Lock Conclave Feedback to Typhoons

[Yuri_Doujinshi]

What has always amazed me is that Destiny 2's PvP aspect and Conclave have almost exactly the same TTK. The difference is that D2 has a very floaty and slow movement system, while Warframes move at the speed of light. As long as you don't stop evading, you will almost never die; one time me and another guy were trying to kill each other with shotguns, and it took quite literally 5-10 minutes as we were both trying to flick shot the other guy mid-bullet jump. Whenever someone would get low, they would just run away and get their shields back. It was extremely silly. 

The only time I have ever had fun in PvP was with the limited time Valentines event, where everyone had a bow that one-shot killed. You only had to worry about hitting someone once while evading as opposed to 3-5 times while evading.

[Aramil999]

@Tachmag limiting feedback to Typhoons only is kinda ok idea, but too hard to implement so it won't happen. 

However Im just as u guys bored by this same threads with "cOnClAVe fiX" etc. bullS#&$ery, made by players who know nothing about Conclave

[Dromeos-Prime]

I mean it's like it's hard to go grab a friend, hop on to Russia/Australia and boost up to Typhoon making this whole thing moot when it comes to stopping trolls.

If anything it'll just make it harder for new players curious about conclave to learn about it, without going to general discussion where PvP threads go to die.

[low1991]

22 hours ago, zeymV4 said:

Alright, 20 people you just said ?

https://prnt.sc/lr33cr

And this is without Asian* Community. 

** -3 if you count the bots 😶

2589 conclave members offline (of all ranks?) out of 4,459,236 (via forum). That's not even a single 1 digit percentage of the total players (offline & online).

Some how these 0.0000000001% player pool deserves a sub-forum for a small section of the game that aren't even part of the main gameplay.

Edited December 6, 2018 by low1991

[----Legacy----]

5 hours ago, low1991 said:

2589 conclave members offline (of all ranks?) out of 4,459,236 (via forum). That's not even a single 1 digit percentage of the total players (offline & online).

Some how these 0.0000000001% player pool deserves a sub-forum for a small section of the game that aren't even part of the main gameplay.

Keep in mind:

- the amount of forum accounts displayed doesn't relate to active forum members, it jiat shows the amount of players who have logged in to forums at least once.

- the amount of players in the server was being used to prove that there is more than 20 people (there was a guy memeing around with that)

- not every single player who likes conclave is part of the discord server due to plenty of different reasons.

- these subforums are meant to improve the game mode while preventing pvp balance from mixing up with pve's lack of it. It's exactly the same as having ps4 and xb1 bug reports subforums since the ones found there will most likely be fixed on pc or straight up have bugs that don't appear for us.

[VanLyrr]

18 hours ago, low1991 said:

2589 conclave members offline (of all ranks?) out of 4,459,236 (via forum). That's not even a single 1 digit percentage of the total players (offline & online).

Some how these 0.0000000001% player pool deserves a sub-forum for a small section of the game that aren't even part of the main gameplay.

glad you're not the one deciding who deserves what or not.

[Cephalycion]

On 2018-12-06 at 2:44 PM, Yuri_Doujinshi said:

What has always amazed me is that Destiny 2's PvP aspect and Conclave have almost exactly the same TTK. The difference is that D2 has a very floaty and slow movement system, while Warframes move at the speed of light. As long as you don't stop evading, you will almost never die; one time me and another guy were trying to kill each other with shotguns, and it took quite literally 5-10 minutes as we were both trying to flick shot the other guy mid-bullet jump. Whenever someone would get low, they would just run away and get their shields back. It was extremely silly. 

The only time I have ever had fun in PvP was with the limited time Valentines event, where everyone had a bow that one-shot killed. You only had to worry about hitting someone once while evading as opposed to 3-5 times while evading.

I had the same idea too, to nerf the Warframe's movement systems so gunplay is easier. But this kind of idea doesn't really sit well with Conclavers as it is now, the fast paced action is something that they want to preserve and I respect that.

I think a solution, instead of dumbing down the movement to make it easier for players from literally any other pvp game whatsoever, we should bring those players up to OUR speed. Which means more training, more games of being stomped by vets.

The issue is that Conclave is very difficult to learn for the average player and most people give up before whirlwind even. Which is why I made the thread about having more tutorials for pvp.

[(PSN)ForcedSin_erity]

Nerfing the movement would require for many weapons/frames to be nerfed as well. Unfortunately the movement is what we got to get away from overperforming weapons and at the same time that same movement is keeping many players from getting into conclave...so yeah a good tutorial should have been here right from the start.

Edited December 9, 2018 by (PS4)FarCript

[Ezikeo]

With your entitled logic, instead of locking it to just Typoons, the whole forum should only be accessible to players that spent $100 or more on plat and are spending a minimum of $15 a month. Because at the end of the day, your ranks and game time means nothing, unless you are a paying customer. So your feedback and input is irrelevant.

[Teridax68]

Putting aside the gross elitism of such a suggestion, I fail to see how restricting Conclave discussion to some arbitrary Conclave rank, when literally no such censorship is done on any other part of the forum, would benefit discussion or the game mode. Conclave talk is already far too much of an echo chamber as is, and most of the well thought-through threads here come from people who don't have a particularly high Conclave rank. Meanwhile, much of what I've seen from veterans here has largely been pushback against any criticism of the mode that acknowledges Conclave's unpopularity, and a disturbing amount of proposals to somehow force more people to play Conclave, with these same vets dogpiling onto users the moment one of their Conclave clanmates decides to pick a fight with them. Even the less interesting "noob" threads calling for the removal of Conclave or the like are still valid opinions, and even if one dislikes that opinion as a player who enjoys Conclave, that does not give one license to silence that opinion.

