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Best Build for Rhino?


(PSN)Qanzuko
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15 minutes ago, (PS4)Surazaku said:

I found this, is this a gimmick build or is it good?

 

It's the right idea but not fully realized as many of his builds are.

Replace Stretch with Health Conversion and you get more armor than Ultimatum x2 ( 1350 Vs 1200 ) and you do not rely Execute finisher attack which doesn't scale outside using a CL dagger. Given the level range where you'd actually care about the eHP difference you will not generally kill enemies with a melee Finisher in one stroke. Using the finisher combo tied with Stringing Thorn stance will allow you to get that Execute on a CL dagger for majority of enemies.

Removing Bleed melee as a killing option for Rhino is hindering though as it happens to be some of his best damage output due to Roar double dipping into DoT effects. Both Bleed and Gas tick will get double the effects of Roar's multiplier and Melee happens to be very good at already producing big procs with both but if you want to use Guns instead then it's an option.

Health Conversion will gain health orb stacks naturally as you play or you can force it by using Synth Fiber on a Sentinel which allows you to pick up Health Orbs when both you and your Sentinel are already at full health. This can be useful if you happen to die past lvl 300 as it's hard to recover stacks by that point. You will not lose Health Conversion stacks unless you take actual health damage but if that happens then you'll probably die anyways.

To give a comparison on a Rhino with 254% Power Strength, Steel Fiber and 3 stacks on IronClad using Health Conversion instead would be.

Iron Clad 3 Enemies at 127% per
1200 + ( 2.5 * [(450 * 3) + 275 * (1 + 1.1)] * ( 1 + 2.54) * 3.81 = 66,192

If you wanted to throw both in the mix Health Conversion + Ultimatum x2

Iron Clad 3 Enemies at 127% per Ultimatum x2
1200 + ( 2.5 * [(450 * 3) + 1200 + 275 * (1 + 1.1)] * ( 1 + 2.54) * 3.81 = 106,655

Also you do not need to rank Iron Shrapnel. It's a waste of capacity. Though I've not tried both methods together I can tell you the higher in level you go the more often and quickly you must refresh Iron Skin and adding extra steps by swapping to melee stance, executing then proceeding with the usual Charge, Stomp, re-apply may not be worth the Arcane slots.

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2 hours ago, hooperinius said:

That guy's build is basically my build except I don't use stretch, I think I've got streamline in there or something...I thought about formaing him so I could fit umbral mods but IMHO the gain isn't large enough.

So are the augment mods a most have for Rhino for him to be effective?

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)Surazaku said:

So are the augment mods a most have for Rhino for him to be effective?

No. Ironclad Augment just lets you get to higher numbers, but you have to be quick and also get the other procs for this to really be worth it. Brozime was just fooling around.

As for Iron Skin Augment it's closer to a yes. Not necessary, but it helps if you have low amounts of armor left. Pop it when enemies are few and you don't risk to die. If you don't use this Augment you have to let enemies shoot down IS or jump down a ledge and respawn

Edited by GnarlsDarkley
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7 minutes ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

No. Ironclad Augment just lets you get to higher numbers, but you have to be quick and also get the other procs for this to really be worth it. Brozime was just fooling around.

As for Iron Skin Augment it's closer to a yes. Not necessary, but it helps if you have low amounts of armor left. Pop it when enemies are few and you don't risk to die. If you don't use this Augment you have to let enemies shoot down IS or jump down a ledge and respawn

Ok and for the umbra mods use them or not?

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3 minutes ago, (PS4)Surazaku said:

Ok and for the umbra mods use them or not?

Feel free to use them. I just use Intensify because it's the only mod which fits into my old builds. There are indeed different umbra builds/combinations I would use, but I would have to forma my Rhino another 5 times for just 50 more Health, 60 more Armor and 20% Strength...which isn't worth it imo 

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If you use Umbra mods on Rhino it will lock you out of other builds. There's no way around it.

