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What if [spoiler] is really [spoiler]? (Stalker)


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Just conjecturing about the dangling bits of lore entries here, and trying to hypothesize what they really mean. 

There are also a bunch of lore fragments and Ordis Transmissions, which as they are collected, eventually we come to understand a part of Ordis past. 
Ordis was a human mercenary in the Old War, named Ordan Karris. He was a genocide and destroyer which lived for the thrill of war. 
Eventually things changed, and he started to have nightmares of his misdeeds and the suffering he caused, to the point of having suicidal thoughts.
Ordan hatched a plan to try to compensate his blood debt, and was ruthless in following the Orokin's deeds, to the point of being recognized by them as one that could rise and actually become Orokin - achieve immortality.
At that moment, Orokin united, he unleashed his vengeance and killed them. But being immortal, they came back and applauded him. 
Ballas punished him with immortality all the same, but turned him into a subservient robot - a cephalon - removing part of his memories and personality in the process to make him more obedient, a servant, a controller, built to love and protect the Operator - and with a little bit of a hijack, for the Orokin to spy on the Operator through him. 

In the Stalker Codex, it is said that he was a low Guardian, and watched the Tenno slay the Orokin. He felt betrayed and started hunting the Tenno.

In the Second Dream, the Stalker finds the reservoir, and finds out the true nature of the Tenno, and his own as well. His resolution to kill the Tenno falters for a moment, and he is defeated. The Hunhow says he still hates the Tenno, and still hates himself.

Come forward to the apostasy prologue, we get confirmation that the Warframe are indeed deformed bodies consumed by the Helminth virus, but not completely. We also get to know that Warframes can retain memories and a mind and will of their own. This ties up neatly with the unexplained act of the Warframe acting on its own to break the War sword in the second dream.

Up to this point I was just retelling lore.

Now, the ultimate conjecture: What if the body of Ordan Karris was not destroyed, but turned into a warframe instead, which eventualy became the Stalker?
Ordan Karris's mind and memories could have been split into two, the higher functions and peaceful part becoming Cephalon Ordis. The violent part being buried and suppressed in a Warframe. Upon witnessing the betrayal of the Orokin - which Ordan tried and failed - that fragment of a mind in that warframe would have broken its chains and awakened. But being half-amnesiac and brainwashed into subservience, the unfiltered rage in his heart was redirected to the Tenno - unbeknownst to him that he also tried the same thing, before.

The Codex entry of Stalker, from the pov of this conjecture would be the moment of awakening of Stalker, from being a puppet to self-awareness. It is never explained what the low Guardians really are, and they could very well be cephalons like Ordis. The acolytes taunts fit this theory too. Instead of criticising the Tenno for following the Lotus - a false leader - they could be talking to the warframes, dissing them for being subservient puppets of the Tenno instead of acting on their own.
It would be up to an upcoming quest to find the Stalker, restore some sanity to him - at least partially - and reconnecting the two parts of Ordan - Ordis and Stalker - not necessarily losing either, as each part evolved into its own being. We could then arrange a truce or even allegiance with the Stalker. 

That would be a neat plot twist that would serve a few purposes for the game's development: 
Possibly make a new player main faction, opposed to the "Lotus" which inly a simulation by now. This can give a lore tie-in to justify "Stalker mode" in the game.
Possibility to uncover more lore about Ordis and the Old War via Stalker's memories. 
Possibility of either waking up Stalker as another Umbra frame, or better yet, to farm materials by killing players to create an "Umbral Reactor" to install in a Warframe and Umbra-ify it.
Or some other type of reward from Stalker mode.

Edited by BrazilianJoe
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I think you're probably onto something there. Especially with the described bullet jumping in Ordis's memories and all that, as well as Kuva serving to separate the mind and body, it's totally plausible that Ordan's mind was either pushed out or copied whilst his body served as a subject for Ballas's helminth. I like this theory. I wonder if what we'll see upcoming will allude to it further. 

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Interresting, indeed. 

Ballas said in the Vitruvian that they turned their best warriors into Warframes, willing or not. Ordan was one of the greatest weapons the Orokin had, so losing him would have been a great loss. Maybe he was supposed to be turned into one from the start, but since he attacked the Orokins, Ballas decided to make him suffer in return by turning him into Ordis. 

Another point that you could mention is that the Stalker's lore specifies that he wasn't able to say anything on that day even tho he knew what was going to happen, the same way Umbra couldn't say anything to Isaah because of the Helminth, transforming his body and ravaging his vocal chords. The Stalker's silence on that day might have been caused by the same kind of mutation. 

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Your theory has some intriguing points. ORDan KerrIS could have been split in two according to the duality concept Ballas mentioned. Reduced to its base mind and body he was punished with becoming an eternal servant and spy as ordis and a brutal warrior as stalker. I'm not sure about the half memories of the stalker though. It's more likely that a Tenno decided to stay loyal to the Orokin and recruited the few like minded (acolytes) that didn't went full mental jacket on their masters. I guess the upcoming quest for ordis will shed some light.

Nice theory though

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  • 2 weeks later...

I released a topic a year ago on what if Stalker was an Orokin Operator. like a Tenno mistakenly loyal to the Orokin while in the Dream.

there were plenty of different ideas on what the Stalker could be or should be for good story telling but none of us considered this! This is deftintely a good one!


i still low key want the Stalker to be a small Asian girl with red/orange hair though. Can’t lie.

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Welcome to the Ordis is Stalker head canon club.

It is possible as well as it makes some type of sense that Ordis and the Stalker are one and the same. As we have seen, Ordis gets our inbox messages and somehow the Stalker has us in his contacts....yet Ordis has no idea about the Stalker even though Stalker somehow made it on our ship. Ordis has a blind eye to Stalker yet can mimic Lotus, talk to other Cephs, and can give us a back story to who he was by leaving fragments on the planets. 

There are other things I got....but saving them til someone else sees the same thing

Play on.,...

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