Max Framerate

[notNSANE]

hey @[DE]Glen, not sure if you read it, but I'm sure you will find this article interesting, it's by the Serious Sam devs and they found a huge problems with Windows drawing APIs too: https://medium.com/@alen.ladavac/the-elusive-frame-timing-168f899aec92

It's very detailed, like your post. Hope you can exchange notes! 🙂

[KingOfPredators]

I am glad that someone is looking into this. Not that I use this option directly since Radeon chill solved stuttering issues for me and max framerate is there for loading screen and cutscenes since chill does not work there... On top of that, only AMD cards have access to chill and everyone should have smooth gameplay without vsync

[Basqui]

Wow. The old max framerate cap in game always bothered me because it was giving me a max-2 result so i was using rivatuner to cap the framerate instead. I'm going to check this out later on.

[Septario]

Thanks for working on the FPS counter and frame times. I will echo other statements here in that these kind of optimizations are neccesary even if they are not the flashiest of things. A lot of people will just notice that things are more smoother but not really know why.

I have also been using Afterburner and RTSS to cap my FPS. I understand that tools like RTSS have a 1 frame delay for the FPS cap. I wonder if the in game engine cap doesn't have this delay.
With a Gsync monitor the preferred cap tends to be screen refresh rate - 3 for the FPS cap. This way the Gsync doesn't turn off when it meets or exceeds the refresh rate.
Could we get a slider for the FPS limiter by chance to be able to set it more granularly in these situations?

This is major step in the ability to not have to use an external tool manage my FPS.

[Ktro]

8 hours ago, Zyneris said:

Sounds good! Was actually very interesting to read through this 🙂 .

Also....

Assuming you're actually talking about XP, it retired in 2014. 

That being said, I'm wondering it's just a typo and you meant Win7 which is scheduled for retirement next year.

What he meant was in a previous update devs have said warframe is going to drop support for 32 bit systems in total as well as old operating systems like xp and vista which will come in 2019 as they have to make less compatibility changes and concentrate on improving 64 bit going forward

[[DE]Glen]

2 hours ago, XCanG said:

Due to my current play state I frequently just run a game and minimize it and do other stuff, checking the game time to time. What is problem: in borderless mode and in current state it utilize much CPU/GPU, so my suggestion is simply: when game are not in focus or minimized it will restrict itself in framerate and so on.

We already stop rendering when the game is minimized. The simulation still runs but it's not drawing anything.

[-Bv-Psykiik]

you are a Hero .. a real life savior 

Thank You

I have one question .. I always play full borderless bcos its faster and easier to alt tab to discord or wiki 

but I keep vsync always off ... 

but from what I read you say that vsync is auto on while on borderless even if we set it off in display settings 

is that right or did I misunderstood

[Daffan]

9 hours ago, Myscho said:

While we talking about Dynamic resolution, do you guys thinking about expanding that setting as chance to go above 100% (SuperSampling AA) ??

Ive try Nvidia DSR 4.00x which is equivalent of 4K resolution, but UI is just terrible at that scale even on Custom setting

I'd love this. Being able to go up to 200% is standard in games that allow this feature. 

Warframe is one of those games that most GPUs never even ramp up, so much performance waiting to be used. 

26 minutes ago, -Bv-Psykiik said:

you are a Hero .. a real life savior 

Thank You

I have one question .. I always play full borderless bcos its faster and easier to alt tab to discord or wiki 

but I keep vsync always off ... 

but from what I read you say that vsync is auto on while on borderless even if we set it off in display settings 

is that right or did I misunderstood

If you use Windows 10, it forces V-sync when you play windowed and border less IIRC.

 

 

[Darkmatt3r]

You are a living good.thank you Glen

[Vorastra]

A quick question, I assume that Warframe runs on a heavily modified Unreal Engine? 3? 3.5? The texture streaming and shadows showing through the bottom of meshes are kind of a giveaway 🤐 

[Arniox]

I push around 200 fps when I'm solo, and I use a 1440p 165hz monitor so what does that mean for me? Will that still be accurate 

[Auphorion]

I've definitely noticed optimizations recently, to quite a major degree, and this article was a great read - I can see that those of us with.... less capable computers aren't left in the dust, and have a better time. Additionally, I learned a couple things I didn't know about, due to the explanation - things that I was curious about, but that there wasn't a great way to find the answers to, so I also really appreciate discovering the reasons behind something I noticed ~4 years ago (on a different computer)

The most fantastic part of this is that I was not aware I was even using VSync until reading this article, so I'm easily getting double the frame rate, and can actually probably bump up my resolution settings instead of being stuck.... well below native.... so thank you very much!

