Vandals, Wraiths, Prisma, Primes

[Grimmstyler]

Oh what a bunch of confusing weapons.. Require so much space to keep them all too.

You got the Vanilla IPS Tenno, Grineer, Corpus and Infested.. Maybe Future Sentient..

Vandals should be the Elemental Variants of Corpus vanilla IPS weapons.

Wraiths should be the Elemental Variants of Grineer vanilla IPS weapons

Prisma? I dunno.. They're marketed as a wierd Orokin find from Baro Ki Teer.. Should have never been..

Tenno Elemental Variant of vanilla? Need a new line name..

Infested weapons are mostly Elemental.. Need to think that 1 thru more. Maybe Infested weapons should just have attributes like Acrid, Hystrix, Mutalist Cernos, etc..

Primes.. Oh Primes.. Once you have a Prime, what's the purpose of the Vanilla IPS? Why can't Primes be reworked similar to a Catalyst that enhances the weapons attributes? Install on a vanilla IPS, Vandal, Wraith, Prisma (Meh) to make Prime? Would save a lot of space other than a space for each weapon Vanilla, Vandal, Wrath, Prisma, Prime..

Edited November 30, 2018 by Grimmstyler

[(PSN)Kamranos]

Because warframe and weapon slots are cheap and Warframe is a free game that needs to give people the incentive to purchase plat beyond the fashionframe aspect.

While some Wraith/Vandal/Prisma variants are still not my thing, they do have their place and are fun to get and see how it is different than its normal counterpart.

Primes great, but they do not make the standard frame useless. I use mine for different builds beyond what my Prime might be polarized for. Plus, I keep mine around because I prefer their standard skin which can then be used on a Prime. Prime is not something to be created with a catalyst or Forma, but found from the Void (ounce in the form of void keys, now in void relics). What you are suggesting would attempt to change how Primes are (lore wise) throughout the entire game.

[Grimmstyler]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Kamranos said:

What you are suggesting would attempt to change how Primes are (lore wise) throughout the entire game.

Yea.. I don't think Warframe was thought it very well from it's whole design..

I still think it's a great game tho. Mostly it's mechanics.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Grimmstyler

[kgabor]

46 minutes ago, Grimmstyler said:

Vandals should be the Elemental Variants of Corpus vanilla IPS weapons.

This would make the Snipetron Vandal a Lanka, again.

[artemisfortune]

13 minutes ago, Grimmstyler said:

Yea.. I don't think Warframe was thought it very well from it's whole design..

I still think it's a great game tho. Mostly it's mechanics.

So, from what I gather, your stance here is "I'm confused about weapon naming schemes and don't like how I don't have enough slots for all these weapons so the game has bad design."

[Chewarette]

1 hour ago, Grimmstyler said:

Tenno Elemental Variant of vanilla? Need a new line name..

That's Dex, technically.

[GinKenshin]

Can you please stop coming up with faults with everything? There’s absolutely no reason any of this should be a thing. If you got an upgraded version, then just sell the old one...problem solved 

[Dhrekr]

5 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

Can you please stop coming up with faults with everything? There’s absolutely no reason any of this should be a thing. If you got an upgraded version, then just sell the old one...problem solved 

I must agree with this.

The system is fine.

Does it lead you to own a huge pile of weapons? Yes, and that's fine by me.

[Grimmstyler]

1 hour ago, kgabor said:

This would make the Snipetron Vandal a Lanka, again.

Yea.. So many variety of weapons.. To own them all and scroll thru a thousand weapons when they could just be more simple.

Weapon mechanics are not all the same.. But they do the same thing.

Warframe powers are more reliable for damage than weapons

Edited November 30, 2018 by Grimmstyler

[GinKenshin]

2 hours ago, Grimmstyler said:

Yea.. So many variety of weapons.. To own them all and scroll thru a thousand weapons when they could just be more simple.

