What if Arbitrations were Competitive?

[(PSN)LeonidasxGGG]

Calm down everyone, please read before commenting... THIS IS NOT CONCLAVE.

I started a post about why I (and other players) feel like Arbitrations don't work and how DE has failed to deliver in the promise that "this" could/would be Endgame content. If you want, please read and comment here:

On that thread someone suggested Bosses should happear, and someone else suggested PvP for Endgame. So, nothing really new here, and I know most of us play for that overwhelming sense of power we have in destroying enemies, not by facing other players... BUT then I wondered: could this actually BE Arbitrations?

I mean, first of all, the name itself comes from "Arbitage"? That's like "referee" or "balance" something. Second, the mode itself could be Competitive instead of Confrontational (just like Destiny 2's "Gambit")... Imagine:

At it's core it would be just like in regular Arbitrations. You go into a high level Endless mission with one life, but you have a progress bar on top and you have a limited time to get thru it before the other team. You do NOT face other players, you just make their mission more difficult by releasing bosses in they tile (Gugstag Three, Vorg, Jackal, Hyenas, The Sargeant, etc...). If the mission was Defense or Interception it would win the faster to finish X number of waves or interceptions. If the mission was Survival or Excavation the score could be kills or criotic achieved). Also, because the game randomly selects a "buffed" frame and weapon for you, for your team to have that "extra" advangate you would have to be really good with all and bring your A game for this mode. 

Rewards, of course, is the wrench in the mix... [EDIT] I don't really know, but I'll give it a shot:
The Winning team would get the designated Arbi mod (same for everyone). But divided by the squad would also be 2 Orta sculptures, 1 Vaya and 1 Piv, and 2 Gold + 2 Silver Arcanes. The Loosing team would get: No mod. But divided among the players would be 2 Valana sculptures, 1 Sah, 1 Ayr, and 2 silver + 2 bronze arcanes. The MVP from the match OR the MVP from each team, would get 1 riven OR 1 platinum arcane... FYI: The sculptures would work like trophies really, and they would all be full. The Arcanes would be for those bored of the Eidolon.

And BTW, even if this wasn't "Arbitrations", I still think it would be fun to have this mode in Warframe.

Edited December 5, 2018 by (PS4)leonidasx666
Rewards. Change of title so not to trigger some players.

[Gabbynaru]

They'd be deader than they currently are. PvP are not endgame for PvE players, they are content they don't want or enjoy. So let PvP die.

[Loza03]

*insert rage comment about how PvP sucks and how it doesn't belong in Warframe because I said so and also I find it hard without actually reading the post*

Yeah, this sounds pretty neat. Disrupting your enemies with boss fights and general mania seems like it'd make for an interesting shake-up.

[Eisdschungel]

boss fights would be nice, im actually sad they dropped the planned higher g3 / zanuka spawnrates (getting brakk and detron parts would add more incentive to Play arbitrations)

vor 16 Minuten schrieb (PS4)leonidasx666:

Rewards, of course, is the wrench in the mix... Winners get (just) the same mods we get so far? Loosers get Endo? Best 2/3 or 3/5? Idk... This is just an idea after all.

this would really have to be debated. mods are useless once you have one each, making the looser actually get the better reward. if anything, looser should Keep the rewards we have atm, while the winner gets more better stuff. you really dont want to be the guy that had an idea on how to make things tougher for less rewards

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

Well, I will say this.

Arbitrations are really just tougher Alerts with their own specific faction drops. That's it really. Trying to complicate the system will just make it conflict with other modes or ideas they have in the works, which from the ideas you're suggesting, is the plans they have for Dark Sectors.

PvP in any form for a specifically PvE mode is a no-go, even if it isn't direct PvP. Making it so you can summon Lephantis in an Infested Survival is not only impossible due to the many different maps and pathing, but also hurts the fun and little diversity the mode can offer. Assasins, Minibosses and Syndicate Death Squads already show up and are already a random, but somewhat welcome, pain. Making it so they aren't random anymore, but can be forced to spawn, is not only going to be irritating and an easy way to farm their items, but is also just unnecessary when they really don't add too much difficulty. You're essentially incentivizing players to run meta playstyles even more to compete with others and cripple them by adding unnecessary difficulty at random for what sounds like nothing besides the regular rewards. That's just making it harder and less fun for no real reason, not adding anything constantly farmable that's difficult, but readily desired, by veteran players. Maybe that would work in its own mode, but not for Arbitration.

Also, please don't try adding something to PvE that gives players who actually try out the PvE section nothing in return for their efforts. That's a PvP thing that should stick to PvP and PvP alone, we don't need to kill the gamemode by making it so people without the highest score get nothing while the ones running the best setups murder those below them and actually get decent items.