Rhino is my 3rd most used frame and I've tried hard to fit them. It's not worth it. The benefit of Health Conversion dwarfs what the Umbra mods give but if you want "The best Rhino build" as in generalize Iron Skin, Roar, Stomp tanky damage dealer using Umbra mods this is it.  https://goo.gl/SkehSU

If you want a good Roar or Stomp build you will have to make another Rhino but no one can make a better Iron Skin + Roar build than that.

I personally don't do it because I like to use Rush on my Rhino with his Arcane Vanguard helm and if I want to use Rush I have to use Steel Charge in place of Growing Power which counters the point of using the Umbra mods and it's just rather redundant at that point.

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1 minute ago, Xzorn said:

If you use Umbra mods on Rhino it will lock you out of other builds. There's no way around it.

Rhino is my 3rd most used frame and I've tried hard to fit them. It's not worth it. The benefit of Health Conversion dwarfs what the Umbra mods give but if you want "The best Rhino build" as in generalize Iron Skin, Roar, Stomp tanky damage dealer using Umbra mods this is it.  https://goo.gl/SkehSU

If you want a good Roar or Stomp build you will have to make another Rhino but no one can make a better Iron Skin + Roar build than that.

I personally don't do it because I like to use Rush on my Rhino with his Arcane Vanguard helm and if I want to use Rush I have to use Steel Charge in place of Growing Power which counters the point of using the Umbra mods and it's just rather redundant at that point.

So health conversion is a must aswell?  I have not touched rhino prime since I got him years ago I am just now putting forma into him I am thinking about making him my go to tank.

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18 minutes ago, (PS4)Surazaku said:

So health conversion is a must aswell? 

There are more colors than only black and white. There are no "must haves", only suggestions and preferences.

I gave you 3 different builds you can absolute work with. You can also change them slighty to use with lesser Forma or make Umbra builds with more Forma. Get all Augments and test them for yourself and find out if they suit you or not

Edited by GnarlsDarkley
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3 minutes ago, (PS4)Surazaku said:

So health conversion is a must aswell?  I have not touched rhino prime since I got him years ago I am just now putting forma into him I am thinking about making him my go to tank.

 

At lower levels you won't need it but when you do, it will be there. A basic IronClad build will laugh at lvl 100 enemies for the most part but once enemies start to hit hard enough to strip the base value of IronClad Skin you will have gained 3 stacks and can triple your base Iron Skin values.

I often have 3 stacks by 20 minutes into a mission or a few minutes into Sorties and as I mentioned you can force quicker stack gains by using two of the new Synth mods when those come out. Think Fortuna goes to cert for consoles today actually. Synth Fiber and/or Synth Deconstruct . Fiber allows you to pick up Health orbs without you or your Sentinel having taken damage.

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5 minutes ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

There are more colors than only black and white. There are no "must haves", only suggestions and preferences.

I gave you 3 different builds you can absolute work with. You can also change them slighty to use with lesser Forma or make Umbra builds with more Forma. Get all Augments and test them for yourself and find out if they suit you or not

Well I am looking for the best Rhino build for end game I have no experience with Rhino that's why I am asking.

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5 minutes ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

There are more colors than only black and white. There are no "must haves", only suggestions and preferences.


Yes, this is why I would not recommend Umbra mods on Rhino. He's a fairly versatile frame and they will lock him to a single build.

Roar is his 2nd often used build. Stomp doesn't see much light these days since Nullifiers but there's all different mixes in between.

@OP  Why I was specific about defining " The Best build ".

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1 minute ago, Xzorn said:


Yes, this is why I would not recommend Umbra mods on Rhino. He's a fairly versatile frame and they will lock him to a single build.

Roar is his 2nd often used build. Stomp doesn't see much light these days since Nullifiers but there's all different mixes in between.

@OP  Why I was specific about defining " The Best build ".

