Nyx & Titania Dev Workshop

[Chaemyerelis]

It would also be nice for pets to stay active while titania is in razorwing form.

[RockCambo]

As one of several Nyx mains, I approve of these changes.

[Recel]

I'll be honest, I'm not really looking forward to the Nyx changes looking at the post...

Her passive is simply worse. "You don't get hit now if RNG" from the current "you don't get hit ever again if RNG".

I'm not entirely sure what to think of Mind Control. The damage buff looks nice, but I still can't trust the AI to actually shoot and not just run around or hide. I'm also don't like how the damage buff needs to be applied. It essentially extends the "cast time" of the skill by four seconds of you having to pump as much bullet up your new, friendly Moas coolant pipe as humanly possible.
Also, following behaviour is generally useless unless they teleport to you like pets. The reason is simple: speed. Mobs can't keep up with a warframe. And when they can than it just means there wasn't much need to follow anyway.

Psychic Bolts sounded great before I remembered that the projectiles home in on the closest targets, which means you won't be really able to prioritise what targets to soften up. Also, slowing the infested is kind of... useless. I never once had a scenario where I thought "Oh, I wish they were slower.".
Deactivating ancient aura can be good, depending on how it works. Do I have to hit the ancient for that? Because than it's back to square one with the homing, only worse since you will have other infested units between you and ancients most of the time. And even if it removes the aura from any unit you still can't prioritise targets.

New Absorb is old Absorb, but now with rainbow damage, if I read it right. It's something, I guess.

[Mr.SpookSpook]

Ah well, Titania will keep gathering dust... These changes barely help.

[peterc3]

Why not put this into the Dev Workshop thread?

[(PSN)Solbudguyslash]

 These changes look pretty good. It begs the question though if perhaps Wukong is up for some revisiting?

[(PSN)Webkestar]

It'd be fun if we you guys just take the absorb damage and let her channel all the damage as a beam. Similar to how Harrow's Covenant works, but instead o af crit chance buff she shoots a beam with the damage based on the amount she has absorbed. It'd prolly work if it has some multiplier and status effect and infinite punch through, except for walls. Just because it's cool.

[Chroia]

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Nyx

YES! \o/

 

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

New Passive: Enemies can't seem to truly target Nyx and all receive an accuracy debuff against her.

Not amazingly thematic, but fits well enough, and I won't say no to some extra safety.

 

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Mind Control:

AFTER:
Nyx still picks a single target within Range and brings them to the Tenno side for a given Duration - but now she can multiply the damage output of that enemy by her own hand!!

I look forward to trying this out.

How does it interact with Mind Freak?

 

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Psychic Bolts:

AFTER:
This is no longer a flat damage ability, but it is now a debuff. Awesome All enemies hit lose a % of defenses (values for Shield/Armor have 20/40/60/80% of defenses removed) for a short duration (5/7/9/11 seconds), making them easier to kill / kill each other when combined with Chaos! (mostly) AWESOME! :D Infested will receive a slowing behaviour (not on the same % curve as defenses, still tweaking) + deactivation of Ancient's auras. See notes

Okay, so. A bunch of stuff here.

* I'm assuming that duration and effect scale with duration and (more importantly) strength?
Requiring more modifiers will remove a bunch of her build flexibility (if you care to use this in the first place), but you're getting another tool into your kit. We'll see.

* If you're serious about fighting Corpus, you're probably using some (non-frame) method of bypassing their shields to begin with - toxin damage or procs, gas procs.
On top of that - while I haven't actually looked at Orb Vallis unit stats, the Corpus heavies tend towards 'low on shields, high on HP' (probably directly as a result of the above).
As such, I'm not sure how impactful reducing enemy shields will actually be. And you're potentially opening an avenue to cheesing bosses with damage immunity shields. Again. (Check patch history for 'Shield Disruption' if you don't recall what I'm talking about.)