[ullll]

Sorry for my english.

Does this improvement mean dynamic resolution (auto) will now properly kick in when fps drop below Max framerate?

[CatboyPrincess]

Framerate has felt a lot more consistent already, thank you so much for your work!

[Faulcun]

9 hours ago, taiiat said:

you're probably not doing anything wrong. both the iGPU and dedicated GPU in your Notebook are doing the best they can. thankfully your dedicated GPU has enough Memory to not encounter extra slow downs.
you could always check the Nvidia Control Panel and make sure that all games are always forcing the Dedicated GPU, but if it already is, then that's what you've got. you could try using Dynamic Resolution if you are not already, but that would be about the end of your options.

Yeah theres only one gpu on this thing. No dual. I just find it hilarious that he can pull double fps with a macbook air.

[den2k]

14 hours ago, [DE]Glen said:

It took a few experiments but I found a more sophisticated way to work with Windows to get woken up at the right time

Did you use KeDelayExecutionThread or some busy wait with QueryPerformanceCounter?

[sehafoc]

TL;DR Confirmed, my frames seem to have noticeably more butter 🙂 Thanks for the updates!

I'm in a windowed mode at "max frame rate" setting because the eyefinity setup I have doesn't work with WF.  Previously even though the frame rate counter was registering > 100 FPS I would still get noticeable stutter.

[sehafoc]

TL;DR Confirmed, my frames seem to have noticeably more butter 🙂 Thanks for the updates!

I'm in a windowed mode at "max frame rate" setting because the eyefinity setup I have doesn't work with WF.  Previously even though the frame rate counter was registering > 100 FPS I would still get noticeable stutter.

[muziqaz]

Oh, this is awesome. I have Freesync 144hz monitor and have frames capped at 144fps. But occasionally I would get some stutters to see that FPS counter went to 145fps, that's when freesync disables itself as frame count goes above my monitors freesync range of 45-144hz. I updated to latest patch but had no time to play under it, so this evening I will be keeping close eye on this. Great stuff.

Thanks

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, Faulcun said:

Yeah theres only one gpu on this thing. No dual. I just find it hilarious that he can pull double fps with a macbook air.

your Notebook has a low end GPU on the Processor, as well as a Dedicated one that is much higher performance.
assuming that the Model Number of your Notebook that you gave is accurate(and that your Notebook has the i7-2630QM option rather than the i5-2410M option).

the iGPU in the 2013 Macbook Air is about 2.5-2.7x as fast as the iGPU in your Notebook, while the Dedicated GPU in your Notebook is about 2.3-2.4x as fast as the iGPU in your Notebook. in real world scenarios your dedicated GPU should fare a bit better than on paper though, as since it is a real GPU it has much faster Memory than the System Memory that iGPU's rely on (and Memory speed is a big deal for GPU's).
even so though, it's possible that the HD5000 in the 2013 Macbook Air outperforms your 560m by a bit (and the HD3000 on your Processor by a lot).

my recommendations for optimizing your performance are the same as i mentioned already (make sure games are set to using the dedicated GPU in your Notebook, turn on Dynamic Resolution).

6 hours ago, -Bv-Psykiik said:

but from what I read you say that vsync is auto on while on borderless even if we set it off in display settings 

on Windows Vista, 7, 8, and 10 - when you are seeing or capable of seeing the Windows Desktop without minimizing a game or any other rendered Application you are running - the entire screen(s) you are seeing is always VSynced.

on Vista & 7 technically you can disable this by turning off Aero and using a Basic Theme. on 8 and 10 the Desktop is.... just always VSynced. for all of these, this is referred to as Desktop Compositing(or Composition, same word just different tenses). 
technically on Windows 10 you can force Desktop Compositing off, but it's really hacky and has some regularity in causing stuff to just randomly crash.

Exclusive Fullscreen in rendered Applications has and has always bypassed any conflicts with the Desktop environment by that it is unloaded and ceasing to render the Desktop and instead switching to just that Application in question.
if you have multiple Displays you can still view (but not interact with)things in the background on the Desktop without interfering with what the other Display is showing in Exclusive Fullscreen.