So an ideal build would be the one that Brozim did because it has high iron skin and long roar duration while still having a long stomp.

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9 minutes ago, (PS4)Surazaku said:

So an ideal build would be the one that Brozim did

If you think it's the ideal build, then yes.

Do I think it's the ideal build? No. Reason? I want to use my builds the best I can, so I won't use an Allround build for my missions.

See it this way:

- Brozimes build can Roar. But mine (B) can it better (higher and longer)

- his build can stomp. Mine (A) has more Range and Duration

- his build can use IS. My IS is probaly higher (C)

 

so why cripple 3 builds into 1 when I have 3 Loadouts? I barely need to use all 3 at the same time.

for example: I don't need stomp or Roar in Index. Sure it can help, but it's more important to not die while collecting points. I mean that's why I play Rhino. If I want to kill the enemies I prefer Mesa.

If enemies are immobilized for 20 seconds (and you can recast Stomp) there is no need to have a 10 million IS

Edited by GnarlsDarkley
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12 minutes ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

If you think it's the ideal build, then yes.

Do I think it's the ideal build? No. Reason? I want to use my builds the best I can, so I won't use an Allround build for my missions.

See it this way:

- Brozimes build can Roar. But mine (B) can it better (higher and longer)

- his build can stomp. Mine (A) has more Range and Duration

- his build can use IS. My IS is probaly higher (C)

 

so why cripple 3 builds into 1 when I have 3 Loadouts? I barely need to use all 3 at the same time.

for example: I don't need stomp or Roar in Index. Sure it can help, but it's more important to not die while collecting points. I mean that's why I play Rhino. If I want to kill the enemies I prefer Mesa.

If enemies are immobilized for 20 seconds (and you can recast Stomp) there is no need to have a 10 million IS

I started this thread hours ago and I am no closer to figuring out the preferred build for Rhino, if combining all the builds to make a solid well rounded frame is a negative I don't know what to focus on I don't even have arcanes I just got back on after almost a year.

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18 minutes ago, (PS4)Surazaku said:

if combining all the builds to make a solid well rounded frame is a negative I don't know what to focus on

I think you just don't understand our point of view.

There are so many possibilities there is no perfect/ideal/best build for any frame. Pick the mods YOU want to use. Make him, how YOU want him to be. Are you lazy? Sure, go ahead and use Brozime's build. It does the job. And it does it very well. Do you want to min/max then you will have to use warframe-builder and invest many hours crafting the build/forma him until it suffices your desire.

The point you seem to miss: there is no wrong. (Ok there is, but this would mean Redirection or some other real useless stuff)

There are millions of players and all of them have different opinions. I watch a lot of partners, read many posts/threads and combine the impressions into the result I want.

There are player/partner who use a 100% Eff Nova with Vitality and Redirection. I think it's a huge mistake and plain stupid, but they can stay hours into Arbitrations with it. So why should they be worse than mine?

 

9 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

This is the perfect example. It's Xzorn's ideal build, that's why they're using it. My build has 114% more Power Strength with half its energy cost to cast, but their build may end up with higher values after 3 stacks of HC. Downside of my build: it cannot and will not under any circumstances be a valid Buffer (5 seconds iirc). But I don't need Roar in missions I use IS.

Xzorn's build is also a good Buffer, but you can't compare it to my build. Double the Duration and higher values, but people have to actually gather around me which makes it kinda useless in public missions (if I play them).

Their build is much more multipuprose than mine, but I am fine with it. It's exactly the way I want my builds to be: highly specialized.

I don't want to sound narcissistic, if anyone may think it. Every build has its reason to exist

Edited by GnarlsDarkley
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34 minutes ago, (PS4)Surazaku said:

So an ideal build would be the one that Brozim did because it has high iron skin and long roar duration while still having a long stomp.

 

It's very similar but the build can be improved. This is what I use.

