When Farming Stops Being Fun

[officialyao]

I love this game, I really do, and I love farming for components you need for something you want. I accept that it's a part of the game and I embrace it. There is only one instance where farming is a terrible experience:

Trying to get a new warframe from assassination mission rewards. Not because you have to defeat the boss multiple times, I think that it's a great mechanic. There is one problem with it, though. When you defeat a boss, you're guaranteed to get a component blueprint of a warframe usually 33% chance for each part, but you're not guaranteed to get one you don't already have. This happens to me all the time: I want a specific warframe, I farm the boss, and I only get parts I already own. Now, it's alright to get the same part twice in a row and consider yourself a little unlucky. But when I was trying to get Frost, I got the Neuroptics consecutively for at least 7 times, before getting anything else. The odds of this happening are extremely low. At the moment, I'm trying to get Nekros, and I defeated Lephantis 6 times now and didn't get the Nekros Chassis yet. Needless to say, it's a frustrating experience, and it's discouraging me from doing something I was initially excited to do. I don't believe this should happen like this, because there is no sense of progress when it does. When you farm for plastids and get extremely unlucky, you get 15 plastids from a Plastid Carapace, and that sucks. But at least you got those 15 plastids and got closer to your goal. When you get 7 Neuroptics in a row, you practically didn't get a reward for defeating a boss. If bosses were just normal enemies with more health and damage, I really wouldn't mind that happening. But bosses take time and concentration to defeat. They're usually invulnerable and have one occasional weak spot you can hit for a few seconds. Even if you memorize all of their attacks and never get hit, if you don't have end-game equipment or a squad, it still takes time to defeat them.

My solution to this problem would be to make it so players have a much higher chance to get a component they don't already own, and to add a "pity timer" that basically guarantees a missing Item to drop after about two times of defeating the assassination target. I'm aware most players probably don't experience this problem, but I'm sure many other players do, and non-veteran solo players shouldn't have such a hard time getting warframe components when they do work for it.

 

Thanks for reading, I hope a dev takes it into consideration.

[peterc3]

20 minutes ago, officialyao said:

My solution to this problem would be to make it so players have a much higher chance to get a component they don't already own, and to add a "pity timer" that basically guarantees a missing Item to drop after about two times of defeating the assassination target.

Why would I buy a frame if it were that easy to farm it?

[officialyao]

1 minute ago, peterc3 said:

Why would I buy a frame if it were that easy to farm it?

I'm not asking for it to be easy, I'm asking for it to feel fair. getting 4 Nekros Systems in a row when I already have one, doesn't feel fair when it takes me 30 minutes to beat Lephantis.

[krc473]

26 minutes ago, officialyao said:

and non-veteran solo players shouldn't have such a hard time getting warframe components when they do work for it.

But you think it should be hard for veteran solo players? That seems totally fair .

 

How much platinum are you offering to pay for your "pity timer"? 

• Basically, explain to everyone why this would benefit DE.

 

The frustration in farming frames causes some people to buy them with platinum. How do you suggest DE compensates for this if your system was implemented?

Edited December 4, 2018 by krc473

[Ada_Wong_SG]

My suggestion is take your own sweet time.

This game is suppose to be entertaining, so go forma and upgrade your equipment until you can mock bosses
by melting them in 1 - 2 hits.

This make killing them less of a chore and more of a giggle, and running multiple missions less time consuming.
and can be sort of funny.

Don't expect RNG to be ever in your favor, if you find yourself frustrated at getting something, go play other mission
and farm other resources before coming back to the same boss.

[(PSN)OriginalEquinox]

RNG is a * in any game unfortunately and as the others mentioned, if DE were to increase the odds of you getting everything you need in as few runs as possible then players would never consider buying them as a option. Just keep that frame on hold for a bit and go back later, I used Rhino and Vectis P to solo him in under 10 minutes back then by focusing one head at a time, just waypoint it so you know where it spawns

[officialyao]

1 minute ago, krc473 said:

But you think it should be hard for veteran solo players? That seems totally fair 

What made you think that I think that it should be hard for veteran players? Veteran players have more equipment, weapons, primed weapons, warframes, mods, and ways to optimize their farming. Newer players don't have these luxuries and tend to have a hard time doing things that veteran players would consider trivial.

