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Rivens need to be revisited!


Reaver_X
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So i been feeling for a while that rivens are mostly not worth the time and effort unless you have no issue with dumping loads of plat into it, because its unrealistic to expect that your going to get what you want by rerolling them on your own. Scott from DE in a recent vid from Tactical potato said they don't think having the ability to lock one stat on a riven is a good idea because then they become OP....well here's the thing, theres already OP rivens in the game, and unfortunately are basically gated by the rediculous amount of plat they go for. So that point doesnt make any sense because we already have OP rivens with optimal stats, just your unlikely to roll one yourself.

TBH i think this is the biggest off put to the riven system for me, i rarely get involved with it, due to both how hard it is to roll a riven with good stats and how expensive it can get to get a riven with the right stats. I want to be involved more with this content, but its just so hard due to either the cost, or the low low LOW probability of even getting close to something you want.

i think the idea that the rivens arent supposed to be these amazingly powerful mods and are supposed to be these quirky expermiental things is denying the reality of it. People want optimal stats....otherwise they wouldnt be shelling out 10k-20k platinum for it, majority of them really don't care about having a *quirky* mod for they're gun.

having the ability to lock in one stat (and only one) would make the game overall more healthy tbh as far as rivens are concerned. Yes it would drive down that price but that'd also be a very good thing. I'm pretty sure i speak for more than just myself when i say that I'd happily pay 1000 plat each for 10 mods than 10,000 plat for one mod.

Edited by Reaver_X
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There is already no truly tough content tho, so that argument holds no water. Maybe once we actually have something that could be considered endgame you'd have something. But then in that case it might make even more sense to have good rivens be more accessible.

 

Diablo lets you lock in 1 stat, and its STILL hard to get an absolutely perfect piece of gear. i don't think doing the same here would be that much different.

Edited by Reaver_X
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You’re saying it’s near impossible to roll the ones you want so people are forced to buy them for plat?  You do realise all those rivens bought and sold for plat were rolled by someone?

change your approach here - instead of looking for specific rivens, open your own rivens and build whatever weapon that riven is for.

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except i don't care about half those weapons, i'm not gonna use a flux rifle regardless of what the stats on that riven are. There are a fair number of weaps in this game that not even rivens will save, sorry to tell you.

 

and yes, so one person out of thousands of people manages to roll one really good riven, that just proves my point.

Edited by Reaver_X
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14 minutes ago, Reaver_X said:

having the ability to lock in one stat (and only one) would make the game overall more healthy tbh as far as rivens are concerned.

Okay, I was always against the idea of Stat Locking Rivens, I'm going to say that right now....but your "Only One" did make me pause and think for a moment...

What if DE introduced a new Riven Resource, similar to how they did with the Riven Transmuter from Eidolons, only this time made this farmable drop Tradable, like Gemstones and such...
And what if you could use this item Once on a Riven to lock a stat in. (Maybe also allow using the item again to unlock that stat so it can be rolled away)

 

That MIGHT work for me, because you are right, Riven Prices are too high, and I do as a Riven Trader profit off of that. Not in the Thousands every week or anything, but I do still profit on the lower end of it all the same. They need to be toned down, and that might be an in-between idea to maybe do it. (Sorta like what Riven.Market did: When there are 25 other Kohm's with Status + Multishot, if you want to sell your's in a reasonable time frame, you're gonna need to sell cheaper)

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1 minute ago, Reaver_X said:

There is already no truly tough content tho, so that argument holds no water. Maybe once we actually have something that could be considered endgame you'd have something. But then in that case it might make even more sense to have good rivens be more accessible.

I'm not talking about current, I'm talking about anything they can add. If they add a gamemode, that is actually tough without rivens, but have allowed people to lock stats to roll OP rivens, that game mode is going to be complained about by veterans with super overpowered rivens because it is easy for them.

 

Game balance shouldn't be based around rivens, ever, which is basically what will happen if you lock stats.

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If your definition of a "good" Riven actually means perfect "godly" Rivens then you'll always be dissatisfied with the system.

There is no content in the entire game outside of the self-imposed restrictions of extreme endurance runs that remotely requires anything close to these "godly" 10-20k plat Rivens.

 

If Rivens need changes they need a massive overhaul (nerf) to their stats before anything remotely similar to stack locking should be considered.

Anything that makes getting these "godly" Rivens easier to acquire would simply allow the people who already farm for them to amass even more. But worse than that it would allow the average player to get more of these for little effort and when "godly" Rivens become the norm in regular people's builds then the game needs to start being balanced around them which won't be pretty or healthy for the game.

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3 minutes ago, trst said:

If your definition of a "good" Riven actually means perfect "godly" Rivens then you'll always be dissatisfied with the system.

There is no content in the entire game outside of the self-imposed restrictions of extreme endurance runs that remotely requires anything close to these "godly" 10-20k plat Rivens.

 

If Rivens need changes they need a massive overhaul (nerf) to their stats before anything remotely similar to stack locking should be considered.

Anything that makes getting these "godly" Rivens easier to acquire would simply allow the people who already farm for them to amass even more. But worse than that it would allow the average player to get more of these for little effort and when "godly" Rivens become the norm in regular people's builds then the game needs to start being balanced around them which won't be pretty or healthy for the game.

I'm all for nerfing the stats of these rivens if it means making it easier to get the stats you want.