Now, adding something like extra challenges to Arbitrations akin to other Endless modes in games, like "Miniboss Rush" or "Heavy Units Only" COULD work if implemented correctly, because that's just adding onto what's already in the gamemode (yet that might be stepping on the toes of Rathuum). The only issue would be figuring out how to add that in a fair way that rewards you for the (possibly) random increase in artificial difficulty while making it interesting and different enough from similar modes to actually be a worthwhile inclusion. Something like an Eximus only round could be fun if they fixed some Eximus effects, for example (firewall juggling, invisible energy sapping, etc.)

The only "endgame" we truly have is Rivens and Fashionframe. So, try to pick from one of the two. I'd recommend trying to go the second route, as it seems that is what Arbitration is currently trying to do. Endgame via difficulty is just not a practical thing when everything in this game scales forever and whenever we do hit some kind of wall, we just get the means to break it yet again. If we don't get that, we just get ways to break the game faster/easier.

Edited December 3, 2018 by (XB1)Graysmog

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

Conclave PVP is listing along while slowly bleeding out...De should really consider PVE type PVP game modes to experiment with...Bungie certainly found an interesting side by side game mode...Like I said before I would rather Arbitration be a fight between endless bosses/MIdTeirBosses/Assassins and the players, while just throwing out the lower end mobs..and instead have them comprised of "OP" NOX, Bursa, and Red Veils Charger hit teams with Juggernauts mixed in all running around...but, the rewards need to be... all the rewards from hard to get aura mods to arcanes..not this half effort of endless endo..vets could use other resources like kuva and natain...

Edited December 3, 2018 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

[taiiat]

hmm, maybe Arbitrations isn't the place for it since those are different as they are, but a casually competitive Gamemode about performing better than other Squads - sure, i'm always open for that.

and unlike almost everyone else it seems, i read more than the title >.>

[Erytroxylin]

If Arbitrations were PVP, 5 people in the entire world would play it just like the Conclave. 😛

Warframe simply was never designed for PVP. Without enormous investment, it never will be. I'd rather that investment be spent on more content and bug fixes.

[DerGreif2]

Warframe is a PvE game... no PvP please... if you want PvP play another game... I am so glad that PvP is almost not exciting here.

[Zeiss17]

^^^^^^^^^^^

What he said pretty much. PvP is dead boys, leave it in its grave.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

No

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

How about no.

[(PSN)supernova_girlie]

I don't see anything wrong with your idea as long as it doesn't replace PvE version. Your ideas are unique and interesting.

[DatDarkOne]

It seems that the forum has reached it's suggesting PvP in PvE environment stage again.  It might be about time someone added that to the Warframe Bingo card.  

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

22 hours ago, (PS4)leonidasx666 said:

Calm down everyone, please read before commenting... THIS IS NOT CONCLAVE.

I started a post about why I (and other players) feel like Arbitrations don't work and how DE has failed to deliver in the promise that "this" could/would be Endgame content. If you want, please read and comment here:

On that thread someone suggested Bosses should happear, and someone else suggested PvP for Endgame. So, nothing really new here, and I know most of us play for that overwhelming sense of power we have in destroying enemies, not by facing other players... BUT then I wondered: could this actually BE Arbitrations?

I mean, first of all, the name itself comes from "Arbitage"? That's like "referee" or "balance" something. Second, the mode itself could be Competitive instead of Confrontational (just like Destiny 2's "Gambit")... Imagine:

At it's core it would be just like in regular Arbitrations. You go into a high level Endless mission with one life, but you have a progress bar on top and you have a limited time to get thru it before the other team. You do NOT face other players, you just make their mission more difficult by releasing bosses in they tile (Gugstag Three, Vorg, Jackal, Hyenas, The Sargeant, etc...). If the mission was Defense or Interception it would win the faster to finish X number of waves or interceptions. If the mission was Survival or Excavation the score could be kills or criotic achieved). Also, because the game randomly selects a "buffed" frame and weapon for you, for your team to have that "extra" advangate you would have to be really good with all and bring your A game for this mode. 

Rewards, of course, is the wrench in the mix... [EDIT] I don't really know, but I'll give it a shot:
The Winning team would get the designated Arbi mod (same for everyone). But divided by the squad would also be 2 Orta sculptures, 1 Vaya and 1 Piv, and 2 Gold + 2 Silver Arcanes. The Loosing team would get: No mod. But divided among the players would be 2 Valana sculptures, 1 Sah, 1 Ayr, and 2 silver + 2 bronze arcanes. The MVP from the match OR the MVP from each team, would get 1 riven OR 1 platinum arcane... FYI: The sculptures would work like trophies really, and they would all be full. The Arcanes would be for those bored of the Eidolon.

And BTW, even if this wasn't "Arbitrations", I still think it would be fun to have this mode in Warframe.

the whole reason conclave failed, for the most part, is the vast majority of players here do not want pvp.  its only a very small minority that want pvp here.  it was even addressed in an interview  that they really were not going to even consider any more pvp content for the game becasue of the negative backlash they have gotten over it before.    For those that want pvp best they can hope for is that they finish out the stalker mode that was half done before they stoped it before, and may or maynot pick it up again.