* Also, and especially re: the Infested - How does this ability propagate? Same as current? Because I'm not a fan of unreliability, and forcing spam to assure coverage is just more incentive to build for max eff (as if you weren't doing that already).

* Speaking of the Infested: Slow is a good (defensive) counter to the Infested, but Chaos already CCs them as well as stopping auras from spreading, with hugely better coverage to boot.
While - if I'm reading this correctly - PB will remove the aura from the Ancient itself as well, this depends on it actually targetting said Ancient... see above concern.
So, am I overlooking some particular benefit?

Might need some more thought.

 

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Absorb:
AFTER:
Nyx absorbs all incoming damage and channels that collected energy into an explosive radial discharge - but now we've made the damage type output dynamic based on incoming damage types. If it is fed in, it feeds out!

Absorb is a very unique power - when Augmented it allows for a completely different kind of play. Alone, Absorb gives Nyx immortality in a pinch and can CC with knockdown, but now we've just added another edge in giving it dynamic Damage.    

tl;dr - Please give Absorb some more thought.

-----

As a damage ability, Absorb has both bad damage and terrible range.
And even if it had god-killer tier damage or incredible CC, it'd still be of limited use, due to the 10m (5 if augmented) base range - Its potential is limited by its application.
And this is before getting into open world maps.

I did the back-of-the-napkin math at some point, and if I recall correctly, in ideal circumstances a max Primed Flow Nyx Prime can trade her entire energy pool for under 10k paper damage (at default strength).
Even assuming that the adaptive damage mechanic is effective (Corpus tend towards puncture damage - bad vs. shields, Grineer tend towards impact/slash - bad against armor), that's not an impressive conversion ratio, and that's before taking into consideration that enemy HP scales a lot faster than enemy damage to being with.

 

As a defensive ability, default Absorb is both a self-disable, and of strictly limited use as enemy scaling increases, due to the direct 'damage taken costs energy' factor.
Sure, it's fine discount invulnerability for most star chart content, but for any more serious content, you're both taking on a limited tank, and can't use parkour to be tankier by reducing enemy accuracy either.

With, again, a max P Flow Nyx P, against non-enhanced sortie 3 enemies, I expect less - potentially much less than 20 seconds of effect.
And sure, 20 seconds is a lot of time, but as a trade off of a full tank (~637 energy)? Way overcosted for the type of horde-mode game that Warframe currently is.
 

It, quite simply, does not perform well either defensively,
let alone compared with its direct-effect 'buff' competition. (Iron Skin, Warding Halo, Inaros, Nidus, Oberon, Trinity, Wukong, etc.), let alone the far more powerful (assuming no power disablers) indirect 'debuff' options;
nor offensively.

 

*****

Titania never 'clicked' with me, so all I can say is - those changes look good.

Good enough? That, I can't say.

[DaedNevar]

46 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

Tribute:

BEFORE:
Tribute had to be cast multiple times on multiple enemy types to build up 4 unique Auras on Titania. The problem here was... too much casting.

AFTER:
Simply getting 1 type of Tribute will be enough to have its maximum power. You can continue to acquire tributes to refresh the Duration, but you no longer need to build them up.

when it comes to tribute, PLEASE let the buffs lasting time scale with duration. or let them refresh whenever you pick up a different new one(this could be an augment, but it would need something on top of it)

[Phernok]

I would like to be able to leave the transfer while the razorwing of titania is active. (Use operator)

[Randooming]

I love Titania and to say this really hurt me: The Titania buffs are not enoth. She is still sooooooooo bad.

Her basic 3 abilities currently have no use.

Her 1 has to low AoE for it to be a good cc tool. If it didnt need to target an enemy and just effected every enemy and ally arround you this ability would be fine. Still it would need a faster castanimation.

Her 2 is just so bad. If the ability would stay like this it would need som big buffs/changes to the bonuses you get + the bonus need to vacuable.

Her 3 is allmost fine. Sadly the cc is not reliable since the targets fly all over the place and the cc gets broken with line if sight. The lanturned enemys just need to stay in place.