 

6 minutes ago, krc473 said:

The frustration in farming frames causes some people to buy them with platinum. How do you suggest DE compensates for this if you system was implemented?

Frustration with a game's core mechanic is not what leads most people to spend money on that game. Players spend Platinum in warframe to buy cosmetics, save time, and get access to things that they would otherwise have to progress a lot in the game for. For example, I would buy Nekros if I had absolutely no plans on trying to defeat Lephantis. I might buy Mesa if I don't plan on unlocking Eris anytime soon. I'm not going to spend money on a warframe because I got really unlucky and I'm only missing a Chassis Blueprint and I get other parts.

[Voltage]

17 minutes ago, officialyao said:

I'm not asking for it to be easy, I'm asking for it to feel fair. getting 4 Nekros Systems in a row when I already have one, doesn't feel fair when it takes me 30 minutes to beat Lephantis.

If you work at it, you will get all the parts and your time to complete the boss will be reduced significantly. Nekros is one of the easier Warframes to obtain.

Grind in this game is a catch 22. Players complain when grind is too high, and then those same players complain that there is a content drought or lack of stuff to do. Grind is healthy and it is a shame more Warframes are not implemented like Khora/Ivara.

[officialyao]

1 minute ago, Voltage said:

If you work at it, you will get all the parts and your time to complete the boss will be reduced significantly. Nekros is one of the easier Warframes to obtain.

Grind in this game is a catch 22. Players complain when grind is too high, and then those same players complain that there is a content drought or lack of stuff to do.

1

Eventually, I know I'm going to get it, and as I said, I embrace the grind. I don't complain about the grind being too high, and I won't complain about lack of content. The problem is that when the odds of getting a part are so high, it doesn't feel right when you only get parts you already have.

 

7 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Grind is healthy and it is a shame more Warframes are not implemented like Khora/Ivara.

I absolutely agree.

[krc473]

13 minutes ago, officialyao said:

What made you think that I think that it should be hard for veteran players?

This statement:

56 minutes ago, officialyao said:

and non-veteran solo players shouldn't have such a hard time getting warframe components when they do work for it.

My interpretation was "when compared to veteran solo players". I assumed this interpretation may not be what you meant, hence the question. But you did not provide any reference point, so one can only assume. You explained, and I was incorrect.

13 minutes ago, officialyao said:

Frustration with a game's core mechanic is not what leads most people to spend money on that game.

I mean, I purchased Nidus because I could not be bothered with farming it*. So yes, that kind of thing encourages people to spend money. If the Nidus farm was easy I would have just done it. I do not see your point. You will not spend money on it. So what? Others will.

• *The perceived effort to farm Nidus contributed (I hated the mission). It was by no means the only reason, but it was significant.

When farming for frames, it really does come down to what you enjoy. If you hate a game mode you may be more inclined to purchase the frame. I enjoyed farming for Ivara, I absolutely hated farming for Khora and Gara (to this day, farming Khora and Gara have been my most hated things in the entire game).

Edited December 4, 2018 by krc473

[officialyao]

6 minutes ago, krc473 said:

I mean, I purchased Nidus because I could not be bothered with farming it

You bought Nidus because you knew you would get frustrated if you farmed him. You didn't get to craft two out of his three components and then said "forget it, I'll just buy him with platinum".

 

10 minutes ago, krc473 said:

You will not spend money on it. So what? Others will.

A pity timer doesn't mean people won't buy these frames, It means that if you invest a certain amount of time trying to get a single warframe component from a boss you'd get it. Even if it's like after 10 or 15 times, you get a sense of progression, you can count the times you defeated it towards the pity timer limit and know you'll get it then, if not before. Right now it's an endless loop that might stop at some point, but you can never know for sure. This addition would be purely beneficial to DE, because many players quit out of frustration, and this prevents frustration to some extent, while still leaving the same incentive to buy frames with platinum, because knowing you might have to defeat a boss 15 time is overwhelming. It might drive more players to buy warframes with platinum than not having this mechanic, and it doesn't really affect most players' gameplay. It's just assurance.