[YukimaruLegends]

Invading other player missions as grineer, corpus or infested sounds pretty fun if they can actually implement it right.

[Moogleoftheages]

I really hope DE see's how much of its playerbase wants PvP content like this above. I really wish they'd have clan vs clan at killing certain enemy types and trying to kill more than the other clan, anything like that would be perf.

Fully behind this idea. 

[EmberStar]

3 hours ago, Moogleoftheages said:

I really hope DE see's how much of its playerbase wants PvP content like this above. I really wish they'd have clan vs clan at killing certain enemy types and trying to kill more than the other clan, anything like that would be perf.

Fully behind this idea. 

DE *has* metrics to show how much of the playerbase plays the PVP modes.  That's *why* they stopped wasting resources trying to add more PVP - almost no one uses it, and any time and effort they spend on PVP is flushing money down the toilet.  People don't come to Warframe to play PVP.  They come here to be a techno-organic space ninja wizard and shoot Grineer so hard their arms fall off.

[Moogleoftheages]

30 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

DE *has* metrics to show how much of the playerbase plays the PVP modes.  That's *why* they stopped wasting resources trying to add more PVP - almost no one uses it, and any time and effort they spend on PVP is flushing money down the toilet.  People don't come to Warframe to play PVP.  They come here to be a techno-organic space ninja wizard and shoot Grineer so hard their arms fall off.

1

It isn't PvP though, its PvE content with light elements of competition 😞 Why're you grouping it under all PvP in general. This is so sad.

[EmberStar]

1 minute ago, Moogleoftheages said:

It isn't PvP though, its PvE content with light elements of competition 😞 Why're you grouping it under all PvP in general. This is so sad.

Can a player-controlled avatar attack me?  If the answer is yes, then it's PVP.  If I wanted to be ganked and teabagged, I'd own Fortnite, or LoL, or any of about a hundred other games that are BUILT for PVP and balanced around it properly.  Trying to mix PVE and PVP elements in the same space DOES NOT WORK.  If everything is balanced around PVE, then the "monster play" characters get curbstomped just like every other NPC.  If it's balanced around PVP, then PVE most likely sucks.  (See:  Destiny 2, where everything is balanced around the PVP stats and nearly all weapons and powers are "bleh" or just flat out useless against NPCs.)

[Moogleoftheages]

Just now, EmberStar said:

Can a player-controlled avatar attack me?  If the answer is yes, then it's PVP.  If I wanted to be ganked and teabagged, I'd own Fortnite, or LoL, or any of about a hundred other games that are BUILT for PVP and balanced around it properly.  Trying to mix PVE and PVP elements in the same space DOES NOT WORK.  If everything is balanced around PVE, then the "monster play" characters get curbstomped just like every other NPC.  If it's balanced around PVP, then PVE most likely sucks.  (See:  Destiny 2, where everything is balanced around the PVP stats and nearly all weapons and powers are "bleh" or just flat out useless against NPCs.)

"Can a player-controlled avatar attack me? :(..."

Did...Did you honestly read the post?

I'm honestly not going to hold it against you if you didn't, like its fine dude, but the thread suggests a way to make it so you're competing with each other in a mission, you're not killing each other, just making it harder for your competitors.

Its a real good read honestly, I already know a lot of community love posting up high scores and stuff so something like this I think will be right up a lot of peoples alley like myself. 😄

[EmberStar]

Competition with another player is *also* PVP.  People *already* manage to turn missions into a toxic race to get Most Kills and Most Damage Done.  People being toxic about players not using "The Meta" is bad enough without additional incentive.

*Edit* and your post, which is what I was replying to, is the one that *specifically* mentioned mixing PVE and PVP. 

Edited December 4, 2018 by EmberStar

[Moogleoftheages]

Just now, EmberStar said:

Competition with another player is *also* PVP.  People *already* manage to turn missions into a toxic race to get Most Kills and Most Damage Done.  People being toxic about players not using "The Meta" is bad enough without additional incentive.

 

Gosh, that's really? Cynical? 😞 

Is there, like, no question in your mind that perhaps this could work? As something fun to do. Like, say that in the past few months you DIDN'T have one bad game, and they were all nice. Would that change your mind?

Is it because you find some of the community toxic that you're no longer open to new ideas?

[EmberStar]

2 minutes ago, Moogleoftheages said:

Gosh, that's really? Cynical? 😞 

Is there, like, no question in your mind that perhaps this could work? As something fun to do. Like, say that in the past few months you DIDN'T have one bad game, and they were all nice. Would that change your mind?
 

There is no question in my mind.  This will not work.  It will not be fun.  Nothing will change my mind, because I *HATE* playing competitive games.  Warframe is one of the only games I play online, and ONLY because it's exclusively co-op.  And even then, people find ways to screw it up.  (Being hateful about non-meta builds, and especially taking the chance to gank team mates during Radiation Sorties.)