The change to her 4 i really like.

[ShurikGesu]

Titania needs more than vacuum and instant tribute buffs, tribute is a bad ability, when in razorwing I lose my companion so theres no point in full moon, dust is ok, entangle needs a lot more range to be usable and 25% is too little for a debuff and thorns is not usable with titania being such a squishy frame, she is gonna die at moderate lvls and thorns isnt gonna help.

Now lantern needs a bit more range and most importantly, stay stationary, it will be useless even with 4 lanters if all 4 are floating 50 mtrs above ground, out of enemy range.

Pls change tribute with more useful buffs, the only good one is dust.

[Punchedface]

Will Psychic Bolt still be cast as projectiles or reworked as an AoE? If it's still cast as projectiles, will it seek out random enemies or will it seek enemies that aren't debuffed yet?

[DaedNevar]

 

1 hour ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

 

changing Tribute into a pickpocket skill like prowl, and repurpose the "soul collection" mechanic to generate additional razorflies.

Razorwing could also stand to have a lower energy drain.

 

Razorwing being considered airbone for Aviator would also be very helpful. It would help with the literally random one shots she suffers, as her current defenses are entirely RNG. And would be something against the Vruush turrets that really have no business targeting her. 

- the idea of casting abilities in razorwing to make more razorflies sounds like it'd so dope, even if it were limited to collecting souls from tribute

- i think she's just in need of a higher energy cap, maybe not too high if the vacuum effect goes live, because not having to fly directly into energy orbs will definitely save time on the drain. or cut ability costs while in razorwing(by a 1/4 or 1/2)

- i agree with this completely

[Potatrobot]

These changes sound really good. They're not complete reworks so it's still the same old frames, but the abilities just get a bit joojed up.

Absorb's dynamic damage does worry my, since Grineer mostly shoot Impact based guns, and this damage will be heavily reduced against their armour. The same goes for the Corpus and their puncture weapons, but there is a lot of damage variety in that faction. Still, soaking up a minute of Supra fire won't be as effective against the techie's shields as one would like.

Also, damage reflection in this game doesn't offer any real benefits. I say this as someone who stuck it out with Unairu. Any damage that doesn't kill a Warframe is peanuts compared to the monstrous health pools of the enemies at high levels. If I were to tweak this, I'd have this feature deal damage based on what % of your combined health & shields was chipped off. So if a Grineer peppers me with 5 shots from the Hind and takes away 10% of my total health & shields (speaking charitably), the damage reflected would be 10% of his HP, or a value derived from that percentage, like a tenth of it. Obviously we don't want players sacrificing their HP to take down a boss or high level Corpus tech.

[Squalobo]

Nyx sounds like she's going to be a lot of fun. She was always one of my favorites. Can't wait to hear her new ability sounds.

Titania also sounds a little better. Since she's a caster frame, it would be a lot better if she had faster casting times and a higher energy pool.

[Learicorn]

Thank you for not changing my queen ❤️ She's gonna be better but not entirely different which is amazing, i was legit terrified that u guys would ruin the character to make her more meta but you didnt. She's perfect the way she is now, haters gonna hate, fun is subjective, i love Nyx!

Btw can you bring back her ability to dance with Assimilate target idk why u guys removed it in the first place tbh

[GreyEnneract]

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Hi, All!

Going to offer some thoughts for this from a veteran perspective.

Nyx:
New passive is interesting, always wished Banshee's Silence had a secondary effect like this. Wonder if they'll be able to hit the Absorb bubble though.

Mind Control:
The damage amplification will have to be extremely high for this to pay off. This one relies entirely on the numbers.

Psychic Bolts:
Great idea. Especially when it comes to turning off Ancient Auras. It would be even better if this ability could turn off Eximus auras as well.