[krc473]

Just now, officialyao said:

You didn't get to craft two out of his three components and then said "forget it, I'll just buy him with platinum".

Actually, I did. Farmed a couple of pieces, got bored of the mission and purchased it.

[officialyao]

Just now, krc473 said:

Actually, I did. Farmed a couple of pieces, got bored of the mission and purchased it.

Oh. Alright, I'll give you that.

What about my second point?

[krc473]

3 minutes ago, officialyao said:

What about my second point?

I did not see much need to comment on it. 

 

The people that will continue through the frustration of the grind are likely to be more committed to the game. It is more likely that these people will financially support DE. If someone quits over having to run the same mission a few times they are not showing much commitment. You could easily imagine how these people are unlikely to financially support DE.

• This is an over-simplification. We have no data. 

Realistically, we do not know either way. It is easy enough to argue one way or the other. 

 

Your suggestion would likely be beneficial to the players. The question really is "does this benefit outweigh the negatives [for DE]?" The fact that we do not have this type of system (despite how often it is suggested) would indicate that DE feels that it will not have a significantly positive effect for them to justify the time/effort/cost.

[officialyao]

I agree with everything you said, so I'll only comment on this:

3 minutes ago, krc473 said:

Your suggestion would likely be beneficial to the players. The question really is "does this benefit outweigh the negatives [for DE]?" The fact that we do not have this type of system (despite how often it is suggested) would indicate that DE feels that it will not have a significantly positive effect for them to justify the time/effort/cost.

If you take a look at the wiki, you can expect to get all parts after doing about 5-6 runs, and you are pretty much guaranteed to get all parts after 20 ± 6 runs. That means that a pity timer of 15 successful runs isn't really going to affect anything, at least technically. All it does is give the player a feeling of accomplishment even when they don't get what they want. Even if you didn't get it, it still counts towards the timer, and you know you're getting closer. The effect this will have on the game will probably only affect players who are committed anyway, and won't really change anyone's mind about buying frames with platinum. It makes players feel lucky when they don't have to play through the whole 15 runs. Look at what happened with the rested bonus in World of Warcraft: At first there was an xp penalty for players who played for too long, and they hated it. Then Blizzard made it so that the base xp is as low as the penalized players' and you get a "rested bonus" when you stop playing for a while. Players loved it, and Blizzard got what they wanted, which was for players to not burn out.

[Volinus7]

3 hours ago, officialyao said:

pity timer

Take note, Warframe is not a game that respects your time or effort when pRNG and variable ratio reinforcement are applied to extort your time and money.

 

You aren't the first person who ask for pity timer btw. 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Volinus7

[--END--Rikutatis]

To be honest, if you are frustrated with the farm for Starchart warframes that drop on bosses on a 33% drop chance, you'll most likely give up later on when you get to the quest warframes like Nidus, Harrow or Khora. On an 8-10% drop chance, and only at the C rotation of an endless mission at that. This is just the grindy nature of the game, to be honest. 

[(PSN)Herrwann69]

33% for each parts is the fairest farm you can find in the game.

Regarding the parts you own X time, just sell it, it's easy credit.

But you shouldn't try to farm a boss that you cannot kill very quickly yet. It means you still have to build up better gears and mods. Don't try hard, farm smart.

[iHaku]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Herrwann69 said:

Don't try hard, farm smart.

or jjust set it to public and have the other players smash the boss in 1 shot because player scaling on individual enemies isnt a thing in warframe.

[Kuestenjung]

Sorry, but you are saying you like to farm stuff and then you are already giving up by farmind Warframe parts via bosses? That´s probably the easiest and fastest way in this game to farm anything.

And saying this

vor 12 Stunden schrieb officialyao:

Now, it's alright to get the same part twice in a row and consider yourself a little unlucky.

doesn´t seem to me that you actually like farming.