1KIZTgN.jpg

https://imgur.com/1KIZTgN

You'll notice they're almost the same except I'm using Health Conversion and Growing Power. Also didn't rank Iron Shrapnel cuz that's pointless. My Power Strength is 5% less because of my Arcane Vanguard helm. I put emphasis on mobility over a little more Iron Skin.

Roar is Rhino's other used build as I mentioned. The difference between those is around a 200% Roar instead of 154% but far less Iron Skin HP.

Stomp doesn't get used much since at high enough level a Nullifier can one-shot a Stomp build. This is esp true in Fortuna. Stomp is pretty much for Grineer these days and that's about it because there are better CC frames to choose from who can protect themselves and other players from Nully bubbles whereas Rhino cannot.

EDIT:  ...And yea. Player perspective plays a large role in builds. The level range people fight and the missions they do. I'm an endurance runner and I mostly Solo these days so scaling potential is a big concern to me.

 

Edited by Xzorn
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20 minutes ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

I think you just don't understand our point of view.

There are so many possibilities there is no perfect/ideal/best build for any frame. Pick the mods YOU want to use. Make him, how YOU want him to be. Are you lazy? Sure, go ahead and use Brozime's build. It does the job. And it does it very well. Do you want to min/max then you will have to use warframe-builder and invest many hours crafting the build/forma him until it suffices your desire.

The point you seem to miss: there is no wrong. (Ok there is, but this would mean Redirection or some other real useless stuff)

There are millions of players and all of them have different opinions. I watch a lot of partners, read many posts/threads and combine the impressions into the result I want.

There are player/partner who use a 100% Eff Nova with Vitality and Redirection. I think it's a huge mistake and plain stupid, but they can stay hours into Arbitrations with it. So why should they be worse than mine?

 

This is the perfect example. It's Xzorn's ideal build, that's why they're using it. My build has 114% more Power Strength with half its energy cost to cast, but their build may end up with higher values after 3 stacks of HC. Downside of my build: it cannot and will not under any circumstances be a valid Buffer (5 seconds iirc). But I don't need Roar in missions I use IS.

Xzorn's build is also a good Buffer, but you can't compare it to my build. Double the Duration and higher values, but people have to actually gather around me which makes it kinda useless in public missions (if I play them).

Their build is much more multipuprose than mine, but I am fine with it. It's exactly the way I want my builds to be: highly specialized.

I don't want to sound narcissistic, if anyone may think it. Every build has its reason to exist

You seem quite entitled to call me lazy for wanting to acquire as much information as possible before I waste time and forma, I guess being cautious and wanting answers makes me lazy.  I was taking all you said into consideration but calling me lazy was unnecessary.

Edited by (PS4)Surazaku
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Just now, (PS4)Surazaku said:

You seem quite entitled to call me lazy for wanting to acquire as much information as possible before I waste time and forma,

Absolutely not. If it made the impression then I am sorry. I don't know you and I don't know your preferences. That's why I was differentiating. I was even asking.

22 minutes ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

Are you lazy?

If you are (and you have every right to be lazy) then you absolutely should try to get an Allround build. I am just pointing out, that these builds do always suffer some kind of negative.

Same if you actually want an Allround build. There is no need to be defensive or feeling insulted if you want to use them. I have no right to tell you what to use, I can only tell you what wouldn't use and why. If you don't share the same opinion then it is totally fine.

If you are not lazy on the other hand then you can make your own builds and I told you how.

 

You can always copy from people, but you will never get the same results...because well, they are just copies. They are not personal. (This is also fine. Again no need to feel insulted but wihout explanation neither Xzorn's nor my builds would have the same results if you are using them).

 

PS: It's 1am for me. I will just summarize my posts again and head to bed.

- Try different builds

- Try to understand the build you are looking (why do they use the mods)

- Make changes (if you want more duration, then just swap out another mod...whichever it will be)

 

So far: good luck and don't get demotivated! 🙂 

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