Absorb:
This could be interesting if it would proc the status effects of all the damage types fed in at once when it "feeds out".
Since usually, reflecting enemy damage is almost never good. Only Octavia really does it well, and that's because it combines, amplifies, and ticks out the built up damage.
The "aggro" pulling while using Absorb needs to be much more aggressive if you will, regardless of the other changes.

--

Tit:
Not changing her passive just comes across as very strange.
She's constantly, at all times, in Razorwing. It's her thing.
Can't exactly utilize her passive while in Razorwing.

Spellbind:
The targeting on this is still wonky, overall a decent 1st ability.

Tribute:
Good step forward, but the buffs are still the weakness.
For Dust, it would be better to "dodge" an instance of damage at 50%. Dodge as in basically ignoring the damage completely.
This would help against AoE's greatly, whereas just being less likely to be hit still has the chance of a Bombard one shotting you.

Thorns is probably the worst buff in the ability. As I stated earlier, reflecting enemy damage does not matter at all unless it's in an enormous amount.
Tit herself doesn't benefit from this either, she's not a tank after all. It also clashes with the point of the Dust buff.
Since this ability's buffs can be almost anything, replacing Thorns with anything else would be a net positive. 

Entangle being able to also root enemies would be nice as well.

Fullmoon is in a good enough state.

Lantern:
Great changes. Razorwing being able to replenish its Razorflies from the Lanterns would offer some great synergy.

Razorwing:
Since you're giving her innate vacuum while in Razorwing like how Archwings have it, how about giving her innate energy regen as well?
You know, since Archwings also have that. They also have the ability to boost with Shift. Would be greatly appreciated to have that, especially since we now have two open worlds.

Razorflies are a bit underwhelming. Having them proc slash at 100% would help them out a bit.
Or buffing them in some way based on how many Tribute buffs you have active.
Having more than six active at a time would also be a nice change.

Her Diwata being weak is more the fault of it not having combos/multipliers, and puncture itself being weak proc wise. Slash is still king and all that.
Even if the base %s were increased, it would just end up being only usable.

Thanks for reading, if you took the time.
Ended up being a bit long due to Tribute.

 

[Neightrix]

I don't think Nyx necessarily needs Psychic Bolts damage taken away. It's nice being able to play her at low level and knock off weaker enemies.

This is my only criticism, everything else looks great and is appreciated!

EDIT: I do see what others are saying about evasion being too uncertain for Titania. I personally find the Razorflies to be pretty good at drawing aggro already, so it might be nice to at least allow players to refresh them with <hold> or have the initial amount scale with power strength. You could also change their AI to have some stay with Titania to draw fire rather than having them all commit to attacking enemies in range. The accuracy debuff on enemies would theoretically improve the survivability of the Razorflies, and in turn make Titania that much harder to hit in the same way Mirage's clones work for her. Just some thoughts.

And I could see giving Titania a bit more energy as well, as she appears geared to be a caster.

[m3stuart]

Things worth mentioning about Titania.

Increase her base energy from 150 to 175

Make the casting speed for her Lantern faster.

Let the buffs from her Tribute ability to be affected by duration mods.

And i'm looking forward to Nyx

[XenMaster]

Wait wait wait, if Nyx absorb any type of damage, which meand it can accumulate physical damage too? That would be strong considering most of the enemy factions have varied weapons.

[EX-Sayita]

I am really curious about Nyx rework, it looks fine to me. But Titania is not really that good.

- Thorns 5 meter radius is pointless since you are a Squishy Warframe and this buff is based on Melee attacks 

- Dust is quite good, sadly, You are a squishy Warframe and late game enemies can kill u instantly. 

- Fullmoon buff is underwhelming, I really like the Pet damage buff, but the main damage output comes from our Warframes obviously and Companions don't last that long on late game runs and their AI is not that good as well. It would be really nice if this buff gives instead some survival capabilities to Warframes and companions as well as increase damage output.

- Reflecting damage is pretty pointless if the reflected damage does not scale. (multiply) 

- You can die easily by running straight forward to the enemies just to pick up the souls to obtain all these lackluster buffs. 

