Nidus Prime makes no sense

[-Krism-]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

See Tengus.

I don't remember, is this guy dead? Or is he just waiting somewhere in the galaxy?

[peterc3]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Look man, Valkyr Prime proved that DE isn’t 100% following the lore of primes.

Valkyr Prime does not violate the lore in any way. Even if that were true, DE is the be all, end all, of lore and whatever they do is automatically canon.

Nova is designed with the aid of the Design Council, given in-game lore as the Tenno Council.

Every frame can and will be Prime. End of story. The only way people don't get Valkyr P. is if they take words like "forged" literally and take what is written at only face value and don't actually read and understand the lore that DE is supposedly breaking.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

3 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Think of it this way. You make an absolute apex form of controlled infestation in the form of the original Nidus, now Nidus Prime. But it's not something you can do on a mass scale at that level of power, right? So you have a slightly weaker, degraded version for the mass produced Nidus. This would work exactly the same way as every other prime frame. The prime is the original; the peak of the type.

Didn't prove anything of the sort, except that she looked a lot different than her basic model, which is nothing new for Warframes. Valkyr was never created by the Corpus; that's just a community misunderstanding of her codex entry.

Still proves that DE doesn’t follow their own lore 100%

[--F--NerevarCM]

1 minute ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

I don't remember, is this guy dead? Or is he just waiting somewhere in the galaxy?

Alive

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Just now, peterc3 said:

Valkyr Prime does not violate the lore in any way. Even if that were true, DE is the be all, end all, of lore and whatever they do is automatically canon.

 

Lore friend Valkyr Prime would be based off Gersemi and have a different move set 

[TroubleCraft]

4 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Think of it this way. You make an absolute apex form of controlled infestation in the form of the original Nidus, now Nidus Prime. But it's not something you can do on a mass scale at that level of power, right? So you have a slightly weaker, degraded version for the mass produced Nidus. This would work exactly the same way as every other prime frame. The prime is the original; the peak of the type.

Didn't prove anything of the sort, except that she looked a lot different than her basic model, which is nothing new for Warframes. Valkyr was never created by the Corpus; that's just a community misunderstanding of her codex entry. So she was originally Orokin, like every other frame.

Interesting points you make

and yes, makes sense for watered-down versions of every frame for mass production to exist

but that doesn’t really help me explain why wouldn’t the Orokin discard the prototype first frame to be controlled once they found the right strain and created eveyr other frame based on it

[AdunSaveMe]

Just now, TroubleCraft said:

why wouldn’t the Orokin discard the prototype first frame to be controlled once they found the right strain and created eveyr other frame based on it

Would you get rid of an original work of art just because you can print it en masse?

[TroubleCraft]

8 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Think of it this way. You make an absolute apex form of controlled infestation in the form of the original Nidus, now Nidus Prime. But it's not something you can do on a mass scale at that level of power, right? So you have a slightly weaker, degraded version for the mass produced Nidus. This would work exactly the same way as every other prime frame. The prime is the original; the peak of the type.

Didn't prove anything of the sort, except that she looked a lot different than her basic model, which is nothing new for Warframes. Valkyr was never created by the Corpus; that's just a community misunderstanding of her codex entry. So she was originally Orokin, like every other frame.

Interesting points you make

and yes, makes sense for watered-down versions of every frame for mass production to exist

but that doesn’t really help me explain why wouldn’t the Orokin discard the prototype first frame to be controlled once they found the right strain and created eveyr other frame based on it

[AdunSaveMe]

7 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Nova is designed with the aid of the Design Council, given in-game lore as the Tenno Council.

As you say, I believe that's the case. And even then, if there is a Tenno Council in the current lore, that doesn't imply it's post-Orokin. That assumption always annoys me. In fact, the existence of the Prime implies the Council would have been a thing during the Orokin era. The mere existence of a Tenno Council does not preclude its existence during the Empire's time.

Edited November 28, 2018 by AdunSaveMe

[TroubleCraft]

1 minute ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Would you get rid of an original work of art just because you can print it en masse?

No, logically

but these were Orokin just looking for a strain of infestation to manipulate into growing frames

reason the mass production Nidus would look so overgrown

it’d basically be a human sized petri dish

wouldn’t you wash it after experimentation?

 

[peterc3]

1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Lore friend Valkyr Prime would be based off Gersemi and have a different move set 

Lore friendly Valkyr P. would be the only frame with a different move set. How is that lore friendly?

We know Alad V spent a time studying Valkyr. We know he didn't find much of anything, especially towards what makes frames tick. We know he and the Corpus have lots of Orokin relics and artifacts.

Easy assumption: Alad V tries to "make" a Valkyr P. by taking Gersemi and bolting on stuff and gets nowhere. Alad V cannot make frames. The best he's done is the Zanuka Project, things that fall under the name "proxy" due to probably having someone, somewhere driving them. He can't alter frame abilities. There is no way for Valkyr P. and Valkyr to have different abilities.

[Pizzarugi]

Seeing as his body changes as he builds mutations, you could easily make a prime where he looks completely clean and sleek, but cracks form and chunks of his shell are ripped off as the mutation evolves.

[Kyoresh]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Yes...and ???

Original—>modified Helminth—>Helminth Prime.

It’s not hard.