Weapon mechanics are not all the same.. But they do the same thing.

Warframe powers are more reliable for damage than weapons

“A thousand weapons” 

 

   They’re not even close to that, they’re spread over 3-4 categories, the search bar is a thing, you don’t have to collect them all. This is a game about collecting a lotta stuff, why would people want to reduce that? Plus, farming another version is usually pretty profitable especially when it’s hard to get, so why would DE remove that? Even if there’s an upgrade item or some dumb thing like that that you have to farm for, why would DE change the entire system?....and all of that for the sake of reducing the scrolling time and changing how a weapon works

 

   On top of that, frames do more dmg than weapons....More effective? Sure, for 1-3 frames that is. If that’s another supporting ‘evidence’ for you suggestion then it’s pretty redundant and false too, and shouldn’t be considered for any change 

[Grimmstyler]

32 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

“A thousand weapons” 

 

   They’re not even close to that, they’re spread over 3-4 categories, the search bar is a thing, you don’t have to collect them all. This is a game about collecting a lotta stuff, why would people want to reduce that? Plus, farming another version is usually pretty profitable especially when it’s hard to get, so why would DE remove that? Even if there’s an upgrade item or some dumb thing like that that you have to farm for, why would DE change the entire system?....and all of that for the sake of reducing the scrolling time and changing how a weapon works

 

   On top of that, frames do more dmg than weapons....More effective? Sure, for 1-3 frames that is. If that’s another supporting ‘evidence’ for you suggestion then it’s pretty redundant and false too, and shouldn’t be considered for any change 

 I believe if you have Vanilla IPS weapons. Then Vandals and Wraiths were the Elemental Variants.. Then you could just Prime any "Vanilla" IPS, Vandal or Wraith, it would make categorizing weapons and slot usage much easier than having a slot for a Vanilla, Vandal, Wraith, Prime. 

Then even when you Prime a weapon with my suggestion, you don't have to Forma it like you would if a new Prime weapon was released. 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Grimmstyler

[Blade_Wolf_16]

So first, Vandal/Wraith versions are not Elemental and shouldn't be. A Karak won't shoot fire balls just because it's a Wraith version. It's a gun that shoots bullets. Alt versions have upgraded stats; they're not completely different weapons. And just why should those be elemental weapons? There's little to no advantage (No Slash, less usefull for Condition Overload) anyway.

And for the Prisma, no, they're not Orokin. I highly doubt the Orokins would have made a Prisma Grakata, Gorgon, Tetra, Twin Gremlins, Obex, etc. since those are clearly Corpus/Grineer weaponry, which they didn't have during the Orokin era (the Mara Detron being the one mistake incoherence in the weapon lore). Baro sells "wears from the Void", true, but lore wise there is no way he would find Grustrag/Zanuka/Stalker Beacons (and his own merch) in the Void, so this "All my wears come from the Void" is total crap in the first place. There is no proof that he found those weapons in the Void itself. Maybe he (or somebody else) simply took some weapons of the Origin system and brought them to a Prisma crystal storage of some sort in the Void to upgrade them or something. It's just speculations, but still, I think it makes more sense then saying that the Grakata was an Orokin weapon of some sort.

 

As for the Prime version, people have been requesting many time in the past that DE removes the option of using Variants as crafting components (I recall the Latron serie being one of those cases, since the Latron is used to craft the Tiberon), which they did since variants are hard to find/drop and didn't affect the stats whatsoever. The only thing that would, imho, makes sense is if the regular version (no variant) was a component of the Prime version. The rest isn't needed. 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Blade_Wolf_16

[GinKenshin]

15 minutes ago, Grimmstyler said:

 I believe if you have Vanilla IPS weapons. Then Vandals and Wraiths were the Elemental Variants.. Then you could just Prime any "Vanilla" IPS, Vandal or Wraith, it would make categorizing weapons and slot usage much easier than having a slot for a Vanilla, Vandal, Wraith, Prime. 