Spellbind is a good ability. It is not special and I don't use it that often do it would be nice to see if you can do something special to this ability as well as Lantern. I really like Razowing and the buff is really useful. 

 

[junjijuko]

What about Titania's passive? Does that see a change?

[TheBlackAce21]

I don't care about Nyx because she isn't my style of warframe but the changes for her look ok to me.

Titania is a different story. I love Titania in her current form, I enjoy razorwing and how it functions and I adore the buff to lantern and the vacuum addition to razerwing is going to make her feel SO much more comfortable to play I think. Having said that I don't think you are doing enough with the aura's. Yes the ability to stack them up to max with one cast is a welcome change but as so many others have stated before me, the buffs are very underwhelming and could be better.

Thorns is gained from melee enemies and is useless for obvious reasons, damage reflect in this game is pointless with armor reduction and others have run the numbers in this thread to prove it so I don't need to say more I think. I would like to see it become a small buff effect similar to how octavia gets small buffs for doing specific actions in time to music. Tribute a melee enemy, get a small buff to melee damage or attack speed. It doesn't have to be large but it would be far more useful of an ability than damage reflection especially in aura form for the rest of the team.

Dust I think isn't "as" useless especially when you consider the accuracy debuff aura mod for corpus. I come from World of Warcraft where tanking meant damage mitigation and I think people underestimate the use of straight damage mitigation. Having said that it is still underwhelming for one reason and one reason only. Damage mitigation doesn't mean anything if the enemy is dealing enough damage to one shot you with that one bullet in 10 that actually lands. Damage reduction is a far more effective stat in the current state of the game for defensive purposes which places armor and damage reduction abilities head and shoulders above accuracy debuff. If enemies couldn't simply one shot you at high levels this aura might be more useful but that isn't the case. I would even be ok with this getting flipped into "allies get more accuracy" which some might argue with me is still not as useful but I would counter with "take any full auto weapon into the sim at a range of 40m and tell me how useful accuracy can be afterwards. Course we could just slap multishot to primary or something on it and call it a day.

Entangle is the only one I see as being somewhat ok in its current form albeit only somewhat. The range at which the slow is applied is pitifully small to any but melee attack range and isn't effected by mods so that kinda sucks but its still useful. So I'll leave it there.

Full Moon....ugh....companion damage. I am never a fan of any mechanic that places damage and its application outside of my control. In WoW and similar games where you have AI controlled allies there is usually always a way to tell your companion "kill this thing" and if I had that ability I would be 100% ok with this aura because I would combine it with a team of Khora's and wreck high value targets with insane companion damage probably using kavaats. But thats not how this game works and because I can't give my pet orders yet (DE PLEASE ADD THIS) this feels super underwhelming. Bottom lining it though, I would rather have the ability to tell my pet what to do than have this particular aura reworked and the addition of it adding damage to the butterflies as well I think increases the use a fair amount because those things can be rather vicious anyway.

 

I would like to close this rant/suggestion box with a note. I view Titania's role in the team like a fighter jet in the air force providing support for ground troops, I would like to see more creative buffs than just flat damage in these auras (enemy highlighting behind walls would be a freaking awesome aura ability that I just thought of) and I would love to see these auras reflect that role a bit better, providing some sort of buff to the team that feels more significant and worth taking the time to cast the ability for. I thank you for your time and consideration in reading this :) and thank you to the development team for the work that you do.

 

[DuskAltimira]

Since you are taking a little time to rework Nyx sounds are you reworking visuals as well?

There is a mild issue with the fact that you currently need a dark energy color to be able to see anything while you are using Absorb (especially when utilizing the augment). However, if you are using a dark energy color you and your allies have trouble seeing what target you currently have Mind Controlled, or what Chaos is currently effecting. It would be a great quality of life improvement if the particles and effects could be reworked so we wouldn't have such limited options in our energy color choice.

Other than that, she's sounding pretty good to me!