I know...that was what I implied with that lol

[Cradicias]

28 minutes ago, ShadowExodus said:

 

 

  Hide contents

Warframes aren't infected Dax Soldiers, that's only Umbra because Ballas reasons. All other warframes were created from participants willing or unwilling. And Helminth isn't an original strain of the infested. It's a cultured strain of infested

1

 

Spoiler

Thus the "or other infested flesh of some sort" part XD

 

[Atsia]

15 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Lore friend Valkyr Prime would be based off Gersemi and have a different move set 

The body of Valk P IS the same as the Gersemi model. And there's no explicit reason she would have a different kit. That'd honestly be debatingly more lore unfriendly than what we have

[mikakor]

even with all the LORE that would say that it have no sense, every Warframe is getting a Prime version. and i can't wait to see pimped space AIDS the second being pimped, like Saryn was.

[-Krism-]

43 minutes ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

Alive

oh sh*t, wonder if we'll ever see him ingame

Edited November 28, 2018 by Xenox_Ilz-ot

[(PSN)Silverback73]

41 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

I don't remember, is this guy dead? Or is he just waiting somewhere in the galaxy?

He’s not dead. In addition to fostering infestation...  He helped engineer the G3.  He created the Ghouls.

You have the Mutalist Alad V strain.

The Juggernaught strain that escaped.

It’s just support for how easily a specialized, mutated “Helminth Prime” strain could be introduced to explain Nidus Prime.

[StinkyPygmy]

1 hour ago, Kyoresh said:

except that Helminth is a modified strain and not the original

Exactly, the strain that creates the infested body of the warframes

1 hour ago, Kerberos-3 said:

There are a lot of primes that make zero sense at all lore-wise without Olympic-grade mental gymnastics. Why does Valkyr Prime exist as she is, when most of the available lore heavily indicates that Gersemi was a completely different frame? Why does Nova Prime exist at all when her origins clearly place her creation after the fall of the Orokin? Why does Helios Prime exist, when Helios is a Corpus-made Sentinel? None of these should exist, going by the current definition of what a Prime is, but they do, because reasons.

All of them make sense. 

Val lore is pretty straight forward. Alad tortured a vanilla version of the frame and a torn up version was what we discovered. Nova being "designed" by the tenno council is a minor nod to founders. If we gotta put lore behind her, there is absolutely nothing stopping us from encountering her BP ands modifying them after the fall of the Orokin. Hek, nothing says the Tenno Council did not exist Prior to the fall. Helios Prime? Sentinels are living creatures modified to perform their role. A lot of what the Corpus do is reverse engineer Orokin tech, so Helios prime is simply the Original Orokin version.

Not a huge l amount of lore breaking here. 

Edited November 29, 2018 by StinkyPygmy

[-Krism-]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

He’s not dead. In addition to fostering infestation...  He helped engineer the G3.  He created the Ghouls.

You have the Mutalist Alad V strain.

The Juggernaught strain that escaped.

It’s just support for how easily a specialized, mutated “Helminth Prime” strain could be introduced to explain Nidus Prime.

Yeah, I want to kill him for what he did, but also want to see what he's capable of doing next :/

[Chaemyerelis]

We can all construe the story of primes all we want to fit them in the lore but OP is right. Its a stretch that requires assumptions.

[-Krism-]

3 minutes ago, Chaemyerelis said:

We can all construe the story of primes all we want to fit them in the lore but OP is right. Its a stretch that requires assumptions.

I don't get why people are so triggered about the Gersemi skin, why? Is it because they don't look like each other? Damn, you could say the same for HydroidP then

EDIT: & if it's about Alad V tempering with a Valkyr, it is stated nowhere that he tempered with her abilities, the only thing we know is that he gave her a corpus-like look, that's it

Edited November 29, 2018 by Xenox_Ilz-ot

[(PSN)Silverback73]

3 minutes ago, Chaemyerelis said:

We can all construe the story of primes all we want to fit them in the lore but OP is right. Its a stretch that requires assumptions.

Look...we all know the reality is that standard frames come first in Warframe’s game design.

Look at Valkyr:

Corpus Valkyr came first.  Then Zanuka. Then Gersemi (based on Zanuka).  Then Valkyr Prime (Primified Corpus Valkyr).

The art of Story in video games often involves reweaving the design process into a cohesive story. In Valkyr’s case it’s Chronological reversal.

Assumptions that make sense on the part of the player aren’t a stretch.  It can be fun if you don’t rules-monger the process with written “rules”.

 

[Ayures]

2 hours ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

I can see Nidus Prime being as beautiful as the Dijinn Gazal skin..like the infestation was cured...

That's what I'm hoping for, personally. Like if Nidus was an experiment in going heavier on the infested elements, but by the time we got the BP it was corrupted and overgrown. Djinn Gazal compared to regular Djinn is a perfect comparison (and it'd be great if they matched for flavorful fashion... and another helminth skin). 

[StinkyPygmy]

1 hour ago, Chaemyerelis said:

We can all construe the story of primes all we want to fit them in the lore but OP is right. Its a stretch that requires assumptions.

I'd argue that its the other way around. Where others see contradictions in lore I'd argue its down to a lack of reading comprehension and assumptions based of vague or misunderstood wording.