Then even when you Prime a weapon with my suggestion, you don't have to Forma it like you would if a new Prime weapon was released. 

 

 

1- some people want the IPS, IPS is useful in some cases, totally removing it shouldn’t be an option 

 

2- a weapon doesn’t have a bazillion variants, it’s 2 at most. Stop exaggerating to try and make a case 

 

3- do you actually think DE wants us to use less Forma? 

 

4- again, ‘ease of categorizing’ is not a good excuse for this change

 

[Grimmstyler]

5 minutes ago, Blade_Wolf_16 said:

So first, Vandal/Wraith versions are not Elemental and shouldn't be. A Karak won't shoot fire balls just because it's a Wraith version. It's a gun that shoots bullets. Alt versions have upgraded stats; they're not completely different weapons. And just why should those be elemental weapons? There's little to no advantage (No Slash, less usefull for Condition Overload) anyway.

I can argue with you on this 1.. What if you really like the Karak.. i mean you like the look, the for rate, the sound. But it's not doing the damage you want because it's procing that Impact all the time?

Your best option is to find a Riven (which Riven Space we are limited to) get negative Impact on the Riven, then even  after 1000 rolls it takes you to get them specific stats you want.. 

Why not just have Wraith Version be Elemental which a  negative Impact Riven is going to do anyway?

 

15 minutes ago, Blade_Wolf_16 said:

And for the Prisma, no, they're not Orokin.

Well they might be Corrupted, only thing I know that is associated with the Void is Orokin, but Orokin is expanded to Lua, fissures, Derelict, Vallis.

[Grimmstyler]

20 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

1- some people want the IPS, IPS is useful in some cases, totally removing it shouldn’t be an option 

 

2- a weapon doesn’t have a bazillion variants, it’s 2 at most. Stop exaggerating to try and make a case 

 

3- do you actually think DE wants us to use less Forma? 

 

4- again, ‘ease of categorizing’ is not a good excuse for this change

 

Ok.. Say it's because you really like a weapon. Its look, it's sound, it's recoil, it's fire rate. but it's stats IPS aren't exactly what you like.. like it's Impact dominant and procs Impact 80% of the time..Or the effectiveness it has against Elemental Resistant Enemies..Or Physical Resistant Enemies.. Or even faction.. Impact against Grineer?

If weapons also had a base damage, then you just add  mods like IPS or Elemental, that would make weapons more versatile too. But that would be a whole revamp of mod slots lol

Edited November 30, 2018 by Grimmstyler

[GinKenshin]

10 minutes ago, Grimmstyler said:

Ok.. Say it's because you really like a weapon. Its look, it's sound, it's recoil, it's fire rate. but it's stats IPS aren't exactly what you like.. like it's Impact dominant and procs Impact 80% of the time..Or the effectiveness it has against Elemental Resistant Enemies..Or Physical Resistant Enemies..

Usually that's balanced out by the other stats being objectively good, if it procs impact 80% of the time then your build is bad, since even the highest dmg weapon which is an impact based (I can't remember any weapon like this) can have even more elemental dmg if you use 2 dual stat elements. furthermore, if you really like a weapon, then you don't need a change of stats, you'll use it because you like using it, not because it's the best weapon ever made....and there's always rivens which are made for that exact purpose of buffing weapons you like 

if you're fighting resistance enemies, like in sorties for example, then use another weapon capable of dealing with them. you can't complaining about your plasmor doing crap for dmg in an elemental resistance sortie, that's on you 

you changing the reason for this is also a tell of how redundant this is. also, an example of such a weapon would go a long way...

even if that is the case, changing the stats of a weapon completely for just a few missions is not a solution 

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by GinKenshin

[Grimmstyler]

3 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

Usually that's balanced out by the other stats being objectively good, if it procs impact 80% of the time then your build is bad, since even the highest dmg weapon which is an impact based (I can't remember any weapon like this) can have even more elemental dmg if you use 2 dual stat elements. furthermore, if you really like a weapon, then you don't need a change of stats, you'll use it because you like using it, not because it's the best weapon ever made....and there's always rivens which are made for that exact purpose of buffing weapons you like 

if you're fighting resistance enemies, like in sorties for example, then use another weapon capable of dealing with them. you can't complaining about your plasmor doing crap for dmg in an elemental resistance sortie, that's on you 

you changing the reason for this is also a tell of how redundant this is. also, an example of such a weapon would go a long way...