_{i also recently after getting a new Display have been fiddling with some hacky tools that let you fully access (sort of as if you were running the game in Borderless Fullscreen) the background while having an Exclusive Fullscreen Application up - astoundingly it does work, though it is not perfect and it can break out of the blue sometimes, requiring restarting of the game or even the entire system to reset things.
just mentioning that it does exist}

[sam686]

I use AMD 2400g integrated Vega 11 graphics using FreeSync HDMI Acer XF270F-S. Interestingly, when I use NVidia GT 1030 and plug videos into Vega Graphics, I got hybrid FreeSync NVidia rendered graphics that speeds up Ryzen CPU. The Xbox DVR to record gameplay works on AMD Vega graphics, when GT 1030 have no NVENC at all.

 

I like to see MAX Frame rate not be grayed out when v-sync is on, useful for FreeSync / G-Sync monitors with variable refresh rates.

I like to see the ability to put any number on Max Frame rate, and not reset back to 120 or 144 after editing EE.cfg, Graphics.MaxFrameRate=135.

 

6 hours ago, [DE]Glen said:

We already stop rendering when the game is minimized. The simulation still runs but it's not drawing anything.

Full screen minimize won't be so bad, if me and others did not randomly get stuck on infinite loading screen after minimize, with DX10/DX11 enabled. Edit: inventory not loading and the infinite loading have just happened to me at the time of this reply. This is still a problem that have never seen any fixes.

 

[taiiat]

18 minutes ago, sam686 said:

I like to see MAX Frame rate not be grayed out when v-sync is on, useful for FreeSync / G-Sync monitors with variable refresh rates.
I like to see the ability to put any number on Max Frame rate, and not reset back to 120 or 144 after editing EE.cfg, Graphics.MaxFrameRate=135.

just so you know, if you want to take advantage of FreeSync or G-Sync on your Display(s), you should have V-Sync disabled in every game that you play. otherwise the V-Sync will interfere with the alternative Syncing technologies and render them useless(for times that you meet your Displays' set maximum Refresh Rate).

the recommended methodology of utilizing both is to have V-Sync off, and then have a Framerate Limit that is a few below the maximum Refresh Rate of your Display. that prevents either of these technologies switching off due to exceeding the Refresh Rate, while adding much, much, much less Latency than using V-Sync (which is the entire point of getting a Display that supports either one of these technologies, to not need to use V-Sync to avoid tearing anymore).

 

so while you have a valid request, for what you're trying to do, that applying a Framerate Limit with V-Sync on is not possible is non-applicable to you anyways. :)

[sam686]

21 minutes ago, taiiat said:

(for times that you meet your Displays' set maximum Refresh Rate).

That is still why I want the Frame rate limit to work at a little less then refresh rate, so the game will never go to the maximum refresh rate and have a little more latency for hitting the max refresh rate of V-sync. With dynamic refresh rate monitor and is within the range of refresh rate, the monitor is ready to immediately start showing the new frame, no screen tearing, no latency. For some places like Cetus, the game struggles to go at about 90 FPS. This is the time where I see no difference of latency at all, while FreeSync is on for both V-sync on and off settings.

The problem is the loading screen and Onslaught Sanctuary's materializing conduct, that the game drops to a stuttering 30 fps and short freeze for a short time. Do I really want screen tearing every time the game loads something?

[taiiat]

7 minutes ago, sam686 said:

The problem is the loading screen and Onslaught Sanctuary's materializing conduct, that the game drops to a stuttering 30 fps and short freeze for a short time. Do I really want screen tearing every time the game loads something?

it sounds like you're using a very early FreeSync Monitor(that were only able to perform within a smaller range of what FreeSync is setup to handle)? you may be out of luck then, yes.
i assumed that the Display was a more recent model that doesn't have restrictions on what Range FreeSync can apply, and therefore be functional in the full 9-240Hz Range of FreeSync.

[Chaos.Blades]

THANK YOU! I pointed this out in a thread about G-Sync I posted some months ago. I look forward to testing this out vs RTSS CPU caps. Still, if you use G-Sync or even FreeSync you should be reducing the cap by 3Hz to stay in variable refresh range.

https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/