As long as Conclave remains part of Warframe, any Warframe player's opinion on the matter is just as valid as that of a Conclave vet: while the latter will certainly have a deeper understanding of the mode than the former, if the discussion is simply on one's appreciation of Conclave, that does not matter: a player's immediate dislike of Conclave is just as valid as a vet's attachment to it, and both types of opinion have obviously made an impact, which is why Conclave hardly sees any play. In fact, it may even be more important to listen to the newbies than the vets, because what Conclave absolutely needs if it wants to survive is a significantly better new player experience. It's not really consistent to tell players to suck it up, get good, and maybe start enjoying the mode after a month of heavy play, but then somehow act surprised when these same players don't want to touch it, ever, when they could just play regular Warframe and have a much better time.

The fact that Warframe PvE, despite its janky learning curve and still fairly poor new player experience, has managed to garner a significantly larger playerbase, to me indicates that the problems of Conclave cannot be simply boiled down to players not wanting to commit (because Warframe is itself a game that requires a heavy commitment). However, because this seems to be the consensus among the dozen or so members of Warframe's dedicated Conclave community, who also seem to want to silence discussion from all other players, that to me is all the more reason to not restrict conversation on the matter. Alternatively, DE can in fact go through with this, restrict all Conclave discussion to a tiny playpit of people who all have the same, extremely minoritary opinion, and let Conclave become even smaller and more isolated than ever before, because at that point there would be no usable feedback that would help bring more players into the fold.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Teridax68

[Aramil999]

There are between 30 and 50 000 warframe players online at any given time on Steam, at least every 1 minute one of them trys to join conclave and sees empty matches so they leave and forget. So no, there is far more players who want to TRY out PvP in warframe but it is hidden, underpopulated, unrewarding and has too high skill floor.

Real Conclave fix should start with:

-adding Conclave as node to Star Chart,

-fixing new players loadout only having melee,

-adding Conclave alerts with normal alerts rewards like 300 oxium, 10k credits etc. for win and lose.

[EDM774]

4 hours ago, Aramil999 said:

adding Conclave alerts with normal alerts rewards like 300 oxium, 10k credits etc. for win and lose.

DE tried forcing conclave down players' throats with events and that got a huge backlash from the community as a whole. Personally I enjoyed them (Typhoon btw for any elitists wondering). And making PvP alerts in a PvE game?... oh boy the floodgates will not hold for a nanosecond the amount of backlash that PvP alerts will cause.

I think Conclave needs to incentivize player curiosity with starter matches with AI for beginners like a tutorial of sorts (since many ppl who want to try out conclave end up in empty lobbies and that throws them off) and we definitely need more restricted loadout game modes like those events where the meta weapon knowledge of the 'vets' means nothing and we only have to rely on evasion and skill.

 

As for the main topic of the OP as good as it sounds and as much as I'd like to agree with it it's just too elitist.

[rant]

The amount of elitism in this game always amazed me:

MR elitism back when raids were a thing, hydro cap counts for eidolons now, probably even orb mother caps when those come out as well, etc.

Why do ppl judge a book by it's cover all the damn time by looking at some number or title? I've seen low MR players and other unimpressive stats wise people that can do what vets can do (and sometimes even better).

I get the idea about the general rule of thumb and that there are exceptions but my point here is that I'm generally against elitism of any way, sort, kind or form.

[/rant]

Edited December 12, 2018 by EDM774

[Aramil999]

@EDM774 I mean not any kind of exclusive alerts like in the past but simple normal alerts, say 1 in 10 normal alerts is conclave alert so new players CAN EVEN SEE there is something like that.

I totaly agree with Player vs AI mode for players to train in and I am aware that players are way WAY WAY harder to play against and such training would be just the basic movement and shooting "tutorial". But still I believe that throwing new players vs old ones is too hard for normal casual players and skill floor is set way too high so AI enemies can at least somehow help them.

I never judge players PvP skill based on Conclave rank because it means basicly nothing. When I got my Typhoon, I was simply meat fodder for real PvP veterans like Techmag and many others.

Only real "skill rank" could be determined by Kill/Death ratio, Conclave kills (at least few thousends) and of course said player not using cheese weapons, warframes that need far less skill than say Furis and Braton (they are very strong I know but you need real skill to win matches only with them) like noobish Ignis/Arca Plasmor + Staticor + Zaw Dagger... or Baza + Loki decoy... skill needed to win matches with this 2 loadouts is very different.

[(XBOX)Dark SalvationX]

This needs to happen.

 

[(XBOX)Dark SalvationX]

On 2018-12-06 at 8:44 AM, low1991 said:

2589 conclave members offline (of all ranks?) out of 4,459,236 (via forum). That's not even a single 1 digit percentage of the total players (offline & online).

Some how these 0.0000000001% player pool deserves a sub-forum for a small section of the game that aren't even part of the main gameplay.

To bad it started off as pvp with dark sectors. 

 

[9-Breaker]

I second this opinion truthfully. 

 

[(PSN)Dubufu]

I think calling yourself a conclave "veteran" is funny considering how all you need is to use the current meta to be good.

I've been playing conclave since it started, but I would not lock out discussion to newbies who reasonably get their asses kicked, because well...it's a generally unbalanced experience, especially on console where tracking and cheap tactics take priority over good aim.

Let them give their feedback unless it's obviously just them being needlessly angry. As long as it is constructive with a reasonable amount of play, I do not mind newbies giving their piece of mind

Edited December 18, 2018 by (PS4)Dubufu