Razorfly suggestion listed above, comprise my recommendations for a Titania Rework; adjusting her present kit to accommodate performance expectations. Wukong & Nezha have received jaw droppingly well conceived Reworks that have elevated them from Bottom Tier to Top Tier. Adopting the adjustments listed above should achieve a similar result for Titania, by making every single skill of hers more valuable and less situational/hindering.

 

Better than a cast count would be timed generation, similar to Octavia's energy regen.  Just automatic razorflies at all time (unless they get killed, at which point you may need to hole up to get your entourage back.)

 

 

[Starz]

54 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

Not QoLs like "selecting our own tribute buffs", but needs to be replaced entirely

Honestly her 2 COULD be useful with more QoL/Buffs. They all need to be reworked

Dust is RNG based and has scaling problems.

Thorns could be renamed and just give DR in an higher amount or make the Reflect damage 5,000%, but then the argument becomes "why have reflect damage on a squishy frame"

Entangled needs to be completely replaced, or slow fire-rate. (also buffed maybe?)

Full Moon should buff all your weapons not just companions. 

 

Making the enemy that you casted Tribute on have a higher chance to drop energy orbs would be a really nice.

54 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

lacks any proper CC

Her 1 is a really good form of CC. The main problem is that it makes it annoying to kill enemies unless you can 1 shot them. Which is a pretty easy fix in my opinion.

Another issue is that it only makes enemies drop their guns, not fully disarm them. This also can sometimes slow down missions as the enemy will always run back to pick up its gun.

This would make spellbind an amazing "Survivability ability" for Titania, enemies can't kill you if they can't shoot you or melee you. Not to mention the Status removal.

 

54 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

Lantern is not a CC ability. Its a hindrance.

The biggest problem with lantern is the line of sight aspect of the ability. This ability is amazing when it works. Key word being when.

Enemies being able to move it is a big problem. Players being able to move it is also somewhat of a problem but not as bad as enemies moving it in my opinion.

Some QoL changes to make it a lot more reliable would make this ability easily one of the best CC abilities in the game.

Allowing it to proc heat in its damage radius would also be nice.

 

I could care less if they scrapped her first 3 abilities but I feel like most of the hate she gets for her 1 & 3 are that the enemies float off too much. Plus 70% of the time it just does not feel rewarding to use them.

 

 

[Yunjuwo]

I just tested a max rank titania's lantern with no mods against various lv100s. Super disappointing.

Next, I tested the same thing but with a max strength build. Not only was it highly impractical but it was still disappoiting.

Finally, I tested a heat only chromatic blade with 100% status chance, just enough dmg to mimic a max rank titania lantern with no mods, and all other mods on excal and exalted blade were taken off. This was basically a "what if titania's lantern could proc" test. Using the same group of mixed lv100s, making sure to avoid headshot bonuses, and hitting only once per second, I gotta say... it's not bad. The base stats of the ability itself could use a slight buff, and that "if you hit a lantern'd enemy they bounce like a balloon" aspect has gotta go imo. But, if lantern could just proc its dmg, it would actually be pretty viable as a hybrid cc/dmg ability.

[selig_fay]

1 час назад, Pixzia сказал:

Dust is RNG based and has scaling problems.

Not quite right. Razorwing's Evasion is an RNG. The accuracy of enemies is a characteristic of the spread of the enemy's ammo. And I think you're increasing the angle of this spread. 

[Starz]

1 hour ago, zhellon said:

Not quite right. Razorwing's Evasion is an RNG. The accuracy of enemies is a characteristic of the spread of the enemy's ammo. And I think you're increasing the angle of this spread. 

My bad.

Still simi-RNG though, making a circle bigger or smaller does not decrease the chances of something landing in the circle just the chances of it hitting an arena in that circle. Which still makes it rng as there is nothing too say that an enemy could not hit the same spot 7 times. It is still within the cone.

2 hours ago, Yun_Woo-Seok said:

But, if lantern could just proc its dmg, it would actually be pretty viable as a hybrid cc/dmg ability

The dmg itself is not my reason for allowing it to proc its status. The ability to temporarily remove half an enemy's armor that gets close to the lantern it why this would be a nice change. (I just care more for the proc in general than the added benefit to Lantern's dps)

  

2 hours ago, Yun_Woo-Seok said:

I just tested a max rank titania's lantern with no mods against various lv100s. Super disappointing.

Care to explain why you were disappointed? Were you only testing the damage or the ability as a whole?

[selig_fay]

Well, if we talk about the Lantern as a CC, then I would just make it an object, because it will be more convenient to position it, unlike flying enemies. Could also make a couple of settings, like taking spellbind's ability to make opponents drop their weapons. And speed up the speed of enemies moving to the center of the Lantern, so that the Lantern becomes more effective for collecting enemies in a pile. (Nova has already tested this mechanic and says that people love when mobs are accelerated, but so far mobs don't fire.)  Just make sure that Titania can take the Lantern in hand, because this is a cool mechanic that will actually allow you to bring enemies to where you need them. (nidus will be pleased). What about ArmorStrip? Well, if the enemies are in a pile, then pox will solve the problem faster than any ability.

In fact, if you have a good CC, then the damage ability (unless it's nuck, which I wouldn't want to see on Titania) can simply be replaced with an AOE weapon. In principle, Lentz + Lantern works now, but very poorly.

Yes, I know this is a massive disarm + Vauban vertex in the form of AI control, but it may work very well, given the mobility of Titania, it may give CC to the entire map.

[Starz]

27 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Well, if we talk about the Lantern as a CC, then I would just make it an object, because it will be more convenient to position it, unlike flying enemies. Could also make a couple of settings, like taking spellbind's ability to make opponents drop their weapons. And speed up the speed of enemies moving to the center of the Lantern, so that the Lantern becomes more effective for collecting enemies in a pile.

Basically most of the changes I want.

 

27 minutes ago, zhellon said:

What about ArmorStrip? Well, if the enemies are in a pile, then pox will solve the problem faster than any ability.

Still feel like it being able to proc heat would be an overall benefit.

[selig_fay]

17 часов назад, Pixzia сказал:

Still feel like it being able to proc heat would be an overall benefit.

As a maintenance of the heat status, Yes. If you have a powerful weapon with heat proc, then due to the endless accumulation of damage, this can be useful. Of course, I don't know how useful this will be at the 9999 level, but at the 1000 level it is quite possible. You can, of course, do as with Vauban, but I would prefer that the damage razorfly scaled than Lantern.