 

 

Extra: also i don't think kohm rivens are in need of nerfing tbh, take away the ability to achieve 100% status and the weapon becomes meh. if anything the Kohm is one of the few examples of the types of weapons that rivens were *intended* for.

that being said if they nerf rivens as a whole, there are certain stats that should be nerfed, and certain ones that really don't, mostly the damage increasing stats would be the ones to be nerfed. Crit chance, Crit damage, Multishot, Damage, etc. Stuff like status, fire rate, reload speed could be left alone.

Edited by Reaver_X
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Also, posting my previous statement made on Stat-Locking Rivens here too, as I feel it is somewhat relevant to the over-all discussion:

On 2018-12-02 at 6:05 PM, Tangent-Valley said:

My Two Cents beyond my previously posted Statements:

If Players want Riven stat locking, then Riven mods as a whole need to be seriously toned down first (Read as: Nerfed) to match levels similar to Corrputed Mods, thereby making them more of a Player Choice of whether they want Argon Scope with 135% Crit on Head shots while Aiming, or their Riven with 85% Crit, 35% Multishot, and Negative Fire-Rate.

Only when they reach this level do I feel Stat Locking can be a Fair and Balanced thing.


This doesn't seem to be likely to happen though because, well, just from recent history, DE themselves were too scared to nerf Kohm's disposition along with all the other Popular-Use Community Choice Weapons, so it's VERY unlikely they'll tone down all Rivens to such a state as previously mentioned.

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4 minutes ago, Reaver_X said:

well if thats what your saying, your to little to late as thats what rivens pretty much already are, if they didnt want that they should have never introduced rivens to begin with.

They aren't, because they aren't that easy to get. Unless you're seriously grinding rivens, or actively trading for the purpose of collecting them, you're not going to have a godly riven. I personally try sometimes and don't have any. They also haven't done it, because as you said we don't have any tough content for weapons without rivens, so you can only one shot so hard.

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Just now, Reaver_X said:

I'm all for nerfing the stats of these rivens if it means making it easier to get the stats you want.

Then what becomes the point of Rivens besides making them a +damage,multishot,elemental damage/crit stats -negligible stat mod for every weapon?

If it was easy to get this mod then Warframe's progression grinds to a halt once you reach the "Riven wall" where you need to do nothing but farm Rivens and Kuva until you get the weapon Riven you want and still rng the stats out. This 'Riven wall" does not exist currently but it'll need to if Riven mods become this easy.

I'm not saying that they don't need changes at all but that stat locking is not the change they need currently.

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Removing riven from game isn't solution. i know few people don't get easly godly ones or cant afford but that dsn't mean remove rivens from game. bc of rivens DE are making so much money from this. and what u will do if they will remove riven from game? how will you kill high lvl enemies? u want limitations? 

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3 minutes ago, Reaver_X said:

*all that stat locking*

i believe i only ever said being able to lock 1 singular stat, no more than that. of course being able to lock 2-3 would be ridiculous.

There are several thousand stat combinations for Rivens and locking even a single stat reduces that number immensely.

Considering that people already grind out these perfect Rivens without stat locking we would be literally swimming in them with stat locking.

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Just now, TheNytmare said:

Removing riven from game isn't solution. i know few people don't get easly godly ones or cant afford but that dsn't mean remove rivens from game. bc of rivens DE are making so much money from this. and what u will do if they will remove riven from game? how will you kill high lvl enemies? u want limitations? 

TBH with the right weapons i can kill high level enemies without rivens, and as much as i think that rivens were a mistake, pandora's box was opened. Can't really close it up again so pretty much the only thing you can do is make the best of the situation.

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1 minute ago, trst said:

There are several thousand stat combinations for Rivens and locking even a single stat reduces that number immensely.

Considering that people already grind out these perfect Rivens without stat locking we would be literally swimming in them with stat locking.

 

i think your looking at this from the wrong angle, yess we'd have more, but they'd be cheaper, which means more people would buy them, which means the economy of the game would be even better.

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Just now, Reaver_X said:

 

i think your looking at this from the wrong angle, yess we'd have more, but they'd be cheaper, which means more people would buy them, which means the economy of the game would be even better.

But then everyone has (or could get) them thus the game needs to then be balanced around them. Meaning that, again, eventually every player will hit a wall where they're forced to earn/buy Rivens for their weapons in order to progress.

Between forcing a system upon people that has already put off a lot of players and leaving it as a set of problems that can be 100% ignored it isn't hard to see the lesser of the two evils.

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1 minute ago, trst said:

But then everyone has (or could get) them thus the game needs to then be balanced around them. Meaning that, again, eventually every player will hit a wall where they're forced to earn/buy Rivens for their weapons in order to progress.

Between forcing a system upon people that has already put off a lot of players and leaving it as a set of problems that can be 100% ignored it isn't hard to see the lesser of the two evils.

Having rivens as the optimal option wouldnt mean that they're required, Your not required to have the perfect team to hunt eidolons, but you can still get about 2 full runs which is plenty.

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1 minute ago, Reaver_X said:

Having rivens as the optimal option wouldnt mean that they're required, Your not required to have the perfect team to hunt eidolons, but you can still get about 2 full runs which is plenty.

Eidolons aren't balanced around rivens, the step to having a game mode balanced around rivens would be the same step as a new player has when they realized leveling up mods exist. You'd hit a wall, that you can't really progress by without rivens, just like new players get when they hit saturn or jupiter.

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