 

Well i usually use weapons based on effectiveness of what it is I'm fighting.. So i don't have any specific Weapon, I'm just saying it gives more versatility of a weapon..

And no.. Not all weapons are balanced out..Mmmmm let's say Vulkar Wraith against Grineer for example.. Yes there's Puncture Damage, but it's not as effective as a Snipetron Vandal against Grineer.. 

Then you got Physical Resistant Grineer which Vulkar Wraith would be much worse.

Then when it comes to Rivens.. Pfff.. You better just use a different weapon than rolling the stats you want on a Riven.. Having the Riven Capacity to use a weapon.. Spend a lot of Plat on a specific roll.. Or spend countless hours Kuva farming getting the stats you want, then a better gun comes out lol

[Grimmstyler]

@GinKenshin

I did edit my last post for the sake of Forums and not skew my topic to the top of the list.

This is what you missed

36 minutes ago, Grimmstyler said:

If weapons also had a base damage, then you just add  mods like IPS or Elemental, that would make weapons more versatile too. But that would be a whole revamp of mod slots lol

 

[Blade_Wolf_16]

il y a 47 minutes, Grimmstyler a dit :

I can argue with you on this 1.. What if you really like the Karak.. i mean you like the look, the for rate, the sound. But it's not doing the damage you want because it's procing that Impact all the time?

Your best option is to find a Riven (which Riven Space we are limited to) get negative Impact on the Riven, then even  after 1000 rolls it takes you to get them specific stats you want.. 

Why not just have Wraith Version be Elemental which a  negative Impact Riven is going to do anyway?

 

Well they might be Corrupted, only thing I know that is associated with the Void is Orokin, but Orokin is expanded to Lua, fissures, Derelict, Vallis.

Just because you personnaly want that doesn't mean it make sense to turn physical weapons into elemental ones. It's just like turning the Ignis into an IPS weapon. Doesn't make sense. 

Oh, and I personnaly like Impact procs, as it pushes enemies away (usefull against fast melee and Eximus units) as well as CC them quite effectively, giving me enough time to avoid attacks or get in melee range. It's even better with Cold procs, which I use a lot with my Cold+Rad/Corro Karak Wraith build (With a + Impact, + Cold and + dmg Riven). DPS isn't the only way to be effective. 

 

Last thing, the Void is not Orokin. The Towers are. Orokins never understood the Void, it was and still is a mystery. The reason why there are Towers there is probably to hide from the Sentients, either as shelters or tactical position for their army. 

[Chaemyerelis]

He has a point. There's a lot of weapons and weapon variants that really don't add anything to the game besides MR fodder.

[Grimmstyler]

3 minutes ago, Blade_Wolf_16 said:

Just because you personnaly want that doesn't mean it make sense to turn physical weapons into elemental ones. It's just like turning the Ignis into an IPS weapon. Doesn't make sense. 

Oh, and I personnaly like Impact procs, as it pushes enemies away (usefull against fast melee and Eximus units) as well as CC them quite effectively, giving me enough time to avoid attacks or get in melee range. It's even better with Cold procs, which I use a lot with my Cold+Rad/Corro Karak Wraith build (With a + Impact, + Cold and + dmg Riven). DPS isn't the only way to be effective. 

 

Last thing, the Void is not Orokin. The Towers are. Orokins never understood the Void, it was and still is a mystery. The reason why there are Towers there is probably to hide from the Sentients, either as shelters or tactical position for their army. 

No.. a Ignis wouldn't make sense as a IPS weapon.. It's a Flamethrower.. That's not much of a argument against a Assualt Rifle or Sniper Rifle being a Elemental Variant, because you could have a full clip of Elemental Rounds in a Sniper or Assualt Rifle as oppose to vanilla..

 

Like i said, only thing i know associated with the Void is Orokin.

[Grimmstyler]

6 minutes ago, Chaemyerelis said:

He has a point. There's a lot of weapons and weapon variants that really don't add anything to the game besides MR fodder.

Yes Man.. Some weapons have good mechanics, looks, sounds.. And could even use secondary fire like Tiberon Prime. But DE just brings out new weapons making the scroll thru more confusing if you own all the Weapons. Also increases the Randomized Riven from unveiling a Riven.

Like i got a Heat Sword MR15 Riven i unvieled the other day.. WTF would i use a Heat Sword at MR15?

[GrayArchon]

7 hours ago, Grimmstyler said:

Vandals should be the Elemental Variants of Corpus vanilla IPS weapons.

Wraiths should be the Elemental Variants of Grineer vanilla IPS weapons

Some Grineer/Corpus weapons are IPS. Some aren't. Has nothing to do with whether they're Wraith or Vandal.

7 hours ago, Grimmstyler said:

Prisma? I dunno.. They're marketed as a wierd Orokin find from Baro Ki Teer.. Should have never been..

Prisma weapons serve an important purpose: they provide more regular upgrades to Corpus and Grineer weapons. Tenno weapons get Primed all the time, but Wraith/Vandal weapons only get released with new events (and not even every event). Prisma weapons allow for more upgraded Corpus and Grineer weapons, and even provides a possibility for upgraded Infested weapons (which we haven't really seen yet).

7 hours ago, Grimmstyler said:

Tenno Elemental Variant of vanilla? Need a new line name..

The upgraded versions of Tenno weapons are Prime weapons. Tenno use the same weapons as the Orokin, but reproduce them with substandard materials and technology, thus the difference between Tenno and Orokin weaponry. But in reality they're different versions of the same thing, with the Orokin versions being better, as they are the originals.

7 hours ago, Grimmstyler said:

Primes.. Oh Primes.. Once you have a Prime, what's the purpose of the Vanilla IPS?

There really isn't one. Once you get the Prime, or Wraith, or Vandal, or Prisma, you ditch the vanilla version (or just keep it in your inventory, burning a weapon slot). It's a straight upgrade, almost always. It's a common model of player progression in video games: getting new weapons and ditching the old ones. Diablo, Borderlands, Fallout… most games with any kind of player progression have a form of this (in my experience).

[Blade_Wolf_16]

il y a 1 minute, Grimmstyler a dit :

No.. a Ignis wouldn't make sense as a IPS weapon.. It's a Flamethrower.. That's not much of a argument against a Assualt Rifle or Sniper Rifle being a Elemental Variant, because you could have a full clip of Elemental Rounds in a Sniper or Assualt Rifle as oppose to vanilla..

Want elemental damage? Use elemental mods. Your "solution" is in the game since... idk, the begining? Something around that.

An Ignis being IPS based makes just as much sense as a Karak shooting ice picks instead of bullets. You can't say you support one side of the coin and pretend the other side doesn't exist. 

[Blade_Wolf_16]

il y a 2 minutes, Grimmstyler a dit :

Like i got a Heat Sword MR15 Riven i unvieled the other day.. WTF would i use a Heat Sword at MR15?

From what I've heard, the Heat Sword is actualy a good choice for a Condition Overload build, since it has an extremely high disposition and the highest Status Chance of all Longswords. It could even beat a Mewan Longsword, since the Riven disposition and Slash % are quite different.